2003-2004 Top Senior Dance Teams

[quark]

Based upon a suggestion of What?meworry? I decided to start this thread. Absolutely no facts are known by me, and the teams listed are just guesses. I've also put them in the order I expect them to finish at 2004 Nationals.

Tanith Belbin and Benjamin Agosto
Naomi Lang and Peter Tchernyshev
Melissa Gregory and Denis Petukov
Kimberly Navarro and Robert Shmalo
Loren Galler-Rabinowitz and David Mitchell
Emilie Nussear and Brandon Forsyth
Morgan Matthews and Maxim Zavozin - Could stay Junior
Christie Moxley and Aleksandre Kirsanov
Kendra Goodwin and Ryan O'Meara
Hilary Gibbons and Justin Pekarek
Kirsten Frisch and Brent Bommentre - Could stay Junior
Cheryl Russel and Kenny Metzger - If they are still a team

Wild Cards

Lydia Manon and ?
Melissa Ralph and ? Could stay Junior
? and Nicholas Hart
Christina Zepeda and ?

8-)

[butterfly]

Can't say that I disagree but I am puzzled by the Goodwin/Omeara listing...are they an official team? Also, I had such hope for Russell/Metzger this year maybe next year will be better.

[Artemis]

Um ... so that would be top U.S. dance teams? ...

[quark]

Originally posted by Artemis
Um ... so that would be top U.S. dance teams? ... :oops:

[Gwasshi4life]

Did Lydia and Vitali split?

[ToeJam]

Uhhh... what's up with the Goodwin-O'Meara pairing?? I don't think Kendra's heard about that yet. :roll:

People, rumors are just that... RUMORS... don't believe everything you read or hear.

[what?meworry?]

ya, i'm scratching my head about this one, too.

someone did post that chris was leaving skating to do his mormon service. but "platinumangel" just posted they're still training---if chris has been able to postpone his service that would be great!

and this business about kendra and o'meara??? i can't imagine that and i'd hope it wouldn't be true if chris did leave skating.

trillian, you reported something about it not taking long to announce a partner if chris left, and that you thought it wasn't the best match (?). can you shed any more light on this?

[Trillian]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
trillian, you reported something about it not taking long to announce a partner if chris left, and that you thought it wasn't the best match (?).

I said that I'd heard there might be something in the works with another skater and that I wasn't sure what kind of match they'd be. I never said I knew for sure that something had been worked out, OR that the skater in question was O'Meara--which leads me to think that someone else heard that rumor (it's been going around) and assumed that was who I meant. As far as what's actually going to happen...I guess we'll see when it happens. I've heard various possibilities.

[what?meworry?]

i missed that rumor completely.

the poster "PlatinumAngel" posted elsewhere that kendra and chris were seen training at the rink, like now. perhaps since platinum is there, the truth can be learned directly from the parties involved, kendra and chris!

now that i think about it, a rumor like this started last year---that kendra called around about partners. i wonder is she does this just in cast chris leaves for his service to see who's available or might be made available?

[quark]

Originally posted by ToeJam
People, rumors are just that... RUMORS... don't believe everything you read or hear. Put a checkmark by Emilie Nussear and Brandon Forsyth in my list. No big surprise, but now a done deal. If Navarro and Shmalo decide to hang up their skates, Igor should have two of the top five US teams in 2003-2004. The dance team kaleidoscope is in motion and it's showing us new sets of patterns and colors! This gets more interesting every day. 8-)

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by quark
...Absolutely no facts are known by me, and the teams listed are just guesses. I've also put them in the order I expect them to finish at 2004 Nationals.

Tanith Belbin and Benjamin Agosto
Naomi Lang and Peter Tchernyshev
Melissa Gregory and Denis Petukov
Kimberly Navarro and Robert Shmalo
Loren Galler-Rabinowitz and David Mitchell
Emilie Nussear and Brandon Forsyth
Morgan Matthews and Maxim Zavozin - Could stay Junior
Christie Moxley and Aleksandre Kirsanov
Kendra Goodwin and Ryan O'Meara
Hilary Gibbons and Justin Pekarek
Kirsten Frisch and Brent Bommentre - Could stay Junior
Cheryl Russel and Kenny Metzger - If they are still a team

8-)

another poster has suggested ("on good authority") that m&m do intend to go senior. i suspect f/b are likely to also. next season is their last year of jr int'l eligibility (she turns 19 this august), they've been junior three years, and silver medalists. so why stay junior?

i heard around nat'ls that r/m had split.

[quark]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
i missed that rumor completely.

now that i think about it, a rumor like this started last year---that kendra called around about partners. i wonder is she does this just in cast chris leaves for his service to see who's available or might be made available? Chris is one of the nicest skaters in the business. I suspect he told Kendra about his religous plans and it wouldn't surprise me if he encouraged Kendra to look around. That's the kind of man he is. He's an excellent role model for an ice dancer and a person. It's been said before, and I'll say it again, he can represent me anywhere, anytime, as an ice dancer, or as an American.

As for a possible team of Goodwin and O'Meara, I simply believe that teams are formed among skaters who know and compete against each other. Ralph and Omeara competed against Goodwin and Obzansky at Nationals and in Vienna. So, they know each other. In fact, Ralph and OMeara edged them out twice, based on their wonderful FD. What other partners might be available for Goodwin? Look at how long Lydia Manon has been bounding around looking for a match. OMeara is too short for Lydia Manon, and may be too short for Goodwin. Matt Gates is also too short for both these girls. As usual that doesn't leave the girls with many options. I simply used a process of elimination. Any other possibilities for Kendra that you can think of??

[Trillian]

Originally posted by quark
As for a possible team of Goodwin and O'Meara, I simply believe that teams are formed among skaters who know and compete against each other. Ralph and Omeara competed against Goodwin and Obzansky at Nationals and in Vienna. So, they know each other.

And from what I've heard, Goodwin and O'Meara happen to be friends--not that that means anything, of course, but it's something to consider.

I would have to concur that if Chris knew well in advance that his skating career might be over (or put on hold, whatever the plan would be) this year, he would probably have given Kendra plenty of advance notice so she could start looking. I'd imagine she's been in contact with multiple people already, just in case.

[Aaron W]

On the subject of a possible Goodwin & O'Meara pairing, I'm wondering how well they'd match up size wise? I checked out his bio from the 2002 Nationals and he's listed as being 5'7" while Kendra's bio from this season has her at 5'3". That seems to be cutting it a bit close. Although it's possible that Ryan has grown some since last season or that he may grow some in the next couple of years (he just turned 19 earlier this month, so he still has some time to grow).

My guess is that a 4 inch difference is probably enough for a dance team, but anything less than that would probably not look quite right (hence it's a good thing Kendra is 20 and probably finished growing).

[what?meworry?]

i disagree about the height differential.

frisch/bommentre are the same height in skates. they just won the silver in junior dance and are going to junior worlds. and, they'll probably move up to senior.

tanith has grown quite tall (5' 7 or 8") and ben is 5' 10 or 11"

[PlatniumAngel]

What teams do you think will make it to the 2006 Olpympics? Also, is Tanith able to compete since she is Canadian?

[SkateGuard]

Originally posted by PlatniumAngel
Also, is Tanith able to compete since she is Canadian?

Not without an act of Congress. Tanith received her green card last summer, so the earliest she can apply for citizenship is 2007. (Unless, of course, she gets married to an American, but I think Fedor might have something to say about that ;) ) Add in the fact of Canada's rather lenient immigration laws, which has the White House freaking out over potential terrorists getting Canadian citizenship to get to the US. I really don't see Tanith getting special treatment if the government doesn't feel safe giving citizenship to other Canadian citizens.

I think Ben said during Nationals that Sept. 11 did slow down the process a bit.

However, if Tanith and Ben can put themselves on a World podium by 2005 (unlikely but possible), all bets are off.

Erin

[quark]

Originally posted by PlatniumAngel
What teams do you think will make it to the 2006 Olpympics? Also, is Tanith able to compete since she is Canadian? Tanith Belbin is not presently a citizen. She would need an act of Congress (literally) to become a citizen by 2006. I don't know when Denis Petukhov got his green card, but if it was when he married Melissa Gregory in February, 2001, he too, would need an act of Congress. That leaves only Lang and Tchernyshev from the top three at Nationals this year who's eligible. That's why Emilie and Brandon are shooting for an Olympic ring. Assuming that Lang and Tchernyshev stay in the fray, and that's not for sure, there's a spot open. Right now it looks like Galler-Rabinowitz and Mitchell or Nussear and Forsyth are most likely to fill that spot.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by quark
...Denis Petukhov got his green card, but if it was when he married Melissa Gregory in February, 2001, he too, would need an act of Congress.

i've been told that being married to a usa citizen speeds up the process of attaining citizenship, so pet. could make it in time for the olympics.

but i haven't looked it up. if anyone out there has the facts, please post.

[what?meworry?]

josef! i forgot about josef!

you run g/p's official website. you must know the answer to this. please let us know if there if confidense in pet. becoming a usa citizen in time for the olympics.

[Gwasshi4life]

yet again i ask............ did lydia and vitali split and why?

[leepn]

I am not Josef but might be able to shed some light on the Gregory/Petukhov citizenship issue. Citizenship through marriage cuts the time in half. He will be eligible. So add them to the mix.

[quark]

Originally posted by leepn
I am not Josef but might be able to shed some light on the Gregory/Petukhov citizenship issue. Citizenship through marriage cuts the time in half. He will be eligible. So add them to the mix. I looked it up. Residency requirements from Green Card (Permanent Residency) to applying for citizenship is 5 years, or 3 years if married to a citizen. You can file 90 days early from completion of this requirement. For Petukov, he can "apply" for citizenship in November, 2003 since he got his green card at the time of his marriage in February, 2001. Then it's a question of how long it takes the INS to do its job. That averaged about a year in 2000, but has been higher (2 years). I couldn't find any estimate based on today's political climate. Thats probably the big unknown. His chances are probably pretty good. Since Belbin didn't get her green card until August, 2002, it would take an act of Congress to make her eligible for 2006 Olympics.

[Mazurka Girl]

Originally posted by quark
Since Belbin didn't get her green card until August, 2002, it would take an act of Congress to make her eligible for 2006 Olympics.
I wonder if she decides to pursue the act of Congress method, whether her fellow DSC skaters Punsalen/Swallow will write letters against it like they did in the 90s. I thought the coach didn't approve of that method of gaining citizenship. Or maybe they've all had a change of heart & it's all good now. :?:

[vesperholly]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
another poster has suggested ("on good authority") that m&m do intend to go senior.

If you are going to insist on initials, could you please refer to skaters by their last names? It took me a while to realize that M&M meant Morgan and Maxim - they should be M&Z. You referred to Frisch/Bommentre as F&B, please follow your own logic. Thanks!

Jocelyn

[quark]

REDO of Senior Dance at 2004 US Nationals, based on latest rumours and IIIIGORRRR.

Tanith Belbin and Benjamin Agosto
Naomi Lang and Peter Tchernyshev
Emilie Nussear and Brandon Forsyth
Melissa Gregory and Denis Petukov
Loren Galler-Rabinowitz and David Mitchell

Morgan Matthews and Maxim Zavozin
Kendra Goodwin and Ryan O'Meara
Christie Moxley and Aleksandre Kirsanov
Hilary Gibbons and Justin Pekarek
Kirsten Frisch and Brent Bommentre

8-)

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by quark
REDO of Senior Dance at 2004 US Nationals, based on latest rumours and IIIIGORRRR.

Tanith Belbin and Benjamin Agosto
Naomi Lang and Peter Tchernyshev
Emilie Nussear and Brandon Forsyth
Melissa Gregory and Denis Petukov
Loren Galler-Rabinowitz and David Mitchell

Morgan Matthews and Maxim Zavozin
Kendra Goodwin and Ryan O'Meara
Christie Moxley and Aleksandre Kirsanov
Hilary Gibbons and Justin Pekarek
Kirsten Frisch and Brent Bommentre

8-)

so! interesting list. i still think the group of four will be a tighter race for silver (unless l/t really get working and soon)

but i'd put the next group, since there's a lot of training time between now and then:

m/k
n/s (if they stay and improve their cd's)
plus m/z or g/o'm (either order)
maybe add f/b to a four-way for 7th
gib/p (are they moving with liz coates?)
m/s (if still a team)

since you (and where's gary c.?) seem poised to again declair that every other dancer who doesn't work with igor should just stay home and let the judges mail them the leftover rankings by lottery, i also ask: will we see the next junior champions be wingle/warren? ;)

[legjumper]

Originally posted by Aaron W

My guess is that a 4 inch difference is probably enough for a dance team, but anything less than that would probably not look quite right (hence it's a good thing Kendra is 20 and probably finished growing). I've said it before, but it's really all about the proportions of the skaters relative to each other rather than the actual difference in height. Drobiazko & Vanagas were only about 3" apart in height, and nobody was complaining that Rita was too big (or Povilas too small). Similarly, Dubreuil & Lauzon are what, 10" apart in height? On paper it looks like pair team heights, but again, nobody is complaining about their look together as a dance team.

[quark]

Originally posted by legjumper
I've said it before, but it's really all about the proportions of the skaters relative to each other rather than the actual difference in height. You're so right! That's Andrew's biggest problem. I believe he has a long waist and short legs. That's awfully hard to match, except with a very small girl. I do wish him luck. He really wants to ice dance. There oughta be someone out there for him. I'm sure Ponomarenko will keep looking.

[quark]

Originally posted by what?meworry?

m/k
n/s (if they stay and improve their cd's)
plus m/z or g/o'm (either order)
maybe add f/b to a four-way for 7th
gib/p (are they moving with liz coates?)
m/s (if still a team)

i also ask: will we see the next junior champions be wingle/warren? ;) I can accept that ordering. We might as well call off 2004 Nationals....we already know the results. :D

Wingle/Warren
No way! Not as long as Zuoeva is teaching compulsories.

IS COATES MOVING?!? If so, where?

[what?meworry?]

this is one of those wierd rumors i'm not all that confident in, but i heard it from several people who don't know one another.

the theory was to the nyc/connecticut area.

that compulsories/technique thing is why i question that igor should be coronated king again.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by quark
I can accept that ordering. We might as well call off 2004 Nationals....we already know the results. :D


but i wouldn't want to miss the excitement of seeing all those ties sort themselves out!:lol:

[Gary Cochran]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
since you (and where's gary c.?) seem poised to again declair that every other dancer who doesn't work with igor should just stay home and let the judges mail them the leftover rankings by lottery, i also ask: will we see the next junior champions be wingle/warren? ;) I do agree with you and quark that the DSC is not the center it was when Liz was there. It will be interesting to see how Igor handles multiple teams. The DSC program has gone downhill from 1998, when Igor had the top five Senior teams at Nationals, 'til now. That included some of the time Liz was still there. Maybe this is the bottom of a cycle, and the DSC is on the way up again. We'll know more by the time Nationals rolls 'round again. Without Liz, I'm not nearly as optimistic for the future of young teams at the DSC who still have to learn fundamentals of compulsory dances. Maybe Igor should concentrate on older, more established teams. But, Igor does whatever he wants, and he has always loved coaching Junior teams.

There are other ice dance centers in the US now. For Russian style, Klimova and Ponomarenko are building a center for younger ice dancers in San Jose, CA. But they need Junior international winners to continue to build their reputation as coaches. Of course, we have Marazov in Newington, CT. and Tarasova at Simsbury, CT. But, they seem to concentrate on high-level Senior skaters, not Junior, or below.

We also have the older centers from Delaware to California, but they seem to be known for their ice dance teams, rather than their coaches. Hard to build a complete program this way. If the Senior team retires, and no one knows where they trained, the coaches have to start over again.

As an unattached ice dancer at the DSC, Melissa (Ralph) doesn't get lessons from Igor. Once he's trained someone to skate like he wants, there's nothing he can do until they are in a partnership. So, my DSC information is not very current. I prefer to lurk instead of stir the pot.:D .

Melissa is finishing high school, and expects to attend University this fall. But, she still wishes to skate competitively, and is looking for a partner. She's submitting her name to the Dance and Pairs partner search get-together of the USFSA.

Last point. I doubt that Winger/Warren will move up to Junior, but I just don't know.

-Gary

[Aaron W]

Originally posted by Gary Cochran
Melissa is finishing high school, and expects to attend University this fall. But, she still wishes to skate competitively, and is looking for a partner. She's submitting her name to the Dance and Pairs partner search get-together of the USFSA.

-Gary

That's great to hear Melissa is nearly finished with high school and planning on attending a University next year! I certainly wish her the best of luck in finding another partner. I definitely enjoyed her last season and think she has a great smile - it's infectious while she's performing. :)

As for Wingle & Warren moving up to juniors next year, I guess I wouldn't be surprised if they did *and* if they placed well. I saw them perform their free dance at the DSC last month and really was impressed with how much they had going on. Lots of difficulty and it was a clever program.

[JS]

Originally posted by Gary Cochran
I do agree with you and quark that the DSC is not the center it was when Liz was there. It will be interesting to see how Igor handles multiple teams.

-Gary

But WHY has Liz left DSC in the first place? If Igor and Liz had such a successful partnership then WHY did they split up?

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by Gary Cochran
... Maybe Igor should concentrate on older, more established teams. But, Igor does whatever he wants, and he has always loved coaching Junior teams.

There are other ice dance centers in the US now...

i almost posted the same thing regarding igor. girls going there as adults/senior level are pretty well formed emotionally. i think it tougher for young teen and emerging young ladies to handle.

about centers: looking at the freestyle men and ladies, they're pretty much spread out over the country with lots of different coaches, most (with a few exceptions) not that well known until their skater made it big. (weiss, hughs, gardener, galindo, kwan (?), and i'm sure many of you know others).
it's a mistake to assume a dance team can't succeed unless with THE one top coach (or assume that other coaches can't adapt and learn). dance does appear to be spreading out now with broader success across the country. i think that's good. it's making a more successful range of novices, juniors and seniors. this is not to say eventually some teams may need to move to a different coach eventually (or maybe not), but it certainly allows for a broader and deeper talent pool.

[Anjelica]

Why did igor and Liz split up if they had such a great working relationship? Because at the end they did NOT have a great working relationship, they fought all of the time; and Liz couldn't stand Igor's shenanigans especially where Jamie Silverstein was concerned.

[Gwasshi4life]

Everyone is acting as if Ryan and Kendra are a team. He is still trying out with girls, including her.

[what?meworry?]

glad to hear that. i'm not enthusiastic about how they'd look. but i have very mixed feelings. since kendra is a terrific skater and g/o a terrific team (i'm still hoping chris might delay his service) and there aren't enough guys to go around in the dance world.

bye the way, emily came out of fs/pairs. wouldn't it be nice to see some of out junior/senior fs/pairs guys train dance?

[Howie]

Was on Denis and Melissa web and saw that it is thier 2nd year anniversary! Congrats!! And many more!

[leepn]

Melissa and Denis.
Happy Anniversary and good luck in China! Sk8gr8!

[eka]

Dear Melissa and Dennis!

Having watched your lives ever since the first day Denis stepped his foot on American soil, we are absolutely amazed at how very perfect the two of you are for one another both on and off the ice. Happy Anniversary!

Love,
Sophia, Lexo and Eka.

[what?meworry?]

yes. happy anniversary to them. and thank you sandy hess for pushing them into matrimony seeing their love for one another and the opportunity for the olympics in 2006!

[eka]

"Always speak the truth--think before you
speak--and write it down afterwards"- Lewis Carroll

[what?meworry?]

yes, a very good philosophy!

[quark]

IMO, there are four teams that have the greatest potential to win bronze at Nationals next January, displacing Gregory and Petukhov:

Nussear and Forsyth
Galler-Rabinowitz and Mitchell
Matthews and Zavozin
Moxley and Kirsanov

Matthews and Zavozin seem the least likely, but remember how teams from the DSC jumped to silver from the National Junior Championship.

Assuming that outside pressures (money) don't create training distractions, Nussear and Forsyth have an excellent chance of placing third. They're experienced and they'll have Shpilband training, choreography, and music selection. That's been an historical advantage; other centers have not yet broken the stranglehold Igor has on placing teams at the highest level in American dance...at least not yet!

Gregory and Petukhov should hold on to 4th. But, they're at great risk from up and coming teams. They have to increase their difficulty from this year.

The value of style differences between Galler-Rabinowitz/Mitchell and Matthews/Zavozin will have to be resolved by National judging. If G-R/M do well at Junior Worlds and at their international assignments this fall, they'll have the advantage. OTOH, if M/Z do better internationally, they'll move past G-R/M.

I don't know much about Moxley and Kirsanov, so I don't know how to place them in this mix. If they're your basic Russian style team they're in competition primarily with M/Z against G-R/M.

Looks like senior dance at Lake Placid this year is going to be a real skatefest (slugfest?)!
:D

[Josef]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
yes, a very good philosophy!

If you thought it was such a good philosophy you would follow it yourself instead of posting nasty, untrue comments in order to stir up the pot.

Happy two year anniversary to Melissa and Denis, a couple who share a love for each other as well as their sport, and no one can take that away from them.

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by Josef

If you thought it was such a good philosophy you would follow it yourself instead of posting nasty, untrue comments in order to stir up the pot.

This was an attack on another poster. Please do not ever do this again. If you have problems with something someone has posted, report it to the moderators, or your account will end up being suspended instead.

[legjumper]

Originally posted by quark
IMO, there are four teams that have the greatest potential to win bronze at Nationals next January, displacing Gregory and Petukhov:

Nussear and Forsyth
Galler-Rabinowitz and Mitchell
Matthews and Zavozin
Moxley and Kirsanov

Matthews and Zavozin seem the least likely, but remember how teams from the DSC jumped to silver from the National Junior Championship.
Based on the marks that Matthews/Zavozin received for their free dance in Dallas, I don't think they're going to be ready to challenge for a medal in seniors in 2004. Furthermore, they're likely to get buried in compulsories by all of the other teams you listed, plus Belbin & Agosto and Lang & Tchernyshev, unless they do some serious work on their CDs in the next 12 months.

Nussear & Forsyth, to me, are somewhat of an unknown quantity at this point. They did have a lot of success as juniors, but that doesn't always translate into comparable senior success. In addition, they've spent the last three years apart--that's a LONG TIME in the world of ice dancing. Presumably we'll have a better chance of knowing where this team might stand in Atlanta after Lake Placid in August.

Moxley & Kirsanov will need to add a lot more difficult in footwork, holds, lifts, and transitions if they want to challenge for a medal.

I think the team that has the most chance of knocking off Gregory & Petukhov is Galler-Rabinowitz & Mitchell. They have excellent basic skating, and based on the judging in Dallas, the judges aren't afraid to promote them quickly.

[butterfly]

I think all the talent was in the 1st and 2nd place this year at nationals, after that mediocre or near mediocre comes to mind. I don't believe that L/T will be back so that leaves B/A and the rest is up for grabs.

M/Z are way too early into the game, G-R/M are way over inflated by the judges, N/F are big ifs. G/P because of their experience may be able to stay in the top 2. I believe we have only one world hopeful if you take L/T out of the mix and that is B/A and I worry about them staying the course. Tanith probably is reaching the point of enough is enough with Igor.

[Wind]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by legjumper
[B]Based on the marks that Matthews/Zavozin received for their free dance in Dallas, I don't think they're going to be ready to challenge for a medal in seniors in 2004. Furthermore, they're likely to get buried in compulsories by all of the other teams you listed, plus Belbin & Agosto and Lang & Tchernyshev, unless they do some serious work on their CDs in the next 12 months.

From what I have observed of Mattews/Zavozin they have a great future. It’s interesting to hear opinions regarding this team. They don’t seem to get much respect for their accomplishments. It’s interesting how by the end of every competition their skating speaks for them and they can’t be denied by the judges. I love it. They are young, a great match, talented and have a great training regime. Maybe it’s just that others are hearing footsteps and might be a little nervous. I think these two just might shake things up a bit and will be a team to watch.

[Trillian]

Originally posted by Wind
From what I have observed of Mattews/Zavozin they have a great future. It’s interesting to hear opinions regarding this team. They don’t seem to get much respect for their accomplishments. It’s interesting how by the end of every competition their skating speaks for them and they can’t be denied by the judges.

Their OD and FD placements have been fantastic, no question. But this team still shows an enormous problem with the compulsory dances. If they couldn't manage to finish above fourth in either dance in the junior event at nationals, they have some major work to do before they can hope for CD placements that will allow them to be medal contenders in the senior event. I don't doubt that their OD and FD next year could very well be good enough to challenge for a top five position, but they aren't going to get to the podium without gigantic CD improvements--especially with the added complication that they'll have to learn the senior dances for next year. I wouldn't deny this couple's potential by any means; I've been following Morgan since she skated novice pairs and I hope to see big things from them. But give them time.

[Angel01673]

Originally posted by butterfly
I think all the talent was in the 1st and 2nd place this year at nationals, after that mediocre or near mediocre comes to mind. I don't believe that L/T will be back so that leaves B/A and the rest is up for grabs.

M/Z are way too early into the game, G-R/M are way over inflated by the judges, N/F are big ifs. G/P because of their experience may be able to stay in the top 2. I believe we have only one world hopeful if you take L/T out of the mix and that is B/A and I worry about them staying the course. Tanith probably is reaching the point of enough is enough with Igor.

Why don't you think L/T will be back next season? As long as Naomi recovers from her injury in time, I expect they will come back better than ever.

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
this is one of those wierd rumors i'm not all that confident in, but i heard it from several people who don't know one another.

the theory was to the nyc/connecticut area.


fyi---another poster on a different thread reported a move to hackensack, nj.

(this is wierd, quoting myself)

[what?meworry?]

i think b/a and l/t clearly show maturity. actually, i think the maturity and showmanship saved l/t in a physically challenged situation.

but i disagree that the others represent a "mediocre" performance. greg/pet. were strong in their "performance" standard. i agree that their technical difficulty needs a kick.

g-r/m are exquisite technically, but still lack (probably due to lack of maturity) the "bigger than life" showmanship of b/a and l/t. keep in mind that individuals mature at differing rates, not strictly by age.

with regards to the comment of l/t not returning next year---naomi's injury on top of peter's injury last year creates a questionable scenario. if they can't stay healthy, they lose too much training time. they can draw on their past training only so long before the deterioration of theri skating catches up with them.

a cyst on the ankle or tendon is a serious problem for naomi. this isn't easily healed.

my thoughts is that given the injury factor, and the style and costuming of their programs at nationals, that they are considering leaving competitive skating for professional touring. they certainly have the "crowd apeal" to succeed in that arena.

[Angel01673]

Yeah, you do bring up some good points about the injury factors. But I don't think they would go through another coaching change, to not stay competitve, unless Naomi's situation may have changed their minds.

[what?meworry?]

good point, have they moved to another coach since nationals?

i thought they just stayed with morosov after the split from tarasova. (the nat'ls score book had zulin listed but i seem to remember l/t leaving for tarasova after last year.

[quark]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
g-r/m are exquisite technically, but still lack (probably due to lack of maturity) the "bigger than life" showmanship of b/a and l/t. keep in mind that individuals mature at differing rates, not strictly by age.
I'm probably going to get into trouble, but I've always had a problem seeing the choreography value of this team. I've kept them higher in the National rankings than I believe they have demonstrated in international competition, only because we don't have anyone else with more demonstrated talent below them. I do think they have a beautiful flow to their skating, but NO complexity. For example, their programs over the last three years have not shown any special improvement in their skills. They always do a waltz and just glide around. Where am I wrong?

Take twizzles. I'm told that partners often have a natural rotational direction to twizzle, like a right handed hitter. One of the team must learn to twizzle in their unnatural direction in order for the team to twizzle together, with the same rotational direction. G-R/M ALWAYS do their straight line footwork twizzles in mirror images. My hunch is that they are only doing what's natural, not hard. It appears interesting to an observer, but it's much simpler than one partner learning to twizzle in a direction that's not natural.

This is not a knock against them personally. I just don't think they've ever been pushed by their coaches to expand their horizons, and really make use of the talent they have. Until they do, they run a big risk of losing to a team who suddenly shows up with the same skills, but much better choreography, at least in the international arena. I have no idea why the USA judges seem to value their skating much more than I do, but I can barely remember how to spell choreography, let alone judge this sport. I can only say that I know what I like when I see it, and I just don't see it with Galler-Rabinowitz and Mitchell.

OK, fire away.

[Ellyn]

Take twizzles. I'm told that partners often have a natural rotational direction to twizzle, like a right handed hitter. One of the team must learn to twizzle in their unnatural direction in order for the team to twizzle together, with the same rotational direction.

More often the two partners will have the same natural direction, so those who have opposite preferences will be at a disadvantage compared to the majority of teams all the time. If you think one opposite-direction team should go out of their way to do same-direction twizzles just because it's harder (for one of them), then why not insist that all teams pair up with opposite-direction partners just because it's taking the easy way out to find a partner who rotates the same direction? Why should they make things harder for themselves when most teams have it easier to begin with?

G-R/M ALWAYS do their straight line footwork twizzles in mirror images. My hunch is that they are only doing what's natural, not hard. It appears interesting to an observer, but it's much simpler than one partner learning to twizzle in a direction that's not natural.

Easier, not simpler. It's more complicated to choreograph the mirror sequences with crossing paths.

But the easiest of all for that particular issue would be to find a partner who rotates the same direction. However, there are plenty of other issues to take into account when choosing dance partners and often a limited supply of possible partners. And opposite rotational preferences could actually be an advantage in something like sequences in close holds terms of balancing the number of turns in each direction if at least one partner feels comfortable each way.

[what?meworry?]

if you spend some time where any dancers train, you'll see them practicing twizzles in both directions up and down the ice. this is needed in the compulsories as well as footwork of od/fd.

[Angel01673]

Originally posted by what?meworry?
good point, have they moved to another coach since nationals?

i thought they just stayed with morosov after the split from tarasova. (the nat'ls score book had zulin listed but i seem to remember l/t leaving for tarasova after last year.

No I just meant that they went from Shiplband, to Zhulin, then to Tarasova/Morosov, and now just Morosov. So I'm just saying that it would be a waste to go through all that to retire. IMO I think they are going to stick it out for at least another year to see what they can do with Morosov, because they haven't had much time to train this year, I really think we'll start to see more of his influence next year. That is unless like you said Naomi's injury could be a major problem for them.

[what?meworry?]

so what exactly is naomi's injury. i've heard several versions of it. is it a cyst?

[Leela]

Naomi has a cyst on her Achilles tendon. It will be surgically removed when the skating season has ended. Don't know anything about the recommended recuperation period.

[Gingi]

top seniors in the near future will be teams from boston, and outside the circle of russian reruns

[candace]

Does anyone know what Matt Gates is doing? Is he looking for a new partner? What about Lydia and her partner does anyone know what happened with them?

[Miss.Issippi]

Originally posted by Gingi
top seniors in the near future will be teams from boston, and outside the circle of russian reruns

Very interesting comment and I think you have a valid point. Is it your opinion then, that Melissa Gregory and her partner/husband will be by passed in the next few years by other teams?

[what?meworry?]

Originally posted by Miss.Issippi
Very interesting comment and I think you have a valid point. Is it your opinion then, that Melissa Gregory and her partner/husband will be by passed in the next few years by other teams?

if that happens it will be because of melissa's limitations as a skater, not because of either his or their coach (whose reputation, at least on the east coast, is significant (so why doesn't he have more teams?!

however, despite her assumed limitations, i think she is most determined (look how she has reformed her body!) to succeed and therefore, will. they also have the resources to focus on their training and can spent effectively unlimited time on development.

so, i think they will not be displaced beyond third, whatever the talent that is up-and-coming.

[leepn]

You all talked about Naomi a few years back and look where she is today. Everyone has "limitations". It is what you do with them that may or may not limit you. Sometimes the most talented never rise because their minds limit them. And some of us have so many agenda's it prohibits our abilities to learn and see the truths of what is in front of them. So good luck to all!

[what?meworry?]

you've really hit upon an important aspect of competition as well as academic, as well as business success. it isn't always the most talented person who succeds, but the individual who has the determidation to succeed, who does.

there are lots of "geniuses" who fail for lack of determination.
or, because they never are "perfect" enough to present their talent.

it truely is persistance (plus real talent) that makes a champion.

[xyzzy]

Mathew Gates has returned to coaching in Newington. He has an intermediate team that moved to CT from TX last year (Weaver & Clavey) that are moving up to Novice this year that he has high hopes for. He is also working with other competitive young dancers in the area.