How would you place these Men artistically?

[originalQA]

I do not mean Presentation, I mean Artistically.

Browning
Boitano
Wylie
Elvis
Eldredge
Orser
Yags
Plushy
Kulik
Galindo
Candeloro
Petrenko

I was curious really about how Brian B. would place amongst these guys, in your opinions.
It was debatable whether Boitano was artistic or if he just had appropriate Presentation for his programs.
I would have Kurt, Yags then I am lost.....

[CzarinaAnnie]

Yagudin
Candeloro
Wylie
Petrenko
Eldredge
Browning
Plushenko
Kulik
Boitano
Stojko
Orser
Galindo

I did my best 8O That was a little hard

[lBrokenAnkle]

Elvis
Paul
Rudy
Kurt
Brian Boitano
Yags
Phillippe
Evgeny
Brian Orser
Victor
Ilia
Eldredge

This was hard, and if asked on another day I might have different order

Laura

[Sing_Alto]

[quote:8f75022aad="originalQA"]I do not mean Presentation, I mean Artistically.

I was curious really about how Brian B. would place amongst these guys, in your opinions. It was debatable whether Boitano was artistic or if he just had appropriate Presentation for his programs.[/quote:8f75022aad]

If Boitano is "debatable" by your assessment, then Stojko is definitely debatable too. Artistry is in the eye of the beholder. I think Boitano is a magnificent artist because he doesn't add a lot of meaningless arm movements. Kurt Browning himself said that Boitano was the "King of minimalistic skating." :roll: On the other hand, some of the guys on your list, to me, overdo things with their so-called artistry. To me, less is more. Vive la difference!

[calypso56]

Interesting topic! Made me think a bit!
Here is my list for the moment with some comments.

Browning....the most complete skater. Sadly, losing his jumps.
Orser....pure genius. Courageous, too.
Kulik....still maturing and developing his style.
Galindo...man of many emotions.
Yags...lots of presentation, too.
Boitano...haven't really seen him skate in years.
Wylie....only saw him a few times years ago.
Plushy....mostly presentation of other's ideas.
Elvis....his own man, but not really artistic.
Eldredge....too stiff but technically sound.
Petrenko...never could watch him pretend to be cool.
Candeloro...an embarassment to watch.

Toller Cranston, no longer skating, but every one of these skaters owes him a huge vote of thanks.

Emanuel Sandhu. Where are you?

[Dustin]

Yagudin
Eldredge
Plushy
Wylie
Browning
Boitano
Orser
Elvis
Kulik
Petrenko
Galindo
Candeloro

[proam]

Most artistic to the least artistic:
Browning most gifted

Kulik is not quite in the class of Kurt yet, but getting there

Orser has a quiet artistry

Plushy has the talent for artistry, will come in time

Wylie was artistic to a point

Yags too much theatrics, so hard to tell

Boitano does the best with what he has

Eldredge same as Boitano

Galindo’s skating isn’t really that artistic

Petrenko was artistic once upon a time, not now

Elvis hasn’t a clue

Candeloro not worth a comment

[ernibear140]

This is tough as "artistry" (different from presentation) is in the eye of the beholder, but I will put it down in terms of whose artistry I enjoy the best...because I think all of these skaters are artistic in their own regard. Some more successful than others, but I will give you my opinion...

Orser
Yags
Browning
Kulik
Wylie
Elvis
Boitano
Petrenko
Eldredge
Plushy
Galindo
Candeloro

I would give my reasons but they are subjective and I don't have time lol

[Isabelle]

1. Kurt Browning (definately)
2. Alexei Yagudin
3. Brian Orser
4. Evgeny Plushenko
5. Todd Elderege
6. Ilia Kulik
7. Philipe Candelero
8. Victor Petrenko
9. Brian Boitano
10. Paul Wylie
11. Rudy Galindo
12. Elvis Stojko (definately)

[olivia]

Tough question, but here I go:

1. Browning (he's simply the best)
2. Kulik
3. Yagudin
4. Orser
5. Wylie
6. Galindo
7. Boitano
8. Petrenko
9. Plushy
10. Eldredge
11. Candeloro
12. Stojko

O-

[Intensity20]

When I think artistry I think I have a very different approach than many. I don't look necessarily at choreography. Many programs have excellent quality but don't have an artistic commitment from the presenter (ie. skater) that makes the routine plausible. My list reflects the skaters that I feel have great skills as artists and performers, not skaters who have had artistically challenging routines.

And interestingly, as much as I value good artistry, the order I have ranked these men says very little about how I feel about these skaters overall.

1. Kurt Browning
2. Paul Wylie
3. Rudy Galindo
4. Alexei Yagudin
5. Philippe Candeloro
6. Evgeny Plushenko
7. Victor Petrenko
8. Brian Orser
9. Brian Boitano
10. Ilia Kulik
11. Elvis Stojko
12. Todd Eldredge

[loveskating]

NOt sure what you mean by artistry, but to me, it means ultimately the expression of the vision and soul of the skater (or painter, or singer) through a given or innovated form which must be at the highest standard set. Torvil and Dean's "Bolero" would be the prime example.

On your list I would choose [b:cbfc98f04e]Ilia Kulik, Kurt Browning, Paul Wylie [/b:cbfc98f04e]and in an entirely different way, [b:cbfc98f04e]Brian Boitano; [/b:cbfc98f04e]my list would include [b:cbfc98f04e]Alexander Abt [/b:cbfc98f04e]and [b:cbfc98f04e]Takeshi Honda[/b:cbfc98f04e].

I consider Yagudin and Plushenko as lacking artistry, but having phenomenal presentation skills...they seem to me to express their coach's vision, not their own, and they do a fabulous job of it, but I feel the lack of passion in their work. I see Todd Eldredge similarly...but all of these three are great skaters technically, very masterful, quite enjoyable for that reason alone. In opera, one would say of them what is said about Kiri Tekanawa....great voice, not much soul.

Petrenko was once a very great and passionate skater...a wonderful artist...but lately, he has gone for the gimmicks.

I've never followed Orser.

I don't think the other people on your list have any real "artistry"...to me, they seem to have more what I'd call gimmicks; Stojko, for instance, is himself on the ice, he is the character, much like an actor who can only play one role but he was a truly great jumper, and therefore very exciting; Candeloro skates the same to ANY music, and his gimmicks are repeated again and again...and his technical ability I find seriously lacking. Galindo has been entirely predictable, which has disappointed me...incredible front catch spin, though.

[lBrokenAnkle]

<<<<<[quote="loveskating"]NOt sure what you mean by artistry, but to me, it means ultimately the expression of the vision and soul of the skater (or painter, or singer) through a given or innovated form which must be at the highest standard set. Torvil and Dean's "Bolero" would be the prime example.

On your list I would choose [b:1e14caad66]Ilia Kulik, Kurt Browning, Paul Wylie [/b:1e14caad66]and in an entirely different way, [b:1e14caad66]Brian Boitano; [/b:1e14caad66]my list would include [b:1e14caad66]Alexander Abt [/b:1e14caad66]and [b:1e14caad66]Takeshi Honda[/b:1e14caad66]. >>>>

I was really struck by your definition which I totally agree with, loveskating, but it is weird too, because even with the same basic definition of artistry, my list does not match yours very well. I agree with Brian B , Kurt and Paul, but while Sasha Abt and Takshi Honda have great presentation, I have never felt I saw any vision or soul from either of them. Ditto for Ilia though he has very clever programs

All that means is that artistry is so much in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

Laura

[Lynnet]

I gave this same answer to this same question on another board but .....

I guess I see 'artistic' as painting your own picture on the ice. I am not sure if any of the other guys do their own choreography but I know that Elvis does, so he would top my list of most 'artistic'. There are certainly other guys who present a creative program on the ice, but in most cases, it is their choreographer who is artistic, not the skater themselves. If the skater is holding their arms and doing movements as instructed by the choreographer, then the skater is the artist's medium like clay or paint rather than being artistic themselves.
Just another perspective.
Does anyone know if any of these other skaters create their own programs?

[ss_skater]

Elvis tops my list to, he is simply the best. He dared to be different artisticly, and i loved it

GO ELVIS

[SShaste]

I agree that artistry should be the athlete's vision not the choreographer's and like Lynnet said Elvis does his own choreography so I would say I find him the most artistic. But really everyone's list is going to be different because artistry is what you consider to be as far as I know there is no clear definition on Good Artistry is.... or Bad Artistry is.... it's just what you think it should be, it's your opinion. We've seen this by just looking at everyone's lists, one person has one skater at the top of their list and another at the bottom and then the next person has the same skater that the other person had at the bottom on the top and the one that the other person had on the top on the bottom. Did that make any sense whatsoever, lol. Anyway that's just my opinion. Now I forget which skaters were on that list so I won't do mine except to say that I think Elvis is the most artistic followed closely by Browning and Yagudin (sorry those are the only ones I remember were on the list, lol)