New Judging system effective next GP season!!!

[Luenatic]

From the Canadian technical meeting for coaches during Canadian Nationals (no spoiler, just technical and admin stuff):

http://www.skatecanada.ca/english/cdnse02/news/newsthurs_2.html

The move to a new judging system is coming and the ISU has announced that it will be implemented at the Senior Grand Prix level in the 2003-2004 season. It is imperative that competitive coaches learn about this new system and begin to adopt a strategic approach to program composition so that their athletes can achieve the maximum number of points possible based on their abilities.



Oh dear, it's happening so fast. I can just see a program full of difficult elements and no in-between what so ever. Figure jumping may be the future of this sport.

[DancerFan]

:evil: Don't you LOVE how the ISU has just SHOVED this through, not voted on or approved by anyone?????:evil:

[RobinA]

Yep, this is where figure skating becomes gymnastics. A bunch of difficult moves strung together with the winner coming down to a stuck landing. Ugh.

[Screenie]

When was this announced by the ISU?? Maybe it's just poor writing on the part of SkateCanada? Doubt that the site would break the news before the ISU.

[Spinner]

Wonderful. Now we'll get to see programs 'constructed' to earn points rather than choreographed to present a piece of music...ugh is right.

[SPICYMEATBALL]

Spinner I understand your concern in re: the new scoring system but I have seen the results of some of the tests that have taken place this year and the results were better in many respects than the ones that officially happened. There was a large amount of movement and there was no "holding up" going on at all. The second mark is still very important and the actual skating that is taking place that performance is the skating that is judged. Not some performance that only the french judge can see. We have met at competitions before and I think that if you give this system a chance it will make you more of a fan than you are now. Its not perfect but it is not "gymnastics" on ice. Honest.

respectfully....

[adrianchew]

When I see it produce reasonable results I might believe it - but so far all the "hidden" nature of the system has everyone preparing for the worse. Movement in itself is not necessarily better. Perhaps if the ISU made an attempt to share the results of the tests and show everyone how the new system works (explain, explain, explain please!) then people might slowly be swayed.

The way the system was put into place also bring a whole bunch of things into question - it seems like most federations were duped into thinking it was experimental and now its going live. That was sneaky and underhanded all the way... so why should anyone believe anything the ISU proposes.

And why are federations such as Skate Canada and the USFSA not testing the new system at their own Nationals or considering adopting it at the National level?

Too many questions left unanswered - until I see something I like, it looks all murky and bad to me.

[Aaron W]

*sigh* :(

[Lee]

Everything official and semi-official (in the press or otherwise) says most of the judges who have trialed this new system like it. Presentation is still a huge factor in the scoring, but the points system brings a great objectivity to placements.

Pam Coburn (SC CEO) said SC (among other countries) has been pushing hard for changes, to the point of 'drawing a line in the sand' when the ISU tried to get the association to back off last spring. It's important to have the changes made that will not only effectively make the scoring more objective, but also give it the appearance of being more objective.

And when push comes to shove, it's not the fans who have to work with the new system -- it's the coaches, skaters and judges. It would only make sense to give those with the vested interest a heads-up on what's coming down the pipe.

Last spring, it was very clearly stated by the ISU that these changes would be fully in place by the end of this Olympic quadrennial. Get the system in place to run at the GP series next year makes perfect sense. The ISU then has two years before the next Olympics to tweak and adjust as required so there is the best possible product available in 2006.

It seems fans are very quick to criticize ANY move by the ISU (or the federations, for that matter) -- I'd like to see people hold their judgments until they've actually seen the system in action. Wishful thinking, I know, but...one can dream...;-)

[Louis]

Why should people be willing to give Cinquanta or his system a chance? The man admitted that he doesn't know very much about figure skating on national television. He has openly allowed blatant cheating to go unpunished. He has denounced judges, athletes, and officials who have expressed ANY criticisms over either the interim system or the code of points. Some of his actions regarding the code of points system are in violation of the ISU's own bylaws. These are all easily verifiable FACTS. The man has no credibility, and I daresay no ethics. He has instituted a reign of terror in the ISU where anyone who speaks out against him is eliminated, and where every action of judges and officials must be shrouded in secrecy. Until that reign of terror has ended, I can't see how anyone could have anything but mistrust of any ISU actions.

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by Lee

It seems fans are very quick to criticize ANY move by the ISU (or the federations, for that matter) -- I'd like to see people hold their judgments until they've actually seen the system in action. Wishful thinking, I know, but...one can dream...;-)

Skaters have spoken up about it as well - its not just the fans. And waiting till after is falling into the trap - once its in place, don't expect it to get changed or removed easily. It might be too late then.

I am not even convinced the USFSA or SC truly has the interests of the skaters fully covered at all times either... trust, is something that's gone down the tubes. If they want trust - they need to earn trust by acting transparently, not pulling underhanded surprises on the world at large.

[DancerFan]

Originally posted by Screenie
When was this announced by the ISU?? Maybe it's just poor writing on the part of SkateCanada? Doubt that the site would break the news before the ISU.

Pah-leeze, do you think David Dore and Ted Barton AREN'T going to force their joint "baby" through the system at break neck speed, (along with Speedy who needs to silence the media?) And who better to announce it first than Skate Canada?:roll:

[spiralsrfun]

I agree with all the reservations about this new system.

The ISU (and the federations for that matter) have done nothing to show good faith. Why should we blindly believe or trust in a new system that's being shoved down our throats without being public about the testing, etc. :??

[RobinA]

I am not a person who has criticized the ISU or the federations much at all. I don't even have a huge problem with the secrecy thing. However, I have a horror of seeing figure skating become floor exercise on ice. I was once a gymnastics (secondary to skating) fan. Now I just watch the sport (about once a year) and shake my head at the souless point-scoring event it has become. I fear losing figure skating, a sport I have been a fan of since I was a child, to the gods of quantification that ate gymnastics.

[Arsenette]

So let me get this straight.. not only are we getting a new way for the scores to be tabulated.. this is still done in secret like it has been this entire past season?? Random scoring with scores not attached to judges who are not even announced?? :roll: Wake me up when it's over.

[skatorade]

It doesn't even matter WHAT the system is, if it is the same old judges doing the scoring. All of this talk about the relative pros and cons of any new system just smokescreen the real issues. ANY system can be corrupted if cheaters are not handled decisively. NOTHING The ISU has done indicates to me that they really have the desire or ability to attack the root cause of the problems. The continued secrecy only adds fuel o the idea that the ISU is more interested in sweeping things under the rug than dealing with them. I think if the ISU committed itself to finding ways to eliminate corruption first and foremost while taking time to analyze potential new scoring systems, people would be much more willing to give them a chance. They want fans to have faith in their decision making when they have done NOTHING to foster either faith or goodwill. I have no doubt that the current regime will only further ruin the sport's credibility.

[Emilieanne]

Skatorade, you are right on the money on this one. What I am wondering is what is really motivating the ISU powers-that-be to continue engaging in the sleazy dishonest behaviors. All I can think of is "follow the money." Someone (or group of someones) must be deriving a considerable benefit of some kind for this behavior.

Perhaps we need to start a new thread...

Let's take a look at where the monies are coming from (and going). The annual dues that each federation pays does not amount to very much (300 Swiss francs per federation, with approximately 75 federations, that comes to 22,500 Swiss francs, or approximately $15,000 US). That sum does not even cover the administrative expenses in running an office (paper, computer consumables, telephone, fax, etc., etc., etc.). So where do the rest of the monies come from? Once we talk about where the monies are coming from (and that should tell us a lot in and of itself), we can talk about where they are going...that will also tell us even more. Think about it.

It is obvious that the ISU is not willing to clean up its own house. The ONLY way I see this as getting remedied is for the IOC to demand that all federations enact and enforce ethical standards for officials as a requirement for remaining Olympic eligible before its next Olympiad; the federations would be permitted to enact their own rules, yet the IOC would still reserve the right to demand those rules meet given criteria. This is what the IOC did to remedy the drug issue; all federations must be WADA (anti-doping) compliant as a prerequisite to maintaining Olympic eligibility.:idea: :idea: