Excuse me, but...What's happening with the Brisbane case??

[Ivan W]

I know...considering all the other ISU scandals in play, this might seem somewhat mini. However, when an event get changed from one location to another without a valid (or semi-valid) reason, you do have to wonder.

Also, (and sorry to all the French fans out there but...) didn't this involve the French skating federation also.

Sorry if I am bring up conspiracy theories but it does make you want to think...

[bleu]

I thought it was solved long time ago. The case was taken to the CAS and the Australian federation must have won because I remember reading somewhere something about monetary reward and someone saying it took so long and alot of money(CAS is very expensive). Something that the federation did not anticipate and want to go through again. I believe it was solve in Jan 2002 just before the olympics.

[Lee]

IIRC, the case came out more or less as a 'draw' in that the CAS didn't really assign blame to either side, however the ISA *was* given some financial reimbursements for expenses paid out before the ISU decided to yank the event. This was all done over a year ago...

[Aussie Willy]

This is an old story and it was settled a couple of years ago.

Basically Ice Skating Australia (ISA) did lose the case but received money to refund all people who had prepaid for tickets. It took at least 18 months to get my money back.

The whole issue was over the media coverage. ISA stupidly did not have the issue of which TV station was going to broadcast the event sorted out and the ISU pulled the plug on it.

As far as I am concerned, ISA handled the whole situation very poorly. Skating fans in Australia were extremely disappointed with the lack of communication that ISA undertook to advise people who had booked tickets about what was going on. In fact they were even taking people's money even after the event had been switched from Brisbane to Nice.

So if you were wanting an answer to your question, basically ISA were the ones in the wrong. I think the ISU should have gone ahead with holding the event in Australia but because ISA had not sorted out the TV rights issue (which should have been sorted out before any contracts were signed), they really deserved to lose the event. They were just very bad organisers and after their poor communication really lost the support of most Australian skating fans.

[hoptoad]

Thanks for the update Aussie Willy. Hopefully some in the ISA learned the right lessons from the experience and things will eventually get better.

[Ivan W]

Thanks for the updates. It's really sad that Australia had to lose the event in that fashion. It would have been the ISU high point to have a Worlds competition outside the familiar skating regions. Not to mention, it could have been the good starting point for the 4 Continent Championships to grow out of instead of the current state that it is in.

Oh, well...

[Rae]

Aussie Willy -

I really have to disagree with you on your impression of the outcome of the CAS case between ISA and ISU.
The wording of the finding by CAS was that ISA was in no way to blame for the relocation of Worlds 2000, particularly in relation to anything to do with telebvision rights and broadcasting. However, as Lee pointed out, blame was not attached to the ISU either (a cop out by CAS in my personal opinion - and that means nothing either). The ISU were odered to pay reimbursements.

I would also ask you to reconsider your opinion re ISA acting poorly. All television negotiations were out of their hands entirely and in the domain of the ISU exclusively. Secondly - can you imagine what a difficult decision it would be for a minnow in the skating world like Australia to take exception and fight back after the ISU made their decision to relocate - especially when it was within the ISU's power to bring in their own broadcasters if they were so unhappy with Australian networks and surely that would have been cheaper than moving it to France? What should ISA have done? Sat back and done nothing - not even try have all the ticket holders recompensed and "do" their money in without some action? Not to mention ISA's bills. How could ISA have done anymore. It was an unprecendented action.

At this time due to the ISU decision in 1999, the coffers ARE empty nationally and even our international judges are mostly paying their own way or using FF points to get to international events - not to mention the skaters.

In the long term, how do you think other small skating nations in Europe feel about bidding for big events? The scenario is too real that their event may be yanked after they've used all their money to get it going.

[kia]

I agree with you Rae it is a bad precedent to set which surely will discourage smaller nations from bidding for events but perhaps not to have to go to Australia is what the ISU wanted. The power brokers from the ISU are all in the more powerful nations a long way from Australia and the cost of transport is not cheap.. Even thus I am sure there is a lot more that happened on both sides that never made the media and will we never really know the truth about what actually happened. Had the ISA been completely innocent they would have received compensation in the international court but to get the money to recompensate for all the payments already made the ISA had to sign an agreement of secrecy about the court case.??

[Aussie Willy]

Rae - I know I sound harsh, but the simple fact that after the Worlds were withdrawn from Australia, ISA's communication to people who had purchased tickets was really pathetic. Most of the people at my rink were disgusted with it. Even one of the coaches at our rink who had attended Worlds or Europeans (I can't remember exactly which) after that decision and was probably the most informed at our rink said basically that ISA lost the case. They only way people could find out what was going on was through gossip and the internet - never from ISA themselves. ISA did not get around to informing those who purchased tickets until about 5 or 6 months after it was decided the event would be given to Nice. And if ISA had been totally in the clear they would have received recompense for everything, including court costs.

Basically most of us skaters felt that if ISA had been a more professional and well run organisation this never would have happened. But then it probably says more about the state of skating in Australia generally than just this one case.

[Rae]

Aussie Willy -
After Worlds was withdrawn, the information to ticket holders was slow. I have to agree with that.

The biggest sadness for me here is hearing (or reading) Australian skaters or interested people such as yourself say "And if ISA had been totally in the clear they would have received recompense for everything, including court costs." I know it must seem like that because in any ordinary court you and I can judge who is the good guy and who is the bad guy by the amount of money awarded or not awarded. CAS would not operate like that in this case (too used to selection and drug related cases I guess). Even though they could have and should have they stuck to their "arbitors" role.

I've read the finding. The actual finding by CAS. ISA never acted in any way in which to bring about the debacle. And what makes me sad is that CAS would not point the finger at the ISU and in time it's that lack of finger pointing that will discourage others. So it was a nil all draw with the ISU having to pay costs incurred up until the time of the withdrawal. Then the ISU was SLOW paying up, waiting on auditors and every other excuse under the sun. That part took so long and that's why ticket holders very sadly had to wait. Even the costs incurred has been in dispute and I don't know if it's been totally finished. It may have been by now - I don't know.

I've had a lot to say about this situation over the years. It's time to stop and move on.

[shuey]

Aussie Willy


You are so far from the truth it is laughable. CAS found that ISA was not to blame for the loss of the Championships as follows

"no blame at all attaches to the ISA in connection with the subsequent television contracts that led directly to the Championships being removed from Australia by the ISU"

Furthermore the CAS found that ISA was entitled to compensation.

"The Panel (being CAS) has already determined that the ISA was blameless"


Details of the settlement are confidential and the above quotes are accurate.

Where you are getting your information from Aussie Willy is beyond me, it is nothing more than pure gossip and incorrect information.

I agree the ticket refunds did take some time but the ISA also had their hands tied. In a court case the ticket refunds could have been seen as a preferential creditor if ISA had in fact issued refunds prior to the CAS decision. You do not understand the legal issues at all that is very obvious.

The people at the ISA are very dedicated hardworking people who have nothing but the best interests of the sport in their hearts.

Your inaccurate comments on an international message board do your country no favours!!!!!

[kia]

The sad part about this whole case is that it is a David and Goliath situation where unfortunately Goliath won leaving David in a state of tatters with only some of the costs recovered. True there has been reinbursement for the financial costs but what about the hours of dedicated volunteers work and the dreams of a small skating nation. Shuey I do not under stand the powers of this court. Did the court feel the ISA was entitled to compensation but it was not in their powers to award compensation for this

[Aussie Willy]

Excuse me Shuey, are you part of ISA? I do know what I am talking about and it was not just the amount of time it took to get the money back. It was the lack of communication and also discussing with people who were in the know about the case. I am sorry but no matter what you say, the reputation of ISA in the Australian skating community was damaged through this, and it was not just myself saying so. It was professional coaches and skaters at my rink who also developed these opinions so I am not the only one. I basically am speaking for a group of people who were affected by what happened.

There was no excuse for the lack of professionalim that was exhibited by ISA in relation to not informing ticket holders of what was going on. All we had to depend upon was rumour and gossip so please forgive me if that is the impression I give but that was all most of us in the skating community had to go on. If we had been given up to date information and kept in the loop then maybe WE as a skating group would not be so cynical about the whole matter.

As for the issue of ISA of being blameless - I think if you had read my previous post, I am quoting one of our coaches who was there when the issue was discussed at a press conference at a major skating event and that was his analysis. So I am quoting him, as someone who was much closer to the rest of us about what was going on.

So before you attack me, please read my contributions to the forum because I think I have clearly stated where me and other members of the skating community that I am involved with come from.

I am afraid that the impression that I give about skating in Australia and the way it is run is a negative one, but unfortunately when it is all you come up against with the sport in this country, I cannot help but be cynical (as you should notice from my signature line).

[shuey]

Aussie Willy

I do take your point about the ticket refunds. It was the comments about ISA being at fault and insuating incompetence that prompted me to reply to your post.

How could ISA give any information to ticket holders when there was absolutely none to give out. Press Releases were posted on the 2000 Worlds website to try and inform people of developments. ISA had to await the decision of CAS.

The persons whom you speak about are very likely coaches, skaters, parents etc and I will say there was a tremendous amount of misinformation around at the time due to gossip and rumour only.

The CAS action took some 2 years. It was an unprecedented action, the first ever taken by an ISU member country against the ISU. The cost to ISA was horrendous but justified with the CAS decision stating ISA were totally blameless.

ISA wanted to refund tickets immediately but upon legal advice could not until the CAS decision took place. Ticket refunds were issued immediately the decision was handed down. ISA could not help the fact it was 2 years later, the international CAS court is very, very slow.

So when you insinuate ISA were incompetent, I can tell you the number of people involved, the incredibly horrendous hours putting an international law case together shows me nothing more than pure dedication to their beloved sport.

The ticket refunds were a small part of the law case. The ISU requested audits etc and the ISU did everything in their power to slow the process down. ISA cannot be blamed for that.

The general public are not privy to the inside workings of the ISU and you only had to see what happened at SLC to work that one out.

I did not mean to attack you but rather give you some facts.

[shuey]

In addition, the person to whom you refer as having attended a press conference at an international skating event.

Welcome to the world of the politics of the ISU.


SLC should have been an indication as to the politics surrounding our international federation.

[shuey]

Hi Kia

I appreciate your comments about David and Goliath because that is exactly how it is.

The CAS did state that the ISU had to pay ISA full indemnity for all costs incurred.

Unfortunately due to a confidentiality agreement (most people are aware this is common is these types of cases) exact details cannot be given out by ISA. The confidentiality agreement also allows the ISU to "hide" the findings of the court. I know that ISA are not happy with this but ISA is a very small fish in the politics of the ISU.

[Rae]

shuey - All well said.

[Rae]

Actually I'm having an angry moment.
I'll go so far as to say the ISU has robbed Australian skaters of a fair go and a decent chance in the coming years.
Aussie Willy - you'll know Victorian judges and skaters and coaches and they pay, pay and pay more to just stay involved - and skating in Victoria is rather small at the moment. Well - it's ten fold everywhere else. It's not a free ride - we're never expecting that but a fair go from the ISU would be a decent change.

The only bright spot I can see on the horizon is the ISU junior development program as held in Beijing last year, similar to the one in Finland. I hope the ISU keeps that going at least. Let's watch and wait and see.

[bleu]

Originally posted by shuey



The CAS action took some 2 years. It was an unprecedented action, the first ever taken by an ISU member country against the ISU. The cost to ISA was horrendous but justified with the CAS decision stating ISA were totally blameless.



Now that is a fact that I read in a skating magazine two years ago.

[bleu]

.

[kia]

The Brisbane case like most other controvercies probably would have disappeared and the the integrety of the ISU other than sending the Australian association broke would never have been questioned although there would always be the unanswered question' could the Australians have been at fault.?' However the surrounding confidentiality and secrecy and the way Worlds was changed, especially after the Olympic scandal will always leave the question of how much corruption could have been involved -especially as it went to the French also involed in the Olympic scandal

[essence_of_soy]

that Australia cannot bid for another ISU event in the future, like junior worlds or even four continents.

The 2 junior worlds events I saw were amazing, and from all reports, the goodwill games in 2001 were exceptionally well attended.

Just wondering.