USA a no-go for suspected French skaters (USA Today)

[Blue Line]

The article is now a few days old, but I haven't seen this posted yet.

About Anissina and Peizerat cancelling plans to skate in the Winter COI tour because of legal issues re: the FBI investigation of the Olympics.

http://usatoday.com/sports/olympics/2002-12-19-french-skaters_x.htm

[Lark]

If Marina were innocent, would she not come here to skate? Does her unwillingness to come to the USA imply guilt?

[loveskating]

It does not imply guilt. Guilt or innocence in the U.S. is determined solely at court, and the burden of proof is on the government.

The charges against Anissina are contained in a complaint accepted by the Southern District of New York...a specific federal court of the United States, entitled to jurisdiction in this specific matter soley because the claimed "fix" occurred at the Salt Lake City Olympics on U.S. soil.

Therefore, if Anissina is in on American soil, she is subject to being taken for questioning by U.S. authorities, and after questioning her, they could charge her with all sorts of things that could put her and keep her in jail pending trial. That goes for any of the principals charged in the specific complaint.

This is currently just a tactical issue, indicating that the U.S. authorities, apparently unable to get their hands on Mr. T, want a principal in their custody, so as to speed the process, probably.

It also indicates quite clearly that the French now believe that the U.S. is very serious about all this.

[Mazurka Girl]

Originally posted by loveskating
This is currently just a tactical issue, indicating that the U.S. authorities, apparently unable to get their hands on Mr. T, want a principal in their custody, so as to speed the process, probably.
None of this information you have specified as plans of the FBI is stated or implied anywhere in that short little article. Please do share with us your inside track to the FBI tactics you have indicated they will be pursuing in regards to Anissina.

[loveskating]

Originally posted by Mazurka Girl
None of this information you have specified as plans of the FBI is stated or implied anywhere in that short little article. Please do share with us your inside track to the FBI tactics you have indicated they will be pursuing in regards to Anissina.

Did I mention the FBI? Nope.

One of the things that happens in criminal cases is that a defendant, or even a non-party witness, can be called in front of a grand jury...and if they refuse to testify for any reason, they can be put in jail indefinitely. It happens all the time. Type in "grand juries" on a search engine on the Net and you will readily find such information.

I haven't got a clue which branch of law enforcement the U.S. Attorneys in the Southern District would utilize, but I do know that once there is a complaint and an indictment (both of which have apparently occurred), the U.S. Attorneys are in charge of the case on the prosecutorial side.

Will both sides, plaintiff (in this instance, the Southern District U.S. Attorneys are the plaintiffs) and defendants utilize ALL tactical possibilities and all processes available to them? Of course, both sides will.

I have no 'inside track'...just expressing my own opinion, which is perhaps a bit more informed as to the law than the average person because I have been a legal secretary for some time -- but my opinion is nowhere near as informed as that of any attorney, let alone an attorney familiar with this case in particular.

Still, it is my opinion that Anissina would not give up such a lucrative opportunity were she and her attorneys not fearful of this sort of thing, and it is also my opinion that this decision indicates she is fearful of such a tactic (there are MANY legal tactics that both sides employ), but not that she is guilty, or that she is not guilty for that matter.

Secondly, since there seems to be a note of hostility in the language of your post, please let me explain that I quite often type what is called "Jury Charges" for attorneys, and in these each prospective juror is required to answer under oath, "Will you listen to the evidence from both sides, plaintiff's and defendant's, before you make up your mind?"

I regard this jury charge as important, even as sacred to our legal system...and I have not made up my mind about this case. I would do no less for a mere personal injury, or an intellectual property plaintiff and defendant, much less for a case in which there is according to the statutes listed in that complaint up to 33 years maximum jail time for the crimes alleged by the Southern District.

[meli]

Here's another factor that may be keeping Anissina out...even if she is later found not guilty, if she is arrested the INS can permanently deport her and she cannot work in the US ever again. This is a policy the INS has had at least since the mid 90's.

Guilty or not, it's good advice for her to stay out of the US until the investigation is finished.

[Artistic Skaters]

loveskating, it doesn't matter if it's the US Attorneys in the Southern District, or FBI, or who. That article does not even come close to implying that anyone is going to jail A/P because they can't "get their hands on Mr T". Plus it says "The International Skating Union has warned its officials that they can expect to be approached by the FBI when on U.S. soil. The FBI has interviewed at least three international judges and skating officials as part of its on-going investigation."

There is an awful lot of drama in your version compared to what is in the actual news brief.

[Emilieanne]

It ought to be interesting as to which of the powers-that-be actually shows up for Worlds in Washington this year given what is going on...hmmm.;) ;) I am sure a good number of them are going to stay home to avoid all this.

[loveskating]

Originally posted by Artistic Skaters
loveskating, it doesn't matter if it's the US Attorneys in the Southern District, or FBI, or who. That article does not even come close to implying that anyone is going to jail A/P because they can't "get their hands on Mr T". Plus it says "The International Skating Union has warned its officials that they can expect to be approached by the FBI when on U.S. soil. The FBI has interviewed at least three international judges and skating officials as part of its on-going investigation."

There is an awful lot of drama in your version compared to what is in the actual news brief.

Dramatic? Well, perhaps I do feel that any skater charged with a criminal offence by the Southern District of the United States is in a rather dramatic situation, particularly when the various statutes listed in the complaint total up to approximately 33 years maximum jail time(and in a FEDERAL prison) (not to mention huge fines).

Let's be clear: if you or I go to Iran, I am and you are subject to their laws. This is why, for instance, the U.S. can do little to get children taken illegally from the U.S. to Iran by their Iranian father...as long as he is in Iran; or why kids convicted of a crime in Turkey cannot be extricated from a Turkish prison, for that matter! So if you do not agree with this, please state why, because as far as I know, its a fact...and it is a fact that if Anissina comes here, she is subject to our laws the instant she steps foot on American soil.

But sure, to be very clear, the article did not state that law enforcement might pick Anissina up for questioning, and then the prosecutors (called U.S. Attorneys) could bring her in front of the grand jury for this case, and then throw her in jail if she refuses to testify in front of the Grand Jury. I am clearly the one who said that this was a possible plan, and in any case, I believe this is what Anissina's attorneys are probably concerned about. Since this happens even in little civil disobedience cases, I don't exactly understand why you would view this as "damatic"? Why do you think Susan McDougal was in prison for such a long time in the context of the Clinton "Whitewater" affair...she was in jail for years MERELY for refusing to testify abefore the Special Prosecutor, she was never convicted of ANY crime whatsoever!

Anissina is a named defendant so she has a totally different status than anyone who might be prospectively interviewed by the FBI as per your quote abut the ISU warning from the article above. Being a named defendant in a CRIMINAL trial is very serious business, and how you can liken that to a mere interview by the FBI or any law enforcement associated with this case is completely beyond me.

FYI, it is common practice once a complaint is made for attorneys on both sides to interview or question a whole slew of people...some of whom will have relevant information, most of whom usually will not. This is even true in a personal injury case (which only has a consequence of paying money damages), much less in a criminal case, where jail time and fines can be imposed!!! Those with relevant information and thus testimony not named as defendant or plaintiff will be called "non-party witnesses". If a prospective witness refuses to cooperate, the attorney can usually go to court and get a subpoena requiring them to do so, and to be deposed, as well. (Depositions are sworn testimony whch is taken PRIOR to the actual trial).

Again, IMHO, Anissina's decision not to skate with COI does not imply that she is guilty, it only implies that she is afraid of the LEGALLY possible things that might happen to her once she steps foot on American soil.

I read somewhere that Mr. T's extradition trial is scheduled for January 7. If he is extradited, it will be interesting to see whether or not the French allow Anissina to appear for trial in the U.S.

[Mazurka Girl]

Originally posted by Artistic Skaters
There is an awful lot of drama in your version compared to what is in the actual news brief.
:lol: :lol: You said it much better than me.

[loveskating]

Originally posted by Mazurka Girl
:lol: :lol: You said it much better than me.

Hmmm.

I'm sure every reader, even you, can imagine what it might be like to suddenly be charged with a violation of criminal statutes which carry a maximum of approximately 33 years jail time, which is what Anissina faces?

If that's not a dramatic situation, I don't know what drama is. :roll:

[tangofan]

Marina Anissina is not a "defendant" in this affair. US legal authorities didn't charged a complaint against her.

There is only one "defendant" in this case and it is "Mr T." aka the claimed Mob. The federal case, filed in U.S. District Court in New York is only against Mr T. And if convicted on the U.S. charges, Mr T could face up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine on each of five counts.

And the current state of the affair is here (http://newsobserver.com/24hour/sports/story/668879p-4997135c.html) .

Better to check the facts before commenting on them. And even better to use the right "terms" to attach other people's names. There is a huge difference being a "Defendant" of a complaint and having your name included at an official complaint text as a possible "witness" that the legal authorities may want to interview.

[Mazurka Girl]

Originally posted by loveskating
Hmmm.

I'm sure every reader, even you, can imagine what it might be like to suddenly be charged with a violation of criminal statutes which carry a maximum of approximately 33 years jail time, which is what Anissina faces?

If that's not a dramatic situation, I don't know what drama is. :roll:
And I'm sure every reader, even you, can imagine what's it like to have to constantly read a lot of speculative nonsense in these topics that have nothing to do with the current situation, when they want to read realistic information about the incident or event. This particular forum is, after all, Skating News & Articles, not Skating Fiction.

If that's not a dramatic situation, I don't know what drama is. :roll: :roll:

[lrngsk8-gabi]

:D MazurkaG - I like the way you post ... as to A/P - it's a shame really - they will not be able to get much mileage after going pro...g

[Mazurka Girl]

Maybe the P of A/P could come skate solo. Or grab a new partner. Is Pasha available??? :P :twisted:

[lrngsk8-gabi]

OMG - does that mean the Dance version of Elvis/Marilyn Medley is not far away 8O ... that could get Gwendal arrested faster than having a partner who was "hanging out" with mobsters :twisted: ...g

[louisagrey]

I've read some of the posts here on this thread, and I'm an attorney and don't think that "LoveSkating" is far off the mark. She's saying the kinds of things I'd be warning a client about . . . because the things LoveSkating has mentioned ARE possible (although who knows what the intent is of the prosecutors - that's pure speculation) and that's scary.

Here's a bit more information on the Complaint pending before the court in the S.District of New York (I can't figure out how to put the link in . . . sorry).

"The complaint released Wednesday contained transcribed excerpts of calls between Tokhtakhounov and an unidentified Russian skating federation official, as well as an unnamed "female ice dancer," who is clearly Anissina, the Soviet-born female half of the French ice pair team."

So . . . the Complaint filed in New York contains some proof of a conspiracy to defraud (a federal crime) with Annissina as a possible co-conspirator (or at least someone with knowledge relevant to an conspiracy involving other people). I would hope that the skaters would not be an object of the Prosecutor's investigation (!), but the facts as they MAY be, would tend to support that Annissina is also being investigated and that a large conspiracy is what the Prosecutor is looking to uncover. That would certainly be enough for me - as someone's attorney or even friend - to warn them to avoid being interviewed by the FBI or any other government official.

I do think my opinion is largely colored by my being an attorney and my general opinion that "say nothing" is preferable to giving one's side of the story. Of course, that's a personal choice. If Anissina has nothing to hide (which I of course assume is the truth and I give her and the others the full benefit of the doubt), perhaps she should let whomever interview her and get it over with. This must be terribly stressful for her and Peizerat and I wish them the best and hope they make the best personal decision they can. I would hate to see them avoid the United States forever, but they have to make the choice that's best for them.

[Jack]

I am accusing everyone in this thread of using far too many quotation marks.

:P

[KMK0902]

I fully agree with Luisagrey that Annissina should let herself be interviewed and prove that she doesn't have anything to hide. Staying away is not the way to go if one would like to have a successful pro-career, nothing good is going to come out of it ( IMHO ).

And it will be interesting to see how many top officials suddenly develop a cold just in time for Worlds......

Kat

[KHenry14]

I think one other thing not mentioned yet is that I don't believe that most prosecutor's would seek an indictment of Marina. Clearly they'd want to cut a deal with her to implicate Mr. T. However, perhaps they might indict to show Marina they were serious, but I can't believe that Marina couldn't cut a deal before that.

However, with that said, Marina undoubtedly is concerned about Mr. T's "connections" back home, so to put off having her car blown up, she might choose to clam up and stay out of the USA. Which would potentially cost her and Gwendal lots of $$, but she may see that as the sacrifice she has to make.

But then again, if she was in on the fix, I don't feel too sorry for her.

Ken

[loveskating]

Originally posted by Mazurka Girl
And I'm sure every reader, even you, can imagine what's it like to have to constantly read a lot of speculative nonsense in these topics that have nothing to do with the current situation, when they want to read realistic information about the incident or event. This particular forum is, after all, Skating News & Articles, not Skating Fiction.

If that's not a dramatic situation, I don't know what drama is.

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that some posts here (mine, according to you) were so terrible, it seems rather dramatic of YOU to compare facing criminal charges with bad posts...I'd suggest to you that to ANYONE facing criminal charges, even in state court, not to mention federal court, it is a far, far more serious and "life determining" thing than merely reading any "bad" post, anywhere, any time. :roll: :roll:

Again, any attorney would advise someone in Anissina's position to stay off American soil...due to the possiblities I've previously stated. Heck, if someone were charged with a crime in Mississippi's jurisdiction while being tried in Texas, an attorney would rightly advise that person to stay out of Mississippi. What I am saying is simply a regular part of the legal scenario in this country, not NEARLY the speculative matter you claim it is...and as to whether the prosecutors INTEND to do this, that is irrelevent...the mere fact that they can do it, that prosecutors do it, is enough.

Again, Anissina's choice not to skate with COI does not imply any guilt whatsoever. Guilt or innocence is determined at court...not by things like this.

But you have been so busy attacking me personally, claiming I am totally off base, bashing me, you have not mentioned whether you think this "choice" of Anissina's to not skate with COI implies she is guilty? What do YOU think her decision means as to her guilt and why?

[lrngsk8-gabi]

I believe that doing as your lawyer advises is smart and in no way implies guilt or innocence or what indeed if you are guilty of something that something is.

I do think it's a crying shame for fans of Ice Dance not to be able to see A/P ...g

[Mazurka Girl]

Originally posted by loveskating
But you have been so busy attacking me personally, claiming I am totally off base, bashing me, you have not mentioned whether you think this "choice" of Anissina's to not skate with COI implies she is guilty? What do YOU think her decision means as to her guilt and why?
By all means, please give me an example of where I have bashed you in any of these threads. Otherwise, I would suggest you watch your statements like this in regards to my posts.

To answer your other question, I do not have an opinion at this time regarding Anissina's guilt or innocence, but I also do not presume she is guilty based on her decision not to come to the U.S.

[loveskating]

Originally posted by Mazurka Girl
By all means, please give me an example of where I have bashed you in any of these threads. Otherwise, I would suggest you watch your statements like this in regards to my posts.

To answer your other question, I do not have an opinion at this time regarding Anissina's guilt or innocence, but I also do not presume she is guilty based on her decision not to come to the U.S.

Thanks for answering...that was my only point, that not skating in COI does not imply at all that Anissina is guilty, and I tried to state legal issues that I am aware of that others might not be aware of because I have been a legal secretary for many years.

As for the personal stuff, we can hash that out by e-mail...I'm not out to bash you, I like reading most of your posts and welcome a civil debate, because I learn and I think everyone else learns from that.

[adrianchew]

Closing this topic down. If you have problems or disagreements with other posters, please address them in a civil manner via PM or e-mail with the poster and/or the moderators. ~adrianchew~