Hughes up in the air over nationals - Hersh article 12/15/02 [Archive]

spiralsrfun

12-16-2002, 03:08 PM

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/international/cs-0212140193dec14,1,3266474.story?coll=cs%2Dinternat ional%2Dprint

Oops, forgot about the register thing...here's a quote:
"I'm going to see how my training progresses," Hughes said Friday. "There is a possibility I won't go, but the possibility is getting smaller because I've been getting committed to going since I came back from my injury."

Mistyeyed

12-16-2002, 08:31 PM

I am wondering aloud but does she really care if she ever gets a National or World Title, as she had cashed in on the most sought after prize that any skater could ever hope to get, the O/G/Medal????

It seems that after every olympics, our skaters end up getting injured and then they can't get out there and skate like they want too.

AxelAnnie22

12-17-2002, 11:17 AM

Uh Oh. Doesn't sound too great! I hope she is there.
IIRC, Sarah had a hard time (mentally) in coming back from her wrist injury. She wanted to quit, but her mom made her take one more turn on the ice.....and the rest is Olympic history. You have to be really "hungry" to fight back after an injury or absence. It is really hard to make yourself, not only get back in the groove, but to make your body do the things it was doing before so easily. I wish her well.

chattykathy

12-17-2002, 01:38 PM

I am a little surprised because I thought she put so much value on winning a National title. I can see her point however, if she is not ready, and as good a Sasha is looking, she has no guarantee she would win it this year either.

I was all set for the show down though.

CMc

12-17-2002, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by AxelAnnie22
Uh Oh. Doesn't sound too great! I hope she is there.
IIRC, Sarah had a hard time (mentally) in coming back from her wrist injury. She wanted to quit, but her mom made her take one more turn on the ice.....and the rest is Olympic history. You have to be really "hungry" to fight back after an injury or absence. It is really hard to make yourself, not only get back in the groove, but to make your body do the things it was doing before so easily. I wish her well.

AxelAnnie--Yes, last weekend's events did indeed remind me as well of the Summer of 2000 for Sarah. Even though her mother's illness was harder for Sarah to deal with (And I'm sure her mom was just as crucial to Sarah's comeback as Sarah was to her mother's), this was her life she was trying to re-establish, and I'm so glad her family and Robin were there to get her back on track. It might not be as bad this time, but she's got the same great people backing her up, so I'm sure she's going to come back with style like she did before!;)

Hannahclear

12-17-2002, 03:03 PM

This has to be very hard for Sarah. Of course, she does have the ultimate prize, the Olympic Gold, so we can't feel too sorry for her. Still, the pressure of having to live up to that moment 100% of that time is very difficult and alot of pressure. I wouldn't blame her if she wanted to go to college and just move on.

She is looking a little tired and her jumps have gotten a bit weaker. I don't think she will be able to land a 3/3 without some serious training time, but I wouldn't want to see her push herself too hard after the injury.

duane

12-17-2002, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by Hannahclear
This has to be very hard for Sarah. the pressure of having to live up to that moment 100% of that time is very difficult and alot of pressure.

i agree.

i think now that she has won Olympic gold and has been accepted at Harvard, Sarah is now deciding if eligible skating--and all the unique pressure that an Olympic champion endures if she/he remains eligible--is worth it, and perhaps she is starting to think "not really".

i also think sarah's nonwinning performances at Crest and Hallmark may have also caused her to reconsider her plans.

CMc

12-17-2002, 06:24 PM

I bet you're all thinking "So much for 'Never Say-ing Goodbye'"!

But I'm sure she's considering eveything. She seemed a little more assured of herself during that little interview from the second of the 2 broadcasts of Hallmark.
And if she stops competiting, doesn't mean she won't stop skating.;)

BTW, even though she was tired, I liked her performances at Crest and Hallmark. That Fosse was a bit flawed I admit, but the two competitive programs were beautiful, even if they didn't match the Olympic SP & LP.

Mistyeyed

12-17-2002, 09:41 PM

In true Sarah Hughes Olympic style, maybe they should just write her off as a has-been......then Sarah can come back with a vengence! And she will make us all eat ice dust while she does quintuple loops all over the place;) Best of Luck to Sarah and whatever she decides!

CMc

12-17-2002, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by Mistyeyed
In true Sarah Hughes Olympic style, maybe they should just write her off as a has-been......then Sarah can come back with a vengence! And she will make us all eat ice dust while she does quintuple loops all over the place;)
Yep, that's how she came back the last time as I recall her saying!

sk8termom

12-18-2002, 08:12 AM

What do you all think--will Michelle Kwan be at nationals either? :roll:

JDC1

12-18-2002, 08:24 AM

From all her interviews and those with her agent that's the one thing Michelle has committed to, Nationals. If she makes the World team (which she should) then ofcourse she"ll go to Worlds.

I think Sarah should live her life to please herself and if it means going off to college and doing COI in the summer then so be it. She's young and probably had every intention of staying around but her injuries and her enthusiasm for school may have caused her to change her mind.

Alexa

12-18-2002, 08:58 AM

Could someone summarize what is stated in the article? It looks like one you have to register for and I usually don't do that. I guess I am confused, because at the recent comps, she kept saying how she was glad to perform her new routines so that she would have some exposure before nationals. What has happened since then to possible change her mind....a new injury or still a problem with the old injury?

Badams

12-18-2002, 11:32 AM

well...if sarah doesn't go to nationals this year it doesn't mean she's quitting. she could concentrate on school, still practice, and come back in 4 years. just because a skater takes time off to do other things doesn't mean they are going pro. yeah it would be hard, but i think sarah could do it.

gardener

12-18-2002, 11:52 AM

I hope Sarah scales back her skating and goes to Harvard. She has won the big prize and I think she should move on and explore other options. She's a smart and talented girl and if I were her Mom, I would hope she chooses that route...IMHO. Anybody else agree?

Meredith

12-18-2002, 12:26 PM

I hope Sarah chooses what she wants to do and does it. If it means giving up skating, fine. If it means attending school part time and continuing, fine. If it means putting off college for a year or two or more, fine. If she tries one of the paths and changes her mind and tries another, fine.

It's her life and I hope she chooses to live it on her terms, which I think she will. Her great skate at the Olympics will remain the high point of the event to me no matter what she chooses.

ps: Kudos to Sarah for staying off the ice long enough to heal.

gatorboy

12-18-2002, 01:31 PM

Sarah got accepted to Harvard. That doesn't mean she will start attending classes in January. I would assume it would be next fall when she starts. People are talking like she should quit skating now to concentrate on school (meaning Harvard). She's still in high school.

And I suspect she'll be at Nationals. Yes, Sasha looks nearly unbeatable if she is clean, but Sasha could fall under te pressure too. But if Sarah is anywhere near decent, she'll be top 3 (unless Angela surprises us all, an dthe judges reward her. As for Kirk or McDonough, they would have to majorly outskate Sarah by 2-3 triples to get the judges to go for them.)

Spider68

12-18-2002, 02:47 PM

This is not intended as a swipe against Sarah...
In the opinion of this forum, what would be the impact on Sarah's skating future if she does compete and doesn't win, or (gulp!) doesn't even place. As a parent of a skater, seeing her at the last competition she didn't look fit and didn't appear to have the stamina. Not a situation to be in so close to Nationals. With Sasha looking so strong, and Michelle capable of the "smart" skate, that third podium spot (yes, I'm assuming that 1-2 will be Kwan and/or Cohen) could be anyone else's to take from Sarah.

NorthernLite

12-18-2002, 04:14 PM

I've noticed a lot of people around the Net who aren't Sarah fans saying she should move on, leave skating. How generous of them to be concerned about her academic career. ;)
Anyway, in the Hersh piece, she seemed to be admitting she'd been doubtful recently but was moving toward wanting to do Nats. It would also be useful to know if she said that to him Friday afternoon *before* the first comp. She obviously was nervous about that weekend, and I wonder if she's more confident now.
However, if she needs confidence, I hope she doesn't read the Net :lol: It's SlamSarah week all over the boards, from MKF to GoldenSkate: Her "weight," her hair, her programs, blah-blah. Feh. :roll: Sometimes I'm just astonished how cruel and judgemental people can be, especially in the anonymity of the Net.
I don't want her to push herself if she's still hurt, but I think it'd be hilarious if she shows up in 3 weeks and kicked butt. :D

CMc

12-18-2002, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by Spider68
As a parent of a skater, seeing her at the last competition she didn't look fit and didn't appear to have the stamina. Not a situation to be in so close to Nationals.

In what way did she not appear to look "fit"??
Hey, if her Fosse costume from 2 years ago still fits her, she hasn't gained any weight visible to the naked eye.

adrianchew

12-18-2002, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by NorthernLite

I've noticed a lot of people around the Net who aren't Sarah fans saying she should move on, leave skating. How generous of them to be concerned about her academic career. ;)

She needs to carefully consider her options. I'm hoping she decides competes this year, and defer the decision until later, since college isn't about to begin yet for her. Once she moves on though - there's only so much anyone can do. Something has to give - either skating, school, or Sarah. If she goes all out on both, she might just burnout in the process.

It's SlamSarah week all over the boards, from MKF to GoldenSkate: Her "weight," her hair, her programs, blah-blah. Feh. :roll: Sometimes I'm just astonished how cruel and judgemental people can be, especially in the anonymity of the Net. I don't want her to push herself if she's still hurt, but I think it'd be hilarious if she shows up in 3 weeks and kicked butt. :D

I was at both events that Sarah was at - she didn't look that bad really... Irina seemed to me the skater who was more "out of shape" of the two... quite an obvious "out of steam" from Irina at some point during her program.

Sarah's jumps were tight (underroated or barely getting the rotation for triples) for the most part, but she looked overall much better than what I saw on TV at Campbell's.

CMc

12-18-2002, 05:29 PM

Thanks for clearing that up, Adrian!
I'm glad you thought she was okay. I noticed she was tired, but that could've been anything.
She's NOT out of shape, people!!

adrianchew

12-18-2002, 05:36 PM

Not in full fighting mode yet is probably closer to the truth - skaters off the ice for a while may take time to get the jumps back, but once its there, it generally comes back with some time and training.

And fat? Dare I say it? I think Sarah's "growing up" - if you know what I mean. Blossoming into quite a young lady! ;)

I think I'll go watch my Hallmark tape tonight.

Hannahclear

12-18-2002, 05:59 PM

I do not think Sarah is fat and she has not gained weight from overeating. However, it is apparent that her body is rounding as she gets closer to an adult woman's body, this is natural, so I don't think it's appropriate to call her "fat". She is just growing up and with not skating, the process is simply catching up to her.

I do think that this will put an end to those 3/3s, at least until she beats back nature, which frankly, I'm not sure is necessary or a good idea. She is the OGM and if she wants to eat chocolate once in a while and hang out with her friends, then she has certainly earned that.

duane

12-18-2002, 05:59 PM

i thought sarah performed quite well at both Crest and Hallmark, considering she was just returning from injury and hadnt competed in months.

i still think, as reigning Olympic champion, sarah is very much aware that if she were to, say, end up in 3rd place at Nationals or Worlds--or worse, not end up on the podium--this would take some of the shine off her Olympic gold. unfortunate, but true. i do think sarah is (smartly) considering whether it would be best to compete, to forgo Nationals/Worlds this year and instead come back roaring and more ready next season, or to end her eligible career.

i would love for sarah to continue her eligible career, but would like to see her do so at 100%.

adrianchew

12-18-2002, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by duane

i still think, as reigning Olympic champion, sarah is very much aware that if she were to, say, end up in 3rd place at Nationals or Worlds--or worse, not end up on the podium--this would take some of the shine off her Olympic gold. unfortunate, but true.

There is no right answer sometimes - about the only saving grace that might stop the critics is for her to win another Olympic gold medal, or maybe Nationals and Worlds and GPF in a year. If she doesn't compete, people will still question her.

She needs to focus on doing what's best for Sarah, and not what people will think of her. You just can't please everyone. ;)

AxelAnnie22

12-18-2002, 08:24 PM

Adrian, you are correct. If she doesn't compete, people will still question. But if she doesn't compete, there will be no "evidence" within the question. If she competes and ends any place but atop the podium it gives those questioners a bunch of amo for the debate.

And, the fact is....Sarah won the Olympic Gold because on that night she skated not only the best skate of the night, but the best skate of her life. And she put a smile on many faces, and a warm blow in many hearts. In those four minute, she WAS the Olympics. I will always love her for that.

She doesn't have to do a sigle other thing for me.

CMc

12-18-2002, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by adrianchew
There is no right answer sometimes - about the only saving grace that might stop the critics is for her to win another Olympic gold medal, or maybe Nationals and Worlds and GPF in a year. If she doesn't compete, people will still question her.

She needs to focus on doing what's best for Sarah, and not what people will think of her. You just can't please everyone. ;)

I wish I had your wisdom, Adrian. I can't even add anything to that!;)

Gaela

12-18-2002, 10:58 PM

A punitive post.

:?: :?:

I do not think Sarah is fat and she has not gained weight from overeating. However, it is apparent that her body is rounding as she gets closer to an adult woman's body, this is natural, so I don't think it's appropriate to call her "fat". She is just growing up and with not skating, the process is simply catching up to her.
I do think that this will put an end to those 3/3s, at least until she beats back nature, which frankly, I'm not sure is necessary or a good idea. She is the OGM and if she wants to eat chocolate once in a while and hang out with her friends, then she has certainly earned that.

Her body is rounding? Kiss of death, kiss of death. :evil:

If she skates and starves, her body won't round?
Yes, I do know that skaters delay puberty and such, but are you saying that 'adult woman' aren't competitive and can't do triple-triples? I can't think of many 'adult women' who do triple triples, except Irina, and I'd say she has a woman's body, though more athletic than Sarah's? However, neither can I think of many baby ballerinas who do triple triples, either. If hips and breasts are the problem, then why aren't Sasha and the other pre-pubescent teenagers doing triple-triples like mad? Liz Manley may not have done triple triples, but she WAS one of the best skaters of her time, while trapped in an adult body.

And, does a skater have to be an Olympic Champion to eat chocolate once in a while and hang out with friends?

I think Sarah looks great--that shot of her at practice in a bathing suit was a bit unflattering, but I'd say she just looked a little less muscular than before--

Then again, maybe the thin game is at play--and she just wants to study, eat good food, and be merry.

:D

adrianchew

12-19-2002, 12:10 AM

Want a perfect example of a grown adult ladies skater that has triples and beautiful skating? Anyone that watched Hallmark should be able to guess easily! ;)

Yuka many years later still can do triple jumps, her skating is beautiful and she still has it in her to come out first at Hallmark. Its not necessary to land 3/3 combos or 3-axels - I'd rather watch Yuka over many eligible skaters today. :P

Also remember she skated pairs and singles and did 4 programs (Anytime, Anywhere interpretitive was the 4th and last program!) on the same day.

duane

12-19-2002, 12:55 AM

adrian,
did you mean to post that last reply in this thread?

Hannahclear

12-19-2002, 08:09 AM

Gaela,

I'm not sure what you mean by your post, but what I meant was that her body is rounding, and she is not used to it, as she used to be more gangly. Thus, this will affect her 3/3s. I know not all more narrow skaters do the 3/3s, but from what I understand about physics and the mechanics of skating, the thinner the better. Of course, some skaters, like Onda and Harding are very muscular by nature and were able to deal with that. However, for Sarah, a very thin skater last year to be naturally rounding is going to make 3/3's a problem.

Punitive how?

Just for the record, I don't agree with this nonsense about 3/3s anyway, too many injuries. I think all skaters should be able to eat chocolate too :). However, I was trying to talk about the realities of the sport as I have heard about them.

adrianchew

12-19-2002, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by duane

adrian,
did you mean to post that last reply in this thread?

Yes I did - if it isn't obvious enough - puberty and growing up doesn't necessarily mean losing it all... if Yuka years later can still do her triples and skate beautifully, Sarah can too. ;)

Mokah

12-19-2002, 12:16 PM

I would like to see Sarah quit skating for now and have a life. Maybe do a few exhibitions but go out and have some fun. Her body isn't wrecked. She could come back after Harvard. Just hate to see her miss out on her youth. Unless skating IS life to Sarah. Then I hope we see her soon.

loveskating

12-19-2002, 12:37 PM

It would be fun seeing Sarah as she improves in some areas...I always so enjoy watching these kids grow up and mature.

But I agree with AA, Sarah skated the LP of her LIFE at SLC, skated her heart out, did something she had never done and few had done before, and gave everyone a huge treat... how could THAT ever be tarnished?

Whatever happens, the medal and the moment belongs to her...well, the moment belongs to everyone, I guess?

Just FYI, its IS hard for most tallish people to consistently land even the 3s, much less the 3/3s...its just a matter of physics...its also harder for them to spin, takes more strength to hold the center. Apparently, once a girl hits 5 feet 6 inches, its just harder.

CMc

12-19-2002, 02:57 PM

I think Kwan fans would find this situation familiar since Michelle had gone through this as well a few years back during the competitive season.

duane

12-19-2002, 03:35 PM

oops, sorry adrian. i hadnt read gaela's post, and now see that you were responding to that.

Alexeiskate

12-19-2002, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by adrianchew
Want a perfect example of a grown adult ladies skater that has triples and beautiful skating? Anyone that watched Hallmark should be able to guess easily! ;)

Yuka many years later still can do triple jumps, her skating is beautiful and she still has it in her to come out first at Hallmark

Yes, but Yuka's body type today is practically the same as it was it 94, so it's not too suprising that the triples that Yuka landed consistently back then are also consistent now (of course I'm sure Yuka still work hard to maintain them). The same goes with Kristi whose body type has remained relatively the same.

It's more difficult for someone whose body type has changed significantly to maintain the difficult triples. Oksana is a good example. Jenny Kirk might fall into this category but right now she seems to still be able to hit most of her triples.

AxelAnnie22

12-19-2002, 04:54 PM

IMHO - Sarah had a fully developed body for the last couple of years. Did y'all miss her FOSSE number when it first came out? I had to put my teeth back in my mouth! Couldn't believe that bod.

What Sarah is experiencing right now is, no doubt, the result of not being back in full training, and at her fighting weight. It will all come back, you just wait to see!

nits

12-19-2002, 09:06 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AxelAnnie22
[B][COLOR=indigo]IMHO - Sarah had a fully developed body for the last couple of years. Did y'all miss her FOSSE number when it first came out? I had to put my teeth back in my mouth! Couldn't believe that bod.

:lol: Just picturing that in my head. :D My grandmothers dentures popped out once and her dog chewed them. Lucky for you, your dog didn't get yours. :D

Gaela

12-20-2002, 03:16 PM

I guess I question the "thinner the better" philosophy. I'm not sure that it is necessarily better for skating--I can see why big boobs would get in the way for sure, as they do for ballet--but I wonder if the thin standard pertains to an aethestic desire as it does to skating ability--most women are conditioned to think thinner is better regardless of what they do.

I did think of the Japanese girls muscular legs when I posted above, but they are all so tiny anyhow, 'women's body' didn't seem to apply--but I agree that muscular legs and hips don't always get in the way--Tonya and Surya come to mind now.

I wonder if there was less emphasis on thin and more emphasis on 'muscular' would we have more three-three's?

Men are allowed to have different body types, when they grow they adjust with practice. Stocky short Elvis and long lean Ilia Kulik were both great jumpers!! Yet with women the baby ballerina image prevails, and I think it is rather repressive for a desire and hard on the girls who are naturally bigger and more shapley, but can still be very fit. Kat Witt comes to mind!!

Perhaps such concerns about weight and such are causing Sarah to reconsider her life ambitions, and be realistic about skating.

I hope she gets in better shape, and don't care whether or not she wins worlds--I'm sure she'll stay in the top six if she competes, and if everyone else considers her a has-been or one-time wonder, well, she's got a whole future awaiting her that is not dependent solely on her skating. While some skaters' moment of fame is over by 25, Sarah may have a lifetime of achievement ahead of her, not only limited to skating. That, and Olympic Champion, is pretty impressive to me regarldless of what she ways. Many great women are not skinny!!

missmarysgarden

12-20-2002, 04:02 PM

It's physics. A straight stick spins more rapidly and more tightly around its axis than one with "bum" on it. Period. It's the law of physics. Puberty for women puts "bumps" on their bodies, and creates a new athletic challenge.

All young women have to "re-learn" rotation, i.e., find a new center, change their timing, etc., even if they compensate for the "rounding" by holding their weight the same (i.e., losing mass). There is a learning curve involved. Compensation takes time. It is most likely why Sarah's rotation is short. She will have to jump harder, and initiate rotation earlier and with more impetus, just to keep even. It's not bashing. It's just reality.

rack

12-20-2002, 05:13 PM

It's funny though- when you think of the great lady jumpers from the past decade you think of Midori, Tonya, Irina, Sarah, Viktoria Volchkova, Onda- they're all either taller or more openly muscular than the baby ballerinas whose bodies, one would assume, are better suited for rapid rotations. In fact, the only two tiny body skaters I can think of who made names for themselves with their jumping are Tara and Michelle.

If anatomy were destiny, Serena Williams wouldn't be the number one tennis player in the world.

AxelAnnie22

12-20-2002, 06:15 PM

Rack - I think you are putting a dent in that physics theory!

missmarysgarden

12-21-2002, 01:11 PM

I think you missed the point. I didn't say that puberty ended a woman's career; I said that when a young woman goes through puberty, she has to relearn - which includes compensating for her changed center of gravity, and where LA turning is involved (spinning or twisting), needs more impetus, height, quickness in order to complete the same number of rotations in "x" time. Didn't say it couldn't be done. But some female athletes do not make the transition - for a variety of reasons. One, if they were operating at their "peak" prior to puberty, they find it more difficult.

Last time I looked, there wasn't much spinning or twisting in tennis;)

Gaela

12-21-2002, 02:39 PM

Okay I understand that the technique has to be relearned; as it does for a guy--as he gains height, he has to adjust. I've heard it is easier for short guys to handle the jumps.

However, the fact that the great lady jumpers tend to be muscular may suggest that building muscle is an asset to a women skater who is going through puberty--trying to be as thin as possible may not be the best strategy.

missmarysgarden

12-23-2002, 09:24 AM

You are right, Gaela - there are a number of factors involved. And the ratio of explosive muscle mass (vs for example over bulk) to total body weight is predictive of the ability to "gain altitude" (jump high) is a critical one. For example, gymnasts are discouraged from some kinds of cross-training - running, for example. Most of what gymnasts do requires sprinting, and sprinting to develop maximum linear velocity is a major part of training - for both vault and tumbling. Then quickness in order to transfer the angle of velocity with the least amount of loss of momentum is the next factor. Then quickness in reducing the distance from the outermost point of mass to the center - this is the impetus for the rotation and determines the speed at which the body rotates. The equation of completion is "altitude to speed" - the higher you go, the more time you have to complete x rotations. "Anything" that "sticks out " is "drag", and slows down the rotation. So I would say that the best formula is "strong, quick and slim".

missmarysgarden

12-23-2002, 09:32 AM

Oh, one more thing. "Quickness" is determined by the speed of synapse response - the speed at which a message goes from the brain to the muscle. It is a hard-wired factor. This speed is on a continuum from sluggish to lightning fast. Athletes can train improve their "reaction time" through training, in the respect that they can work to eliminate "thought steps" (reducing interference by improving concentration, and make a skill more "automatic" through repitition of correct movement, but basically, the speed of the synapse response stays the same - you can work around it, but you can't change it.

Synapse response is often the great divider between the good and the great in all dynamic sport. It takes a quick synapse to "snap" off the floor in a jump (you are telling the muscle "contract then extend" at lightning speed in order to have a high jump or a fast rotation. Maximizing what you have through perfecting technique can improve the success rate - but eventually you will have to deal with what you were born with - limitations as well as gifts!

NorthernLite

12-23-2002, 11:12 AM

Wow, I just saw Sarah in person a few weeks ago. I somehow missed what people on the Net are snarking about. From the descriptions and the intensity of the discussion, she's evidently the size of a Macy's Parade balloon. In fact, from what I understand, she's so *fat*, it's a wonder she can even stand up in the K & C without a crane helping her. Hey, are you sure it was the Zamboni, and not Big Fat Sarah that caused that crack in the ice @ the Crest thing. :P :roll: