Eldredge, USFSA at odds

[Amy Lynn]

Eldredge, USFSA at odds
Olympian won't compete for 7th U.S. skate title

Philip Hersh
Chicago Tribune
December 14, 2002
(Must be registered to read):
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/printedition/chi-0212140192dec14,1,1400367.story


AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- Todd Eldredge, one of the most decorated and popular figure skaters in U.S. history, has decided to sever all competitive and promotional ties with the U.S. Figure Skating Association in a dispute with the organization's management.

"I definitely think I was lied to by the leadership of the organization," Eldredge said Friday. "I will have nothing more to do with USFSA events because I have too many bad feelings with these people."

Eldredge, a two-time Olympian and six-time U.S. champion, has been upset by the USFSA's decision to withdraw a contractual offer to him. He thinks the USFSA took that action because he has chosen to skate with the Stars on Ice tour rather than Champions on Ice, which paid the USFSA $500,000 in 2002 as a form of sanctioning fee.

[QB]

..a small correction;) ... Todd is a 3 time Olympian.
Another interesting quote:
"Eldredge's attorney, Dean Groulx, said the skater might file a restraint-of-trade suit against the USFSA."

Should be an interesting interview with Peter Carruthers today on ABC(2-4)! 8O

[manleywoman]

I have to call BS on this one.

Todd, and everybody, knows that Stars on Ice is not sanctioned by the USFSA, and that once you join the tour, you're basically declaring yourself a professional. So for him to get upset that the USFSA is having issues with his Stars on Ice connections is redicluous. He knew full well that americans can't join the SOI tour and stay eligible.

[QB]

As has been well publicized-since he was on track to skate Nationals- Todd remains as eligible as he has always been. Pardon the pun ;)

[Louis]

Why should skating with Stars on Ice cost a U.S. skater his eligibility, but not a Russian skater his eligibility? This whole business of eligibility running through federations has to stop. The USFSA should have NO CONTROL over anything that is OK by the ISU. They should not be able to restrict skaters from appearing in shows televised on networks other than ABC (which they have done in the past), nor should be able to tell skaters which tours are and are not OK. I bet they would have no problem with Todd skating on Winter COI even though it would conflict with an eligible skater.

The USFSA has every right to ask Eldredge to sign an exclusivity agreement in order to appear in their pro-ams, but it is completely wrong to tell Todd that he is going to lose his eligibility over a TOUR or a SHOW that is completely fine with the ISU, and in fact includes skaters from other countries who are keeping their eligibility. I hope Todd does go forth with a lawsuit. It's about time.

[Artistic Skaters]

Originally posted by manleywoman
He knew full well that americans can't join the SOI tour and stay eligible.
SOI doesn't need to be sanctioned by the USFSA as long as there is a skater contractual agreement in place approved by the USFSA.

My take is that it sounds more like someone is more interested in making $$$ anyway rather than staying in eligible skating. Nothing wrong with that, but no need to be bitter unless the USFSA actually reneged on a valid contractual agreement.

[karina1974]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Louis
They should not be able to restrict skaters from appearing in shows televised on networks other than ABC (which they have done in the past)

Gee, what are they going to do with Sarah? I just watched her on ABC, and she is also appearing tonight on NBC. I guess the fact that she has a certain title that Todd lacks makes it OK.

The USFSA has every right to ask Eldredge to sign an exclusivity agreement in order to appear in their pro-ams, but it is completely wrong to tell Todd that he is going to lose his eligibility over a TOUR or a SHOW that is completely fine with the ISU, and in fact includes skaters from other countries who are keeping their eligibility. I hope Todd does go forth with a lawsuit. It's about time.

There's a simple way out of all this mess. Either skating goes back to the old "amateur" days, when skaters known to accept money for any performances, or who skate in any professional competitions, other than a pro-am, lose the right to skate in ALL ISU events. The ISU made the eligibility rules, the federations and the skaters lived by them, and that was that. There was a short tour after Worlds, but it wasn't the mega-city one that COI is today. The skaters still had plenty of time to relax before working on their programs for the next season.

Or, they should completely erase the line between pros and eligibles. Most of the pros wouldn't want to go back to ISU-rule events anyway, so there wouldn't be any worry over "pros" taking team spots away from the "eligible" skaters. And Nicole Bobek proved vivdly in 1996 how unwise it is to try to tour and prepare for Nationals and Worlds at the same time (with an injury, no less), so I doubt there would be many skaters stupid enough to try it.

[IgglesII]

Originally posted by manleywoman
He knew full well that americans can't join the SOI tour and stay eligible.

Which itself is BS. The fact that they allow Tom Collins to buy an exclusive sanction for his tour is something that I myself would love to see a good attorney attack.

[manleywoman]

Originally posted by IgglesII
Which itself is BS. The fact that they allow Tom Collins to buy an exclusive sanction for his tour is something that I myself would love to see a good attorney attack.

Can't say I disagree with that either!

[HSF]

My take on the Todd/USFSA situation is that Todd is still sanctioned to skate at Nationals. I think Todd is doing some "double speak"--and I am a huge Todd fan.

Todd did not say he was "ineligible for Nationals"--he said he felt that skating as an eligible without the "support" of the USFSA would not be worth it.

The "support" of the USFSA must mean a contractual agreement to be classified as a "headliner" and receive payment for his efforts. That is not the same as being declared "ineligible."

I guess the jury is still out . . .

HSF

[pilgrimsoul]

I think it's gutsy of Todd to call the USFSA on its policy on this issue. For a long time, I've wondered why the USFSA would sanction one US tour, but not the other. This appears to me a conflict of interest, not to mention monopolistic. It would not surprise me if Todd decided to file a lawsuit to change this policy, and it would surprise me even less if a judge agreed with him. I wonder if this matter has the potential to develop into a class action suit on behalf of skaters who don't want to be told who they can and can't skate for anymore in their own country by a governing body that exerts entirely too much control over the athletes' ability to earn a living at their craft.

[TAF2984]

Yup I also hope Todd goes through with this suit. It's an unfair and dumb rule. I definitely understand what you are saying too HSF. I wonder if others picked that up.

[adrianchew]

Yes - that's the evils of opening up opportunities to eligible skaters and having the same organization that is suppose to promote the wellbeing of the sport controlling the contractual decisions as well... clearly we have a sticky conflict of interest situation.

I have about almost as little faith that the USFSA is unbiased as I have in the ISU being unbiased. One thing I do know - Todd fans will continue to go to those events he's at (I saw them today, and I suspect I will see them anytime I go to an event he skates at).

Someday if they decide to mess with Michelle too and she decides to go pro - her fans will start going to shows and competitions she's at too! And whenever the USFSA burns some skater, a whole bunch of fans of that skater turns against the USFSA. :twisted:

[TAF2984]

Well the chances of Mk going pro anytime soon are close to zero. The chances of them messing with her, who probably is the top headliner of the entire sport, is also close to zero so that conflict probably will never arise. They definitely need to work this out though. It would have been great to see Todd skate at nationals. I never quite understood why he would even declare himself retired from am competition after the OG anyways especially with worlds here in US and knowing how he likes competition. I knew he would consider it even when he said he was retiring from it.

[Halo girl]

Originally posted by Artistic Skaters

My take is that it sounds more like someone is more interested in making $$$ anyway rather than staying in eligible skating. Nothing wrong with that, but no need to be bitter unless the USFSA actually reneged on a valid contractual agreement.

I tend to agree, the key is whether or not a contact was in place. Todd mentioned an "agreement" in which the USFSA says they did not have, so it's hard for us to know what to believe.

I'm a fan of Todd's but in reality, he's been out of the eligible world since 98 when he declared he needed time off. For two years, he basically lived the "pro" life without calling himself a pro, then for the sole sake of the Olympics, threw himself back into eligible competition
The only reason he kept his elgibility was to go for another Olympics, which we all know didn't go well. Still, Todd stated over and over his motivations for the past four years and he was ready to move on. I was suprised when earlier this year he decided to remain eligible after all. Exactly what is his motivation behind this if he does not plan to actually skate as an elgible?

Todd's without a doubt a great skater, but I think he's made a poor business decision. The USFSA basically created the pro-ams back in 98 as a way to keep skaters like he and Michelle from turning pro. Yes, that was for the benefit of having big names for promotion, but also, it did give Todd another shot at the Olympics. How long should the USFSA allow him to sit on the fence? If it were up to Todd, I could imagine him being 90 and still saying "give me four more years and I'll have my best Olympic performance". That time has past and he's got a pretty solid future with SOI, it was time to move on months ago. I can understand not wanting to turn pro because frankly, other than SOI there really aren't many opportunties, but for one reason they aren't there are because people like him wanted to have their cake and eat it to. For him to now complain about any treatment the USFSA has given him, UNLESS there was a valid contract, is wrong because the USFSA has helped him in the last few years as well.

Officially, Todd hasn't skated in an unsactioned event, so personally, I won't be surprised if he changes his mind again. However, personally, I think at this point in the game, he's much more needed in the pro ranks than to remain eligibile.

As for the deal with COI and the USFSA, yes that is biased, but it's not a secret that in this day and age there isn't much in the sport that isn't biased. I really don't see that changing very much from here on out.

[Charis]

"For two years, he basically lived the "pro" life without calling himself a pro, then for the sole sake of the Olympics, threw himself back into eligible competition
The only reason he kept his elgibility was to go for another Olympics..."

What's wrong with that? In fact, with skating becoming more and more physically grueling, it makes sense. It also gives other skaters a chance to be seen and/or move up in the ranks. I doubt Weiss would have won his two national titles, if Todd had been there.

[skatorade]

I'm totally with Todd on this one. Yes, he is looking out for his own interests - every skater has to. There is no organization independent of the USFSA or ISU that represents their interests. I don't see anything inherently wrong with a skater wanting the freedom to choose what shows and competitions they participate in. As long as the Federations and ISU control eligibility and they also have contracts with tours, sponsors and TV networks, skaters will get screwed. The USFSA can be completely arbitrary. It's unfair that existing contracts affect how the USFSA treats skaters. If the USFSA and ISU want to put their business interests ahead of skaters interests, then skaters should be free of their eligibility restrictions. I find the entire system to be out of whack - top to bottom. It's absurd to have an "official" tour and have the same organization that made the deal deciding whether to give permission to do other tours. I'm sure none of this would be an issue if Todd had stayed with COI. It's pretty sickening that the sport is corrupted by Feds and a governing body with no integrity and no accountability. Forget the lawsuit against the USFSA, I'm thinking skaters need to sue for the right to skate at the Olympics without having to deal with either their Fed or the ISU.

[lBrokenAnkle]

But, the USFSA did give Todd the sanction to skate SOI and retain his eligibility. Whether you think the USFSA having this right is fair or not, he asked and it was granted. And although the interview this evening suggested that the USFSA wasn't going to allow Todd to skate at Nationals, which is within their rights as he did not skate GP or go through the regionals/sections path, apparently they would allow his to skate at Nationals.

What they did and what Todd is angry about, according to the article, is that the USFSA was offered him a lucrative contract and then recinded that offer. According to the article, Todd and his lawyer say they were offered the contract in June, Todd announced his 6 year SOI contract shortly after the Olympics in February. So it seems like they were OK with it, then I guess all of the sudden they withdrew the offer. Now, the article did not say that Todd had signed the contract, can we assume he had not signed it by Sept, when it was apparently abruptly withdrawn?

I think Todd is probably right when he indicates that withdrawl of the contract means withdraw of support, but it does still sound like he coudl skate at Nationals if he chose to. I guess what I am gettng at is that there may be more to this story. Why did the USFSA withdraw the offer? Todd flat out said it is because he chose SOI, but that doesn't explain why he received the sanction and why the USFSA was willing to give him a contract in June, 4 months after they knew he was with SOI?

Laura

[skatorade]

The way it looks to me is that the contract issue is the USFSA's way of getting around out and out not granting him a personal sanction to skate with SOI. They are not (totally) stupid. Blatantly not giving him the sanction would have been to overt and too risky. Revoking their contract offer is the "punishment" they think they can get away with. I have no doubt that if he were still with COI, he would still be contracted with the USFSA. They get too much money from COI to not have some sort of leverage to try to hold skaters to the COI tour. If they gave out personal sanctions and made contracts with those skaters touring with a competition tour, then COI would balk. COI expects that in return for their sponsorship of the USFSA, they get first dibs on US skaters. If the USFSA makes it too easy for skaters to tour elsewhere without any affect on their relationship with the USFSA, then what does COI get out of their deal with the USFSA? I'm sure in the months since Todd's decision to skate with SOI, the USFSA has been getting pressure from the folks at COI.

Because of the sanction being granted, I would think it would be much harder for Todd to win a lawsuit strictly on the basis of the contract offer being rescinded. Common sense tells me that his skating with SOI is the reason, but in court I think the USFSA could counter that with "legitimate" reasons. I do think a lawsuit could be won against the USFSA but I don't know that Todd is the right plaintiff. At least not yet. Does anyone know if sanctioning for SOI is a season by season thing or if it is for life? If it is season by season and Todd did not seek one next year, thus losing eligibility, a lawsuit under those circumstances would be very interesting. I mean, if a skater can sign on with COI because they have an existing sponsorship agreement with the USFSA and not risk their eligibility, it would seem to me that a case could be made that a skater should have the right to choose a different tour/sponsor and not be punished by losing eligibility.

[loveskating]

"I can understand not wanting to turn pro because frankly, other than SOI there really aren't many opportunties, but for one reason they aren't there are because people like him wanted to have their cake and eat it to. For him to now complain about any treatment the USFSA has given him, UNLESS there was a valid contract, is wrong because the USFSA has helped him in the last few years as well."

This I agree with, and would add that when folks try to have their cake and eat it too, things always get very messy somewhere along the line...because inherently, its unfair and inherently it does not work. Fairness is not some abstract concept, its the "oil" that ensures the full working to potential of any social machine.

I am sorry of Todd is having problems however. He dealt with the past 4 years rather graciously, I thought...no sour grapes whatsoever.

[Mazurka Girl]

"This isn't just about money," Eldredge said, adding that he turned down $25,000 to do an exhibition at the Friday event. "This is about whether the USFSA leadership is working for the athletes or for itself."
The USFSA is supposed to be working for the betterment of eligible figure skating through their federation. The athletes are the biggest part of that, but not the only part. That also includes promoting elite level qualifying skaters who want to skate qualifying events besides Nationals, & Todd's been sitting on the fence about his plans in that area for awhile now. Call me disillusioned when people like Todd make statements that a volunteer organization isn't working hard enough for him in regard to his personal commercial making endeavors. :roll:

Greed has entered the picture for both the athletes & the USFSA. Although at least for their part the USFSA will be using $$$ from their ventures to help the athletes & the federation. USFSA funds have helped many skaters during the earlier years of their training, & I'm sure that included Todd. Todd has had plenty of opportunities through the USFSA, & frankly it doesn't sound like he's very interested in continuing in the eligible ranks.

Compare Todd's "I'm severing all ties over a money making deal" remarks with skaters like Paul Wylie, who have had their problems in the past with the USFSA, but now do a great deal of volunteering & mentoring within the organization. It seems to me the difference between the two point of views & what they want to accomplish within the organization is pretty clear.

[cafelife]

I agree with those who believe the lawsuit would have to revolve around whether or not there was a contract in place. If verbal agreements are common between skaters/agents and the USFSA, or if they typically take many months to sign, then maybe Todd's verbal understanding would be seen as having some viability.

If Todd was misled or "lied to", I can see why he would feel like cutting all ties, at least for the moment. This is unfortunate for tv ratings for nationals, since Todd is one of the few skaters with a huge fan base who will be competing this year.

[alfongsucks]

Todd really should hang it up , actually he should have bagged it after his first olympics. I mean really what is the point? He has proven he can not do the job, he barely can skate clean with out a quad, at this point, he would be in the running only for a podium spot in the womens competition, and even that is not so sure. I agree that Todd was basically a pro for a few years till he came back to take another Olympic spot. He sure did not maximize on his oportunities. I think that Todd going pro is a smart move for him, he has to realize that he is so far over the hill it is not funny, at least this way, he will make some more cash out of it. What bothers me is that in the last olympics, he took a spot away, and there was clearly no shot of an olympic medal........ what is sad is that there is another skater out there who needs the exposure and did not get it........... I just wish that skaters would be judged on what they do rather then what they did. Todd is done, Mike should be done.:x

[AxelAnnie22]

Originally posted by TAF2984
Well the chances of Mk going pro anytime soon are close to zero. The chances of them messing with her, who probably is the top headliner of the entire sport, is also close to zero so that conflict probably will never arise. They definitely need to work this out though. It would have been great to see Todd skate at nationals. I never quite understood why he would even declare himself retired from am competition after the OG anyways especially with worlds here in US and knowing how he likes competition. I knew he would consider it even when he said he was retiring from it. I wouldn't be so quick with your assertions. Although Michelle is THE figure skater of the decade, to be sure, that will change. The winds of favorite are quite fickle. Although she will always be a huge draw (just as Dorthy is), she (and all skaters, really) are only as good as their last title. If/When Michelle stops winning NATS, and doesn't win Worlds, I hope (and think) she will turn pro. Just as a second loss at the OLYS did not help her, losses as Worlds and NATS will not add to her fame. I am always in favor if exiting while you are on top.

And yea for Todd. I like what he is doing. There is way too much of an incestuous relationship between ABC/Disney/USFSA/COI. It colors a lot of things (like who subs in for a skater at a GP event....which skates are shown.....who gets a fluff piece, etc. I think it courageous of Todd to step forward. And, I don't doubt for a second that the USFSA pulled his contract. Perhaps we will see some reform. That would be refreshing.

[Mazurka Girl]

I wouldn't call it courageous, but I would call it instead rather self serving. Sorry, but I truly don't get the feeling he's doing it to help all the USFSA athletes. Otherwise he would engage in seeking change through the organization instead of announcing his point of no return on national television when so much of the public doesn't even know about the workings of the USFSA & could probably care less.


SL - and that's just my opinion ;) :roll:

[loveskating]

Well, if the USFSA withdrew a contract with Todd because he signed with SOI, what does that mean? They don't like SOI or something? If not, why not? Most of us like SOI! The article implies its because they don't get a cut of the SOI money?

In these types of disputes, I always tend to side with the skater...I realize that the organizations, and the business aspect, is very important, and one has to be reasonable, but it ALL rides on the skaters, they are the ones who deliver the goods, the skating, so I just tend to side with them is all.

Having said that, I'm glad Todd is going pro...its really really time.

[lilwish]

It seems to me that the usfsa and Tom Collins (COI) have a relationship and the usfsa usually requires skaters to skate with COI if they are going to stay eligible. From what I can tell, Todd and the usfsa came to an agreement that Stars on Ice would pay a sanction fee to the usfss so Todd could skate with SOI instead of COI and remain eligible. There appears to have been a contract to that effect that the reporters have seen. The usfsa allowed Todd to skate in SOI based upon this contract and appeared at several usfsa events to promote the usfsa and after a few of these events when Todd announced his intentions to attend Nationals and hopefully Worlds that the usfsa withdrew what they are now calling the "offer" not contract. If this is the case, Todd has every right to be very angry. In this situation I would take Todd's word for it. He has been a good soldier for the usfsa for many, many years. he has always done what they wanted and without complaint. It seems that the agreements between the usfsa, Tom Collins and Disney and the money involved are coloring the way that the usfsa behaves toward the very people who are providing the opportunity for the money to come, the skaters, and particularly the skaters who are well known. I think the whole thing stinks. I'm glad he is suing them and I hope he wins.

[JD]

As one legal beagle around here.. if he was in Canada, with the same rules as the USFSA...he could happily take advantage of the Competition Act.....

not to mention the restraints against business interests......I hope he fights them, I do believe he would win...

Mind you, I imagine then COI would have a cross-claim against the USFSA...who in their infinite wisdom actually agreed to an exclusivity clause...

all this being said, would love to see the contract....where is smokinggun.com when you need them?????:D

[Mazurka Girl]

The Todd camp is probably not sharing that info because they don't have a copy of contract that's been signed & executed.

[missmarysgarden]

I'm sort of new to this spot - so maybe I don't quite understand the rules. Is it OK for someone to post here with the name of "Alfongsucks"?

And what do you have against Al??

[Mazurka Girl]

That sounds like a question for another topic & forum.

[nigella]

Originally posted by loveskating


In these types of disputes, I always tend to side with the skater...I realize that the organizations, and the business aspect, is very important, and one has to be reasonable, but it ALL rides on the skaters






ITA. I think that it sounds like Todd has a valid grievance.

[lilwish]

Several articles have said that the reporters have seen the contract.

[Mazurka Girl]

Seeing a contract & seeing a signed/executed contract can be two different things. If the contract had been signed & executed, then Todd would have a breach of contract lawsuit if there was a violation but that's not the legal action he has threatened.

[Chabert]

Originally posted by Mazurka Girl
If the contract had been signed & executed, then Todd would have a breach of contract lawsuit if there was a violation but that's not the legal action he has threatened.



Although breach of contract wasn't mentioned in that article, it doesn't necessarily mean it's not an option that is available to Todd.

[Mazurka Girl]

Great, I'll be awaiting his breach of contract lawsuit to maintain my interest in the whole yawning affair. Of course, it could be a very long wait considering the circumstances. :!:

[Michigansk8er]

Bravo to Todd! Good for him for speaking out. I also can't help but wonder if the reason (at least it appeared this way) that the USFSA didn't offer more help to Ina with the drug issue is because she too jumped ship, so to speak, and joined SOI. Just a thought..........

I'm currently reading "Frozen Assets" and boy does this book shed a lot of light on this entire thing. If you don't have a copy, pick one up.

[grondahl]

Originally posted by Mazurka Girl
Great, I'll be awaiting his breach of contract lawsuit to maintain my interest in the whole yawning affair.



LOL, if this affair is so "yawning" to you, why did you take the time to post so many replys on this thread? ;)

[Mazurka Girl]

Because the USFSA's television contracts are up soon, & I don't want to see them waste hundreds of thousands of dollars contributing to a significant part of Todd's annual income when he's no longer really interested in eligible competition & mainly wants a soapbox for his own personal financial gain. USFSA needs to watch their bottom line considering the future financial uncertainties with the TV contracts & make sure money is directed to help the truly eligible skaters in accordance with the org's objectives. Just as it was to Todd during his earlier days.

BTW, the yawning part comes into play when people simply want to complain yet don't want to resolve the issue. If he has legal recourse, he should go for it & I'm sure we'll all hear the outcome. Otherwise, he certainly has the option to go find some non-USFSA skating opportunities on his own, since he doesn't think the USFSA is working hard for him. Of course they usually charge for those services elsewhere. :twisted:

[alfongsucks]

Todd is dull.......... he is not going to bring in a lot of money......... at least when he was trying quads, it was interesting to see if he would at least attempt it, and would he finally make one [usually no} and if he did not make it , would the judges still award him. Don't get me wrong, he did a lot for skating, but skating did a lot for him. He sure has a better car then I do , so he must be doing something right, but still he is not competitive with anything except now the women and even now they have a quad, so he is trying to make a stink.

[irene2020]

If USFSA wants to control this and that, it's ok - BUT - they should not be the governing body for US amateur skating and they should give up all of the rights as to who can go to world or the Olympics.

The same should apply to ISU, not just USFSA.

So, what is it now? You can only compete at the world or Olympics (with USFSA approval and selection) if you skate in ice shows or appears on TV that allow USFSA to get a financial cut??

!!NO!!! THIS IS COMPLETELY AGAINST THE OLYMPIC SIPIRT :oops: :oops: :oops:

USFSA is a professional organization. Oh but unfortunately, this is happening in basketball and hockey now? Mum... Mum.... Mum....

And micelle kwan should give the sullivan award back to the deserving amateur athelets struggling full-time in college or at work. No, forget this one. Delete delete delete.

But I think it's time for Todd to turn pro now.

[Skatewind]

"So, what is it now? You can only compete at the world or Olympics (with USFSA approval and selection) if you skate in ice shows or appears on TV that allow USFSA to get a financial cut??"

irene2020, I'm wondering if you or some of the others here have read the USFSA press release?

http://www.usfsa.org/news/2002-03/toddstory.htm

It says:

"The USFSA is surprised to hear of Todd Eldredge's decision not to compete at the 2003 State Farm U.S. Championships next month in Dallas. Late this summer, the USFSA granted a special exception that allowed Todd to retain his Olympic-eligible status while participating in non-sanctioned events and tours."

[irene2020]

skatewind, thanks for the link. :)


Interesting turn of events.

Either USFSA is lying or Todd is.

Mum.... Why would Todd lie about this? What does he gain by making these false accusations against USFSA before turning pro?

Mum... Why would USFSA lie about this? IF what Todd's accusation is true, then USFSA may lie to protect its image.

Mum... mum.... mum... Ok, let's see what the court says. But I still think there is something fishy about USFSA, especially the way they treat Ina. I can't help thinking what Michigansk8er suggests - about ina joining SOI.

[blue111moon]

I don't think ANTONE's said they're definately going to court over this, just that Todd or his lawyer was thinking about filing a suit. But thinking doesn't mean doing.

USFSA's eligibility rules are stated in their rulebook. Ina's case is separate from that issue. Her banning came from the IOC and WAS upheld by the international appeals court so that subject is closed.

The way I read the rules, USFSAS was already bending over backward for Todd, something they haven't done with any other skater. If he didn't like it or wanted more, tough.

Also USFSA is not a professional organization. 95% of the Board of governors and 100% of the Governing Body delegates are VOLUNTEERS who get nothing from the work they do on the Association's behalf. Ask yourself what these people stand to gain from a contract issue with Todd. He's the one making money off the deal. And a large percentage of the USFSA Board of Directors members are lawyers themselves. They know what they're doing when it comes to contracts. They also know better than to comment on suits that haven't been filed.

[Charis]

The USFSA should have fought for Ina the same way the Russian federation fought for Bereznaya after she accidentally :roll: took some cold medication.

I'm inclined to believe Todd's story. He seems like a person of good character. What would he gain by publicly taking on the powerful USFSA? He must have been treated very unfairly, and felt like he had nothing to lose.

[Skatewind]

"Mum.... Why would Todd lie about this? What does he gain by making these false accusations against USFSA before turning pro?

Mum... Why would USFSA lie about this? IF what Todd's accusation is true, then USFSA may lie to protect its image."

IMHO, it's not a question of whether anyone is lying or not but whether anyone is paying attention to the specifics of both parties have said. This is the third page & people are still questioning why the USFSA has forbidden Todd to skate at Nationals. When the reality is that Todd has not been restricted, it's HIS choice. When I ask myself why Todd would choose not to skate at Nationals based on his interviews, the answer I come up with is it's because he seems to only want to do it if there is significant financial benefit for him in it via USFSA contracts or whatever. So if that's the case ITA agree with blue111moon.

[adrianchew]

Everyone's missing the key problem that's been said before... the USFSA is in a "conflict of interest" situation. If there are pressures from a major sponsor and supporter (ie. Tom Collins), how does the USFSA respond to such pressures... the key to me is to ask whether a third party with considerable influence factored into the USFSA's actions and decisions to withdraw an offer previously made.

[Charis]

I was under the impression that the USFSA was supposed to protect the interests of American athletes not sponsors and promoters. :roll:

We all know that figure skating has a major credability problem. Todd is a sentimental favorite and his presence at Nationals would no doubt increase ratings and ticket sales. So he probably felt justified in asking for a "deal" if that's in fact what happened.

[blue111moon]

USFSA exists to protect the interests of ALL of its members, not just a select few whose names are recognized by the general public. The sanction fee that Collins and COI pay to USFSA respresents roughly the same amount that indivudual clubs and skaters pay for their local shows and guest skaters. EVERY show that includes USFSA skaters must have a sanction to keep those skaters eligible. It's to protect all skaters from being abused by unscrupulous promoters and/or professionals. COI pays more in the long run because they produce more shows and include more skaters than any other production and part of the sanction fee includes a percentage of the gate receipts. Tom and Harrison Collins were also the ones who way back when were willing to work with USFSA to set up a show and a schedule which would allow US skaters to retain their amateur status while still earning money - for themselves!!!! - within ISU restrictions. Todd was one of the people who benefitted from that situation then. I'm sure that the money he earned from touring in those early days was the major factor that allowed him to keep training as long as he did.

SOI is unsanctioned because they never wanted to ask for - and pay for - a sanction before, until they started running short of big name pros to draw paying customers with. Even now, it is individual skaters requesting sanctions, not the show itself. SOI was set up for and by professional skaters; its schedule alone is set up in direct conflict with the elgible competition season, which was deliberately done to capitalize on the publicity that surrounds competitive events - events which gave the Name Skaters their fame in the first place.

SOI wants to run their own show, their way. Fine. They're entitled to do that. But it is not up to USFSA to protect the interests - financial or otherwise - of skaters who willingly choose to join them. SOI has done squat for USFSA. Why should they get special consideration now?

The company I work for has a clause in our contract that says that if we choose to retire with pension benefits, we are prohibitted from working for a competitor for a period of six months following the last day of employment. It's called protecting the company's investment. If you don't like that idea, fine, then go work someplace else. Which sounds a lot like the situation between Todd and the USFSA.

[HSF]

I guess what confuses me about this situation is the fact that Todd says the USFSA offered him a contract in June. I have to assume he did not accept that offer at that time.

If he didn’t accept the offer, the USFSA had every right to take the monies they had budgeted to pay Todd and use them elsewhere. The USFSA IS a business and as such can not cater to the whims of a skater. Perhaps the monies went to Weiss and Gobel for their participation in advertsing promos for Nationals. Who knows where it went . . . your guess is as good as mine.

If Todd did not accept the offer when it was given, he has no right to cry “foul play” later. Welcome to the business world, Todd.

HSF

[missmarysgarden]

I agree with you, Adrien. The point is one of Conflict of Interest. There may or my not be a question of legal liability if USFSA has interfered with Todd's career in a way that damages him in a $$$ way. I do wish that professional sports foundations/organizations/non-profits - would act "ethically" - but even it is not always enough to prove that organizational behaviour is unethical; it must also be illegal if there is going to be a reasonable cause for legal action.

[nigella]

Originally posted by adrianchew
Everyone's missing the key problem that's been said before... the USFSA is in a "conflict of interest" situation. If there are pressures from a major sponsor and supporter (ie. Tom Collins), how does the USFSA respond to such pressures... the key to me is to ask whether a third party with considerable influence factored into the USFSA's actions and decisions to withdraw an offer previously made.



Adrian - ITA. The "conflict of interest" part seems to have been lost on many here. IMO this conflict is the cause for Todd's grievances with the USFSA.

[irene2020]

I agree with you also, Adrian. That was my original thought and then I got distracted.

In addition to your point, I also think that it is important that contract needs to be respected - whether there is 3rd party pressure or not. We can't just withdraw or change contract or even formal verbal offer as we wish. This is especially bad if a big organization or an authority does it to a small potatoe. :(