Does anyone know how coaches are paid?

[joyjoy]

I am curious about the salaries of coaches. I assume there are different salaries for the top ones as opposed to the not so popular ones. Do coaches get paid a salary? By competition? Both? Do they get a portion of the athletes winnings? Thanks. Any information will be helpful! :)

[Lee]

Coaches get paid mostly on a per-lesson basis by the individual students (or their parents). Clubs will pay coaches for offering group lessons such as learn-to-skate programs. Some clubs offer coaches monthly 'retainers' to keep them on their staff, and other clubs hire a coach to act as a club or program administrator to take of the paperwork/organizational duties.

Some coaches of some very elite skaters have been known to have 'percentage of earnings' deals with their skaters, but that is more the exception than the rule, considering there are far more non-elite skaters who will never earn anything other than their own coaching fees.

It's very difficult for coaches to earn a living from coaching -- most only coach a few hours a week and while they earn a pretty decent hourly wage, the grand total per week doesn't add up to much if you only have about 10 hours of lesson time.

[Mazurka Girl]

Originally posted by Lee
It's very difficult for coaches to earn a living from coaching -- most only coach a few hours a week and while they earn a pretty decent hourly wage, the grand total per week doesn't add up to much if you only have about 10 hours of lesson time.
I don't think this is real accurate for a lot of metropolitan areas. In our area, for example, experienced coaches are charging $75 - $100+ per hr fees & have access to many different rinks where they can obtain teaching privileges & teach much more than 10 hrs per week. At those rates, even 10 hrs a week = 40K per year by the time you add in test & competition fees; & their main overhead is a $60 liability insurance policy, club & PSA membership fees ($200) & if they have to pay their own health insurance. Since they are independent contractors, most of their expenses are deductible (travel, training, even all or at least a percentage of their skates). Plus, rinks with a number of national & international competitors, as well as most municipal rinks, have a lot of daytime ice where they can teach. I would be surprised if many coaches were not making a very decent living from coaching.

There are coaches who choose to only work 10 hrs per week due to family arrangements or whatever. And I'm sure there are places where the ice is very limited. But for the most part if they really want to make a profession of it, the opportunities are there & if they are reputable with a good work ethic, they can indeed make a very good living from it.

[Lee]

Most coaches in Canada are in rural areas where there might only be 10 hours a week of ice, some of that dedicated to group lessons. Coaches in Canada are paid considerably less than in the US. Out of the 4000 or so coaches here, I doubt there are many who earn $40K/year. Average hourly rate for a coach in rural Canada is $28-32/hour. I don't know many people who can live on $1200 month, before taxes.

[kayskate]

I have also heard from other skaters (not elites, just recreational or test stream competitors) that coaches charge time and a half for competitions. They also have all of their expenses paid by students (or their families) who attend the competition. This is supposedly b/c if the coach is away at a competition s/he has to cancel his regular lesson appts at home.

Coaches I know also teach at more than one rink, so they have clients in different places. Maybe they can only get 10 hrs at one rink, but they get another 10 elsewhere.

Some coaches also charge to choreograph routines for tests and competitions. They may also charge to cut music or for consultation time about various issues that are important for competitive skaters.

Kay

[SkateGuard]

Yes, more rinks means more ice time...but many of the rinks have their freestyle ice at the same time (early am to about 3:30 pm, with a break for lunchtime public and rat hockey). The evenings are filled with learn-to-skate classes and hockey. Coaches who travel often sacrifice the time they could teach a lesson or two to travel between rinks. (The benefit is a greater number of students. Coaches often stay a half-day at one rink, then travel during lunch to another.)

Also, most skaters at a rink do attend school full time, so it is much harder to find a student who will take a lesson during the day (9am-2pm). Usually it's a student who is home schooled or an adult who can come at those times (stay-at-home mom, 2nd shift worker, telecommuter, etc). The summer is a different story, obviously, but with vacations, student who take summers off, etc., the number of students per week can diminish.

I think coaches individually set up how much they can make by coaching. But it does take work to set up a solid clientele and maximize the area's ice times to make a decent living.

Erin

[kayskate]

Originally posted by SkateGuard
The summer is a different story, obviously, but with vacations, student who take summers off, etc., the number of students per week can diminish.


My former coach had so much business from competing kids during the summer, he actually reduced the time he spent w/ me. He came out and told me I can only give you x minutes/wk. He had his priorities, for which I do not blame him. He is a young coach trying to earn a living and build his career. I think a lot of coaches plan for a big boom of income during summertime.

Kay

[RZambo]

Mazurka Girl has it exactly right. The fact is that coaches can sustain a very comfortable lifestyle with considerable latitude and personal freedoms. It is simply a function of ambition, organizational effectiveness, committment, and personal choice. Those coaches who do not make ends meet or who "whine about $" usually are lacking one of the 4 attributes just stated.

The sport is loaded with economic prosperity and opportunity. More importantly, it is growing even faster. for the professional coach, the options are unlimited.

[SkateGuard]

Originally posted by kayskate
I think a lot of coaches plan for a big boom of income during summertime.

Yes, I think they do, for the most part. But I think it depends on the coach.

For example, if a coach is teaching a student 5 times a week during the school year, and the student goes on vacation for the month of July (which does happen), that's 20 lessons that the skater is missing. Now the coach has to find a way to replace that skater's lesson time with another lesson. Usually, it's not a problem, but it takes work.

My point was, actually, that you can make a decent living coaching, but there is a lot of work involved for different reasons. :D

Erin

[arena_gal]

I agree with Lee. There's a huge difference in coaching costs between the USA and Canada. In Canada, there are a few coaches, in the elite centres, who can work 9-5 hours and have a full slate of students during the day. This is key. Because most skaters are schoolchildren, the most usual time for coaching is from 6-8am or from 4pm onwards and there are limited ice hours at each rink in each town each day. So, lots and lots of driving for the average coach to work maybe max 20 hours a week at $32/hour. The exception to this might be a male coach, because they can get additional income from doing dance partnering, and they charge considerably higher fees.

[Lee]

To further what arena-gal said, and to address what others said about coaching in various rinks...

Towns and rinks are well-spread out in the rural areas. To coach in several different rinks often means a drive of at least 20 minutes or more (20 miles or more). Coaches have to weigh the cost of maintaining a vehicle against the income they might receive. Small towns run their programs before and after school and often on the same days; it's often not feasible to drive between different towns to coach.

Coaches *can* earn additional income for competitions and stuff, but we're also starting to see a breed of young coach coming up who remembers how expensive it was for their parents and who refuse to 'nickel and dime' their skaters' parents for these costs. Rather than charging full expenses (30 cents/km, perdiem for meals, etc), some of these young coaches are asking to have their gas tanks filled or will pay for half their meals because they have to eat anyways -- or they'll just keep track of everything and write it off against their income taxes.

My daughter's just getting into coaching (working on the practical for the NCCP I), and she's coaching pretty much 'full-time' in our club. That means she's on the ice almost all the available private lesson time we have. She's also driving to another town one morning per week to teach another student who can't get the lessons she needs from the coaching staff available. Fulltime money? Not even close... she 'might' be making $150 week -- before taxes and stuff. There is no way $600 month is enough to live on. THAT's the reality for *most* coaches in Canada. They're in the rural areas, with limited clientele and they *can't* make a living from just coaching. At the same time, parents can't afford the ever-increasing costs either...very much a double-edged sword especially when we're trying to keep these young enthusiastic coaches in the business.

Not much for solutions though -- reality is reality (and sometimes, it bites!)

[sk8rzmom]

Coaches also earn income by cutting and editing their skaters program music, there is a "gate fee" that many charge to put a skater out at competitons, and they may charge travel time and lost income when accompanying skaters to qualifying competitons.
I have known of coaches who, wishing to increase their work time, have insisted their students quit school and be home schooled, so they can teach during down times at local rinks. In some areas of the country home schooling is a popular option anyway, and the parents may recieve a tax break that is supposed to go toward schooling the child. 9 times out of ten the extra $ goes to skating.
Many coaches sew their skaters costumes too, or sell skates on the side (although the skate companies are getting wise to the ones selling out of their basements). Some have even opened their own pro shops. There are [plenty of ways to make it a full-time job if you are motivated enough.

[jp1andOnly]

ok..lets see

Imagine you are living in Northern Ontario..or any rural area for that matter. There are 3-4 skating clubs within a 20-30 min driving time. 3 of the skating clubs are recreational only. This means they only offer winter skating..no spring, summer, or fall. Most of the skaters are learn to skate, or recreational test skaters. Those skaters that would like to skate off season are required to go to the only club in the area that offers off season. Most of the skaters choose not to. Perhaps the coach has a handful of competitive skaters. There is no ice time available for training during the daytime. Now the competitive skaters train in the morning before school and even leave school early to train at 3 pm. Sometimes the coach has to pick them up form school because mom and dad are working and there is no public transportation. Most of the competitive skaters travel in the summer and go to "elite" training centres, with the permission of the coach. The coach attempts to open a pro shop, however has no money to start it up. Because there is a small population base, sales are slow, and becasue the coach is coaching all the time, the store is rarely open. Yes, coaches can cut music. But you would only do that a couple times a year for each skater and charge them about 25-50 depending on each program.

Lets see..competitions. The coach and skater must travel far away for competitions as there are few in the area. The coach misses weekend Canskate lessons, and group lessons, which are pretty reliable money. If the coach misses too many weekends, many parents don't want them coaching their child as the coach is always away. You have to add in gas, meals, time away, perhaps even a flight. Many coaches feel bad about charging o much, and often undercharge parents.

as for skating dresses..not every coach can sew. Coaches can charge for designing the dress, but how many of them are expert sewers? Not many I'd bet. And as for quitting school...thats a joke. What crazy coach would insist and what parent would juse agree. I agree if your child is highly competitive, than that might be an option. But for the majority of people it isn't. And if mom and dad both work how can they be homeschooled? Oh wait..the coach can do it.

In Canada, most coaches get paid about $12 for 15 min. Ususally free skate sessions are 45 min. They usually have stroking sessions for 15 min, but only one coach leads them and no private lessons can be given on them. Maybe there is a dance session for 30 min, and sometimes skills for 15 min. Thats not a lot of time to give lessons. I know in the US it is quite different than here. Please do not assume a coach can make as much as anyone else if they are "motivated" Its baloney. Many of our coaches have left for the US. But in the US you also don't have the NCCP levels to pass...I think level 3 costs several hundred dollars. (Now, if im wrong about the US system please correct me..I may be outdated)

As for the tax break. In Canada if your child is under 16 you can apply for babysitting/daycare if your child skate summer school. Thats becasue its almost like sending them away to camp. But thats about all the breaks you get.

Some coaches are in it for the money, some are in it to see a skater grow.

[skaternum]

And don't forget that, for full-time coaches, they don't have the medical and retirement benefits that other full-time employees do. So out of that $40K a year, they pay for their own medical and retirement (IRAs, whatever).

Which isn't to say that you can't earn a decent living as a coach. Just don't forget about the lack of medical and retirement when you're comparing.

[dbny]

One option that hasn't been mentioned yet, is that some coaches own their own schools for which they buy the ice time from a rink. This can give them the exclusive right to decide who give private lessons on the public sessions and also to charge a commission to coaches who do so. A school that is properly run in a metro area can provide $500 - $1,000 a week profit for a one-night/week session. Not only is that a nice weekly salary for part time work, but private lesson students are developed from the school's groups. Of course, there is a lot more than just attending the sessions involved in running a school, which is why I specified "a properly run school."

[jp1andOnly]

another thing...What if a coach has children? They have to pay for daycare, find someone to watch them on the weekends while they are at competitions, pay for own medical, etc

[Francis71]

In Canada you can usually assess the coaches expected yearly income by seeing if you have to pay GST or not. It used to be if the coaches overall earnings per year exceeded $30,000.00 they had to have a GST number and charge this to their skaters. My child skates at the level where there are six coaches involved at various times in the year - they all charge GST so I expect they are earning over $30,000.00 per year.

Parents really benefit when the coach as multiple skaters at the national level because then air fare, meals and hotel rooms and lost lesson time are divided amongst the participating skaters. We have been lucky as last year the fees for nationals were divided by 10 for both coaches attending.

I would agree though in rural areas it is going to be difficult to eek out a good living.

[jp1andOnly]

thats not true anymore...most coaches are getting a GST because its an easy way for them to do their taxes. I know a coach who makes under 15,000 and has a GST number. Its much easier on her book keeping and she doesnt get blasted during tax time. I think she had to pay 3-4 thousand dollars so Revenue Canada suggested she get a GST number

[Francis71]

jpone&only

thanks for the update on the GST although my understanding is that it makes it more complicated as you need to submit GST to government. I run a private consulting business on the side of my full time job (and part time job - what we don't do to pay for the kids skating). My accountant has suggested that if I register for the GST number I can claim the costs of collecting GST but because my earnings from this part of my life are less than $10,000 per year (hey it pays for the skates and the ice time!!) I have consistantly declined as I do not want my clients to pay the 7% burden to save me money (he suggested that it would be minimal). Looks like I need to do more research on this topic and/or consider a new accountant.

However - a previous coach did not charge the GST she told me her income did not require her to do so - she kept her rates the same as other coaches but I paid less overall because of the no tax situation. I remember not minding when she increased her rate from $10.00 for a fifteen minute lesson to $10.50 because I thought she could have been charging GST and I would have been paying $10.70 all along.

[RoaringSkates]

My coach makes a nice living here in the NY area, but she really hustles. She works at three or four rinks, and I know that she used to make more than I make. She charges about $70/hour, which is pretty standard here. She also charges 1 hour of time for a competition, plus expenses if the comp isn't local. She charges if she cuts your music for you, her normal fee for however many minutes it takes. On the days she works, she works from very early in the morning until the evening, with breaks when she doesn't have lessons scheduled, and she does mostly private students, with a few classes thrown in.

I think that, at least in the US in a metropolitan area with a few rinks, a coach can do just fine. However, she really has to work - multiple rinks, constantly building her group of students, making new contacts, etc.

[sk8rzmom]

What crazy coach would insist and what parent would juse agree.(to home schooling)

Okay I don't know how to use the quote thing.

But I've been at enough rinks to see how a greedy coach can manipulate parents into taking on extra jobs, pulling kids from school, and paying exorbitant fees because the parents were so hung up the sport they couldn't see the forest from the trees.
I've seen home schooled kids who were never schooled at all, whose parents ran out of grocery money, so the family ate breakfast cereal 2 meals a day, and lunch boxes packed with an empty water bottle and a granola bar.
I've known coaches who won't take on a kid if the parents income cannot support the coaches wishes, talent or no talent. I've seen coaches burn out 9 year olds on double axels because the "forward progress" is what kept the parents paying the bills.
As a very wise judge once told me, when it comes to hiring a coach, it's buyer beware.

[jp1andOnly]

exactly. And many parents are led to believe their skater will be the next "great" one. In Canada they put out a book for new skating parents, and I think it should be a mandatory read. There were many things my parents wished they would have known when they started out as skating parents.

[Mazurka Girl]

Originally posted by sk8rzmom
As a very wise judge once told me, when it comes to hiring a coach, it's buyer beware.
I agree! I'm always appalled when people with no credentials, no experience, who can't even skate themselves & don't have a good understanding of the technical skills, start a coaching business. I have seen individuals teach group lessons who can barely walk on the ice themselves, much less skate. I don't understand why there isn't better screening by rinks & management considering the huge variances that exist. Some rinks only care that the person has an insurance policy & shows up for classes. It seems more of a convenience for them than anything else, but with even minimal effort they could go out & recruit qualified instructors. There is also usually a LOT of resume padding by the questionable coaches. For instance, I know of a person who promotes herself as a "world & national level competitor" for teaching purposes because she skated a FS 3 program at the world ISI competition. The actual competition event is conveniently left off the resume & other promotional materials. Rink management doesn't follow-up & check credentials for things like this.

Unfortunately, another problem is that the parents who end up with overly controlling, unethical coaches tend to have the kind of personalities where they're looking for that type of coach. They think some of those actions undertaken by the coach are positive attributes & they buy into the whole concept of their kid being "more special" than other kids because someone thinks they should be home schooled, etc. It's really a shame, because by the time they realize they made an error it's usually too late & the skater has missed out on an education & a real life & often never even made the final round at regionals. Then some of them grow up & start teaching using the same bad methodology they learned from their coach & the cycle starts all over again...