Q about judging and bias

[Aimless]

It's my understanding that judges are often debriefed by their federations after each major event and that the federation bigwigs may question them about how they judged the competition. If so, won't the judges be under some pressure or even required to reveal the mark they gave and doesn't this further compromise the whole premise? Or were there instruction to federations not to require disclosure? somehow I doubt it.

I suppose the judges could protect themselves by lying (claiming another judge's mark as their own or saying the computer discarded their mark) if they wanted to and no one would be the wiser. A judge with any integrity might not be willing to do this--or would they do it to preserve their integrity? The whole thing is so murky.

I guess the new system is better than the old system, though that isn't saying much. Medals have been slightly less predictable, especially in dance, though perhaps not necessarily more fair. I really like seeing the scores in order low to high, so I can see the spread at a glance, instead of having to quickly scan for the highest and lowest.

[Artemis]

I think this was the rationale behind the complete anonymity of new system: judges that previously felt pressure from their federations to vote a certain way are now given the freedom to mark what they see.

The downside is obvious: judges that do vote with bias are free to do so without ever having to justify their decisions.

[duane]

Originally posted by Artemis
The downside is obvious: judges that do vote with bias are free to do so without ever having to justify their decisions.

i totally agree, which is why i dont like the new system.

as stated, the rationale was to protect judges who felt pressure from their federations to vote a certain way. however, IMO there are perhaps way more judges who vote "certain ways" without pressure from their federations than there are who does. now, with the marks being anonymous, extremely biased judges are allowed to be more free, and give their preferred skater undeserved marks without the worry of scrutiny, or having to justify their reasonings.

[Emilieanne]

I think there is more to it than that...

Competent, honest judging requires ongoing learning, real thinking and hard work. It seems to me that many of the powers-that-be (including judges) are more interested in "schmoozing" than in the actual event (many seem to get their "kicks" by indulging in the lavish lifestyle that accompanies such events)...perhaps that is a major reason why event outcomes appear to be "predetermined" BEFORE the event even takes place! In that way, there is a ready-made, so-called "credible" (often "incredible") result even if the actual skating does not substantiate what that so-called "credible" result might actually be. This is just a thought...Another possible explanation is to "follow the money." Needless to say, that one could lead to lots of places...hmmm.

[Lee]

I think many people are doing a huge disservice to the vast majority of judges who are honest, well-meaning, and in it strictly because of a love of the sport. Bad press and a 'few' bad apples have brush a whole group with a very nast brush. I think the anonymity is big plus for the judges right now after the events of the past year or so. I think they WILL feel free to judge what they see -- and not what they've been *told* to see. I know a lot of judges who have been very hurt by what they've read and heard in the media -- they hate seeing themselves and their peers so totally denigrated because of the actions of a few. I think most people in the profession (and yes, it IS a profession -- takes a great deal of time, output of money and education/training to earn your 'stripes) are honourable and deserving of the benefit of any doubt.

Hopefully, the new point system will make things even better for the judges -- reports I've read so far indicate the judges who have tried it like the new points thing. Once it's fine-tuned, it should make things appear more objective -- that can only be a bonus for the beleaguered judging community.

It has been acknowledged in many quarters that we are also dealing with the 'human factor' in ANY judged situation. There is no way of ever complete removing 'bias' short of going to a completely mechanized system that takes out the human factor. Hopefully, the points system will be a little closer to the ideal...

[Emilieanne]

I agree that the vast majority of judges are hard-working, honorable, fair and ethical. Those individuals have put in all the necessary effort and hard work to do the job properly, but because of the actions of those few "rotten apples" the entire judging profession has been tarred with a very dirty brush.

Unfortunately, a good number of those "rotten apples" are also strategically placed amongst the powers-that-be and, therefore, everything they say and do has wide ramifications for everyone. Those are the ones that seem to be more interested in "schmoozing" and living the lavish lifestyle that being amongst the powers-that-be brings. Think about it...:frus:

[Aimless]

What I'm really asking is: What happens when the judge goes home, after the competition? won't he/she be asked how he/she ranked the skaters? And won't he/she be looking ahead to that question when the judging is going on?

[Emilieanne]

"Yes" to BOTH questions, Aimless. Some just handle answering those questions better than others, I suppose.;) ;)