Hersh article-ISU: Kwan `paramount' [Archive]

olivia

12-06-2002, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by AxelAnnie22
"Disney owns ABC, which telecasts the Grand Prix Final. Goldberg said the
relationship with ABC never has affected what Disney asks Kwan to do."

Yea, sure. And if you believe that, I have a bridge you might like to buy.....or some ocean front property in Arizona!

Well, AA, Exhibit A: Kwan had fully intended not to compete in any GP events this season and announced her decision accordingly, despite the fact that ABC had the contract to televise the events. So, I would say Kwan made the decision there, not ABC and not Disney. The fact that Kwan entered SA 5 days before the event was a direct result of Hughes' withdrawal. Who knows, maybe Kwan was pressured to enter SA at the last minute, but the USFSA, ABC and Disney had no control over Hughes' injury, which is the only factor that made Kwan's last-minute entry possible.

It would be silly to say that Kwan feels no pressure ... she's been the USFSA "go-to" girl for so long now. However, I think it's just as silly to say that she's a puppet of the USFSA, ABC and Disney. Surely there is some middle ground there, no?

O-

adrianchew

12-06-2002, 12:45 PM

Can we try to stay to the topic please - comments about bridges and babies are a tad overboard and not necessary. Thanks. ~adrianchew~

Louis

12-06-2002, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by RobinA
Disgusting.

One of these years the ISU AND the USFSA are going to have to go cold turkey and break their Michelle habit. Either that or she's going to be pregnant with her third kid and they'll still be looking for ways to force her to skate in some event to ensure revenue.

No one forced Michelle Kwan to skate at Skate America. 12 points was enough for the GP Final in both 1996 and 1998, so it wasn't like this was a completely unforeseen possibility either.

jss

12-06-2002, 01:38 PM

Jon Jackson, chairman of the USFSA international committee, disputes that contention.

"There was plenty of room for more skaters in [the Grand Prix events in] Russia, France and Japan, yet we had requests to add skaters denied," Jackson said. "Instead of working for the athletes, the ISU and national federations are more concerned with their own agendas.

"When Michelle wanted to skate just one event in 1999, [the ISU] said no. Now it's fine. Then they didn't want her to skate anything, and now they want her in the final. Whatever works best for them is what the rules are going to be."

I agree that there was room to add other skaters to competitions.

The second paragraph bothers me. Someone from the USFSA saying this is annoying. "Whatever works best for them is what the rules are going to be." If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black, then nothing is. The USFSA had just as much, if definately not more, interest in Michelle skating in SA, so to critize the ISU for something that the USFSA had just a big a part in, and probably had to bargin for, is ridiculous.

I don't think a skater should be forced to do anything. I think Michelle will go, but to put this kind of pressure on someone who has helped the sport as much as she has is stupid.

ISU general secretary Fredi Schmid said the USFSA, like all other national federations, "is obligated to send its best skaters to our events" or face unspecified sanctions.

This just isn't true. First of all you don't get to send skaters to the GPF they qualify them, so the skaters home federation has nothing to do with picking the skaters. Second, if this "obligation" is true then countries have been violating it for years. How many countries send their BEST skaters to all ISU events? Heck, the U.S. and others have been sending their backup skaters to four countinents cup since it started. Not to mention some of the skaters who have gotten grand prix spots. This whole article just really rubs me the wrong way.

AxelAnnie22

12-06-2002, 04:00 PM

It would be silly to say that Kwan feels no pressure ... she's been the USFSA "go-to" girl for so long now. However, I think it's just as silly to say that she's a puppet of the USFSA, ABC and Disney. Surely there is some middle ground there, no?

I think you kind of missed my point. I was responding to Mr. Goldberg's comment that "ABC never affects what Disney asks Michelle to do."..
I don't believe that for a second. I think what ABC wants has a direct bearing on what Michelle is asked to do.

Now, let's be clear: Being asked is very different than doing, or being made to, or any of that other stuff. I didn't say anyone was a puppet of Disney or ABC.

However, if ABC wasn't concerned about ratings (both at SA and at GPF), do you think they would be clammoring for Michelle? Don't you think, (if they weren't worried about TV ratings) they would be thrilled to have the next person in line compete at GPF? Wouldn't we see more skating, and less fluff?

ABC should be concerned about $$ - that is why they broadcast the events. And, they want the biggest producing stars to skate at the events. (So does the ISU for that matter). That is how they get viewers.

Disney owns ABC, Disney has a contract with Michelle. It would be against Disney's own interests NOT to put pressure on Michelle to skate.

Ergo, I don't believe Mr. Goldberg's statement.

NOTE: There is no claim of consipiracy, coersion, false intent, or anything else. Nor did I say that Michelle did anything wrong, or that anything is her fault.

loveskating

12-07-2002, 10:18 PM

I thought it was wrong for the USFSA to ask Michelle to fill in for Sarah...thought it was insulting to A.P. and Jenny, but once she agreed, she KNEW that if she won she would qualify and thus go to the GP Finals.

The fact she apparently does not want to go and does not claim an injury is yet more evidence in my mind of how detatched she is from being a fired up competitor, yet another statement that she does not run by the same rules as everyone else.

Personally, I don't like it when ANYONE who achieves a lot uses those achievements to claim a special place in the Universe...no one should be outside the law or the rules.

.

Hannahclear

12-07-2002, 10:24 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by loveskating
[B]I thought it was wrong for the USFSA to ask Michelle to fill in for Sarah...thought it was insulting to A.P. and Jenny, but once she agreed, she KNEW that if she won she would qualify and thus go to the GP Finals.

~How did she know this? ESP? Most people don't qualify with 12 points, if she knew that she would win somehow. It actually seemed like a pretty remote chance, or did she use her powers to make the other girls fall?

The fact she apparently does not want to go and does not claim an injury is yet more evidence in my mind of how detatched she is from being a fired up competitor, yet another statement that she does not run by the same rules as everyone else.

~Um, actually she hasn't said if she wants to go or not, she said "no comment" and that she was getting ready for Nats, which would make sense, as the GPF is in March and Nats are in January.

~Again, she broke no rules by attending SA. She was no longer a seeded skater, having not entered the Grand Prix and was a late alternate approved by the USFSA. She didn't break any rules.

nits

12-07-2002, 11:50 PM

How ridiculous to state that Michelle "knew" she would qualify after only one event. How do you know that for sure? :roll:
I think the whole SA scenerio has been discussed and explained many times, yet there are still some that simply don't understand that there was no conspiracy and the USFA did nothing "wrong" by inviting Michelle.
Either that or some just like to complain about MK no matter what she does, or doesn't do. :roll:

Badams

12-08-2002, 12:11 AM

also...how do you know the usfsa DIDN'T ask other skaters and they simply couldn't go? and how is it insulting to AP and jenny? AP won a silver there! so it's not like they could offer her the spot...she was already there! and jenny was there too! so she couldn't have been offerend the spot. and before you say "if michelle wasn't there Ap would have won" i'll say if AP was good enough to beat michelle she would have won. michelle didn't prevent that. AP did. and jenny wasn't even close to a medal. michelle doesn't prevent these girls from medalling. they are in control of their own skating, michelle is not that powerful contrary to what some would like us to think. she doesn't REALLY control the media and stuff :lol:

bcskater

12-08-2002, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by Badams
also...how do you know the usfsa DIDN'T ask other skaters and they simply couldn't go? and how is it insulting to AP and jenny? AP won a silver there! so it's not like they could offer her the spot...she was already there! and jenny was there too! so she couldn't have been offerend the spot. and before you say "if michelle wasn't there Ap would have won" i'll say if AP was good enough to beat michelle she would have won. michelle didn't prevent that. AP did.
i absolutely totally completely agree with everything said above!!!!

Halo girl

12-08-2002, 01:54 AM

I agree that the problem is not the fault of the ISU nor the USFSA. When Michelle agreed to skate, she should have thought about the possibility that maybe she might win a spot. Considering she already had planned not to skate this season, she still could have said no. Yes, I agree that she was probably pressured into skating, but in the end, she's the one who stepped out on the ice and won a spot. Now, its time for her to face the "consequences" of winning because that's the way the system works. The USFSA/ISU does not owe her a thing because she has profited from this too, and if she did not want to fullfill what might have and eventually did become a duty, she should have declined skating in the first place.

jss

12-08-2002, 02:09 AM

Again Michelle hasn't said she ISN'T doing the Grand Prix final, so to say Michelle is trying to back out of anything is premature.

When Michelle agreed to skate, she should have thought about the possibility that maybe she might win a spot.

Do we even know for sure that Michelle knew her circumstance before skating? Did she know that she was skating in the Grand Prix and earning points, or is it possible she thought she was only doing Skate America to help out and was unaware that she would be considered part of the Grand Prix? This makes a very big difference in my mind.

icyboid

12-08-2002, 03:00 AM

I think everyone (Michelle included) expected Michelle to qualify as much as they expected Sarah to get injured, or Ann Patrice to get visa troubles.

Regardless, it remains Michelle's choice, unless the ISU decides to go the communist route and pass a clause that grandfathers requiring her to enter.

JDC1

12-08-2002, 08:17 AM

Thanks for summing it up so succinctly.

Some people are so bizarrely anti-Kwan that's it's just odd that they even participate in threads about her.

Who knows what she was thinking? Maybe she thought, "OK I just won SA this means I might end up in the GPF...okay I"ll deal with that when the time comes for now I have other committments".

She most certainly has not said she isn't going so why don't you save your judgemental comments until then?

It's just silly, don't assume the worst about someone who has never given you reason to. Michelle has always conducted herself like a responsible young woman so why assume now she won't ? My guess is, if Michelle sticks true to character, whether she really wants to or not, she'll go to the GPF because that's what is expected/asked of her by her Federation. Remember this is the woman who showed up at Worlds after one of the most crushing moments in her skating career, she's hardly one to shirk her responsibilities.

SkateGuard

12-08-2002, 08:28 AM

The ISU wouldn't be in this situation if AP didn't have those visa troubles....

I just find it odd that Michelle has qualified with 12 points, but B/A are 3rd alternates with 14 points.

Let me be cynical...this is all about TV ratings. The final is in St. Petersburg, and both Slutskaya and Volchkova have qualified, so I think the audiences will be fired up without Kwan's presence. The casual TV audience in the states may not watch it without a "name" skater, which would only be Michelle at this point. (I'm a public skate guard, and most people I talk to at public skate know Sarah Hughes as "the girl who beat Michelle"--they don't even know her name!)

If the ISU would spend its time before the final promoting the qualifiers who _want_ to be there, rather than trying to strong-arm Kwan into going, maybe they wouldn't need for Kwan to be there in the first place. I mean, what are they going to do when she hangs up her eligible skates for good?

Erin
(who would much rather see B/A than Kwan....no offense, but I've seen Kwan a millon times already!)

nits

12-08-2002, 01:11 PM

Out of curiosity, do you also feel it was wrong and an insult to the other skaters that Sasha Cohen decided to skate at the Sears Open so late? Wasn't this announcement that she decided to compete at this just made sometime last week?
Or is it only horrible if/when Michelle Kwan gets invited to compete and accepts?

jss

12-08-2002, 01:14 PM

On a different note, maybe Michelle shouldn't go after what happened to her at last years final!!! JK! LOL!!!

Halo girl

12-09-2002, 01:35 AM

A few points to address:

JDC1- Just because there are some issues about a situation people don't like, that doesn't make them "anti Michelle". Michelle's human and she makes mistakes just like everyone else in the world. In this particular case, there are some people who think this is one of those times.

Originally posted by jss
Again Michelle hasn't said she ISN'T doing the Grand Prix final, so to say Michelle is trying to back out of anything is premature.

Do we even know for sure that Michelle knew her circumstance before skating? Did she know that she was skating in the Grand Prix and earning points, or is it possible she thought she was only doing Skate America to help out and was unaware that she would be considered part of the Grand Prix? This makes a very big difference in my mind.

Well, to quote the article, "the skater had yet to give the issue any consideration", so it sure sounds like she doesn't plan on going unless she's forced into it.

As far as "knowing the circumstances", no one has a crystal ball to see things beforehand, so that doesn't mean anything. The fact is, there is always a possibilty for anything in life. Michelle didn't think about that or didn't care, so she skated anyway. If you are part of the Grand Prix, you're part of the event. If she had any questions about what exactly was her involvement in the Grand Prix, she should have found out and gotten it in writing well before she ever stepped on the ice.

Now she finds herself in the finals. Considering the events are a means to an end, meaning the finals, she should have thought about what would happen on the remote possibility that she got a spot. If she didn't want to take that chance, she should have declined SA. I think she's a bit of a prima donna to think she can pick and choose what events she wants to skate in when everyone else has to follow the rules. Doesn't matter that the ISU/USFSA lets her do it, she's still to blame as well because she goes along with it. I'd say the same thing about Sasha, Irina, or any other skater who was treating the events in an unprofessional manner as well.

jss

12-09-2002, 02:16 AM

Well, to quote the article, "the skater had yet to give the issue any consideration", so it sure sounds like she doesn't plan on going unless she's forced into it

Gee it sounds like to me that she hasn't given any thought to the question, meaning she hasn't decided. :roll:

I think she's a bit of a prima donna to think she can pick and choose what events she wants to skate in when everyone else has to follow the rules.

What rules has Michelle broken? None. When has SHE ever picked or chosen in an instance when others couldn't do the same. Oh yeah and filling in to help out the USFSA when the star skater has pulled out is so prima donna. :roll: Seems to me that Michelle was nice and helpful when she agreed to do the event.

As far as "knowing the circumstances", no one has a crystal ball to see things beforehand, so that doesn't mean anything.

It doesn't mean anything? Meaning it isn't important what Michelle was or wasn't told before entering the event?

Doesn't matter that the ISU/USFSA lets her do it

It doesn't matter what the people in CHARGE, tell Michelle what she can and can't do?

Again Michelle HASN'T stated what she plans on doing. So calling her a prima donna or blamming her for a situation that hasn't even come to pass yet is premature and stupid.

Halo girl

12-09-2002, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by jss
Gee it sounds like to me that she hasn't given any thought to the question, meaning she hasn't decided. :roll:

If she hasn't given any thoughts or "hasn't decided" she better do some quick thinking. :roll:

Originally posted by jss

What rules has Michelle broken? None. When has SHE ever picked or chosen in an instance when others couldn't do the same. Oh yeah and filling in to help out the USFSA when the star skater has pulled out is so prima donna. :roll: Seems to me that Michelle was nice and helpful when she agreed to do the event.

Gee, a little bias, aren't we? :roll: When Michelle asks to only do one event are those times. She's done it before. Even though this time she was asked, I've never heard of anyone else being allowed to do only one event. That was a special thing for Michelle, and even though it isn't fair for the other skaters, she still went along with it, so in the end, this was for her benefit as well since she didn't have to do all the events. Nice and helpful to BOTH sides, not just the organizations.

Originally posted by jss

It doesn't mean anything? Meaning it isn't important what Michelle was or wasn't told before entering the event?

Read above. She needed to find out before skating. No one else's fault for her misunderstanding if she didn't ask. If it was in writing, she'd at least be able to back up what she was going to do.

Like I said, she should have asked. Skating is a business to the orgaizations AND to Michelle, and yes, I do think the organizations would tell her whatever to get her to skate. However, that's exactly why it's HER responsiblity to find out exactly what the plans are and to get them in writing. In the end, it's her fault that there are now questions in what is going on.

Originally posted by jss

It doesn't matter what the people in CHARGE, tell Michelle what she can and can't do?

Yes, it does matter because Michelle should be made to do the events just like everyone else. She didn't, plain and simple. However, in doing ANY part of the event, she now has to face the consequences and skate.

Originally posted by jss

Again Michelle HASN'T stated what she plans on doing. So calling her a prima donna or blamming her for a situation that hasn't even come to pass yet is premature and stupid. :roll: :roll: [/B][/QUOTE]

Having fun with those eye rolls again, aren't we? :roll: I can understand that you are a Michelle fan who thinks everything she does is all good and wonderful. Michelle is god and can do no wrong. :roll

However, considering this was a article in a newspaper and it's a big enough deal for the USFSA/ISU to have a problem with it, and other people are discussing the matter, and her agent IS saying she isn't considering it, I think it's clear that she doesn't want to skate. Whether or not she actually will skate remains to be seen, but the fact is, there is speculation on what is going on. That is something to be discussed. But then again, I guess we can only discuss Michelle if the remarks are all goody-goody and positive. :roll:

Patty

12-09-2002, 03:52 AM

Originally posted by Halo girl
Well, to quote the article, "the skater had yet to give the issue any consideration", so it sure sounds like she doesn't plan on going unless she's forced into it.
And...
Originally posted by Halo girl
If she hasn't given any thoughts or "hasn't decided" she better do some quick thinking. :roll:
I believe she said this at her news conference in Hong Kong, which was proceeded by her saying that she had just found out that she had made the Final. So, she hadn't had enough time to really think about it. The Final isn't until March, so there was no need for "quick thinking" or quick answers. Michelle said she's concentrating on one event at a time, and right now she's concentrating on Nationals.

Gee, a little bias, aren't we? :roll: When Michelle asks to only do one event are those times. She's done it before. Even though this time she was asked, I've never heard of anyone else being allowed to do only one event. That was a special thing for Michelle, and even though it isn't fair for the other skaters, she still went along with it, so in the end, this was for her benefit as well since she didn't have to do all the events. Nice and helpful to BOTH sides, not just the organizations.
Other skaters have only done one GP event. AP was only invited to and thus only did one GP event during the '01-'02 season. IIRC, Todd only did one GP event one season as well. And there are other lesser known skaters who only do one event.

And what's wrong with Michelle asking to do only one event? ALL skaters, including the Worlds top six, should have the right to do only one event if they want to. Skaters aren't slaves. The ISU's stupid rules are the problem, not Michelle. Get on the ISU's case, instead of Michelle's.

Read above. She needed to find out before skating. No one else's fault for her misunderstanding if she didn't ask. If it was in writing, she'd at least be able to back up what she was going to do.

Like I said, she should have asked. Skating is a business to the orgaizations AND to Michelle, and yes, I do think the organizations would tell her whatever to get her to skate. However, that's exactly why it's HER responsiblity to find out exactly what the plans are and to get them in writing. In the end, it's her fault that there are now questions in what is going on.
Michelle nor no one in Team Michelle has ever said they didn't know. That is people in this thread wondering if that might be the case. Like the rest of us, I think they knew it was possible, but that it would most likely never happen. Thus, Michelle and the rest if us assumed she wouldn't make the GP. When people assume something isn't going to happen, they don't think about it. Now, that she knows she has made it, she will start to think about it.

Yes, it does matter because Michelle should be made to do the events just like everyone else. She didn't, plain and simple. However, in doing ANY part of the event, she now has to face the consequences and skate.
:roll: :roll:

Having fun with those eye rolls again, aren't we? :roll: I can understand that you are a Michelle fan who thinks everything she does is all good and wonderful. Michelle is god and can do no wrong. :roll

However, considering this was a article in a newspaper and it's a big enough deal for the USFSA/ISU to have a problem with it, and other people are discussing the matter, and her agent IS saying she isn't considering it, I think it's clear that she doesn't want to skate. Whether or not she actually will skate remains to be seen, but the fact is, there is speculation on what is going on. That is something to be discussed. But then again, I guess we can only discuss Michelle if the remarks are all goody-goody and positive. :roll:
And what's wrong with Michelle not wanting to go? Not wanting to go there and not actually going there are two different things. But, doesn't Michelle have the right like the rest of us to not want to do something? I believe she will do the Final, even though she doesn't want to, because Michelle tends to be the dutiful type who tries to fulfill her obligations. But, Michelle still has the right to her feelings. Not even the ISU can make rules to control skaters' feelings.

At the same time, there's the protest part of me which kind of wishes Michelle would stand up to the stupid ISU and say "Hell no, I won't go". :P :twisted:

Halo girl

12-09-2002, 04:58 AM

Originally posted by Patty

I believe she said this at her news conference in Hong Kong, which was proceeded by her saying that she had just found out that she had made the final. I imagine she hadn't had much time to think about it with everything she was doing in Hong Kong. I believe that's what she meant-that she hasn't had time to think about it.
/B]

Sorry, I did not know when she said it. I can understand her just finding out she got the spot, but in reality, she doesn't really have much to consider.

Originally posted by Patty

And what's wrong with Michelle asking to do only one event? Skaters should have the right to do only one event if they want to. Skaters aren't slaves. The ISU's stupid rules are the problem, not Michelle. Get on the ISU's case, instead of Michelle's[/B]

Actually, I DO think it's the ISU's fault too (as I stated) because they should do the same thing for all the skaters. However, when something isn't fair and someone goes along with it, they are as much to blame as the people who let things slide by. That's my gripe about that matter.

Originally posted by Patty

Michelle nor no one in Team Michelle has ever said they didn't know. That was just someone in this thread wondering if that might be the case. Like the rest of us, I think they knew it was possible, but that it would most likely never happen. Thus, she and the rest if us assumed she wouldn't make the GP. When people assume something isn't going to happen, they stop thinking about it.[/B]

I know Michelle didn't say that, I'm just going along with the conversation ideas here. However, like you said, Michelle knew it was a possibility, so she should have been prepared to skate in the final. I believe there is a quote that says "never assume anything". Guess this time it proves to be true.

Originally posted by Patty
And what's wrong with Michelle not wanting to go? Not wanting to go there and not actually going there are two different things. But, doesn't Michelle have the right like the rest of us to not want to do something? I believe she will do the Final, even though she doesn't want to, because Michelle tends to be the dutiful type who tries to fulfill her obligations. But, Michelle still has the right to her feelings. Not even the ISU can make rules to control skaters' feelings. [/B]

Well, considering the article was slanted to say she wasn't planning on going (or at least implied a "what if" situation), I based my statements on that. None of us knows what she will do, but considering it's a big fuss already, let's consider if she decides not to. Skating is Michelle's job, not just something she does because she enjoys it. No one loves everything about their jobs, but we all have certain obligations and duties in what we do, whether we actually want to do them or not. For Michelle, when she decided to be a part of the Grand Prix, as you stated, she was probably aware of the possiblity she'd make the final. How well do you think your boss would like it in the middle of a project you decided you had enough and didn't want to be involved in it anymore? I'd bet your boss wouldn't like it, am I right? It's the same situation with Michelle. She doesn't want to finish her commitment on the Grand Prix. I can understand the ISU being upset over that since she was a part of the event and won a spot and now she's saying she doesn't want to go. That's just an unprofessional way of doing your job.

Edited to take out bold text

Patty

12-09-2002, 05:21 AM

Originally posted by Halo girl
Well, considering the article was slanted to say she wasn't planning on going (or at least implied a "what if" situation), I based my statements on that. None of us knows what she will do, but considering it's a big fuss already, let's consider if she decides not to. Skating is Michelle's job, not just something she does because she enjoys it. No one loves everything about their jobs, but we all have certain obligations and duties in what we do, whether we actually want to do them or not. For Michelle, when she decided to be a part of the Grand Prix, as you stated, she was probably aware of the possiblity she'd make the final. How well do you think your boss would like it in the middle of a project you decided you had enough and didn't want to be involved in it anymore? I'd bet your boss wouldn't like it, am I right? It's the same situation with Michelle. She doesn't want to finish her commitment on the Grand Prix. I can understand the ISU being upset over that since she was a part of the event and won a spot and now she's saying she doesn't want to go. That's just an unprofessional way of doing your job.

But again she has never said she isn't going. She hasn't even said she doesn't want to go-- we have all just assumed these are her feelings. She has never been one to shirk her responsibilities and not follow through on her obligatons, so I expect her to go. What I was saying is she has the right to have feelings that she wishes she didn't have to go, if those are even really her feelings.

I do wish the ISU rules could be changed so the GP is flexible, so skaters don't have to do the Final or all the GP if they don't want to. Then, more up and coming skaters would get a chance to make a splash. The Final would have really helped to give AP or Arakawa more exposure. MK doesn't need it. I just wish one of them would have made it. Then we wouldn't be needing this discussion.

As for the work comparison, I think skaters should be treated like independent contractors or temps, free to take or turn down each project/ job-- rather than employees of Boss ISU, forced to take every project/ job dreamed up for them. I think each GP Event should be treated as an individual project or job. If skaters complete their first projects well, then they become eligible for a bigger, better project, the Final. Then, they should be free to say yes or no to this new project they have qualified for.

Marney

12-09-2002, 06:04 AM

Can anyone really blame her for not wanting to be a part of the 2 long program final?

JDC1

12-09-2002, 08:24 AM

I can't blame her at all for not wanting to go and the USFSA may find next year she's not so eager to jump in at the last minute. I think the current GPF set up for singles skaters is absurd.

Halogirl - I am basing my "anti-kwan" statement on posters who come and make factually incorrect statements simply to make a point that somehow Michelle K. has done something wrong or will/might do something wrong. What's the point?

I think the ISU has entirely too much power and the rules are too murky but that's not Michelle's fault. It's not her fault she's wildly popular and well thought of and sought after so people go out of their way to get her into competitions.

quarkiki2

12-09-2002, 10:39 AM

Actually, if I recall, every year *except this one* where Kwan has participated in the GP she has done at least two competitions. In 99 she petitioned to only do one (Skate America) and she was denied and did not do any. Even the year she was injured, she was injured on her second GP. Incidentally, she qualified with 12 points that year, too.

I think that it was because of her and Todd Eldredge that they came up with the "If you're a top-six-at-worlds-seeded-skater" you must do two or 3 GP events or none at all. This is because Kwan is a ratings draw, like it or not -- of course the network and the governing boards want her to participate. She is currently the most recognizable face in the sport and with her clean attitude and camera-friendly interviews she always projects a good image for the sport. She's also got more advertisers backing her than any other skater right now and these events and broadcasts need to be profitable or we won't see them.

Again, Kwan did nothing wrong by accepting the last-minute-unforseen-invitation to Skate America. She also did nothing wrong by winning. It is also entirely conceivable that she really IS concentrating on Nationals instead of worrying about the GP Final at this point. It has been widely acknowledged that this year's US Ladies Nationals will be the toughest competition of the season. There's so much more at stake, too.

Michelle really hasn't benefitted from participating in the GP final since 1996 when she won. She didn't participate in 1998 due to injury or 99 because she didn't skate the GP events that year and she lost in 00, 01, and 02 and these things really haven't impacted her career. I think that a win for Sasha, Yoshie, Viktoria, or Fumie will be more important for their careers than for Irina or Michelle this year.

Does Michelle know she could have qualified for the final based on one performance? Of course, she's not stupid. She didn't find out "officially" until last week, but I'm fairly certain she's thought about it. Although I do believe she hasn't decided if she wants to go or not -- she's definitely well aware that the only reason she can't participate now is an injury and faking an injury doesn't seem like a Michelle thing to do. I think that with her current "one thing at a time" attitude she may not be willing to let us know of her plans immediately, and that's really OK with me. I dislike the GP marathon, anyway.

It seems to me that this was kinda of a non-issue with Kwan until the ISU started in with the whole "Kwan is paramount" thing. That's not her trying to cause a fuss in the press, it's the ISU using her to gain ratings and to make the competition more profitable. I can understand why she's not willing to make any comment on the record at this point in time. Besides, people will be in a tizzy no matter what she decides: if she goes, she's not giving new skaters a chance; if she doesn't, she's pulling rank, etc. I guess I think she should do whatever she wants -- and she'll honor any commitment in her contract, we've seen that from her consistently.

AxelAnnie22

12-09-2002, 10:59 AM

I can agree with all that you have said. They only thing I would add is my hope that Michelle will be courteous enough to decide soon, so that others know what they are doing.

Badams

12-09-2002, 11:03 AM

this whole "issue" seems silly to me. michelle has not stated that she's going or that she's not going. either have any of the other finalists. are we to assume that they aren't going just because they haven't stated otherwise? is michelle supposed to hold a press conference to alert us to her every move? if so, i'll be expecting sasha, irina, fumie, yoshie, and all the others to declare their intentions for the GPF soon. time's a wastin'!!!! they better get on the ball. how dare they think that they don't have to go. we need to know NOW what their intentions are!!!! (in case it's not obvious...i'm being very sarcastic)

loveskating

12-09-2002, 11:35 AM

It seems silly to me to refuse to recognize that implied in Jackson's statement regarding Cinquanta's statement (see first post of this thread) is the implication or subtext that Kwan does not particularly want to go to the GP Finals!

Its more than possible for people to disagree with a skater or whomever based on ONE issue, on the merits of that single issue, without a blanket animis. I disagree with my mom all the time...doesn't mean I hold her in contempt.

As for demanding that Sasha, Irina, Fumie, Yoshie state their intentions regarding the GP Finals, no similar article was written about them with a similar Jackson response! However since they all skated their hearts out in the GP events, it seems safe to rely on this to conclude that they want to go and they want to win.

Additionally, while I might support a notion that the GP is too taxing on skaters, as long as it exists, then all the competitors should play by the same rules out of fairness.

spiralsrfun

12-09-2002, 12:21 PM

Good points Badams -
I haven't seen any press releases from Sasha, Irina, Fumie, Yoshie or Victoria announcing their plans of dedication to the GPF...but of course, out of "courtesy" to others, Michelle has to have one. :roll:

C'mon...the ISU KNEW Michelle wasn't planning to participate in the GP...therefore she lost her "seeded" status (which went to Volchkova)...then, by request of the USFSA, she filled-in at SA for a last minute withdrawl from Hughes...MK won and earned 12 points...and by a slim chance...made the final.

This ISU media "posturing" is a very obvious agenda...now that Michelle has qualified...they want to make sure she'll go...media pressure on her and the USFSA is the first step. Why because Michelle = $ = Ratings. Add to that it's in Russia...so the ISU really would like Michelle there, that's very obvious.

Remember...Michelle never said she wasn't going to go...so what's all the fuss about with some of you...oh that's right...Michelle must announce all her thoughts in a timely manner, I forgot.

AxelAnnie22

12-09-2002, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Badams
this whole "issue" seems silly to me. michelle has not stated that she's going or that she's not going. either have any of the other finalists. are we to assume that they aren't going just because they haven't stated otherwise? is michelle supposed to hold a press conference to alert us to her every move? if so, i'll be expecting sasha, irina, fumie, yoshie, and all the others to declare their intentions for the GPF soon. time's a wastin'!!!! they better get on the ball. how dare they think that they don't have to go. we need to know NOW what their intentions are!!!! (in case it's not obvious...i'm being very sarcastic) Hi Badams

When one participates in the Grand Prix, they are expected to compete in the GPF, should they qualify. It is one of the conditions upon their participation.

The fact that Michelle's response is anything other than "of course I will be there, just like all the other skaters who qualified" is what makes it an issue. Her two reported responses have been "No comment", and "I haven't thought about it yet".

adrianchew

12-09-2002, 12:45 PM

Sasha was asked about the Grand Prix Finals in an interview during the Trophy Lalique coverage on ABC. She pretty much said she was looking forward to it! ;)

Michelle was asked about the Grand Prix Finals during her trip to Hong Kong. I forgot what she said but it was neither a yes or a no - I'm sure that probably raised flags at the ISU.

I don't disagree that it seems the ISU is indeed doing some media posturing of their own. At this point though, only one of the qualified skaters has hinted of possibly not competiting - and it isn't fair to say that the ISU will not put pressure on other federations should their skaters indicate a possibility of wanting to pull out.

icyboid

12-09-2002, 01:21 PM

People wouldn't think that Kwan getting to do one event was"unfair" if she hadn't qualified for the final.

Did she get special treatment for Skate America? Absolutely. Why don't other people get the same option? Because they most likely don't have nearly as much name-recognition as Kwan.

Kwan's qualifying was the result of many factors playing out in an unlikely manner. The Kwan butterfly flapped its wings and through its slight disturbance in the air currents of the skating world, somehow caused a hurricane at the GPF.

LilRedRidingHood

12-09-2002, 01:25 PM

I was wondering if anyone knows how many skaters have qualified for the Finals with only one win? Meaning they won at one event and missed the podiums at the rest of their GP Events, and still made it to the Finals?

I ask the question this way, rather than "with only 12 points" because Michelle was only in one event. If she hadn't won, she would have had less than 12 points...

Is it "normal" historically to reach the Final with only 1 win and no other points? Or is that an exception to the norm?

I know I could probably look this up... but I'm out of time!

Thanks!

jss

12-09-2002, 01:28 PM

I can understand that you are a Michelle fan who thinks everything she does is all good and wonderful. Michelle is god and can do no wrong.

If Michelle came out and said she wasn't doing the GPF and didn't feel like she should have to then I think Michelle would have done something wrong. Yes Michelle is my favorite skater, and the only reason I defended her was because of accusations and name calling based on stuff that hasn't happened. Oh and you can discuss your opinion, but when I give mine I'm defending Michelle at all cost and only wanna her goody-goody things about her. Also my opinion for Michelle seems just as strong as your opinion against Michelle. I agree that is was possibly foresable that Michelle would make the GPF, all I was doing was tossing out the idea that maybe she wasn't given the details.

spiralsrfun

12-09-2002, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by adrianchew
Sasha was asked about the Grand Prix Finals in an interview during the Trophy Lalique coverage on ABC. She pretty much said she was looking forward to it! ;)
You got me there...I missed that interview. I'd be surprised if Sasha wasn't excited to be going...lol.

Originally posted by adrianchew
Michelle was asked about the Grand Prix Finals during her trip to Hong Kong. I forgot what she said but it was neither a yes or a no - I'm sure that probably raised flags at the ISU.

I don't disagree that it seems the ISU is indeed doing some media posturing of their own. At this point though, only one of the qualified skaters has hinted of possibly not competiting - and it isn't fair to say that the ISU will not put pressure on other federations should their skaters indicate a possibility of wanting to pull out. [/B]
Thank you!!! That is exactly the point of my post!
All of this is expected, from Michelle saying "no comment" to the ISU saying "she must go" (lol). None of this should be a shock to anyone.

Kwan will make her "required announcement" by Nationals at the latest. Which gives the alternates plenty of time...believe me, with all the withdrawls/injuries this season, don't think for one second that Liashenko and Arakawa aren't preparing for the GPF, just in case. ;)

nits

12-09-2002, 04:22 PM

Of course Sasha is excited to be going to the GPF. It's her first ever!
What does Michelle have to be excited about? She should've won last year, and anyone that watched it knows that. I'm sure we'll see something similar this year.

TAF2984

12-09-2002, 05:01 PM

icyboid like patty said before Todd only did one GP event at skate canda a few years back.

HSF

12-09-2002, 05:35 PM

Todd did not compete at the '99 Worlds so he was not a seeded skater for the 99/2000 GP series.

Only seeded skaters are required to skate in two events if they elect to participate, In addition, in the Ladies and Mens disciplines, only seeded skaters have the option of skating in a 3rd event for no points.

HSF

Excidra

12-09-2002, 07:27 PM

I'm not blaming anything on kwan, but she should've known what she was getting her self into, before helping out the USFSA, by entering Skate America. As louis said, she knew there was a chance 12 points might get her into the finals.
Now it seems that the USFSA is not helping out Michelle, taking into account that she doens't want to compete at GPF.

I think members here are making a big deal out of this, Michelle is going to be there, whether she likes it or not.
If she decides not to go, then the ISU will find some way to get her back and if that means taking her eligiblity away, they will do it.

Yazmeen

12-09-2002, 07:45 PM

The ISU is NOT going to "get Michelle back", regardless of her decision. Pardon my rudeness, but you don't kill your cash cow. The ISU may be stupid, but even they are not THAT stupid.

I find this whole thing hysterical--Michelle has not said ANYTHING yet about the GPF, yet everyone, including the ISU, is in a frenzy about it. Darn, I wish I had this much power over my line of work!!!!!!! Somewhere, Michelle has to be giggling over all this tempest in a tiny teapot. Ahh, just another reason for those who dislike her to suggest she should be burned at the stake...

As I've said before, may the best lady win this year, whoever she is.

What a study in psychology this season is becoming!!!!

Grin,

Beth

HSF

12-09-2002, 11:08 PM

OMG, this thread has been “a lot to do about nothing” IMNSHO. LOL

I didn’t access the link provided in this thread to the article about the ISU because I refuse to “sign up” but I think I have read enough about the article on other sites to get the gist of what was said. I still am amazed at the status and influence Michelle has as far as the ISU is concerned.

It’s really laughable that a comment to the affect that “we just heard and have not had a chance to consider what we are going to do” by Michelle and her manager sent the ISU into a tailspin. I can well understand their (Michelle and her manager’s) hesitancy to give a more definitive comment.

Let’s go back to 98/99 season . . .

Like this past year, Michelle was coming off a very emotional loss at the Olympics. She skated at the 98 Worlds and was a seeded skater for the 98/99 GP series. She wanted some down time and decided not to compete in the GP series.

Now back then, I think the “official” rules for seeded skaters simply said they had the right choose what events they wanted to participate in and they could skate in a 3rd event for no points if they so desired.

It was also an “official” rule that the host country was entitled to name 3 skaters in each discipline to participate in the competition they hosted.

So the USFSA entered Michelle as one of its 3 ladies. Apparently this upset France and they screamed loud enough that a new rule suddenly appeared . . . according to Cinquanta, he sent out a memo that said a seeded skater could not skate in just one event but must skate in two or not participate at all. LOL

Flack flew back and forth between the USFSA and ISU with Michelle caught in the middle and finally the USFSA gave in to the “powers that be.”

Is there any wonder that Michelle and her manager were hesitant to comment on the fact that “she had qualified for the GPF?” She was in Hong Kong on a very positive promotional tour and they had no time to check out the repercussions. I’m sure they were waiting for the USFSA, the ISU and the GP committee to confirm that she did, indeed, qualify.

After all, who knows what rules apply ? . . .

HSF

LilRedRidingHood

12-10-2002, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by TAF2984
icyboid like patty said before Todd only did one GP event at skate canda a few years back.

Did he qualify for the final with only that one event? I'm trying to figure out if this is common or not. [ Earning enough points in one event to make the final.]

HSF

12-10-2002, 12:26 PM

No, Todd did not qualify when he competed in just one event. I think he ended up with 7 points, but am not sure of that. He did not win.

The full results for the GP series at the ISU site only go back to the 98/99 season. No one who skated in just one event qualified in any discipline from that time until MK qualified this year.

I have read that MK qualified with just one scoring event (SA) in the 97/98 season but the ISU went on to award her points for her non scoring event at SC. I can't confirm this and I really don't remember as it was a non issue as far as I was concerned. MK was recovering from an injury and didn't skate in the GPF.

The GP series hasn't been around that long. It started out as Skate International after the big surge in skating popularity in 94 and was later renamed the Grand Prix. I'm not sure what year the name change occurred.

I hope this has been some help.

HSF

Oracle

12-10-2002, 02:09 PM

IMO, Michelle is the one in the driver's seat as far as this discussion goes, not the ISU or USFSA. If you'd been earning over a million dollars a year since you were in your teens would you care to be forced to do anything you didn't want to do? All she has to do is threaten to turn pro & participate in the Winter COI. She won't be going hungry & she'll have the freedom to make even more money. Maybe you think money shouldn't be important but it's a fact of life that it is. It was the collapse of the Soviet system that brought about prize money for skaters. Did the ISU open up their coffers to help poor, struggling skaters in the West? No, indeed. And if they hadn't begun the prize money system then you wouldn't have Yagudin, Plushenko, Slutskaya, etc. to root for. They'd be back in Russia struggling to earn a living never mind being able to afford to continue skating. My advice to Michelle is do what is most beneficial for Michelle. It's the way the ISU operates. Skaters to them are money-making machines. End of rant!

peachstatesk8er

12-10-2002, 03:09 PM

OK, did Michelle actaully SAY she didn't want to go? If those specific words did not come out of her mouth, and she did not say that she doesn't want to attend, OR that she had no intention of attending, then all this is over a big fat nothing.

My thought is whether or not she actually wants to go, she'll be there. She's the kind of person that seems to do what is right, not necessarily what she wants. Until she says flat out NO and that she's refusing to go, I don't think it's worth getting worked up over.

I hope she does go because she had to know that saying yes to SA and winning made it a real possibility that she would qualify. She didn't go into it blind so I hope she upholds what is expected of her based on her competing in SA.

AxelAnnie22

12-10-2002, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by peachstatesk8er
OK, did Michelle actaully SAY she didn't want to go? If those specific words did not come out of her mouth, and she did not say that she doesn't want to attend, OR that she had no intention of attending, then all this is over a big fat nothing.

What she said was "no comment" - an odd answer for a competitor who has been around for such a long time.

JDC1

12-10-2002, 03:20 PM

Actually not at all an odd thing to say. She doesn't want to discuss it so she simply says, "no comment". I am sure she will do what is right but maybe she's annoyed that she ended up in the final and doesn't feel like talking about but wants to have fun and do her Disney work with her family.

Fact is that people are going to find fault in people whom they want to find fault, she could have said "You bet I'll be there" and people would say "she's so conceited she just knew she'd get in and she already has her program(s) prepared" even though that's what most of the skaters who are going would have done. So whatever.

duane

12-10-2002, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by Yazmeen
The ISU is NOT going to "get Michelle back", regardless of her decision. Pardon my rudeness, but you don't kill your cash cow. The ISU may be stupid, but even they are not THAT stupid.

I find this whole thing hysterical--Michelle has not said ANYTHING yet about the GPF, yet everyone, including the ISU, is in a frenzy about it. Darn, I wish I had this much power over my line of work!!!!!!!

totally agree.

however, michelle does have such power over her line of work, and more so this season with the absence of yagudin, sarah, and tim. one can actually understand why the ISU desperately wants michelle to commit to attending the GPF, and their attempt to pressure her to do so.

but as stated, michelle is in the driver's seat. i'll beat her reaction to the ISU's pressure is, "shake, shake...quiver, quiver". ;)

loveskating

12-11-2002, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by JDC1
Actually not at all an odd thing to say. She doesn't want to discuss it so she simply says, "no comment". I am sure she will do what is right but maybe she's annoyed that she ended up in the final and doesn't feel like talking about but wants to have fun and do her Disney work with her family.

Fact is that people are going to find fault in people whom they want to find fault, she could have said "You bet I'll be there" and people would say "she's so conceited she just knew she'd get in and she already has her program(s) prepared" even though that's what most of the skaters who are going would have done. So whatever.

Does that mean there is no behavior which is on its own terms and merits simply faulty no matter who is doing it? I think there is.

I don't seek to find fault with Michelle Kwan, I DO find fault with her overall approach this year, and starting with not being in any GP events, basically implying she was out, then going in, ostensibly for the USFSA, under their pressure (I also found the USFSA's position that the event depended on Kwan for a draw insulting to A.P. and Jenny). Since she skated at Skate America, and this was ultimately her own choice, and knew if she won that she might qualify for the GPF, now I find it faulty that there is any question about her going, which there is as posted in the first post of this thread. There is no question as to the others who qualified, and if there were, aside from injury, I would be equally concerned.

I also think Kwan should have skated two events, like everyone else, since she showed up for one.

If she were a firey competitor she would be dieing to go, IMHO. Instead, there is the distinct impression that she seems to want to have her cake and eat it too, and I do find that behavior "faulty" and believe I'd find it faulty by ANYONE, even Sasha.

spiralsrfun

12-11-2002, 01:39 PM

lol...this thread is getting too funny.

JDC1

12-11-2002, 03:11 PM

I say tomato you say tomahto.

Once again, "whatever". :-)

spiralsrfun

12-11-2002, 03:37 PM

I say potato, you say potahto...

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeee

Crystal

12-11-2002, 05:04 PM

Having fun with those eye rolls again, aren't we? I can understand that you are a Michelle fan who thinks everything she does is all good and wonderful. Michelle is god and can do no wrong.

What an easy way to shrug off a persons argument. Just assume bias instead of taking them seriously. I'll have to remember that one.

adrianchew

12-11-2002, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by Halo girl

Having fun with those eye rolls again, aren't we? :roll: I can understand that you are a Michelle fan who thinks everything she does is all good and wonderful. Michelle is god and can do no wrong. :roll

This post was totally inappropriate - please avoid this type of scathing sarcasm in the future. Thanks. ~adrianchew~

nits

12-11-2002, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by AxelAnnie22
What she said was "no comment" - an odd answer for a competitor who has been around for such a long time.

Did she actually SAY "no comment?" What I read on MKF was that she didn't say anything. Did Michelle say this directly to you AA? Was this "no comment" statement in the article posted? The link isn't working for me. But if I remember correctly, what was posted on the MKF was that Michelle did NOT give any answer at all.
Again, I think certain people are really dwelling on this and making it into something it isn't.
Besides Sasha, which other skaters have told the media/interviewers they are going to the GPF?

AxelAnnie22

12-12-2002, 03:42 AM

Originally posted by nits
Did she actually SAY "no comment?" What I read on MKF was that she didn't say anything. Did Michelle say this directly to you AA? Was this "no comment" statement in the article posted? I read that in an interview with the press in Japan, she was asked twice if she was going to compete at the GPF. The first question she answered with "no comment'", and the second she deferred to Mr. Goldberg.

It is my understanding that one of the conditions for participating in the GP Series is that you skate in the final, if you qualify. I would assume that other skaters simply have not been asked the question because A., It is assumed they will participate as part of their agreement with the ISU, or B., Michelle, skating in Skate America under such special circumstances, and qualifying for the GPF, left the question to be asked.