Ice Wars airing 11/30/02. Did Surya Bonaly seem young?

[FSWer]

Say guys, is it just me, or did Surya Bonaly seem really young there? Did anyone else catch this?

[Toepoint]

Surya seemed like her usual self. I want to know what is going on with Tara Lipinski? She looks anorexic. She looked so bad to me. She was already small. Also did you guys see her grabing her hip once she sat down after her artistic skate? Poor Girl!:(

[Mistyeyed]

She probably is getting stressed from wondering if her body will let her skate again like she knows she can. Look at the little jumper she used to be, now she is in so much pain and can barely perform it seems. Imagine being a Oly. Gold medal skater and yet, not be able to skate the way you want too and at such a young age when she could be really giving the skating world something to talk about. This must be horrible for her.

[Toepoint]

Tara should hand up the blades and go to school. She could still skate for fun. She needs to take some time off for sure.

[dbell]

I thought the "world team" was robbed, loved Maria's Shakira number and felt sorry for Tara. She just looked so fragile out there. Her artistic number to Josh Groban was beautiful, but it was sad to watch her afterwards. :(

[nits]

Maybe Tara is depressed. She has been injured off and on since '98, and this must be difficult for Tara. Of course, this is not fact, so I hope nobody takes it as such.
I work with many clients that become depressed during times of injury and as a result they have a hard time eating, lose weight...etc...
Maybe she isn't anorexic at all. Maybe she's just going through a hard time?
I agree she looks very thin.

[Kemy]

I don't think the World team was robbed in the Maria vs Tara head to head. Maria was placed higher, which I agree with. Maria was GREAT! I've never liked her, but after this, I'll be watching for what she does. Ave maria sucked, but the Shakira number was super.

I thought that Taras marks for the technical mark were too HIGH! That's where I thought the World team was robbed of points. The 9.6's were dead on. Tara had her required 2 triple jumps, but what happened to the combination jump that was required. Am I blind here because I thought I heard the announcer say that it was great that Tara hit all her required elements. When I heard that I was definitely confused. 8O

[lrngsk8-gabi]

While I felt badly for Tara's problems with her body - she most certainly did not look anorexic. I think that gets bandied about a bit much these days. Matter of fact her butt muscles looked extremely well developed and that is verrrry good for hip stabilization whereas extra weight would not be helpful at all...g

[lrngsk8-gabi]

dbell - I agree that the World team wuzzz robbed - it was a Scott Hamilton cheese showcase.

I thought every skater did terrific except Bobek and Scott who IMO did not even have any integrity out there. At least Tara gave it a decent try...

Maria, BrianB, Kurt, Ilia and Surya were very impressive...g

[donnamarie]

In the technical program, Maria was her usual tense self, but it was great to see her smiling so much in the long program, and getting the marks she deserved. I love her new program, I've never seen her enjoy herself so much. I was afraid that the judges would put Tara first no matter what she did, which they usually do, and almost did again, so it was nice to see Maria win some judges.

I think the world team was undermarked too ... especially Ilia. There was no need to give him 5.7's and Brian 5.9's. If they had given Ilia 5.8's, still putting him behind Brian, the world team would have won.

I loved both of Brian's programs. He's really become versatile and creative in his old age 8-) I also liked Nicole's Cirque de Soleil program, and would have put her ahead of Surya. All of Surya's programs, not to mention her costumes and her choreography, look the same to me year after year. "I Will Survive" was a good crowd-rouser, which probably helped her.

It was great to see Scott compete again, although sad to see him fall, which once was a rare thing. I never liked the golf program, and I was disappointed that he used two old programs and couldn't come up with anything new.

[Bailey]

ITA, Ilia was very undermarked and the whole show was definately around Scott Hamilton. As great as he is, I've seen those numbers before and he didn't really land any jumps. For Tara, I was very sad and worried as I watched her skate. She has definately lost weight, and though I tried to enjoy her problems I was worrying throughout both programs about the weight loss. Hope this time to heal the injury finds her healthy and strong when she returns to the ice.

[jcspkbfan]

My $0.02 on last night's Ice Wars broadcast:

Did Maria and Nicole go shopping together before the competition? :lol:

Ugh, I thought I'd never have to listen to that horrible cover version of "I Will Survive" Fusar-Poli and Margalio used for their FD last year ever again!

Figaro has always been one of my favorite Scott Hamilton programs, so I was happy to see him pull it out of the mothballs for this event. I never realized the significance of this particular program (it was the last number Scott skated before he was diagnosed with cancer) until Verne pointed it out to us...it made watching this number even more emotional.

Speaking of Scott, did anyone else find some of his comments last night (specifically his first interview and his final remark about wanting to skate more than he has during the past few years) really ironic considering he's currently a "special guest star" in this year's SOI show? Be careful what you wish for, Scott--it just might come true! ;) I also think some of Scott's comments in his first interview (especially the part about him retiring from SOI) could have been edited out since they're now outdated (LOL!) Then CBS wouldn't have had to chack Nicole's first program...I think that was the first time CBS chacked a U.S. team skater over a World Team skater!

I was really impressed with both of Maria's programs last night . I didn't really care much for her one way or the other as an eligible, but I thought she was able to pull off two very different programs equally well here...too bad we won't be able to see more of her as a pro. :(

I also really liked Tara's first number--very edgy and quite a departure from anything I've ever seen her or any other female skater do! Her second program was nice, but it looked very similar choreographically to Color Of Roses to me. Maybe that's just because she was wearing the same costume. Hopefully Tara can fully recover from her hip injury and whatever other problems she might have...I'm hoping the hip injury is the only problem she has since that sounds like quite enough to deal with without any other problems on top of it! I'd love to see her perform both these programs to their full potential someday!

I didn't get to see Ilia's first number or either of Brian's programs because I was watching the second half of Kurt's "Gotta Skate" broadcast on the W network, but what I saw, I liked.

I really loved Kurt's new program (surprise, surprise!) I read in one of the recently-published articles about his Gotta Skate show that this song reminded Kurt of his mother who passed away two years ago, so that made this number even more emotional for me. I was also happy to see Kurt pull "Crash" out of the mothballs for this event--it's one of my favorite programs of his and he's only skated it in two other events (2000 Canadian SOI and 2000 Ice Wars), so of course I was happy about seeing it again!

BTW. this event was co-produced by Scott Hamilton Productions, which may explain why it seemed like a "Scott lovefest" in parts. ;) I also have a feeling the final result of this event would have been different if Kurt had been paired head-to-head with anyone except Scott! (The world team had been leading up to that final matchup!) I thought both of them acted very classy in the final kiss-and-cry interview, though--I wonder where Kurt got that T-shirt of Scott??

And yes, it's nice to get some final confirmation that yes, Katia and Ilia are indeed married! :)

[Alexeiskate]

I too felt the World Team was robbed.

Maria looked great last night. I would have given her unanimous first place for her artistic program over Tara's. She attacked the program and the dance moves were interesting. Whereas I felt Tara's Gosh Groban program was the same old generic balletic program that have been seen many times before, and she didn't have the technical content. Tara should also had a larger point deduction in the technical portion for not doing a combination.

I loved Brian's first number. His second number had too many two-foot skating and posing. The artistic scores between him and Ilia should have been much, much closer than they were.

I'm sure the judges were happy to see Scott competes again, but Scott was rusty last night. The judges were just throwing out sentimal marks for Scott's artistic program that were undeserved. I saw the disbelief etched on Maria's face when it was announced that the USA team won, and I totally sympathized with her.

[scooter133]

I have two Ice Wars-related questions:

1) Is this where Maria officially lost her eligibility?

2) Is this the only pro-only competition this year?

[Amy L]

Scooter, I'm pretty sure the answer to both of your questions is "yes".

[donnamarie]

They announced that this was Maria's first pro competition. So, I guess it is yes. She did well ~

[lrngsk8-gabi]

Hey Donnamarie - waving here :D

I'm curious. How come you liked Nicole's performance? This is a genuine ?? as I am wondering whether I'm just so PO'd at her that I'm missing something. She did hit some very nice positions but I expect that of Nicole...g

[lBrokenAnkle]

To answer the original question, I thought Surya looked relaxed and carefree, I suppose that could mean young.

About the issue of Tara being thin, she didn't look that different to me. To be honest the skater who looks painfully thin to me is Sasha Cohen, could be why she seems to have stamina problems. Or she could just naturally be that way. Hopefully Tara's general health is good.

As far as the competition, or show, whatever you call it, I also thought Ilia and Kurt were undermarked, it was obvious their programs, jumps aside, were very difficult. But OTOH, all four of their programs left me cold. The moves, difficult as they were seemed forced and not in keeping with the spirit of the music they chose. I never felt Ilia was terribly musical anyway. but I was disappointed with Kurt. But they should have gpotten credit for the difficulty.

Scott and Brian were the highlights for me. I had never seen Figaro before, so it seemed fresh and funny to me. Scott is such a natural comedian, there is no 'look at how funny I am" feel to him. The golf program was cute too. And Brian (with the exception of the cigar lighting thingy) just seems like all his moves are spontaneous and he gives the impression that he just enjoys the skating and is taking the audience along for the ride.

As far as the women, I liked Nicole better than I have in a while, there was a more haunting feel to her program instead of the usual showgirl stuff. Loved the costume too, not sure what thay says about me, though. Maria, well, she looked the same old Maria, except for teh really grea new 'do, I loved that. Stiff knees, failing arms, trite interpretation. Iagree she belonged placed ahead of Tara, but not by much.

Except for knowing that Tara was in pain ahead of time, I was pleasantly surprised, as she is another skater I find unmusical, but Paint it Black was the best thing I recall seeing her do, she seemed for the first time to lose herself in the music. It is tragic that she is going through more injury when I think she may have made an artistic breakthrough. Surya was, well, unmemorable.

All just IMHO,

Laura

[roogu]

What JOsh Groban song did Tara skate to?

[Mayra]

Originally posted by jcspkbfan


I also really liked Tara's first number--very edgy and quite a departure from anything I've ever seen her or any other female skater do!


I did too. I think once Tara gets herself healthy, it will be a great number for her. 8-)

[Simka]

Tara skated to Josh Groban's "To Where You Are".

[donnamarie]

Gabi - hi - why did I like Nicole's program? I'm trying to remember :) I liked the costume ... and the music ... overall I just enjoyed it, I guess. I seem to like about half of her programs. Loved Cabaret, didn't like Moulin Rouge, loved Natural Woman, etc. Just a personal reaction, but I give her credit for always having new programs every year, new costumes and new choreography. You can't say that about everyone.

[donnamarie]

Re: Tara's Paint it Black program, I like the music, and the costume, and she skated well enough, but for me Tara's artistry doesn't seem authentic. For one thing, nowadays she skates too much like Kurt; it's a pet peeve of mine when people imitate other people - I want to see originality. And even though Tara has worked hard on her presentation, and she has a very smooth presentation style now, it doesn't do much for me. I liked her skating better when she was a fiery little jumping bean :)

(Now on the other hand, even though Sasha's footwork is strongly reminiscent of Yagudin's, I really like it. It's so unusual to see strong and passionate footwork from the women. Plushenko, on the other hand, is so obviously trying to over-emote in order to out-emote Yagudin, that it's a turn-off. I think he's so talented, but please, he needs a choreographer who can find the right programs for him - which I thought Cabaret was. His middle musical interlude - long program - is just hideous right now. Okay I have now wandered way off track, but in my mind it all makes sense :) )

[meli]

I don't think Tara looked anorexic at all. She's always been small and I think she will always be small no matter what. She may not have lost weight but may have lost muscle mass because of the layoff due to the injuries, so that may make her look like she's lost weight to some of you.

I have been really impressed with Ilia as a professional skater because he's willing to take chances with artistry. Verne was very astute in pointing out the Gary Beacom influence on Ilia's program, but I'm more impressed with what appeared to be a triple Axel done from an almost stopped position. It looked like he was simply standing there on the ice and suddenly leapt up and did it. Amazing.

Brian was awesome, and the fact he's 39 and can still do that is awesome. Brian's at his best when he's either doing opera or those jazzy Nat King Cole/Frank Sinatra/Harry Connick numbers where he can just let you believe he's Gene Kelly. And was it just my imagination, or was Brian actually doing FOOTWORK???

[lrngsk8-gabi]

Thanks DonnaM - those were good points, I guess I'm still snitting about her work ethic 8O ...g

[karina1974]

Originally posted by Mistyeyed
She probably is getting stressed from wondering if her body will let her skate again like she knows she can. Look at the little jumper she used to be, now she is in so much pain and can barely perform it seems. Imagine being a Oly. Gold medal skater and yet, not be able to skate the way you want too and at such a young age when she could be really giving the skating world something to talk about. This must be horrible for her.

Yeah. What I find really sad is that she was skating in a competition with two guys who are twice her age, and still landing the jumps they did in their amateur days while she, at only 20, can barely do triples anymore. Certainly not the 3-loop combos that were her trademark. Yet we can still see Brian's 'Tano Lutz and Scott's brilliant showmanship at ages 38 and 44, long after they achieved their Olympic glory. She is a textbook case as to why triples should be limited, even quads for men should be limited before we lose all the top skaters to injury. Careers are just going to keep getting shorter at this rate.:cry:

[Sing_Alto]

I totally agree, karina1974.

I've been saying this for at least the past 8 years. There is far too much emphasis on the jumps, and the skaters are paying for it. I've been a skating fan for about 15 years, and sure skaters have always had injuries, but in recent years the list of skaters with severe injuries has grown. Elvis is a classic example. He's only 30, but his amateur career was more or less over at 26 because of injuries. If the powers that be in the amateur skating world really cared about these kids (more than they do about $$$$), they'd lower the limit on triples and quads.

SingAlto, stepping down from her soapbox... :)

[duane]

Originally posted by karina1974
She is a textbook case as to why triples should be limited, even quads for men should be limited before we lose all the top skaters to injury. Careers are just going to keep getting shorter at this rate.

i totally disagree.

injuries are the norm for athletes of any sport...football, basketball, baseball, wrestling, gymnastics, tennis. i dont know why people think that figure skaters are exempt.

personally, i think the reason some skaters suffer very serious injury has less to do with the supposed "emphasis on jumps", and perhaps more to do with the training regimen of those skaters. i mean, why is tara suffering from such a serious hip injury, but, say, midori--whose jumps included the 3axel and 3/3 combos--isnt? why has urmanov suffered from a serious groin injury, but kulik hasnt? michelle has consistently landed 7-triple programs for 7 seasons, and she has been spared serious injury.

i think tara's situation is so sad. still, i dont think limiting triples is the solution to prevent similar situations in the future.

[lBrokenAnkle]

I total agree with Duane!

I do think there are a lot of injuries and seeing Tara at Ice Wars was almost tragic. I am very concerned about Yaguden as well.

But... I am not at all convinced that the quad and the triple triples in and of themselves are the villains. I think these jumps can be an integrated part of skating if a couple of things happen. Coaches need to talk to sports medicine specialists and find out how to train them properly, including how to warm up, built up strength, and a reasonable schedule of training.I suspect that many of the coaches are training quads they was they used to train for doubles and it looks t=like what works for one does not necessarily work for the other. Also very important: not to rush, especially with skaters who have not gone through puberty. After that, the skaters, coaches and parents need to work out a reasonable schedule of competitions, shows, training and REST. I am not ready to jettison the jumps until I see some skaters attack their training for them with more care. New techniques, new equipment, and common sense, I think, can keep the jumps in the sport.

Laura

[Yazmeen]

Duane makes a good point. Unfortunately, the only person Tara can really blame for the state she is in is herself--she has admitted to basically ignoring warmups when she was an eligible, obsessively jumping over and over (I believe she used to insist on landing five of every triple at each practice) and just punishing her body. While I'm sure some blame lies with her coaches and perhaps her parents, it has been well documented that Tara was very headstrong about her skating. Even now, she went back on the ice after her most recent surgery before the doctors wanted her to. She is an Olympic champion, but it came with a very heavy price, and I'm not really sure it was worth it. I doubt she will be skating at age 30, much less 39 or 44, and she is likely to have severe joint problems as she ages, much earlier than the average person. To quote the cliche: What price, glory? You can't just blame the jumps--skaters like Boitano, Orser, Yamaguchi, Kwan and others have proven that skaters can keep up their skills as long as they take care of themselves in the process.

[lrngsk8-gabi]

Originally posted by Yazmeen
Duane makes a good point. Unfortunately, the only person Tara can really blame for the state she is in is herself--

And I don't believe I've ever heard her BLAME anyone. Even if she had, we all make choices, some of which are worth it to us in the end some aren't. When someone is a minor others can sometimes influence those choices but other than that we are all bottom line on our own.

AND other than that, as usual I agree with Duane - hi guy :lol: ...g

[Kruss]

Nicole's program is actually an old one from around 95-96-97 - somewhere around there. Different costume a bit of different choreography in places (like the beginning), but the same program. I always liked that program.

[meli]

I meant to mention Nicole's program in my original post. I've always liked that program for her, and I love that piece of Cirque du Soleil music.

One thing I wish the announcers would do more often would be to mention if it's an older program that a skater hasn't shown in awhile. Yes it would be new to people who didn't see it before, but I think it would be nice for long-term fans of the sport to not have to sit there and think "Gee this looks familiar, where have I seen this before?"