Anyone NOT happy about B&K's decision?

[Isabelle]

It seems like everyone is thrilled to have Shae-Lynn and Victor eligable for one more season. I thought before they announced it that I would be happy either way, but when I heard they were staying amateur (and this seems like a while ago so I don't know why I'm posting about it now :? ) I was disappointed.

I used to love their skating, and I still enjoy it, but after the 1999 season they lost a lot of their appeal to me. Mostly I'm mad because I mean, how many times have they won Nationals, and for how many years have they been completely overshadowing all the other Canadian dance teams?? The media pays almost no attention to any of the other teams (I remember CTV even did a profile on Shae-Lynn and Victor at a competition they weren't even in, and there were 3 other Canadian dance teams there!!) and we have some really good teams. (Marie-France and Patrice, Megan and Aaron, Josée and Pascal, Tara and Tyler...) It doesn't matter what they do, with the way the skating world works, they'll win Canadians no matter what.

I think they are holding back the other talented dancers we have in Canada, and I feel like it's definately time for them to move on and give some other people a chance. Anyone else?

[olivia]

It's true, B&K have been on the eligible scene for some time. I can also understand becoming tired with a skater or skating team. But, IMO, it's also true that B&K have been the class of the field as far as Canadian ice dancing teams are concerned. Clearly, if another team came along that could match or beat B&K, B&K wouldn't still be the reigning national champs. In other words, I don't believe B&K are holding anyone back. I think it's a question of quality and lack of depth in the ice dancing ranks. The US has the same issue with respect to its ice dancing teams and its pairs teams. If Ina & Zimmerman turned pro, for instance, of course the US would have new national champs, but it's rather doubtful that any of the current up and coming pairs (that have placed below I&Z in the past) could medal at international competitions, as I&Z have done.

Take nationality out of the equation. Say, for instance, Sale/Pelletier were Americans. I&Z probably wouldn't have a national title. Likewise, if Michelle Kwan was Canadian, Jennifer Robinson probably wouldn't have a national title either. It really has nothing to do with holding anyone back, IMO. It's just a question of quality and depth in the ranks.

O-

[Lise]

I agree with Olivia. Shae and Vic are way ahead of the other teams in Canada. The gap has been shortened a bit by Dubrueil and Lauzon however, Shae and Vic edges, flow and speed not to mention footwork can not be beat at Nationals. They are certainly not holding anybody back-instead, they are allowing the other teams to develop and gain experience in order for us to continue to send 2 or 3 teams to Worlds.

I feel that they (D & L) put to much emphasis on lifts and not enough on their footwork. They also need to work on speed.

Megan and Aaron are great as well, however, I feel that if they do not make a breakthrough this year, they will be passed by 1 or 2 of our junior teams like Flynn and Gislason who remind me a lot of a younger Shae and Vic because of their soft flowing edges.

This year's nationals are going to be different...

Lise

[Shae & Vic Forever]

As good as Marie France and Patrice are, they're not B&K yet. :wink:

Shae and Vic are head and shoulders above the rest of the Canadian competition. and hey if you can still compete and win fairly, why not? That goes for even the teams/skaters that I can't stand like FP/M or if Pasha Grishuk came back...because I"m sure she'd be able to win again with the talent she has. But I've gotten myself off topic again :oops:

Anyway, D/L have a Canadian title and I'm sure they'll get another one. They're just not quite ready for prime time yet. They need another year or so. Who knows. Once they step up and prove they can skate with the big boys and girls THEN maybe it'll be their time. They're far from podium bound at the moment though worldwise I'm afraid. :cry:

[~RL~]

I'm not disappointed at all that they stayed eligible. I agree with everyone who's said that Shae & Vic are the class of the field in terms of ice dance in Canada, and while I love D&L they're just not quite at B&K's level yet. I don't agree with the argument that skaters (or any athelete for that matter) should step aside to give others their chance. As long as B&K want to compete and can remain competitive, they have every right to stay eligible and keep competing, even if it does make it harder for the athletes below them. They shouldn't have to step aside so D&L or anyone else can have their turn. We're lucky in Canada to have some great ice dance teams, and there's no reason why there can't be room for all of them.

[VGL]

I agree with Lise and the others. Canada has 3 spots for Worlds next year and with B&K staying elligible, has a good chance of maintaining those spots for 2004 Worlds. Somehow I don't see D&L, W&L and Piche & Denis (based on 2002 CDN's) keeping those 3 spots.

[Isabelle]

I understand what everyone is saying, but I actually think that Marie-France and Patrice are as good as Shae-Lynn and Victor (and better at some things. I saw the compulsories at Canadians this year and Shae-Lynn's mohawk section of the Rav was hopped and they pulled away a lot at the hips on the 3-turn swing end pattern whereas Marie and Patrice skated very smoothly and closer together with just as deep edges, good extensions, and expression) and if judged fairly they would be higher in the world standings. Also, if Megan and Aaron got the chance to go to Worlds (again), and were judged fairly, they would make the top 10. Even possibly Josée and Pascal, Tara and Tyler. Also, Shae-Lynn and Victor may have *more* footwork than Marie-France and Patrice but they don't have more speed (have you seen their straight line sequence live? They are usually really slow on that!!), and they don't have much more difficulty in their programs. Marie-France and Patrice may not have their feet going fast all the time, but they seem to have much better control and are a lot more versitile. (and to state the obvious, harder lifts) I'm not bashing Shae-Lynn and Victor, I really do like them, I just think that the gap between the top 2 teams in Canada isn't as big as most people seem to think.

PS. Shae & Vic Forever -- Are you saying that Barbara and Maurizio win FAIRLY????!!!!

[Lise]

Sorry Isabelle but I am politely disagreeing with you.

I was at Nationals last year and the year before and it is obvious that Shae and Vic are faster but they also have more complex footwork. The tv does not do them justice-with just 2-3 strokes, Shae and Vic are across the rink! Yes, Marie-France and Patrice may do a few parts of the compulsories better than Shae and Vic but overall, their skating needs a little something extra in order to match or beat Shae and Vic. They are not there yet.

I understand your point of view regarding Marie-France and Patrice, but I agree with the person that I don't see Canada maintaining 3 spots with D&L, W&L and P&D.

Lise

[Shae & Vic Forever]

I'm sure Babs and Marizio have won SOMETHING fairly

But anyway, I disagree that D/L have more speed...the straightline sequence B/K did at Canadians in the OD was faster than anybody else in the competition. Honestly they do have better speed. Also they have much better ice coverage than Marie France and Patrice.

Marie France and Patrice have very good and interesting innovative lifts. However I think they focus too much on them sometimes.

I do not think it's fair to say they're better than B/K. D/L have been held down at world level competition yes, but they're not podium worthy in those competitions yet. They have quite a few things needed to be worked on.

We'd be living in a dream world if all Canadian ice dancers were in the top 10 as you say they should be :lol:

[Xiaoxue]

I agree with Isabelle that D/L are more pleasant to watch during the ODs. They seem to express themselves much better. B/K always seem so tentative and nervous. I think this is where D/L really show off their classical training, in terms of expression and presentation. I have never seen them compete live, so i can't comment on their technical execution.

However, i do agree with the rest who have said that B/K have way better footwork. I don't know if D/L are not capable of footwork, or if maybe their choreographer doesn't know how to choreograph footwork. What i mean is, in the programs of A/P and D/L (they share the same Chorg) I often see lots of really good edging and lifts, but not programs that are chock-full (sp?) of intricate and fast foot work. B/K and G/P are teams that have always had programs that are very demanding in this aspect.

As for Wing/Lowe, what i've seen of them both on tv and live, i doubt they could crack the top 12, let alone the top 10 at worlds. They have less speed than both B/K and D/L, and their basic skating is just not yet at the level of D/L. I really admire W/L for staying in the sport after all these years of being 3rd in Canada. But i just don't see them moving ahead of D/L in the future.

[lrng to skt]

Well B/K may be the best in Canada and they really have nothing to loose by staying in.

But frankly - I'm really tired of seeing them and really tired of all the same old same old fuss.

Years ago I liked them and have held out hope for them improving but I feel they long reached their peek and it isn't at all what I would have hoped for.

Unless they change miraculously I really don't care to ever see them again...and they will take up space in TV coverage. Therefore, if I'm only going to see a few teams in Dance, I don't want B/K to be one of them...g

[bootlace]

I for one I`m very happy that they are staying another year!B&K are the best dance team in Canada and are holding no one back.How are they holding back other teams?Are you suggesting that the results are predetermined or that B&K are being judged on their reputation?They win because they are far better ice dancers then the rest of the field in Canada.All though I do enjoy D&L very much,but they are not in the same league as B&K!

[Artistic Skaters]

I'm not happy about it but I'm not unhappy about it either. I guess I am apathetic about their decision just as I am indifferent about their skating.

[Helen4]

I for one want to see what they come up with this upcoming season.
They don't do the same thing all the time like other skaters do.
Every year something is different.
Don't you just love "The Dance"

[Isabelle]

Bootlace -- Yes I am actually saying that Shae-Lynn and Victor are being judged IN PART on their reputation. I'm not saying they DEFINATELY shouldn't win, but I'm saying that it shouldn't be as definate that they'll win as it is right now. I actually remember that my coach (who is a dance coach by the way) went to see Canadians in Ottawa (I guess that would be 1999) and she said that Shae-Lynn and Victor should've been 4th!!!! And she definately knows what she's talking about.
As for Shae-Lynn and Victor holding other teams back, I mean it in the sense that Marie-France and Patrice are Canada's 2nd ranked team and there is a lot of speculation that they will make a jump in the world standings when Shae-Lynn and Victor retire and they are Canada's number 1 team. Also, no we probably wouldn't secure 3 spots again for Worlds this year if Shae-Lynn and Victor went pro, but it WOULD give another "new" team a chance to have experience at a World Championship.

Xiaoxue -- I didn't say that I thought Megan and Aaron would ever be better than Marie-France and Patrice. Although I think Megan and Aaron are very good, they will never be as good as our top 2 teams and I think if they stay in much longer they will be passed by other teams. They just don't have "it".

Also, I will admit that I went a LITTLE over-board saying that Megan and Aarom, Josée and Pascal, Tara and Tyler could possibly make the top 10 at Worlds....I mean they are very good and it's POSSIBLE, but I'm sure there are other lesser-known teams from other countries that I don't remember or don't know about who would come ahead of them. But just for the record, I'm still going to stick to everything else I've said.

Oh, and also thanks to everyone for keeping their disagreements in control and not turning into bashing! :)

[Sparkey]

Here`s my opinion, go ahead and bash it, but I`ll be honest: I would have liked to see three or four of the top teams retire! Why? To give some younger teams a chance. I know that ice dancing is like this all over...but it seems like any young people who want to compete in this sport will have to wait fifteen years for their moment in the spotlight. I mean, when 16-year-olds can go to worlds and olympics in the other disciplines, ice dancers have to wait a long time...is it just me, or are ice dancers among the oldest folks at the olympics? How many kids put their hearts and souls into this sport all through their school years, and then can't get the funding to continue once they're 20 and all mom and dad's money is gone into their early training? How many Darryl and Kristies and Valerie and Davids are there who just couldn't get past the bottleneck? OK BASH ME! :evil:

[Isabelle]

Sparkey, I will definately not bash you because I actually sort of agree with you! Of course, as you can probably tell by my other posts, I wouldn't want Marie-France and Patrice to retire, but I know what you mean about people having to wait around forever to get to the top. It seems like whoever waits around the longest are the ones who make it to the top, and once you're up there, you're up there for good, which is not the way it should be...
I really have to stop posting on this thread!!! :P

[B and K Fan]

I personally think that it's a good thing for ice dancing in Canada if Shae and Victor stay eligible because it is an awesome experience for the young kids coming up to be skating on the same ice with them during practices, competition, etc. Shae and Victor have a presence when they are on the ice; everyone just stops and stares. A lot of young skaters look up to them and want to be just like them. As for comparing Bourne and Kraatz to Dubreuil and Lauzon, I don't know what the argument is about. Shae and Victor are a million times better than Marie-France and Patrice; there is no comparison to be made! As long as Shae and Victor stay in, they will be Canadian champions. :wink:

[ernibear140]

they have improved so much so why leave? they are the only reason why I watch ice dance :P

[Excidra]

I have no problem with Shae and vic staying in, I consider them one of the greatest Ice dancers in the sport.If they were to leave, Canada won't have another B&K for a long time, and i'm a fan of D&L as well. I loved their 'titus' Free program, it was well choreographed, but as few posters mentioned, but as few poster mention, they focus too much on the lifts.
Your weak point, might be your rivals strong point, so I agree that D&L do somethings better then B&K, but B&K are the overal better team and that is what counts.
Ice dance in Canada(my country) would be a joke, if B&K were to leave.
As long as B&K stay in, I will not question who should've won the national title, it belongs to them.

[ss_skater]

I was so thrilled to hear they were staying. They are so amazing, i love their style its a nice change to alot of the more european/dramatic style you see alot of in Ice Dancing, i'm not saying that the European style is bad, i just like the variety B/K bring to the sport. And to be honest with Shae and Vic doing so well every year at worlds, it gives W/L, and D/L a chance to get experience at the worlds, and when time comes for them to take over they will be ready. With Elvis, and J/D going pro this year, it would have been to much to lose B/K too, i can't wait till next year, they are gonna win gold in Washington!!!!!

[lrng to skt]

I guess looking at it from the point of view of coming from Canada or US - it's a good thing.

Canada gets better TV coverage than the US so at least you will get to see them and others. In the US we only see Dance occasionally and then only the very top couples if[/i:52e48e8fa5] they've managed to generate some interest in general.

I can see the coverage here (US) now - B/K, L/T, B/A - and we will have no idea how anyone else is doing. I'm exaggerating, but not by much...g

[professordeb]

Lrng,
Love your tag line. It really represents you :lol: (and myself if I want to be totally honest). Wish I'd think of something so clever. Nice to see you over here!

til later,
Deb

[lrng to skt]

Hey [b:1f73103d31]Deb[/b:1f73103d31] :lol: bless you. Some find me very annoying 8O and I'm not even trying :oops: ...g