Hypothetical Question about S/P and B/K

[md2be]

If Jamie and Dave's funny fall in the short program had happened at the end of their long program instead, would they have won gold? I know that Shae and Vic missed an element due to their fall and subsequently lost a medal, but was just wondering if there would have been a deduction for Jamie and Dave had it happened on the final pose of their long?

Just a topic of discussion on this fine Wed. afternoon.

[leap of faith]

S&P's fall did not hurt their scores or shouldn't have because it was not on a required element.

B&K's fall however was on a lift thus a mandatory deduction had to be taken.

[Shae & Vic Forever]

I really don't think that B/K's fall was the only thing costing them a medal...FP/M weren't really marked down much for their fall. And look at what happened to D/V.

but yes, it's a matter of Jamie and David not falling on an element, they shouldn't be marked down just for a fall at the end.

[md2be]

well, why shouldnt they be marked down? It breaks the asthetics of the program....so whereas Anton is marked down for a technical flaw, S/P would have been marked down for an artistic flaw and their silver would have been warranted.

I guess i just wonder what would have happened if that funny fall came at the end of their long rather than their short....no comparison to B/K can really be made (and I understood that from the start of this topic).

[Shae & Vic Forever]

obviously the judges didn't think it inturruped the flow of the program...it was comedic after all. Considering they recieved the highest presentation marks of the night. :lol:

[md2be]

but what if it had happened in the long program, when the programs were so closely scored? would it have made a difference there?

[Shae & Vic Forever]

can we really honestly say though? because of what we know now with possible collusion it's almost impossible to predict. If the collusion is true, then no, even if they went out there and did side by side quintuple axels they wouldn't have won. :x

[Dustin]

If that fall was at the end of their long program, I believe that they would not have been able to justify that they should have won the program because, even with the fall, it still detracts from the overall impression of the performance.

I belive that S&P should have won that night, but if I was a judge and they fell (even at the very end), I would have given it to B&S. If B&S would have had made a bigger mistake then they did and the gap was not as small, I would need to reconsider. However, because of how close it actually was, I think B&S would have been the undisputed winners.

[jcspkbfan]

I actually think this was one of the reasons why S&P decided not to perform Orchid at the Olympics--can you imagine what would have happened if they had skated a flawless performance of that number at the Olympics, David would have reacted the same way as during 2001 Worlds and the end of Love Story, and dropped poor Jamie (by accident, of course!) during that lift they used in the final pose. Not a pretty thought...

Love Story, OTOH, had a much less risky ending--David's on his knees while Jamie slowly glides backwards away from him. A much lesser possibility of falling there, I think...

[AJ Skatefan]

I don't see how winning the short program would have made a difference. The scoring is such that whoever in the top three wins the free program wins the whole thing. So doesn't anyone in the top three have an equal chance of winning?

[gandalf]

But we're not talking about the SP, we're talking about "what if the fall had happened at the end of the LP INSTEAD of the SP".

If they had fallen at the end of the LP, even if it wasn't on an element, it would have ruined the ending (a fall would have been much more costly at the end of Love Story than in the SP because of the mood of the program) and the win by B&S would have been far less controversial.

[loveskating]

First, no deductions in the LP except for rule violations...soooo...just accumulation of credit, right?

Such a fall as that, basically on a pose, is usually only marked for presentation...if its so that they got the highest presentation marks of the night in the SP, one can conclude they were not marked down for the fall on a pose at all since B&S were perfect in the SP.

If S&P had made any serious mistake in the LP, what occurred in the aftermath never could have occurred.

[Scott]

A Fall at the end o fthe program such as you suggest could have hurt the artistic mark and could have lowered their marks. This was such a close competition that even the slightest slip up would cost something. It would have to. Look at the Russian's slip up it was not that major and everybody wanted them to loose the gold despite the fact that their program was more difficult.

[Snowflake3939]

What really bothers me the most is that if Jamie and David had even the slightest flaw in their long program, none of the collusion would have come to light and the ISU would have just gone on as usual - in denial!

[memememe76]

Jamie and David ended their program with a pairs spin so if they fell during it, the judges should definitely take it into account. They truly end the program with David crouching and Jamie sliding away from him. So if David fell, I don't see it being that big a deal since he was down anyway. If Jamie fell backwards, that might be a big deal, I suppose. It'd just be weird to imagine falling when you're doing nothing-:).