94 olympics ice dance

[catija]

i'd missed the ice dance competition that yr, but could anyone tell me who finished in first, second or third for the compulsory, OD, and FD?

Also..i read soemwhere that grishuk and platov won the europeans..but then i read somewhere else that torvill and dean had won that yr...who won?! :)

[Ellyn]

(from memory, I might be slightly wrong about the Euros CDs or which was the result for the first vs. second CD at both events)

Euros
2 3 1 2 Torvill & Dean
3 2 3 1 Grishuk & Platov
1 1 2 3 Usova & Zhulin

Olympics
1 2 3 1 Grishuk & Platov
2 1 2 2 Usova & Zhulin
3 3 1 3 Torvill & Dean

[catija]

what an interesting show down!!!! :) did anyone fall in either segments?

also...did torvill and dean end up winning euros ? or perhaps its grischuk and platov?

poor usova..i'm sure she'd wanted to beat grischuk after the 'catfight'. its kind of a slap in the face for both teams when G&P came on top (which was a nice thing...as i liked them for a while) :)

[Aaron W]

Torvill & Dean won Europeans that year. Here are the factored placements:

2 3 1 2 Torvill & Dean

0.4 + 0.6 + 0.6 + 2.0 = 3.6 (1st overall)
____________________

3 2 3 1 Grishuk & Platov

0.6 + 0.4 + 1.8 + 1.0 = 3.8 (2nd overall)
____________________

1 1 2 3 Usova & Zhulin

0.2 + 0.2 + 1.2 + 3.0 = 4.6 (3rd overall)

[catija]

ouch! soooo close :) thanks for the response!!

[Twizzler]

As I recall, T & D were leading at Euros and won but G & P won the free dance. FIrst of all, movement like this among the top dance teams was unheard of at the time. Second, the free dance placement led T & D to go back to the drawing board and totatlly revamp their FD. The revamped one is the one shown at the Olympics. However, their Rhumba OD was (make that is) one of the most elegant sophisticated beautiful ODs ever (next to their Paso Doble OSP). It clearly was a quantum leap over the other ODs and they got 1st place in this section at the Olympics, the only 1st they received in that event.

Ditto about Usova. It most of really hurt to be beat by your competitor off the ice.

[catija]

does anyone have the link to see the marks from the 94 olympics portionof the ice dance?

poor torvill and dean...i guess they shouldn't have revamped their FD? What did you guys think? I heard there was supposedly an illegal lift...is that true?

[Rachel]

Dean flipped Torvill over his head, which some of the judges considered an illegal move. I believe there was a rule that said the man couldn't lift the woman so her waist (or was it hips?) was above his head.

T&D's first FD was extremely difficult technically, I understand, but was not considered dancy enough or entertaining enough--I forget which. So they did revamp it and I thought it was a mistake, although I can't say that I think they would have won, anyway. Say what you will about Pasha and Splatov, they were truly amazing ice dancers.

And I find it hilarious that everyone feels sorry for Maya for having to skate AGAINST Pasha. I would think it would have been harder to have skated WITH Sasha Zhulin, and that if there was any slapping to do, it should have been on a cheek that needed a shave. But then I have never understood why animosity is directed at the person the adulterer is having an affair with, rather than the adulterer.

[catija]

good point! :)

is alexander zhulin now w/ navka? she reminds me of maya all the way...isn't that a little freaky?

aldo..i 'heard' pasha and maya once had a fight in some club? what's the deal w/ that? :) it's so soap opera-ish

[Rachel]

LOL!

Maya waltzed up to Pasha in a restaurant or bar and either banged Pasha's head on the bar or slammed her face into a bowl of soup or a drink, depending on the version you hear.

The story was so famous that Dick Button once made some jokes about Pasha and a bowl of soup during a competition broadcast. I doubt that most people in the viewing audience got it, but fans on the internet were laughing over it for days.

Edited to add: Yes, Zhulin is still with Navka.

[catija]

omg...its really true?!!! 8O poor pasha!

also...what went on between her and platov? how come he's skating w/ maya now? don't tell me platov fell in love w/ maya. how complicated is this going to be? lol...

[Orable]

Platov and Usova are just friends (and have been ever since they were kids skating together at the same club). Apparently, Evgeny didn't appreciate Pasha's affair with Zhulin, and adding to that the fact that she's probably not the easiest person to deal with day in and day out, I'm not surprised that G/P split up their partnership after they left the eligible ranks. (It's an insane story isn't it?? much better than any soap opera on tv!!!)

Cheers, Orable

[duane]

one would think that zhulin would have been the one who received the brunt of usova's anger (and perhaps he did...we just havent read about it). but actually, her attacking grishuk--the woman who had the affair with her husband--seems typical. it seems whenever one of my female friends finds out that her husband/boyfriend is fooling around on her, her anger is more directed towards the "slut" or "hoochie" who slept with her man than it is towards her husband/boyfriend!

regarding t&d's FD, many people felt they were "robbed" in 94. i've never felt that way. i LOVED their rhumba, but didnt like their FD at all. to me, it just seemed choppy, and didnt flow. it seemed less of an ice "dance", and more as if they were saying "ok, now we're going to do another difficult trick...and now another...and another." i thought grishuk/platov attacked their program, skated with great speed and passion, the program was very intricate, and all they while they appeared to be, well, dancing!

JMHO.

[Aussie Willy]

The first version of T&D's FD from 94 which they did at Europeans was more dancey than the Olympic version. After Europeans they had all sorts of people try to tell them what to do and ended up putting a lot of moves they had done previously in other programs. They personally felt they just should have gone with their original version. But they also really tried to stick with the rules and give the judges what they wanted. The judges claimed they broke the rules with the last lift but G&P also broke a lot of rules in regard to separations (should be only 5 seconds - they were separated for 8 at one point).

I have a really good autobiography of T&D that they wrote together in 95 which goes into great details about their rehearsal process and the way the dance developed. If you can get hold of it it is a great read. It is called "Facing the Music".

I must say I never really enjoyed the 94 FD as much as their earlier dances (Mack & Mabel, Barnum) but it was still a very technically strong dance. I think they FD at the Olympics was much more polished than G&Ps rock n' roll which I thought was rather messy. But on the whole my favourite dances for that year were Rahkamo & Kokko and Moniotte & Lavanchy. I always loved U&Z but I did not think their FD suited them that year.

[Ellyn]

In hindsight, we can say that what T&D should have done after Europeans was

1) Make the free dance a little livelier without replacing the difficult skating content, and not give the judges any excuses for deductions, to make sure they could at least stay ahead of the slower U & Zh there even if they couldn't catch the faster G&P.

2) Brush up the compulsories!

Then they could have repeated the Euros scenario and won the gold with second place in the free dance.

But it's not surprising that they didn't see it that way at the time.

[icenut84]

Originally posted by catija
does anyone have the link to see the marks from the 94 olympics portionof the ice dance?

I don't have a link but I have the competition on tape. These were the marks for the free dance:

Grishuk and Platov -
RUS FIN GBR BLR UKR FRA CZE GER CAN
5.9 5.9 5.7 5.7 5.8 5.9 5.8 5.9 5.9
6.0 5.8 5.8 5.9 5.8 5.9 5.9 5.9 5.9
1 2 3 3 3 1 1 1 1

Usova and Zhulin -
RUS FIN GBR BLR UKR FRA CZE GER CAN
5.8 5.8 5.8 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.8
5.9 5.9 5.8 5.9 5.9 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.9
2 1 2 1 1 2 2 2 2

Torvill and Dean -
RUS FIN GBR BLR UKR FRA CZE GER CAN
5.8 5.7 5.9 5.8 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.6 5.7
5.8 5.9 6.0 5.9 5.9 5.9 5.8 5.9 5.9
3 3 1 2 2 3 3 3 3

I don't have all the marks for the OD, but I do know that Torvill and Dean got 7 5.9s and 2 6.0s for presntation in the OD, and first places across the board apart from the Belorussian judge who had Usova and Zhulin ahead.

poor torvill and dean...i guess they shouldn't have revamped their FD? What did you guys think? I heard there was supposedly an illegal lift...is that true?

After Europeans, although T&D had won the gold, they decided to revamp their free dance because they didn't win that segment (and it's worth the most). In about 3 weeks (between Europeans and Olympics), they totally rechoreographed 80% of their programme. They didn't really want to, I don't think, but they didn't think they had a choice. Their first version was extraordinally technically difficult, but some felt it wasn't as entertaining or showy as it should be. So in the new version, they added elements and moves from past programmes (they didn't have time to make up totally new moves), things that would be more exciting and entertaining to watch. They couldn't have got any more difficult than they had before. T&D both fell ill the week before the competition (IIRC, Dean with food poisoning, Torvill with the flu), and they didn't leave England until they had to. If I'm right, they only ran through the whole programme four times before the actual competition!

There was a massive uproar after the competition. Boos rang out during T&D's marks, and after the competition, apparently a press conference about the marks was called, which was (is?) unheard of. The referee reportedly "blustered and bellowed" defending the judges' marks, but "wouldn't say a word" when confronted with G&P's illegalities. There was lots of for and against stuff. Some of the judges said that a move T&D did at the end was illegal - it involved Dean holding Torvill's hands, and pulling up as she jumped up so she was against his back, then she somersaulted over his head and landed in front of him. Some judges said it was illegal because it was lifting over the head/shoulders, but Dean pointed out that he wasn't actually lifting Torvill or supporting her in any way as she went over his head, it was initiated by her, helped by the momentum as she swung her legs. The somersault was the main argument for the marks anyway. As for Grishuk and Platov, they broke rules but weren't marked down for it, which caused more controversy. At the time, the maximum amount of time that the partners could skate separately was 5 seconds. Grishuk and Platov broke this rule three times, and one of the separations was officially timed at thirteen seconds. There was also lots of people who said that T&D had the footwork whereas G&P had too much upper body movement and arm flailing.

As for the performances themselves, they all skated cleanly. Usova and Zhulin looked a little uncomfortable on a few of their lifts (particularly Zhulin) but skated cleanly. Grishuk and Platov skated cleanly, although some people thought they did it a bit better at Europeans. T&D were on fire! Most say they were the cleanest and most polished, despite the changes to the routine. They got a standing ovation for their performance.

IMO, I prefer their Olympic version to the previous version, although there are people who feel the opposite. :) You should try to get a tape of the competition so you can decide for yourself where you think the medals should have gone, whether the judges got it right or not.

Edited to add - the other free dances that year were really good too. :) My fave among the others was Rahkamo and Kokko, "La Strada". They came 4th. It's a beautiful programme, although they had a fall in the middle in the Olympics. Moniotte and Lavanchy's programme was really good too, and Krylova and Federov's.

[catija]

thanks for checking the tape icenut!! : ) judging by the marks..we can still see a lot of nationality favourtism...

is anyone interested in trading tapes for 94 olympics dance and pairs competition? :) i have certain programs from worlds 95-02 but i've gota check back since i was more interested in pairs, ice dance, and ladies

other stuff i have
-grand prix 2001 (kitchener)
-2002 canadians exhibition
-celebration of life (ekaterina gordeeva)
-my sergei, a love story
-94 olympics ladies and men free
-98 olympics

hmm does this post even belong here? just ignore it then :)

[La Rhumba]

The fact that G&P won Worlds a few weeks later [after T&D and U&Z withdrew] despite a heavy major FALL by Platov, with Moniotte/Lavanchy skating a clean, technically superior, and artistically more sophisticated FD in 2nd place proves that season the judges had pencilled in the results come what may. The European result was a fluke which the judges did not anticipate - positions flip-flopped so much it was unbelievable, and nobody knew who had won for ages afterwards. G/P's Rock and Roll was *cheesy* stylistically, and not that technically difficult - check their footwork - but yes, they were fast across the ice.

T&D fulfilled to the letter the ISU's edict that season to create more Ballroom type FDs and less theatrical *dying on the ice* type routines. Beause they were returning from the pro ranks they did not want to upset the judges by being too flashy, so concentrated on footwork - as laid down by the rules. People said it was "staid" and "old-fashioned", and they were *informed* that they would not win Olympics, but be placed third behind U/Z and G/P. In a short space of time they created a new FD with some old moves, but alot more *Pizzaz*, changed Chris's costume, and skated their hearts out at Lillehammer. Theirs was the most polished performance of the top three. G/P were nervous and scratchy, and U/Z gave a lovely performance that some thought the best, but it was not a Gold medal winning Olympic FD. Although deeply disappointed and disillusioned, the experience gave T&D an extra boost and longevity to their career, with two further international tours of their shows, culminating in the fabulous Ice Adventures, and their final performance together on the ice in Canada.

A couple of weeks before the European Championships, I watched a German TV discussion about the upcoming events with the return of the professionals, including Kati Witt and T&D. A German Skating Official predicted then that in the Olympics T&D would finish third.

[Aussie Willy]

The other thing to mention here to is that T&D heard between the compulsories and OD that the event was rigged and the plan was to have them placed 4th. This basically came to T&D from a couple of sources - one was Jayne's husband.

I think the ISU rubbed their hands with glee when T&D reinstated because they were worried about a lack of interest in the skating. But they also decided they did not want them to win either.

As for what happened at worlds after the Olympics, I definately think M&L deserved to win over G&P's FD with a very obvious mistake.

[icenut84]

Originally posted by Aussie Willy
I think the ISU rubbed their hands with glee when T&D reinstated because they were worried about a lack of interest in the skating. But they also decided they did not want them to win either.

A lot of people have said that's the whole reason for letting the pros reinstate, to get the television ratings. Among the pros who came back were some of the most famous skaters ever, Torvill & Dean, Gordeeva & Grinkov, Mishkutenok & Dmitriev, Viktor Petrenko, Katerina Witt, Brian Boitano. No wonder the 94 Olympics got so much attention! Especially when you add the whack.

[Ritti]

There is (hopefully) an article coming out soon at a major figure skating webzine with Susanna Rahkamo's point of view on Torvill/Dean in 1994, among other things. I think many of you will find it quite interesting. I will try to rememer to provide a link when it's published.

[icenut84]

Ritti - I'd definitely be interested. Do you know when it's going to be out? Is it a recent interview or something? I loved their FD that year.

[Aussie Willy]

Yes Ritti - I am interested too. Please let us know the linke.

[La Rhumba]

Yes, me too Ritti!:) I'd be interested to read the article - though I'm not expecting any complimentary words from Susanna for T&D, as Martin Scotnicky went on record at the time, saying that his couple - R/K- had been overlooked by the judges at Lillehammer, and obviously they missed out on an Olympic medal due to T&D's return. BTW, I also liked R/K's Rhumba OD that season too. :)

[Doug]

As a casual dance observer, I thought the top 5 order should have been:

Usova/Zhulin
Torvill/Dean
Monoitte/Lavanchy
Grischuk/Platov
Rahkomo/Kokko

I felt G&P had superior speed and footwork, but I just couldn't get over my dislike of their style and polish. The dance seemed frantic. Usova and Zhulin typify the very essence of what I love about dance. Fluidity, connection, speed... intense. T&D and M&L I thought had more similar balroom style dances that both had tremendous flair, class, grace, speed and attention to detial. I suppose I thought T&D's was more technically difficult to M&L, but I still say M&L got hosed most of their career.

Yup, I guess I really never did get the whole G&P as gods of ice dance thing.

My $0.02,
Doug

[Aussie Willy]

Doug - I agree with you. I thought Gritschuk had the ugliest line - her legs were too skinny and her feet too big. And I never thought they had good lifts - they all seemed rather scrappy. Having said that though, I did enjoy a couple of their programs. I particularly liked their Peter Gabriel number (the Arabia one) from 97.

[icenut84]

Originally posted by La Rhumba
Yes, me too Ritti!:) I'd be interested to read the article - though I'm not expecting any complimentary words from Susanna for T&D, as Martin Scotnicky went on record at the time, saying that his couple - R/K- had been overlooked by the judges at Lillehammer, and obviously they missed out on an Olympic medal due to T&D's return. BTW, I also liked R/K's Rhumba OD that season too. :)

Really? He said that? I loved Rahkamo & Kokko's free dance but I think they were actually given something of a gift in the Olympics to remain above Moniotte & Lavanchy with the fall R&K had in the middle of the programme.

[Twizzler]

I thought that R & K began ice dancing after seeing T & D perform at Europeans in Finland. I would think this meant they admired them. On the other hand, a lot of skaters were annoyed by the pros returning and taking spots away from them. Brasseur & Eisler (at least Eisler) and the German ladies skater who's name escapes me at the moment.

[Aussie Willy]

Twizzler - are you referring to Marina Keilmann? I know because Witt did not go to Worlds that Marina did and IIRC performed very well. I can only assume that Marina would have been annoyed because she is the most likely one who missed out on going to the Olympics.

I am surprised too with that comment about R&K being peeved about T&D because wouldn't they have trained with them at Obersdorf at the time?

[Ritti]

I don't think Rahkamo/Kokko trained with T/D but the Duchesnays in Oberstdorf. (Skotnicky coached the Duchesnays, and Chris Dean was their choreographer and Isabel's husband...)
In Rahkamo/Kokko's autobiography book, they didn't say it was because of T/D that they started dancing, but they did watch T/D from videotape a lot trying to learn from them.
At 94 Europeans, Moniotte/Lavanchy fell *twice* in their FD and it took forever for them to pick up the rhythm again, yet they were placed ahead of R/K in the FD. At Olympics, Susanna fell, but R/K were placed ahead of M/L anyway. Ice dance was almost as unpredictable then as it has been this season!
The article I mentioned should be published at Golden Skate (www.goldenskate.com) this week I think.

[La Rhumba]

Thanks for the info Ritti, I shall look out for it [though I ceased my subscription to Paula's newsletter, as I was inundated with Spam!]:evil:

It's interesting how people change their views as they develop. I have no doubt that R/K admired T&D greatly in their early days, but when they came to Worlds in Birmingham in 95, Susanna was interviewed on TV and said that as she and Petri progressed and climbed the rankings, they had wanted to develop their own style - they "did not want to skate like T&D, or the Russians, or the Duchesnays, but skate like Rakhamo/Kokko!" :)

[tdnuva]

It's interesting how people change their views as they develop. I have no doubt that R/K admired T&D greatly in their early days, but when they came to Worlds in Birmingham in 95, Susanna was interviewed on TV and said that as she and Petri progressed and climbed the rankings, they had wanted to develop their own style - they "did not want to skate like T&D, or the Russians, or the Duchesnays, but skate like Rakhamo/Kokko!"

Which I tend to say is not a real contradiction. You still can say that someone (in this case we're discussing T&D) did great things for the sport and made up wonderful routines, but I would like to go my own way. I don't think admiration could only result in copying the style.

And btw - lately I saw a short sequence about a kind of "tea party" T&D gave when the Challenge of Champions was in London several years ago. All four dance teams were sitting together in a hotel and seemed to have a good time for each other (Rahkamo&Kokko, Usova&Zhulin, T&D and the fourth one escapes me at the moment). I'd say that they all respect each other and can well divide between the struggle (and politics) of competition and personal feelings and respect for each other.

[loveskating]

I loved Grishuk & Platov. I thought they, and Oksana in particular, had the deepest, most secure edges I'd ever seen...and with incredible speed. They really flew over the ice but with great carriage and crisp, on center turns.

I also thought they were innovative and really DANCED. As compared to anyone but Krylova & Ovsiannikov, the LEAN on all their patterns was just, well, differentiating. They were whole body movers and on those edges like crazy, IMHO, and it was beautiful to see.

Their tech difficulty is still unsurpassed, IMHO, and I will never in my life forget the beastie squat spreadeagle Oksana did 3 times between Platov's legs in Requiem in 98...that is HARD...the timing alone is enough to give you a headache. ALso, I don't think there are any twizzles to equal Oksana's (except for Jamie Silverstein. and she is not yet "around" again) and their unison was amazing.

However, I think that the reason they won in 94 was because they represented the new rules better than anyone else. Their FD was pure dance, and extremely exciting and mesmerizing to see live. It was "different" and in a way that the judges wanted at the time. They themselves were totally surprised in 94 that they won.

[Aussie Willy]

Loveskating - that beastie squat spreadeagle (I love your name for it) was also done by Punsalan & Swallow in their racing car number back in 91.

[La Rhumba]

Is it really so hard to do?:?: I wouldn't call it mesmerizing - just repetitive.

Loveskating - I disagree with all your points - but I absolutely adore your skating cards, and have sent several to my friends. Thanks! :D

[Aussie Willy]

La Rhumba - a friend of mine who is an ice dancer said the beastie squat spreadeagle isn't really that hard to do. I suppose it looks impressive done at speed.

[La Rhumba]

I thought as much Aussie, as I've seen some technically limited and Junior couples do it. In fact it was a much more common move in the past, and used to be called the *teapot* before it became the Betsy squat [an ugly description for an ungainly move IMO], but I much prefer the new and improved beastie squat!! LOL!

Once again, Loveskating, I am the biggest fan of your gorgeous cards - luv the music, love the designs - you are v.v. talented. Congratulations!! Just sent another one off! Cheers! :D