How important is skaters' speed to you?

[gkilloug]

I mainly focus on men's singles (although I enjoy all forms) and there is every so often mention about a skater being slow or still too slow. It seems that women's single skaters are allowed to be slow, soft, flowing, and pretty as well as fast, but that men have to be fast skaters. Now, it will help to mention that Alexander "Sasha" Abt is my favorite of favorites, but he is not the only one who has this mentioned of him. Now, I am not talking about skaters slowing down at the end or being behind their music, I am talking about being slow or fast on purpose. I truly enjoy the speed at which Abt skates because there is a musical flow to him as well as great hang time not only on his jumps but on all his elements. Although, he is a faster spinner than most skaters, people critical of his speed seem to overlook that aspect. I am analytical and with help of my VCR I actually compared the speed of spins among many skaters just to make sure I was not being biased. Speed is impressive, but so is hang time as well. Plus, especially if you watch Abt's 2002 European Champ performance, he has the bendability of Gumby. Now criticism of Abt having an endurance problem is very fair, but I think there is an expection for men to be fast and macho instead of beautiful as a skater. I also enjoyed watching Yagudin and he used speed to his advantage. However, I think speed is often overated and hang time is underated. I like both Abt and Yagudin because they both skated at the speed that was appropriate for them. Many other skaters seem to rush their programs, sacrificing hang time for speed. I actually wonder if the rushed skaters are trying to hide an element or if they could even hold onto the position if they needed too. My point is that all skaters should be encouraged to skate at the speed that best highlights their strengths and speed is only one skill among many other skills.

[adrianchew]

I absolute love Abt's ability to move across the ice quickly yet effortlessly. His edges are among the best in the world and when I got to see him skate up close, my eyes nearly popped out of the sockets! 8O

I couldn't even tell you what jumps he did in that program because I became engrossed just watching him move across the ice so effortlessly. I would sum up speed in skating not to be just pure point A to point B, but the effortless flowing quality that comes with great edges. His spins are just as impressive... and even if he's not as solid as Yagudin or Plushenko with jumps, I would definitely want to watch Abt skate.

With ladies, they tend to have less speed and power in their skating due to their smaller stature and built, but the same kind of impressive flow and movement quality can be achieved. Sasha's Charlotte spiral, spreadeagle, ina bauer has the same kind of flow quality as Abt's skating... now if only one Sasha (Abt) can just share a few more tips to the other Sasha (Cohen) so she can get more speed even! ;)

Another little detail that bothers me - scratchy edges. Abt and Cohen both have silent edging... it just makes it all that much more impressive!

Speed while doing difficult dance footwork is equally impressive to watch. With footwork, I find that not only the traditional style footwork on the edge, but also step style footwork at speed to be equally impressive. I would like to see a dance team demonstrate mastery in both styles.

[A.H.Black]

Whether or not speed is important to fans, it is important to judges. Also, the one thing I cannot see very well on TV is speed. I have to see the skaters in person to be able to judge that element.

I don't mean to be curt. I'm just too tired to think of anything more to say.

[RoaringSkates]

For me, speed is very important. You can be flowing, graceful and fast, or flowing, graceful and slow. The faster speed really adds to the grace and elegance, making for a more "mature" looking program, while the slower speed often looks sluggish or "younger". It's harder to do the moves at speed, too, so it really matters.

A good example for me is Michelle Kwan's spiral. That woman is flying when she's doing that move, but it looks so calm, so elegant.

I agree that it's easier to judge speed in person than on tv. Sometimes my opinion of a skater has changed once I've seen them in person.

[Leanne]

Speed is important to judges because the ability to generate speed, especially without progressives defines good basic skating ability. Speed makes more of an impact live, so fans who tend to only watch on TV often don't understand why it is important.

Abt has the best example of effortless speed and edging in eligible skating today. I love to watch this man skate in practice. The first time I saw him live at 1997 Skate America, his warm-ups in practice blew me away. I have never seen a skater generate that much speed without crossovers. He does three turn, rocker and mohawk exercises and laps the other guys.

His competitive programs often don't capture this well so I hope that Zhulin can improve on this. I would not argue that among singles skaters and possibly among ice dancers as well that he has the best raw edging, knees, power and body lean of any eligible skater today. Even though I say his competitive programs do not capture this well, I dare anyone to count the crossovers in his programs. I have never seen a program where Abt has donea string of back crossovers around the end of the rink, and I have never seen another skater who hasn't except for Yagudin. In fact, he rarely does a full back crossover anywhere, and does mostly forward crossovers and few of those at that!

I assume by "hang time" you mean how long a skater holds a move. This has no relation to speed. Don't try to combine or confuse them. There is something that is evaluated called quickness. Plushenko is the best eligible male for this. Striking a balance between quick and extended moves is difficult and also rewarded in judging. Abt needs to show more quickness. It's a weakness of his. The best skater for that among eligibles is Andrejs Vlaschenko.

[Tikobuzz]

Speed generated by strong stroking is what I enjoy most when watching the elite skaters. Fortunately, more attention is being paid to this quality by commentators such as Dick Button. He does mention Abt's incredible edging and the crispness of his skating. Dorothy Hamill is another skater whose edging, speed and stroking made her skating exquisite. Glad to see this topic brought up. Many Canadian and American skaters have foregone these attributes to hone other skills such as jumping. Many fans don't even recognize these qualities and fail to understand that many judges are giving kudos to these skills. Thanks for pointing this out!

[AxelAnnie22]

You have asked a bit of a trick question. For most of us who only get to see the skating on TV, it is impossible to judge the impact of speed....you simply can't judge speed from TV. Hence, one really can't answer the question.

However, the elements that go into great speed - stroking, edging, quite edges, power - are visible, and very important.

I saw IRINA in COI this year. She had not been to the West Coast before. I understood (from the commentators) that she was fast. But I had no idea! She is so fast, so powerful, it is not true!

So, my answer, is that speed, in and of itself is almost invisible. It is what creates the speed that makes the difference in the quality of the skating. And, yes, it is very important.

[gkilloug]

Thank you to everyone who replied to my post, I really appreciate the feedback, it has been very helpful. Unfortunately, I have to watch my skating through the television right now rather than live (I live in the midwest and I am basically too broke to travel right now because of student loans and expensive teeth problem bills, so I have to rely more on the television). Actually knowing that speed can not be judged accurately through television actually makes me feel better, I felt like I was missing too much. When I do get to see live skating, I am always so awestruck that my analytical abilities go "off-line". I have been wanting to improve my ability to analysis skating beyond the basics of recognizing jumps, spins, and basic elements, but I realize now that I need to see alot more live skating in order to analyze the way I want to be able to. I have been relying more on commenters on message boards and web sites to fill in gaps of knowledge, but I just was not understanding what commenters meant when they would say that a skater or skaters were slow or that they lacked speed. I think the problem is that speed is a term that can be used loosely to mean different things from different commenters. That is what is so confusing. I appreciate making a distinction between quickness and speed, I used the term speed because that is the term being used in comments I was trying to figure out. The way quickness was described makes alot more sense to me critically, and I understood the point. However, it was interesting to me that Plushenko was used as the example, because I really do not care for his style of skating as a viewer. I can tell that he is a really great skater and if I were a judge, I would give him great marks. However, from a viewer's standpoint he seems too spasmodic for my enjoyment. For viewing pleasure, I think I value smoothness more highly than quickness. However, I do agree that Abt and other skaters could still learn from Plushenko. This also helps me better understand why my preferences for certain skaters often does not correspond with the actual amount of talent that I think a skater has.

[Ellyn]

gkilloug, you're in Indianapolis? I know there is at least one fairly successful skating club there, and probably others in reasonable driving distance. See if you can stop by during a freestyle session sometime just to watch skaters practicing. Even if you don't get to see any elite skaters, just seeing the difference between, say, the preliminary and the intermediate kids would give you a good idea of differences in speed and skating quality. The same concepts would apply at higher levels, just the standards for both good and not-so-good would both be higher.

[adrianchew]

gkilloug - have you ever had the chance to see Abt skate in person? Preferably in a small rink where you are closer to the ice or a really good seat like 1st 10 rows at a bigger ice show? If you haven't, when you get a chance, do it - you will be surprised how much better he is compared to your TV impressions.

The other way to improve your abilities is to go to club level competitions - watching novice/junior level skaters can be very educational. I have problems below novice trying to tell the good ones from the average ones, but watching all that extra skating has helped tons.

[loveskating]

Hi gkilloug:

Well, interesting what you said about Plushenko, because while he is a very great skater, I adore him and respect him, I do find his stroking to be not of the very top quality, like Abt's or Kulik's...he takes a lot of short strokes, has obviously paid more attention to other things. OTOH. he can accellerate on the blade like crazy...the speed he gets from pure accelleration into his jumps is amazing...so go figure.

Abt is my fave in the current field of amateurs as well...he is always on an edge, and flows like crazy, and his programs are so full of great skating detail, and very meaningful. He is a passionate skater. But he just doesn't land all the jumps all the time, is all.

Or take Yags...I do think Abt might have beaten Yags last season once, but the judges didn't agree with me, LOL. Otherwise, Yags usually outskates anyone else OVERALL...and has great edges and strokes too.

The rules comprehend a whole package, so to speak...not just one aspect of the program.

[RoseAugust]

Speed (among other skills) is very important to me, unfortunately the only live skating I ever see is COI/SOI and speed just doesn't come across very well on the television. I think the fastest woman skater I've ever seen live is easily Oksana Baiul. This year I was surprised when I saw Irina in COI and she was slower than Michelle, Fumie AND Sasha. Some skaters need the speed for their skating to be exciting for me while others don't. For example, Oksana has a unique dance quality to her skating while Irina, on the other hand, really needs the unique powerful speed she is reported to have. How a skater achieves speed is important to me as well. I never warmed up to Scot Hamilton because of his fast short stroking to achieve speed. It's like watching a small dog and a large dog run together - I prefer the larger dog's gait. I have the same preference in skating.

[gkilloug]

Thanks for the info. Yes, I do currently live in Indianapolis. Actually, I have been thinking about checking out the club skaters to get the chance to see more live skating. It is a great suggestion. I did not put in that in the last post because I was trying to avoid writing a book. I have been helping a friend who has only casually watched skating on television to learn the terminology of skating and she has helped to inspire me to take my analysis to a "higher level" and has reminded me how much I love watch figure skating in general.

[loveskating]

Hi Roseaugust:

You must have seen Irina on a very, very off night. She is faster than anyone except perhaps Katia G. and Oksana...and on very deep, secure edges. Its the most important characteristic of her skating, IMHO.

[RoseAugust]

Loveskating,

It must have been an off night for Irina. All skaters have them. Sasha was off that night in the jump department, but she was fast and that surprised me because I kept reading that she was slower than Irina, Michelle and Sarah. On the night I saw Irina, she was fast during her introduction and the first half minute (at the most) of her program; after that, she slowed down and was quite unremarkable because of it. Irina's presentation definately needs speed. However, her famous smile was certainly present and she seemed to be enjoying herself!

[Lulia]

To me, speed it very important. Something that annoys me very much is these Pairs who go out of their way to pick up-beat, hip music only to skate so slow to it they seem to be on some medication! :roll:

It may be the reason why pairs is my least favorite discipline most of the time: they're so slow, and the guys are so unexpressive or klutzy most of the time!