how could michael weiss leave Audrey!!?? [Archive]

Mayra

10-29-2002, 10:14 PM

How could he leave Audrey? Probably the same way Goebel left Heiss-Jenkins, Kwan-Carroll, Kirk the Scotvolds, Cohen-Nicks etc..

Their athlete/coach relationship might not have been working out for him anymore. It happens. Because of their close relationship, I would expect he showed some common courtesy and told Audrey face to face about the decision taken. Other than that, these things happen. He has to do whats best for him.

Alexeiskate

10-30-2002, 06:31 AM

Even though this decision might be painful, I'm sure Audrey understands that Mike need to do something in order to get his skating back on track if he wants to remain competitive. I think the 'Inside Edge' book wrote that at one point early in their career Audrey had suggested that Mike look for another coach, because she felt that she couldn't take him any further but the Weiss decided to remain with Audrey. So I can see Audrey be totally understanding of this recent decision by Mike and I wouldn't even be suprised if Audrey had a saying in the coaching changes. But I'm sure that Mike and Audrey will always be close together.

I also would like to see Mike work with another choreographer. I think his competitive routines for the past few years tend to be in the same mold that hasn't really helped him.

Mistyeyed

10-30-2002, 06:52 AM

I think this was a good thing to do. I am sure it was painful for both skater and coach but, it was high past time for MW to move on and try things with someone else. He has been in a rut and he needs to try new things. A new coach might offer a different perspective and really be able to help Weiss move up and out abit. I don't think he should feel bad
about the change and I am sure his coach also understands. Afterall, this is what skaters do all the time. All of them do this, so why should Weiss be any different. They all want to improve and grow and get better and variety offers this. Best of luck to Weiss. I am sure Audrey will get another skater right away and perhaps this skater will do even better than Weiss under her tutor. You just never know. Its all a big gamble.

Mazurka Girl

10-30-2002, 07:59 AM

Here's another article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37934-2002Oct29.html

Don Laws sure wouldn't be my first choice. :roll:
Good luck to Mike though & I hope it works out for him.

Badams

10-30-2002, 09:10 AM

i hope that this move is good for michael. good for him for taking the steps he feels are necessary to help his skating!

peachstatesk8er

10-30-2002, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by Mazurka Girl
Here's another article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37934-2002Oct29.html

Don Laws sure wouldn't be my first choice. :roll:
Good luck to Mike though & I hope it works out for him.

?? Worked with him when he was here in Atl. and he was quite good. Good luck to Mike; I hope he finds what he's looking for.

AxelAnnie22

10-30-2002, 09:24 AM

Mike is certainly free to do whatever he wishes. However, I think he is trying to fix the stove while the refrigerator is broken, if you know what I mean.

When a skater reaches a certain level (age too) there is not much that is going to be added to their technical content. Think Todd. And, that is what MW would need to get back in the hunt. He is not going to become competitive with Goebel or Plushenko at this point. And, if Weiss gets his quad consistent, I can't imagine a clean Weiss placing in front of a clean Savoie.

Mike hasn't skated consistently well in a few years. It looks to me like he has reached his pinacle, and is on the painful "other side of the heap" that I hate watching atheletes try to navigate.

Mazurka Girl

10-30-2002, 10:09 AM

And, if Weiss gets his quad consistent, I can't imagine a clean Weiss placing in front of a clean Savoie.

I don't agree about that. Actually Mike Weiss has been skating extremely well this season up to SA. His skating shows improvement & his jumps (including triple axel) have been much better & clean compared to the past couple years. I was kind of surprised by how he skated at SA.

If Mike is is still improving, no reason he shouldn't stay in the game if he wants to do so. I wish him the best.

Oracle

10-30-2002, 10:26 AM

I think the move will be good for Michael. Don Laws will be able to help him correct his jump entrances & that in turn will help him become more consistent. As to Todd, I can only conclude that AA has not watched Todd since he entered the Sr. ranks as a teenager. One of the things I've most admired in Todd's skating is the improvements he has made, yearly, be it stroking, positions, Russian splits, spins, etc.

AxelAnnie22

10-30-2002, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Oracle
I think the move will be good for Michael. Don Laws will be able to help him correct his jump entrances & that in turn will help him become more consistent. As to Todd, I can only conclude that AA has not watched Todd since he entered the Sr. ranks as a teenager. One of the things I've most admired in Todd's skating is the improvements he has made, yearly, be it stroking, positions, Russian splits, spins, etc. I was only addressing the last four years. I love Todd. My assertion in the first place, was (and is) that when after a certain point, a skater is not going to add very much more technical difficulty. I am happy to be wrong, but I haven't seen any of the older guys adding quads, combos, etc. And, I think, in this multi-quad era, that is what will be needed to be competitive.

lynlei

10-30-2002, 11:38 AM

I agree with AxelAnnie.

I also think Todd has beautiful technic in almost every elements. However, how many quad has he landed in competition last 4 years?

When I see a skater who could land a quad but has less than mediocre technic in other elements gets a decent standing just because he has quad, I wonder what kind of message it is sending to young skaters.
Sad...

speedy

10-30-2002, 11:58 AM

Why would a clean Weiss with a quad not finish ahead of Savoie? Matt's certainly not known for landing quads himself...great presentation yeah, but if Weiss starts hitting a quad consistently, and he does seem to be getting closer, he's got good enough presentation himself to win another U.S. title. He was able to hold off Goebel in 2000 when Tim landed THREE quads...granted Tim has come a long way since then, but I still think Weiss has the advantage overall when he can hit his jumps. This had to be a very hard decision for Mike, but I think he must know it's now or never as far as hitting the top again...and with injuries to Yagudin and Goebel, he's certainly in the hunt this year by all means.

adrianchew

10-30-2002, 01:18 PM

From USFSA...

http://www.usfsa.org/news/2002-03/weiss-lawscoach.htm

NiceIce

10-30-2002, 02:28 PM

A good change for Michael and hopefully he will get a better choreographer too. I think his loyalty to Audrey for this long was admirable, but detrimental to his skating.
Another one who needs to let go of the coach from the past is Derrick Delmore...who has the same kind of loyalty to Shirley Hughes but needs a coach who will train him harder and better.

olivia

10-30-2002, 02:39 PM

If Weiss has the desire to better his skating, I'm pleased to watch and see the result of his efforts. I really have no comment about the coaching change; it's become rather trendy lately, so nothing really phases me in that regard.

Although Weiss hasn't been very consistent the past few seasons, he really seems motivated to skate well in his hometown (D.C.) at Worlds ... and he just might. Right now, all of the U.S.' top men are question marks: Goebel is injured and hasn't been able to train or compete as usual; Savoie is coming off a season with a very serious injury (of the groin) and has only just had some success landing the quad, but admits the jump is still not competition-ready; and Eldredge seems in good shape health-wise, but he hasn't committed to competing at Nationals and hasn't had much success landing quads, as we all know. So, given all that and Weiss' good showing at Campbells and decent showing at SA, why not give it a shot? 2003 Worlds could be his defining moment as an eligible figure skater, like Rudi Galindo's National Championship in San Jose (1996) before his hometown crowd. You never know.

O-

duane

10-30-2002, 03:13 PM

i think this is an excellent decision. michael's presentation is among the best, and what has been holding him back for so many years is his lack of consistency in the jumps. audrey seems like a very nice woman, but perhaps michael needs a coach who is more tough, and one who will really be on his case to improve his consistency (of course, this is only my impression of audrey).

i also agree that mike should also think about getting a new choreographer--one who creates programs that more accentuate Mike's presentation.

manleywoman

10-30-2002, 04:31 PM

From the Wash Post article:

...Don Laws...as a co-chair on the International Skating Union's coaches committee,...

I wonder if this had something to do with it. Don could talk Mike up with the ISU and give him more favor internationally.

But also, 18 years with one coach is a long time, and Mike, like anybody, can use a fresh perspective. I agree that he really should get a new choreographer too! THe Gardens Ice House has some good choreographers in house.

Another one who needs to let go of the coach from the past is Derrick Delmore...who has the same kind of loyalty to Shirley Hughes but needs a coach who will train him harder and better.

NiceIce, I couldn't agree more. Shirley Hughes isn't doing much for Derrick anymore.

AxelAnnie22

10-30-2002, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by duane

i also agree that mike should also think about getting a new choreographer--one who creates programs that more accentuate Mike's presentation. Could be dicey. Isn't his wife his choreographer LOL!

alfongsucks

10-30-2002, 06:03 PM

this is all quite interesting....... I think that Mike is way past his prime, but maybe this is the one thing that can help him achieve more in his skating. I do think that he is very overrated, and he should not be the national champion, he really should be pushed aside by other talented skaters. But who knows, this might be the one thing that he needs to get near the top

karina1974

10-30-2002, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by AxelAnnie22
Could be dicey. Isn't his wife his choreographer LOL!

What difference does that make? As far as his skating goes, their partnership should be considered to be strictly business, with the whole marriage thing left off the ice. If she truly has his best interests as a skater at heart, she would be happy for him if he ever does make that change, and not take it personally. I would think she's OK with the thought of him changing to another choreographer if he felt he had outgrown her choreography or just needed a change. If she wasn't than she would be smart not to mix a business relationship with a personal relationship.

duane

10-30-2002, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by karina1974
As far as his skating goes, their partnership should be considered to be strictly business, with the whole marriage thing left off the ice. If she truly has his best interests as a skater at heart, she would be happy for him if he ever does make that change, and not take it personally.

this is WAY more easier said than done.

we all have egos, and no one wants to hear that they are being let go "for the good of"...whatever!

many coaches/choreographers likely dont see themselves as the reason for a skater's slump, or see themselves as holding a skater back. i dont think frank and lori said to michelle, "i think your chances of winning olympic gold would be better if you fire us", or john nicks said to sasha "ok, now is the time for you to fire me and find another coach".

i think it's impossible not to take being fired personally, and think there will always be some hard feelings on the part of the fired party. this could lead to friction, or downright disdain (need i mention the highly public split of mishin and yagudin?). this is probably more so for a married couple, and could be an extremely dicey situation.

RobinA

10-30-2002, 07:09 PM

WHAT other talented skaters for Men's National champion in the past couple years???? Weiss never did beat Todd, which I think is as it should be. Goebel? Depends on what you like to see in skating. But there's been no one else in the US who should have beat Weiss. Even now. Mike has a much more complete package, incomplete as it may be, than anybody else. Savoi may be ready this year, but that remains to be seen.

Men's skating in the US isn't lighting the world on fire these last few years.

Badams

10-30-2002, 09:36 PM

i agree 100% Robin!!!

Rachel

10-30-2002, 10:52 PM

As far as his skating goes, their partnership should be considered to be strictly business, with the whole marriage thing left off the ice. If she truly has his best interests as a skater at heart, she would be happy for him if he ever does make that change, and not take it personally. I would think she's OK with the thought of him changing to another choreographer if he felt he had outgrown her choreography or just needed a change. If she wasn't than she would be smart not to mix a business relationship with a personal relationship.

Um, karina. are you married?

langeliniee

10-31-2002, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by Rachel
As far as his skating goes, their partnership should be considered to be strictly business, with the whole marriage thing left off the ice. If she truly has his best interests as a skater at heart, she would be happy for him if he ever does make that change, and not take it personally. I would think she's OK with the thought of him changing to another choreographer if he felt he had outgrown her choreography or just needed a change. If she wasn't than she would be smart not to mix a business relationship with a personal relationship.

Um, karina. are you married?

I am and I totally agree with Karina!

AxelAnnie22

10-31-2002, 05:00 AM

Originally posted by karina1974
What difference does that make? As far as his skating goes, their partnership should be considered to be strictly business, with the whole marriage thing left off the ice. If she truly has his best interests as a skater at heart, she would be happy for him if he ever does make that change, and not take it personally. I would think she's OK with the thought of him changing to another choreographer if he felt he had outgrown her choreography or just needed a change. If she wasn't than she would be smart not to mix a business relationship with a personal relationship. And, I would betcha you are NOT married!

Mazurka Girl

10-31-2002, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by alfongsucks
I do think that he is very overrated, and he should not be the national champion, he really should be pushed aside by other talented skaters.
The other talented skaters have had a chance to push him aside & have not yet risen to the occasion. It's not like the opportunity doesn't exist for them the same as it does for Mike. In the meantime, he still fits in with the mix just fine.

karina1974

10-31-2002, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by duane
this is WAY more easier said than done.

i think it's impossible not to take being fired personally, and think there will always be some hard feelings on the part of the fired party. this could lead to friction, or downright disdain (need i mention the highly public split of mishin and yagudin?). this is probably more so for a married couple, and could be an extremely dicey situation.

Which is precisely my point. I haven't followed Michael's early career all that closely, so someone else can answer this for me: was she his choreographer before they were married, or just after? Actually, it really doesn't matter either way; the issues are still the same. Hopefully, they had a good long discussion over the feasibility of having both a professional relationship on the ice and a marriage off the ice, and their ability to keep the two separate, just in case the issue of a choreographer change ever does come up. Plenty of established skaters make coaching/choreo changes over their career, it's a business decision, much like any other personnal change, and the effect it has on any off-ice relationship should not be a factor in making these kinds of decisions.

blue111moon

10-31-2002, 01:32 PM

Lisa was Mike's choreographer before they married. IIRC, that's how they met.

karina1974

10-31-2002, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by AxelAnnie22
And, I would betcha you are NOT married!

As if a piece of paper will make my nearly 6-year relationship any deeper and more commited than it already is now.

And I can relate to this situation because my bf is involved in a similarly high-profile career: the music business. Ironically, I was working for the band that hired him 5 years ago before they even heard of him, so I DID have to deal with the professional vs. personal thing while nursing a 5-month-old relationship at the same time. I still deal with that, even though I no longer work for the band and the relationship is rock-solid, b/c the rules of public conduct, if you will, were all set on his terms, b/c he has to uphold both his image and that of the band as a whole. I learned a long time ago to accept the fact that I will always be in second place behind his career and that, if I ever develop a problem with that, I am free to leave at any time; that, as far as the band's gigs are concerned, I am a fan and nothing more than that and he will deal with the groupies if they get out of line. And just b/c I have an inside track to one of the band's decision-makers, that doesn't give my word or opinion any more weight than the guy off the street as to which way the band (and he) should go, career-wise. Those are my bf's groundrules, and I either accept them or find someone else. And I accept them b/c a) I have been a supporter of this band for nearly 10 years and, b) I would rather have this man in my life than out of it.

How does this relate to this thread? Simple: it's Michael's skating career, something he's been doing since he was very young (mostly likely LONG before he even met her) and, if he ever feels that he needs to make a choreo change, the fact that his wife will be out of the picture professionally should not enter into the equation. It doesn't change the fact that they are married, and their relationship should be solidified to the point where they could handle a change in the professional arena.

Besides, if she loves him, she'll support any decision he makes to further his career.

langeliniee

10-31-2002, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by karina1974
Which is precisely my point. I haven't followed Michael's early career all that closely, so someone else can answer this for me: was she his choreographer before they were married, or just after?

Before they were married, Lisa was an aerobic instructor at one of the Weiss's gyms. Mike was about 16 or 17 at the time and his mom thought his skating would benefit from working with her. They started working together & fell in love. Lisa was elevated to coreographing his exhibition numbers. With Brian Wright, his main choreographer very ill, she became the main one (with lots of help on the side from Matthew Gates).

Terri C

11-01-2002, 04:00 PM

A few years ago, Don Laws conducted a seminar at our rink in Chesapeake, VA as he was en route from Atlanta to Laurel!
I was very impressed with him, after all, he talked me into trying a camel spin , which I had never done before!

This coaching change was a very logical decision for Mike!

cafelife

11-02-2002, 10:03 PM

I can't believe no one has posted to defend Lisa's choreography! His Carmen program a couple years ago was outstanding. His Latin short at the Boston Nationals (was it a Tango thing?) was also memorable, and the William Tell would have been another strong program if he would have ever skated it properly. She knows what she is doing! Not to say someone else couldn't do well too, but let's not imply that she hasn't been successful at it.

CarolA0923

11-03-2002, 09:29 AM

Actually I think Lisa has helped Michael. As I recall before she started doing his programs I did not really like them. Lisa seems to have gotten him to do some classical type programs and his presentation improved after she started working with him (at least in my view!)

trixie

11-03-2002, 10:14 AM

Would be interesting to see how he would finesse a new choreographer. the press release would, of course say, the old one is "just like family".

grondahl

11-03-2002, 07:54 PM

I think Mike needs a new choreographer. IMHO his programs are starting to look stale and all the same.

He also needs to bag those new skates. While the skates might be mildly entertaining for a show program, IMHO they add little to his competitive programs.

Rachel

11-03-2002, 09:00 PM

I agree about the skates, but I'm another one who thinks Lisa is a good choreographer. The problem with Michael's programs is his skating, not the choreography. He hasn't delivered in a while. But as far as I am concerned, his Beethoven, William Tell and Malaguena programs were the best he's ever had, choreography-wise, and I've never heard anyone in skating say that she isn't doing the job.

I've been married 17 years and I have often worked with my husband in a professional capacity. I am not and never will be just another person on the street where he is concerned. Even though his work is his, I have a stake in it, too. If he ever decided to dump me professionally because he thought my work wasn't good enough for him any more, it would be impossible to not take personally. Maybe back when we were first dating, but not now.

Fortunately, he has never been in a position to hire OR fire me, and I have never been in that position with him, or else we might have had our problems. I don't think it's a good idea for married people to work together, even though I've done it, and I well understand why a lot of skating partnerships don't work out once romance is involved. The balance of power in any relationship is a delicate thing, and it doesn't take much to throw it off.

Mazurka Girl

11-04-2002, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by Terri C
I was very impressed with him, after all, he talked me into trying a camel spin , which I had never done before!

This coaching change was a very logical decision for Mike!
Great, I hope he can talk Mike into trying a camel spin. Let's see, who are the other world level competitors Don Laws has had in singles besides Scott, Dan Doran, & Aaron Nielsen? I don't think we can count Scott Smith since he is new to international competitions & didn't stay with Laws very long.

Terri C

11-04-2002, 06:28 PM

Hey Mazurka Girl!

Heard of Scott Hamilton?!Let's see, who are the other world class competitors Laws has coached?

bunghodog

11-05-2002, 07:47 AM

It seems like everytime you turn around someone is leaving there coach, im not suprised at all, Micheal never has been a yagudin or plush or even a todd, (skating wise) hopefully things will turn around for him and hopefully he wont use the backstreet boys anymore.

Mazurka Girl

11-05-2002, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by Terri C
Hey Mazurka Girl! Heard of Scott Hamilton?!
Hey Terri C! Yes, I believe that's why I wrote: "Let's see, who are the other world level competitors Don Laws has had in singles besides Scott, Dan Doran, & Aaron Nielsen?"

Scott Hamilton was with Don Laws 18 yrs ago, never had to do triple axel or quad & was previously trained by Carlo Fassi as was Dan Doran. That's why I asked who else he has had lately. I'm sure beginning skaters at his workshops are very impressed by the Scott Hamilton connection, but for competitive skaters measuring the overall results of many skaters over a long term period rather than looking at only one from 18 yrs ago might be more effective.

At least Mike doesn't have to learn any jumps so maybe he will get some fine tuning & analysis that is helpful to him & can make a difference in his performance.