Kyoko Ina Faces Sanctions [Archive]

AxelAnnie22

10-21-2002, 08:22 AM

Good grief! What is that all about? Does anyone know what happened?
What were the circumstances of the refusal? This is the second drug "issus" with Moskvina's pairs.

I have not a clue what the rules are, but I can't see a lot of options for refusing an "unannounced drug test".

Mazurka Girl

10-21-2002, 08:42 AM

I've never had to register to read the washingtonpost.com & give an e-mail or name before. Sometimes they have a pop-up screen that asks if you are male or female & your zip code. It's not really a registration.

RoaringSkates

10-21-2002, 09:01 AM

I read at FSU that Kyoko was approached late one night last year for a drug test. The official had expired credentials, and they'd brough a second person with them that had no credentials. Kyoko was not able to produce a specimen for 45 minutes, and asked if she could try again the next morning. The official refused.

I wasn't able to substantiate what I've just written. If I find back-up, I'll post.

adrianchew

10-21-2002, 09:32 AM

Hersh Article - Chicago Tribune (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/international/cs-0210210134oct21,0,5363640.story?coll=cs%2Dinternat ional%2Dprint)

More details...

According to Williams, the USADA tester was carrying expired credentials and was accompanied by an uncredentialed chaperone when the tester arrived at Ina's Greenwich, Conn., home at 10:30 p.m. June 18.

When Ina was unable to produce a urine sample by 11:15, the skater cited the late hour and asked the tester to come to the rink the next day. Told she would have to sign a refusal form, Ina asked for the tester for advice about potential penalties and was told to call a USADA hotline that was out of order, according to Williams.

Louis

10-21-2002, 10:01 AM

I think it's ridiculous that the MINIMUM suspension Ina is facing is still more than what Didier and MRLG received.

And I guess consulting a mobster to help you win Olympic gold doesn't carry any mandatory suspension since there hasn't been much on that front lately.... :roll:

CMc

10-21-2002, 10:07 AM

Sounds like such a mess--Either somebody's NOT doing their job, or it's foul play, either way it's too bad. I really like Kyoko. She did look kind of down when I saw her at the IFS screening last June. I hope this blows over soon.

Trillian

10-21-2002, 10:46 AM

If all this is true regarding the procedural irregularities, I find it impossible to believe she'll be facing any legal consequences for this. Clearly Kyoko was NOT the person who screwed up in this situation.

lynlei

10-21-2002, 10:48 AM

Do those testers come to skater's house?
Even they were supposedly come to individual's home, I would not let them take my sample at 10:30 PM!
Sounds very fishy.....

speedy

10-21-2002, 11:07 AM

You've got to be kidding. I would think a lot of skaters are IN BED at 10:30 at night, much less willing to open their door to 2 strange people!! I swear you couldn't make up some of the ridiculous stuff that's happened in skating this year. What idiot would go test a skater at that late hour and not even be CREDENTIALED?? I guess they expected her to make them a pot of coffee and hang out for a while until she could "produce." UN-BE-LIEV-A-BLE. :roll: If she gets any suspension at all this sport has become more of a joke than I imagined possible...sounds like she deserves an apology more than a suspension.

haribobo

10-21-2002, 11:20 AM

yeah, if this is all true, she does deserve a major apology. All I can say is, I hate stupid and unfair people. There are too many around these days!

sk8pics

10-21-2002, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by lynlei
Do those testers come to skater's house?
Even they were supposedly come to individual's home, I would not let them take my sample at 10:30 PM!
Sounds very fishy.....

I don't know the whole story here, but yes, ADA representatives do go to the skaters' homes sometimes. There was quite a lot of information on the USFSA website, the Olympic team section, last year regarding the policies and procedures for out-of-competition testing. There was a big push to test everyone last year who was considered a possible Olympian. One of the things the athletes are supposed to do is list their training locations and probable times they could be found at those locations. I know for a fact a couple of skaters were tested last summer (2001), one at home and the other at the rink. But it was the middle of the day, not late in the evening. So this whole story sounds a bit strange.

Pat

NiceIce

10-21-2002, 01:14 PM

I know the Olympic level athletes are very familiar with the procedures, but two strangers showing up at my door at 10:30PM would not have received a specimen from me either!
I find it shocking that she was treated this way and that she faces such absurd consequences.

AxelAnnie22

10-21-2002, 01:34 PM

Man, what a mess. Is anyone else embarrassed to be a figure skating fan?

How silly is this? Judges who fix the olympic outcome, get a three year ban. Judges who turn in the bad guys get voted off key committees, and receive no judging assignments. Atheletes who don't produce a urine sample at 10:30 PM to two total strangers without proper credentials face a 4 year ban. Did we go down the rabbit hole with Alice?

lynlei

10-21-2002, 01:52 PM

sk8pics,
Thank you for the information :)
After I posted, I realized that top skaters are busy people and perhaps it is easier for bother parties (skater and testers) to meet at home.
I just assumed athelets would go to a designated clinic or somewhere to have a test.

What those "testers" were going to do with her, ahem, "sample" at that kind of hour? Would they going to keep it with them till the following morning? Then they would have a plenty of time to tamper with it and made her disqualified...

skelly

10-21-2002, 02:06 PM

Are we not getting all the information here? Based on the article, I would assume that this charge would be thrown out immediately for irregularities, and yet it says that Ina has already lost her first appeal. The expired credentials, alone, I would think, would make this null and void because these two people could not be considered official representatives.

NorthernLite

10-21-2002, 02:15 PM

I'll try to say this as delicately as I can ... don't the testers actually watch while the specimen is being uh, produced? (I was under the impression that was the case to verify the athlete didn't substitute clean urine.)
If *that's* the case, then it's even worse -- they're asking a woman to not only allow two strangers into her home but to watch her in the bathroom.
Add me to the list of people infuriated that they treat the athletes like this while a mass fixing of competitions by judges and the heads of governing bodies is not only going uninvestigated and unpunished but is being actively covered up.

rack

10-21-2002, 02:34 PM

The only source for the story that the testers were uncredentialed and that the hotline was out of service is Kyoko Ina's attorney. Apparently the American Arbitration Association (whatever the heck that is) didn't find that version of events convincing enough to side with her.

I personally always believe what lawyers say, but I'm a little surprised to find so many other people here do as well.:D

rack

10-21-2002, 02:34 PM

Oracle

10-21-2002, 03:16 PM

I tho't Ina & Zimmerman had turned professional, which makes the whole situation a moot point, doesn't it?

duane

10-21-2002, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by skelly
Are we not getting all the information here? Based on the article, I would assume that this charge would be thrown out immediately for irregularities, and yet it says that Ina has already lost her first appeal. The expired credentials, alone, I would think, would make this null and void because these two people could not be considered official representatives.

i totally agree.

if the officials had expired or no credentials when they arrived at Ina's home (regardless of the time), that means they were not legitimate representatives of the USADA, meaning Ina had every right to refuse to give a sample. it does seem that we are not getting the complete story.

on the other matter, perhaps this is due to my Army days, but i dont find the 10:30pm time fishy. the whole idea of random/surprise drug tests is that one can be required to give a test at any moment, meaning one should never use illicit drugs at any moment. we used to get tested at anytime of the day...12pm, 4pm, 2am, 5am. but again, this is the military, and i dont know the rules/procedures of drug testing when it comes to athletes.

2qt2Sk8

10-21-2002, 03:27 PM

what competetion was she being tested for in the summer?? all this hullabaloo for a USFSA fluff comp? Puh-l-eeze!!:x :x :x :x :x :x

IgglesII

10-21-2002, 04:51 PM

USFSA fluff comps pay $$$ - this would harm Kyoko's earning potential, so I don't blame her for being more than a little upset by this.

rack

10-21-2002, 05:25 PM

I apologize for double posting (and yet I post again).

If the two showed up at Kyoko Ina's home without proper credentials, why did she first let them in and then agree to the urine test? Presumably if she had been able to supply them with the requested sample there would have been no problem, so the expired credentials don't seem to be an issue.

I'm not saying the punishment fits the crime (I don't think it does), but there are some problems with her lawyer's version of the events, and I can think of at least one other scenario that could explain why an athlete would refuse to comply with an unannounced drug test.

haribobo

10-21-2002, 05:25 PM

I don't think she was even being tested for any particular competition-- it was just random athlete testing or something.

I think something about this story is strange. If the guys did have expired credentials and Kyoko didn't want them there, she could have called the police and had these men arrested for trespassing or harrassment or something, since they had no right to be there. Why didn't she do this? I have a feeling 1 of the parties was WAY out of line or lying, and we really don't have enough info to make a decision about this at this point. Hopefully we'll learn the truth in days and weeks to come.

**Kyoko seems like a nice young lady in her interviews, but I am not automatically going to believe her side of the story without more information.

duane

10-21-2002, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by rack
If the two showed up at Kyoko Ina's home without proper credentials, why did she first let them in and then agree to the urine test?
there are some problems with her lawyer's version of the events, and I can think of at least one other scenario that could explain why an athlete would refuse to comply with an unannounced drug test.

some may not want to believe it, but this one scenario is very probable.

Trillian

10-21-2002, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by rack
If the two showed up at Kyoko Ina's home without proper credentials, why did she first let them in and then agree to the urine test?

Check out the statement from Kyoko which has now been posted on another thread. It sounds as though she wasn't aware of the expired credentials (or lack of recent training) for the official until after the fact. Granted, there are spins that can be put on any story, but hers sounds pretty believable IMO. Sounds to me like this was an "official" who had no idea what she was doing procedurally, gave Kyoko false or misleading info, and turned out to be improperly trained in the first place. Not to mention that bringing a friend along was completely inappropriate.

And I'd still say that if it's true that the official's credentials weren't current, that's the whole case--a person without credentials can't be considered an official representative of the organization, so Kyoko never "officially" refused a drug test, so that's that.

Aussie Willy

10-21-2002, 06:26 PM

Christopher Dean refused a drug test before the 94 Olympics and the testers had come to his house. But at the time he had a really bad virus, was very sick and just couldn't produce a sample. The person noted he had refused a test with mitigating circumstances and went back a couple of days later to carry it out.

I think the whole things sounds really fishy but I think it is just plain rude for somone to turn up at someone's house at 10.30pm expecting them to comply. Seriously that is just bad manners. I don't even ring friends after 9.30pm because I think that is rude. And obviously she intended to comply because she was willing to do it the next day. I feel very sorry for Kyoko.

cello

10-21-2002, 06:27 PM

Yeah, I'd be interested in why her first appeal was denied, but her story doesn't say that she refused the test but that she couldn't "comply" at the time. There's a difference.

dmr65

10-21-2002, 07:02 PM

This is whole story in the paper seems sloppy and I don't think people should be writing the ISU, yet..

It sounds like the writer read the USADA rules and just assumed Ina would be sacntioned before anything was clear or made definite...

IgglesII

10-21-2002, 07:39 PM

It's 8:41pm at night - I'm still sitting here in my cubicle staring at my official insurance-industry issue computer - wondering where one signs up for that uncredentialled lady's job!

Wandering around with my friends at 10:30 at night, getting paid, hanging out with friends, harrassing the famous - sign me up, that sounds like one sweet job!

:lol:

Lark

10-21-2002, 07:45 PM

Well, we all know this type of stuff is not fair or well thought out.

Remember the little Romanian gymnast in Australia who had her Olympic Gold taken away due to the team doctors mistakes?

I would not be surprised if Kyoko pays the price for the testers stupidity.

JanFUNKY

10-21-2002, 07:48 PM

Here's a statement from their official website:

http://www.figureskatersonline.com/ina-zimmerman/news_articles_003.html

adrianchew

10-21-2002, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by Lark

Remember the little Romanian gymnast in Australia who had her Olympic Gold taken away due to the team doctors mistakes?

Andrea Raducan. I was mad then, and still am mad now - that Raducan was stripped of her medal. :evil:

dbell

10-21-2002, 09:24 PM

Who else remembers the problems with the vaulting equipment at Women's Gymnastics in Australia? I felt so bad for Raducan. She took medicine the team doctor gave her. If you can't trust your doctor to be versed in Olympic Rules....? 8O

About Kyoko - I feel bad for her. She's represented this country admirably for years. I wonder how many of us would be screaming if our employers sent drug testers with expired licenses with their dates to our homes at 10:30 PM asking for samples?! :evil: Would we think it's fair or proper?

duane

10-21-2002, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by dbell
I wonder how many of us would be screaming if our employers sent drug testers with expired licenses with their dates to our homes at 10:30 PM asking for samples?! :evil: Would we think it's fair or proper?

i would pass any drug test today. still, if someone came knocking on my door at anytime to take a drug test--claiming that my employer sent them--the first thing i would do is ask for documentation proving they are who they claim to be. if they couldnt provide such documentation, or if such documentation is expired (expiration dates are given for a reason), i'd send them on their merry way. i definitely wouldnt agree to take the test.

maruko

10-21-2002, 10:54 PM

Yes, I remember the Romanian gymnast, Andrea Raducan. I am heart-broken everytime I think about how she got stripped of her hard-earned gold medal because she took the advice from her own team doctor. Same goes to Elena Berezhnaya who also took the cold medicine according to the advice from her own doctor in New Jersey to treat bronchitis. Now this strange twist on Kyoto?!! Unbelievable. Sometimes I feel the one-strike-you-are-out-we-don't-care-how policy on doping is hurting athethes more than helping them.

As for the issue of tester showing up at 10:30pm at night. Unfortunately, it is not uncommon. I heard during the Winter Olympics, testers drop by athethes' rooms just any hour, any minute.

Also, I noticed that Kyoto found out about the expired credential after the fact. That means she assumed that so-called official has proper creditial when she entered her home. I think that's why USFSA rejected her appeal. I feel so bad for her. It is absolutely ridiculous that she will face 1 million fine plus a 4 year or more ban. Anyway, I would like to hear exactly why USFSA rejected her appeal in the first place.

purplecat

10-21-2002, 11:14 PM

Poor Kyoko! I totally back her up!

You know how hard it is to go when you aren't ready and when someone is staring in your face waiting for you to go! 8O

Unbelievable that the ISU would ban her for 4 years with the hand slap punishments they give to others!!!! :roll:

Rachel

10-21-2002, 11:26 PM

If you are an athlete, you have to comply with drug testing or lose eligibility.

Athletes aren't alone. As duane pointed out, the military does this all the time to people in the military. When my husband and I worked on a military base as civilians, we also had to occasionally "produce" a sample on command. People on probation for drug and alcohol-related crimes are subject to testing at any time, and the probation officers can and will come to your house in the middle of the night and hand you a cup. It's also not unusual for a tester to bring a witness along. It's smart.

Now Kyoko isn't a criminal, or in the military, or working on a base, but that's the deal--when you are subject to random drug-testing, they can show up when and where they want to. Normally, however, if they show up like that--at your house, at a late hour, without warning--it's because they've received a tip.

The thing is, if they thought they were going to find anything, they normally would take extra precautions to ensure that everything was absolutely above-board. Sending someone with expired credentials is just dumb, even on a regular day, and normally both parties would be credentialed. But the late hour and the friend aren't signs of incompetence, at least not in most cases.

I'm perfectly willing to give Kyoko the benefit of the doubt here--clearly, it's all a big mess. But the drug testing people are very hard to beat. I wish her luck.

CMc

10-22-2002, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by Oracle
I tho't Ina & Zimmerman had turned professional, which makes the whole situation a moot point, doesn't it?
Exactly!! Good point!

But while ITA with that, I remember Anissina & Peizerat turned pro also before Marina was in trouble.

Rogue

10-22-2002, 09:09 AM

If they showed up at my house at that hour of night for a drug test, I think I would hand them the scissors and offer to pay the extra cost involved in testing a strand of hair. I understand that test is generally more accurate anyway.

speedy

10-22-2002, 09:43 AM

Good for Kyoko for putting out that statement...she's one hot little firecracker and if the USADA thinks they're going to get away with this, they picked the wrong woman to mess with. And how do they think they can impose a $1 million fine?? Completely outrageous...with all the hijinks and idiocy going on in skating, Kyoko would be fined $1 million for not peeing in a cup for some uncredentialed "agent" and her boyfriend?? :roll: People that refuse Breathalyzer tests aren't even punished nearly so harshly...and which is more dangerous to society? A drunk driver or a pairs figure skater? Sometimes I REALLY wonder about this country we live in and our priorities. And how would they collect this $1 million? Would the USADA garnish her SOI paychecks for the next few years?? I wouldn't think the USADA has the same powers as the IRS (speaking of nimrod government agencies :roll: ) And I don't care if this "boyfriend" was a witness or not, a representative of the USADA should NOT be bringing along a boyfriend as an official witness. Sounds more likely he was there to get to see an Olympic figure skater for some celebrity ogling rather than in an official capacity. I'm so mad right now I'm ready to start a Kyoko Ina Legal Defense Fund LOL.

adrianchew

10-22-2002, 01:35 PM

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/22/1034561486728.html

The news have made its way over to Australia even, and it seems the actual sum is $1.8 million? Maybe they converted from USD to AUS?

maruko

10-22-2002, 09:12 PM

I just completely do not understand the reason behind the 1 million dollar fine. Are the USASA being run by complete nuts? Even if one were to fail the drug test, as did Elena Berezhynia in the very sad and unfortunate case in 2000 for taking over-the-counter cold medicine, the sanction was only for 3 months and stripping of her European title. Even if refusing the test is considered as failing the test, the sanction should not go beyond 3 months. And a million dollar fine? Ridiculous!

It is even more appalling that the CEO of USASA is saying flat out that the sanction is "appropriate".

What kind of message would ISU sent to people if they reinforce the ridiculous sanction on Ina?

Rachel

10-22-2002, 09:34 PM

They would be sending the message that you had better take your drug test when you are told to.

There have been too many drug scandals in the Olympics. The penalties for noncompliance are severe and it is nearly impossible to beat the system. You can thank the Track and Field competitors for this mess.

Lee

10-22-2002, 10:20 PM

For no other reason than to play devil's advocate....

Why hasn't the USFSA issued some sort of statement? (or if they have, my apologies -- I missed it in quickly reviewing this thread)

What purpose does having 'trumped up' charges against Ina serve?

(and now for the totally ridiculous) Was the USADA acting on a *hot tip* planted by someone who's hands (or otherwise) got slapped in the recent brouhaha over the pairs events?

There's too much about this that just sounds too out of whack and too corny for words. While some of my questions are 'tongue-in-cheek,' I *am* curious about a statement from the USFSA.

If there are sanctions and she's unable to compete, that puts their appearance in the Sears Open in December in question. Certainly there's money at stake -- and a reputation.

I hope something is figured out PDQ -- another 'scandal' is NOT what the sport needs...(although maybe with a drug scandal, the rest of the sporting world would finally consider skating to BE a sport???? :P)

Aussie Willy

10-23-2002, 08:03 AM

Adrian - I am shocked that this actually made it on an Australian newspaper website. Skating never makes it into Australian news. But then it is a drug scandal and scandal is the only reason why skating would get coverage in the Australian media.

As for your question about the exchange rate, basically we pay $2AU for every $1US so they have probably translated it into Australian dollars.