Jackson boots....

[cazzie]

We don't have great local skate-fitters! Certainly they attempt to be helpful but by and large they're hockey skaters who work in the skate shop. (I could travel 4 - 5 hours.....) They fit the hockey teams skates to a high level but we generally ahve to wing it a bit for the figure skaters.

Both kids have outgrown their ice skates.

Commonest brand the kids use here are Edea. Both my kids have narrow heels and ankles (slim feet too) so these are difficult to fit on them. Risport take ages to arrive. Riedell- limited range. Graf - shuts for the summer and no stock!

With my son - when we tried the Edea correct size for his lenght of foot the ankle was swamped. They recommended Jackson Freestyle - said it has a narrower heel. Although don't keep it in stock and need to order it in. (His really young coach skates in Jackson so heartily recommends them although doesn't know that much about the lower level boots). He's a skinny 7 year old working on flip combinations and lutz. He's doing preparation for axel but not likely to start working on it formally for a while. Does it sound reasonable? (I still need to check what blade comes with it as they seem to come with blades. Currently he just has Mark IV blades).

Daughter - working on doubles (landing about half her double flips, falling on all her double lutz). Current skates are Graf Richmond which she loves - but - these are a bit wide around the heel. She has outgrown them and they are the only brand which has lasted so far. The bigger size Graf just seem to get too wide around the heel to even consider them. (Risport RF3 likely to fit but they don't have her size and stock taking a long time to arrive).

They suggested Jackson Elite. They've ordered them in as well so guess we'll see. (She tried on a recreational Jackson which they do keep in stock and said they felt great).

Jackson is quite new to us so very little idea about them. Daughter's coach has no experience of Jackson.

Would love to hear any experiences - good or bad or indifferent.

(The fitter 4 -5 hours away keeps SP Terri's and various other boots but would rather not travel that far if I could help it).

[momof3chicks]

My dd (9) has those Jacksons, she weighs about 95 lbs, she is very solid for a young girl and jumps pretty high, she has up to double lutz and is working on double axel. She is just starting to skate Juvenile.

We HATE these boots...hate, hate, hate them. They are so stiff that she can no longer tie her own skates (and she was before these), they are so stiff that she couldn't bend her knees and ended up with a heel injury (landing foot) and she still finds them uncomfortable 7 months later.

I don't know what we are going to do, I see other kids wearing them, but she hates them.

[Schmeck]

Jacksons are the only non-custom skates that fit my daughter's narrow ankles and heels. She's a very strong, deep edge skater, and does tend to break down these boots quickly (even just doing dance and MITF and synchro) but she loves how they fit, and they give her enough support to last about a year with the proper care. She's 5'9" and about 125 lbs.

momof3chicks, sounds like the boot is too much skate for your daughter - we've seen that happen at our rink, and once the skater gets a less heavy duty skate, all is well again. You will just likely have to buy her skates more often, as the thinner ones will break down more quickly.

[sk8tmum]

Jacksons' do NOT have a narrow heel. Riedell does. My guys both have very narrow heels; they had major problems with Jacksons. My son had achilles tendon damage as a result. I believe that Jackson has addressed the problem, however, there was an issue with "spreading" of the heels after a certain period of wear, which made it worse. However, note that I am referring to a "narrow" heel as being in the AA to AAA range. Others would consider an A to be narrow, and maybe they would be okay for someone in that range.

Elites are stiff, heavy boots. My son could not bend them with a year of heavy skating. They sit in the top of my closet looking like they've never been skated in ... not a crease or a bend at all. I have had many other skaters with the same complaint in our club.

As for the Freestyles - too stiff for your son - go down the next level. That would be a good boot for him.

Riedell will absolutely work with you. Their customer service is phenomenal - have your skate shop send them a drawing, and they will send you the right boots out. Their reps - top notch - and they have a great range of boots available, plus split widths that let you go, say, A/AAA for free, and more of a discrepancy, for example, B/AAA for a small charge. It's a thought. I've always figured that I have to spend the biggest part of my time and budget on the right skates - as that is the key, critical most important part of our skating needs - even if it means travelling, or waiting for a bit. Having seen the damage done to my son's feets by the Jackson mis-fit (and also a painful period in another pair of misfitting skates that have left him with permanent scarring on his feet) - my focus is always on what is on their feet.


BTW: You will note that every parent has strong opinions on skates - Schmeck and I for example disagree on Jacksons as you can see - the reason being that there is no "one solution" for skaters - while some "narrow feet" fit Riedell well, other "narrow feet" fit Jacksons well. You absolutely need to find a good fitter, it's worth the time and money, especially as you do no want to be switching brands and makes.

[momof3chicks]

momof3chicks, sounds like the boot is too much skate for your daughter - we've seen that happen at our rink, and once the skater gets a less heavy duty skate, all is well again. You will just likely have to buy her skates more often, as the thinner ones will break down more quickly.

I think you are right, and honestly, after what we have been through with these skates, I'd gladly buy the boots more often. :giveup: Now I worry though about going to a less stiff skate, as she is more or less used to it...but maybe it would be ok.

[Schmeck]

Jacksons' do NOT have a narrow heel. Riedell does.
BTW: You will note that every parent has strong opinions on skates - Schmeck and I for example disagree on Jacksons as you can see - the reason being that there is no "one solution" for skaters - while some "narrow feet" fit Riedell well, other "narrow feet" fit Jacksons well. You absolutely need to find a good fitter, it's worth the time and money, especially as you do no want to be switching brands and makes.



I agree that we disagree! Riedells were too loose in the heel for me and my daughter - I get around it by wearing achilles bunga pads, since I rarely skate and my Riedells are barely broken in, and I refuse to spend any more money for my skating. My daughter's feet aren't even on the narrow side until you get to her heel and ankle, she buys wide width shoes, which fit her foot, but not her heel. Her feet kind of resemble a slice of pizza... :lol: Anyways, the Jacksons work for her feet, and she can lace them very tightly and her heel stays put, which never happened in her Riedells, even when her dad would use a skate hook to get the last bit pulled in, after she'd bang her heel in so hard we'd get looks :roll:

Now, we just have to find a less expensive pair of ballet pointe shoes for her younger sister, who has round, 'sausage feet' and fits beautifully in $85 Russian Pointes. When you go through 2-3 pairs a year (at least) it would be nice if they were the $42 ones. But as she says each time - 'Mom, all my shoes together for dance don't cost as much as one of my sister's skates!' Yes, dear, but we don't cut the satin off the toes (pointe), scrape/split the soles off (tap), wear holes in the toes (ballet and jazz) of the $600 skates!

[sk8tmum]

Now, we just have to find a less expensive pair of ballet pointe shoes for her younger sister, who has round, 'sausage feet' and fits beautifully in $85 Russian Pointes. When you go through 2-3 pairs a year (at least) it would be nice if they were the $42 ones. But as she says each time - 'Mom, all my shoes together for dance don't cost as much as one of my sister's skates!' Yes, dear, but we don't cut the satin off the toes (pointe), scrape/split the soles off (tap), wear holes in the toes (ballet and jazz) of the $600 skates!

Sigh. Bloch 13AAA (child not women's size) ballet slippers and Riedell TS 133 for tiniest. The 13AAA still a bit - wide and the Riedells perfect. We won't discuss the joys of buying running shoes; GEOX is our lifesaver there. Don't you wish that you could march into shoe stores, skate stores etc, and declaim: My Child Has Type ABNegativeSubSetV1 Feet Please Bring Out the Type ABNegativeSubSetV1 Feet Ones For Her.

[cazzie]

So relieved for this advice.

I had categorically told the skate shop that I wanted nothign harder than Graf Richmond equivalent for my daughter (age 11 1/2 about 85 pounds) and nothing harder than Edea Overture equivalent for my son (age 7 and maximum about 50 pounds). Personally I thought maybe the RIchmond's were a bit much for her initially - seemed to take her a while to get back decent hydroglides and change foot sit spins etc. after she went into Richmond's.

Looking on the web-site I guess competitor is one down from the elite and either mystique or premier is one down from freestyle?

I looked to see if there was a web-site comparing hardness of different brands of boots to see if they could be compared - found loads of inline skating and nothing for ice-skating boots!

Will be trying the contact a couple of other fitters. There is one who will be visiting in about a months time.

I've borrowed some second hand Risport RF 4's to try with my son. (Need to get them sharpened). If they work will buy them.

The only Riedell stocked here seem to be yellow, red and blue ribbon and seem to be wide or regular.

[Sessy]

I thought Classique was 1 down from Freestyle? Freestyle is about 200 euro, Mystique 100 and Classique inbetween at 160 it seems so I'd guess that anyway.

[Sessy]

Sigh. Bloch 13AAA (child not women's size) ballet slippers and Riedell TS 133 for tiniest. The 13AAA still a bit - wide and the Riedells perfect. We won't discuss the joys of buying running shoes; GEOX is our lifesaver there. Don't you wish that you could march into shoe stores, skate stores etc, and declaim: My Child Has Type ABNegativeSubSetV1 Feet Please Bring Out the Type ABNegativeSubSetV1 Feet Ones For Her.

Not just children either, you could be on to something here. How come bra's do come in undersize and cup size and shoes are only measured by the length?

[Isk8NYC]

My kids (12) have worn Jackson Freestyles for years. They do have wide feet, so at times they wear "C" width and other times "B" width. I think it's because of growth spurts - they usually outgrow the "C" width skates faster, so it's just timing.

FWIW, when they were fitted last month for new skates, the fitter remarked that Jackson had recently resized their boots and the heels were wider now. Their new skates are "B" width boots and our pro shop doesn't heat-mold, so they're breaking them in old-school. (I'm really looking forward to those complaints.)

They've never complained about heel slippage. I wonder if the Elite boot is made with a different last than the Freestyle?
The Competitor used to size exactly the same as the Freestyle.

Riedell created a gap in their skate line when they renamed everything last year. The "better" affordable boot-and-blade sets are the 121TS w/ Quest Topaz blade ($140) and 133TS w/ Quest Onyx blade ($150.) Both have PVC bottoms but the blades are attached with screws. The 133TS was the Blue Ribbon.

The next higher skate she offerred was the 255TS ($250), which is all-leather, but you have to buy blades separately so the set end up costing over $300. Most parents don't want to spend that much for a recreational skater.

Riedell used to have the Medallion series that fit in between the Ribbons and the boot-only models. They were all-leather with a decent stock blade and the price was reasonable -- around $250-260.

If the heels are too narrow but everything else fits well, couldn't you have the pro shop stretch that spot out a bit to fit better? (Or heat-mold the skates in that spot with a commercial hair dryer?)

[sk8tmum]

I'm showing the Riedell TS 255 with the Onynx Blade at suggested $285 - ???

http://www.ice.riedellskates.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductName=255-TS

Why I'm checking is that is probably the next one up for littlest one; granted, we'll likely change the blade if she's doing well, however, that Onyx blade is working okay with her. The 310 LS looks around the same pricing point too with the Onyx ...

http://www.ice.riedellskates.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductName=910-LS

Anyways, in terms of the Jacksons, there is no Classique or Artiste for the boys, it's a gap in their line; most of the boys seem to use the Mystique, however, I still find that one to be fairly inflexible, particularly for lightweight kids. If they learn to skate at that age without a knee bend, it's hard to get them to re-learn it later. My one kid is in Klingbeils - work for him - however, I must say that my tiny 10-th percentile in weight daughter was able to bend the 133 Riedells in a couple of weeks, and had a knee bend in 3 - which impressed me.

[dbny]

I think one reason for differing opinions on heel width, particularly with Riedells, is that some heels project back more than others. This is never a part of any measurement. Riedells have a particularly deep heel cup, so even for narrow feet, if the heel bones do not project back much (achilles is fairly straight) the heels will move. My daughter has permanent bumps on her heels from Riedells. After we put her in custom Klingbeils, they got smaller, but never went away completely.

[renatele]

FWIW, when they were fitted last month for new skates, the fitter remarked that Jackson had recently resized their boots and the heels were wider now.

Very interesting! I've heard the complete opposite: that Jackson now made their heels close to a size narrower, as about a year+ ago the heel cups of their boots had problem with opening up after a fairly short period of time. My good friend had that happen to her, and I've seen quite a few complaints on the internet about the heel slippage, too. The fitter said that they have redesigned the toebox to be rounder, though.

To those who cannot break in the Elites and suffer in them: have them heat-molded, and bend the ankles very aggressively while the boots are still warm. Did that 4 years ago...

[renatele]

Looking on the web-site I guess competitor is one down from the elite and either mystique or premier is one down from freestyle?

Freestyle model #: 2010
Premiere: 2500
Elite: 2900

So premiere is one down from elite, one up from freestyle.

[sk8tmum]

I think one reason for differing opinions on heel width, particularly with Riedells, is that some heels project back more than others. This is never a part of any measurement. Riedells have a particularly deep heel cup, so even for narrow feet, if the heel bones do not project back much (achilles is fairly straight) the heels will move. My daughter has permanent bumps on her heels from Riedells. After we put her in custom Klingbeils, they got smaller, but never went away completely.

Definitely. When she was in Jacksons, the fitter would spend quite a bit of time "reshaping" the heel cup so that it was higher at the back than the norm. Otherwise, misery and pain ensued. With Riedells, not necessary as they fit perfectly around the back of her heels (and we could get the AA or AAA width we needed in stock). I would have been intrigued to find out if the Riedells would have alleviated the Achilles tendon problem caused by Jacksons in my other kid, however, as that primary coach dictated THOU SHALT BUY KLINGBEIL - we never found out :lol:

[sk8tmum]

Very interesting! I've heard the complete opposite: that Jackson now made their heels close to a size narrower, as about a year+ ago the heel cups of their boots had problem with opening up after a fairly short period of time. My good friend had that happen to her, and I've seen quite a few complaints on the internet about the heel slippage, too. The fitter said that they have redesigned the toebox to be rounder, though.

Yup, that they did, and yup, the heel slippage was real: we had that, note earlier comments about Achilles damage as a result. I wonder if the newly acquired GAM division is influencing Jackson skates - ? But, that's another thread of speculation on its own. I did note that the new Freestyles look different on the feet, and they're also stamping them on the tongue the way that they do with the other lower end models with the model type (very GAM-ish).

[sk8tmum]

Freestyle model #: 2010
Premiere: 2500
Elite: 2900

So premiere is one down from elite, one up from freestyle.

And Competitor is gone, but, they now have a "guy" skate inbetween Freestyle and Elite, which they didn't have before.

[isakswings]

My kids (12) have worn Jackson Freestyles for years. They do have wide feet, so at times they wear "C" width and other times "B" width. I think it's because of growth spurts - they usually outgrow the "C" width skates faster, so it's just timing.



Question: Do you know if you can buy Freestyles in narrow? I thought when our pro shop looked into it last year, you couldn't get them in a narrow width. But, if you can get them in a "c" width, maybe I can order them in a narrow width? I would want the boot only and then we would order a blade seperately. It will all depend on the cost too. Dd liked her Freestyle boots last year. They were "b" width. She needs a narrow width... still can't believe how much easier it was for her to tighten the narrows she tried on at the rink the other day! Of coarse, those boots were Riedells and not Jackson. Dd likes both brands and skated in Riedell up until last year.

[isakswings]

Question: Do you know if you can buy Freestyles in narrow? I thought when our pro shop looked into it last year, you couldn't get them in a narrow width. But, if you can get them in a "c" width, maybe I can order them in a narrow width? I would want the boot only and then we would order a blade seperately. It will all depend on the cost too. Dd liked her Freestyle boots last year. They were "b" width. She needs a narrow width... still can't believe how much easier it was for her to tighten the narrows she tried on at the rink the other day! Of coarse, those boots were Riedells and not Jackson. Dd likes both brands and skated in Riedell up until last year.

Never mind. I looked on the Jackson site and see they do come in narrow widths. Now I need to check the price of the boots.