how do private lesson fees work??

[sleepyhead]

My beginner 5 y/o skater has one 30-minute private pw, and I pay the coach cash each week.
From what another mum of a beginner has said, I think this is pretty normal between coaches and beginers?? If not, please enlighten me!!
But I don't think I've ever seen cash change hands between coach and a parent of a frequent skater. How do they pay?? Is it pw or p/month? Is it still usually cash? And is it cheaper per lesson - and how much? (say for 2/3/4 privates pw which seems fairly common around here).
And what happens if their skater is sick or something? And do you pay less for less desirable lesson times??
Rumour around here has it that we don't pay if sick provided we give 24 hrs notice so they can schedule an extra lesson for someone else.
And how do you know if you're getting charged more/less/same as everyone else?? :mrgreen:

[sk8tmum]

Every coach, rink and country seems to have their own norms. And some coaches do have different rates/hour for different "types" of lessons - i.e. a dance lesson costs different $ vs a freeskate lesson.

Ourselves, we pay our coaches by money transfer or cheque based on their monthly, bi-weekly or quarterly invoice. No pre-payment packages available; they all have their own hourly rates; and they do publicize them. Parents talk, you see, and if one coach was using different billing ratesper skater: :roll: it would get out, and there would be conflict!

[aussieskater]

From my (limited) observation, it seems that the more serious (read: competitive) skaters who have multiple lessons a week tend to pay not at the end of the lesson but by the time period (month, week etc). I have no idea whether they pay by direct credit or cheque rather than cash.

As far as a discount for a less popular time - not that I ever heard of.

It's up to the coach as to what happens if a skater is unable to make the lesson, and will depend on the reason, how much notice was given, whether the coach is able to rebook, and whether it's a regular occurrence! It seems that the more reliable you are in general, the more likely you are to be let off paying!

I don't know whether the coaches charge differently for different students where you are. As far as I can tell, down here they seem to mostly charge everyone the same, "package deals" (see below) excepted.

(As an aside, I don't know how the elites do it unless they obtain a significant "package" discount for multiple lessons - if you're taking an hour lesson 5 times a week and each hour is costing you say $70, that adds up to something in the order of $15K-20K a year, in coaching alone!! Then add in ice time, choreo, music cutting, skates, blades, sharpenings, costumes, travel and accommodation for self plus coach to comps, paying for coach's missed lessons while s/he's with the skater at said comp...you get the picture.)

[phoenix]

re, coaches' fees--in my area (U.S.) coaches are self employed & everyone sets their own rates. This will depend on the coach's experience, both as a competitive skater and a coach, and also on what the going rates are in their geographic area. I teach in one city and have my lessons in another, and in the city where I have my lessons, all the coaches charge WAY more than where I teach. My lesson fee for teaching is less than 1/2 what my own coach charges; however he has a medal from Worlds and skated in the Olympics!

So it's very likely that you are not paying the same as everyone else on the ice; some are probably paying more and some less, depending on who the coach is. Also, you definitely don't need the hugely expensive coach to start with. A very good basic level coach can give your skater a great start, and pass them on to a higher level coach as the skater progresses.

[sleepyhead]

....I don't know how the elites do it unless they obtain a significant "package" discount for multiple lessons - if you're taking an hour lesson 5 times a week and each hour is costing you say $70, that adds up to something in the order of $15K-20K a year, in coaching alone!! Then add in ice time, choreo, music cutting, skates, blades, sharpenings, costumes, travel and accommodation for self plus coach to comps, paying for coach's missed lessons while s/he's with the skater at said comp...you get the picture.)

Oh lord I can't breathe!! 8O8O One can only hope ....

[blue111moon]

As far as I know, all the coaches in my area have different rates (the average is around $1 a minute) and they each charge all their skaters the same rate. One or two I know have made exceptions for long-term skaters in extreme cases - father lost job, mother died - by offering temporary reduced rates. But that's rare. Generally the kids whose parents can't afford skating just drop out. It's an expensive sport.

Most people pay by check. So if you're not seeing money change hands, that's probably why. Checks are handed over either at the end of the lesson, or if the skater has multiple lessons a week, at the end of the week. I pay my coach monthly because then I only ave to write one check and she only has to deposit one. Plus she likes having the big lump sum at once. :)

I do know of a couple places where the rink hires the coaches at set fees per lesson; all the coaches get the same hourly rate, paid by the rink management. Parents pay the rink, generally by the month or by the session which can be between eight and twelve weeks.

Elite skating (at the national level) is very expensive. But since the bvast majority of kids never get out of the regional level, and even that's a long way down the road, I don't think it's something most parents should worry about when the child is just starting out. Also, if the kid should be that one in a million and end up a National champion, some elite coaches generally work out contracts, like agents, for a percentage of the skater's earnings rather than a flat per-lesson rate.

But again that's not something parents of beginners have to worry about.

[RachelSk8er]

My coach and several others have someone who handles all their billing for them (pretty sure it's the mom of a skater that does this for them in exchange for lessons), so they're pretty organized. They have 3 different options on how skaters pay--they can pre-pay punch cards, be billed monthly, or have their credit/debit card automatically charged every 2 weeks. If you go the bi-weekly billing, any balance is automatically charged once you hit 60 days (that way coaches are getting paid and not screwed over). Personally I get billed monthly but I hand my coach a check for the same amount (2 weeks worth of lessons) every other week when I get paid. It works out fine, sometimes it gets off because we may have to skip/cancel a lesson one week, or another week we may add an extra lesson if it works in our schedules, but it all evens out in the end. My bill shows any extra money I owe him or any credits I have, and if I ever stop taking from him we'll worry about reconciling it then.

My last synchro team worked that way too, we could pay our montly fees by check or by credit card. Everyone had to have a credit card on file and if we didn't pay our monthly dues by the 20th of each month or make special arrangements, we automatically got charged. (So if you wanted to pay by credit card, you didn't have to do anything, they'd just automatically run it.)

When I was a kid/teenager, we just gave my coach cash or a check every week (although she did keep track and do montly bills so some skaters paid that way). Once I hit 14 and was working I had to pay for my own private lessons, so paying weekly was just easier for me to manage.

At my rink in college, we had to buy punch cards in advance from the rink. They were color-coded based on your coach's rate, and you gave it to your coach at each lesson. They turned those in and the rink paid them bi-weekly. (I'm pretty sure that meant that taxes and whatnot were taken care of that way, this was a university rink so technically they were paid by the university.)

[Isk8NYC]

The 24-hour cancellation remark makes me wonder if the OP learned it from the Skating Parents Bleacher Bums (a scary group, lol, j/k) or from the coach. If the OP hasn't already gone over the rules, now's a perfect time, before the fall season arrives and things get more hectic.
Here are the things a skater or parent need to ask the coach about private lessons:

1) What is your cancellation policy?
Many coaches do require 24-hour notice so that they can fill the empty lesson slot. Not all will charge if the slot goes empty, but some will. I rarely need it here, except for families who stand me up once, but in NY/NJ, it was a really useful tool, especially when I was commuting to the rink solely for that lesson.



2) What are your rates for:

private lessons (and do they vary by type of lesson: Moves, Freestyle, etc.)
editing music for programs
choreography for programs
off-ice training (if available)
test/competition warmup sessions (and do they vary by home / away)
test/competition events (again home vs. away, plus multiple events/competition)
travel expenses for away competitions
3) With whom do you team-coach/-teach?
Some coaches work well together because their styles match or their teaching skills complement each other, so they form little alliances.

4) What is your favored payment method?
Almost everyone accepts "pay as you go" because it eliminates having to track what's owed. Some coaches track each lesson and then submit an invoice to be paid weekly/monthly/quarterly.

Be aware that the same coach may charge different rates at different rinks. When I lived in NYC, I set a higher fee for some rinks in NJ because of the tolls involved in commuting. However, when I taught on Club ice in NJ, I didn't charge the higher fee because the Club didn't charge me a commission - it netted out to the same income. At my current rink, my kids' coach charges the same rate for a 30 minute lesson on rink and club freestyles, however, I pay her by check for the club ice sessions since there is no commission for the rink. (The club rents the ice from the rink, so the rink is not entitled to a commission.)

Some coaches with long-time students who take multiple lessons/week often give that student a discount on their lesson rate. I've given discounts to skaters with disabilities, families who had two daughters taking private lessons with me, and skaters who had been with me for two or more years.

So, don't feel you're being cheated if you aren't being charged the same rate. I don't know any way to ask about that politely - it would come off as nosy or shrewd. I'd just wouldn't worry about it since you agreed to pay $x. What someone else pays doesn't affect your agreement.

At my old rink, the students paid me directly. I had to make change and accept checks that sometimes imitated Tigger. At my current rink, the front desk collects the lesson fees (cash/check/credit) and the student gives me a receipt for my payment. Every two weeks, the rink cuts me a check for the payments received less my commission, which I have to reconcile with my own records. (There have been discrepancies, which are a pain to resolve. It was easier trying to make change of a $100 bill for a $20 lesson, lol.)

Most of my students pay for each lesson, but there are other some who pay for five or ten lessons in advance and then we both track the use. I hate monthly billing invoices - I always had this horrible feeling in my stomach when my DD's former coach would hand out those slips. I'd cringe to open it, and find out I didn't owe anything, but the response beforehand always made it a bad experience, lol.

As for Elite skaters, I believe that once the skater begins earning money from their skating (Stars on Ice, personal appearances, etc.) their agent contracts with the skating professional for a revenue-sharing percentage. I assume that's in lieu of individual lesson payments.

I read a really good fundraising blurb some time ago suggesting that donors support their favorite skaters by donating the cost of a sharpening - around $25. I think it was a clever way to justify a $25 contribution to that campaign. I'm not sure what the trickle-down effect of that would be - perhaps the skater would receive half or 3/4 of the monies?

[RachelSk8er]

Some coaches with long-time students who take multiple lessons/week often give that student a discount on their lesson rate. I've given discounts to skaters with disabilities, families who had two daughters taking lesson with me, and skaters who had been with me for two or more years. So, don't feel you're being cheated if you aren't being charged the same rate.

Most coaches also periodically raise their rates as the economy dictates or as they earn new PSA certifications or whatnot, but some of them will only raise rates on new students that they take on, and not their existing ones (or they won't raise them as much for the existing ones). My coach raised his rates this year, but not on anyone who has been taking from him for 3+ years.

[Isk8NYC]

The head pro I adored in NYC had exactly that situation - she was tracking three or four different rates because she had "grandfathered" so many of her students when she raised her rates over the years. At one point, it became ridiculous how little she was charging the "tenured" students. When the college freshman/newbie coach was charging more than she was (for some students), she realized that it was time to realign her lesson fees.

She did her homework (as always) - checking to see what other pros were charging and what commission rates were here and there, then she changed her rate and recommended rates for each of staff coaches. All voluntary changes, but as she pointed out, inflation has a way of creeping up on established coaches.

[isakswings]

My beginner 5 y/o skater has one 30-minute private pw, and I pay the coach cash each week.
From what another mum of a beginner has said, I think this is pretty normal between coaches and beginers?? If not, please enlighten me!!
But I don't think I've ever seen cash change hands between coach and a parent of a frequent skater. How do they pay?? Is it pw or p/month? Is it still usually cash? And is it cheaper per lesson - and how much? (say for 2/3/4 privates pw which seems fairly common around here).
And what happens if their skater is sick or something? And do you pay less for less desirable lesson times??
Rumour around here has it that we don't pay if sick provided we give 24 hrs notice so they can schedule an extra lesson for someone else.
And how do you know if you're getting charged more/less/same as everyone else?? :mrgreen:

I've paid weekly and I pay every 2 weeks. I really try to not let it go longer because it stresses me out! The reason I pay every 2 weeks, is because that is when my pay periods are. I think you need to do what makes you comfortable. Your coach will love that you pay weekly and then you don't have to worry about being behind(I hate that feeling!)

As for sick times... thankfully my dd is not sick often, but my daughter's coach has a 24 hour notice cancellation policy. This is new and I would guess it is because too many students were either cancelling at the last moment or not showing up(or being late). She does not charge us if we give sufficient notice but will charge us the full lesson fee if we are late or do not give appropriate notice. Obviously, in certain circumstances, she would likely wave the fee, but IMO, I think she is being fair. She takes the time to make sure she is on time, drive to the ice rink and is ready to teach. If we are late or do not show up, it is very inconsiderate and she deserves to be paid for her time. I know there have been students who have been no call/no shows and I am sure that is very frustrating!

Anyway...good luck to your son!

[jazzpants]

I pay after every lesson, if not every other week. With my tertiary coach, I don't see him as often so I just pay him when I see him. With my secondary coach, she has a cheaper rate for cash vs. checks b/c of the hassles involved in her going to cash the checks. With my primary coach... well, when I was working with him as just my choreographer, I wasn't sure how long I was going to stay with him. But now the reason why I'm paying him weekly now is b/c of an inside joke about going underground and giving him money for his coffee habit! :twisted:

(Seriously, it's because I don't like writing checks. New checkbooks cost more $$$ now.) The only thing I have to remember is to grab money out of the ATM each week so I would have money to pay them and I do that on a weekly basis anyway.

It really depends on the coach though. At my rink, there are independent coaches (who you pay directly and the rink charges them a certain coaching fee) and staff coaches (which you pay at the Pro Shop and show the receipt.) My NYC coach is probably independent, but I pay him at the front desk and show a receipt.

[niupartyangel]

I pay my coach every other week in check. She actually leaves it up to me to keep track of what lessons are paid for, which I do in my calendar/planner. if we missed a day (ie., 2 weeks ago we didn't meet because she texted me that morning telling me she caught her son's cold) then I mark it accordingly so I know not to pay for that day. The every other week schedule works for me too because that's when I get paid. I have thought about paying her at the end of the month but then I'm scared I'll spend the money before then :twisted:

The check method is also good because I write on the Memo line what dates the payment was for, so she can see that and I also have a record on my duplicate copy (in addition to what's in my planner)

She doesn't charge me if I give advanced notice of cancelling. I usually don't cancel unless I'm sick (i try to do so by letting her know the night before) or if I have plans for that weekend (vacation, out of town guests). She has actually cut down on her coaching once she became a mom, and just does private lessons now and there's only 3 of us she takes on saturday mornings. Girl A from 6 - 6:30, me from 6:30-7:30 then girl B from 7:30- 8 am. if girl B is going to miss her slot then my coach lets me know and asks me if I want an extra hour of lesson or if I want an extra hour of sleep. I usually take sleep :mrgreen: so Girl A ends up getting that extra hour sleep too, lol.

So even if I cancelled (though I dont just show up or anything like that) due to any reason, I don't have to feel guilty that I didn't give her enough notice to try to book another student because we are her only students.

[GoSveta]

I pay every week in cash. I'm not a fan of checks and do no use them when I don't have to (i.e. paying a bill in the middle of the night the day before it's due... i'll use a check. paying a coach... cash baby!).

I keep track of everything in Outlook. I have a task that recurs every Friday to tell me I have to pay her, and since I use Microsoft Exchange, my phone has the same information on it. I'm going to buy a planner soon. I need something to take notes on/in, anyways.

I did have a situation where my car broke down on my way home from the rink one Thursday, and I had to get it fixed ASAP. She didn't have any issue waiting a week. We did our lessons throughout that next week and I paid her that Friday.

I used to have issues being late (to lessons, not to pay), but she makes me go an hour early to "warm up." Usually if I'm late, I just pay for the entire session as planned (if I planned for an hour lesson and was 15 minutes late, I'll pay for 50 minutes anyways, cause it's my hiccup).

[kssk8fan]

our coaches invoice us bi-weekly and we have 10 days to pay. I typically pay the same or next day because I hate the feeling of being late (check is better for record keeping, but I do pay in cash sometimes). I would assume most coaches would be happy with pay as you go - however I did have my daughter work with another coach recently b/c her primary was out of town. She took one lesson and I paid her in cash that day. Unfortunately, she didn't remember I paid her and invoiced me again. We discussed it and so as not to make it a big deal, I paid her again - that time in the form of a check. In 6 years, that has only happened to me twice!

[Skittl1321]

I think I'm the odd duck out because I pay ahead of time. For my first coach it was part of a "bargain" deal- I got a greatly reduced rate in return for paying on the first of the month. The deal was if I canceled, no refund (even with notice) but if he canceled, I was obviously not charged. The reduced rate more than made up for any lessons I had to miss in the long run.

My current coach I do that also- She originally invoiced me, but then I wouldn't run into her or have a lesson for awhile and I hated the idea of not paying her. So now I give her a $100 check and she lets me know when it's "run out".

Due to injuries my lessons have been sporadic- so I haven't paid her again in ages. That money sure lasts when you don't take lessons...

[Scarlett]

I have two coaches. I am invoiced monthly (in theory) and pay by check the next time I see them (also in theory). I have a crazy work schedule and they both have young children so canceled lessons can and do happen but everyone is pretty flexible.

[icestalker]

My beginner 5 y/o skater has one 30-minute private pw, and I pay the coach cash each week.
From what another mum of a beginner has said, I think this is pretty normal between coaches and beginers?? If not, please enlighten me!!
But I don't think I've ever seen cash change hands between coach and a parent of a frequent skater. How do they pay?? Is it pw or p/month? Is it still usually cash? And is it cheaper per lesson - and how much? (say for 2/3/4 privates pw which seems fairly common around here).
And what happens if their skater is sick or something? And do you pay less for less desirable lesson times??
Rumour around here has it that we don't pay if sick provided we give 24 hrs notice so they can schedule an extra lesson for someone else.
And how do you know if you're getting charged more/less/same as everyone else?? :mrgreen:

My rink has all the coach's fees listed underneath the freestyle schedule. So the coaches can't charge anybody more or less, since the fee they should be charging is publicly listed.
My rink also has a policy that if you don't cancel a lesson 24 hrs before the lesson, you pay whether or not you were at the lesson.
My rink has another policy that you must pay for the lesson before even stepping on the ice. The coach won't (or shouldn't) give you the lesson unless you produce a receipt for the lesson. You pay for the lesson and for the ice time at the front desk, the desk gives you the receipt and transfers the money to the coach. This is a big pain for me since I don't have pockets on my skating pants or shirts. I have to roll the receipt up and keep it in my glove and avoid getting my hands sweaty before the lessons.

This is just my rink. Other rinks have very different policies. My rink has very many skaters, usually about 10-15 are in one freestyle (freestyles are back to back for the whole morning and early afternoon), so this is the most efficient, fastest, and secure way to have lessons paid for and money given to coach. I would think the rink does this to make sure nothing is going on with the coach giving different rates for different people and different times.

If your skater's a beginner, group lessons would do her just fine unless the group lesson system is horrible, uses 16 year old coaches and divides the classes and levels wrongly. But if they have the highly rated private coaches in the group lesson, have a limit on how many can be in one group, equally divide the levels & make sure every skater gets attention, then your daughter will do great and it'll save you money. It'll also expose her to more coaches. I picked my coach because she had coached me in my group lessons before and I liked her the best out of the other coaches. (Actually, she wasn't the one I liked the most, I just knew that she was the one who kicked my butt the hardest.)

As for your other questions, it varies among rinks and coaches. I have heard of monthly bills, of course, that wouldn't be allowed at a rink like mine. Some coaches do discount for 'package deal' type things, some coaches will allow semi-privates, some coaches prefer different payment methods, some coaches charge less for basic skaters, you get the idea.