Heel injury and boot fit?

[momof3chicks]

My 9 yo dd got new skates in December and has been STRUGGLING with them the whole time. First they were giving her horrendous blisters, everywhere- even on the top of the toes. I took them back to the fitter several times and nothing really changed.

Then I went to a new fitter, he thought (as did her coach) the boots were too big. So he put something under the foot pad to take up the room and the blisters finally stopped. But no sooner did that happen and she started to get heel pain, on her landing foot.

I am starting to wonder if the skates are the issue here- and if they are just too much skate for her. She is maybe 90 lbs, has an axel, a several doubles (when her heel isn't killing her). She WAS in a Jackson Competitor, and now she has Jackson Elites- they are really quite stiff.

The new fitter didn't say anything about the boot being too stiff for her, but it just seems a bit of a coincidence that all these problems happen with the new skates.

She is going to a sports injury doctor today.

[sk8tmum]

a) take her to a physiotherapist or doctor to get it checked. Heel pain can be a lot of things, which you are doing already. Take the skates with you, BTW.
b) a 90 lb skater in a Elite - that's surprising. That's a very stiff and heavy boot. I would question the Competitor, let alone the Elite. Doubles and an axel aren't the issue, the weight, the stroking ability, strength etc are the point to consider.

[momof3chicks]

a) take her to a physiotherapist or doctor to get it checked. Heel pain can be a lot of things, which you are doing already. Take the skates with you, BTW.
b) a 90 lb skater in a Elite - that's surprising. That's a very stiff and heavy boot. I would question the Competitor, let alone the Elite. Doubles and an axel aren't the issue, the weight, the stroking ability, strength etc are the point to consider.

Thanks, she was fine in her competitors before, but was breaking them down after 9 months, so he put her in the stiffer boot. She is unusually strong for a kid her age, but with all the issues, I am starting to be concerned about the boot.

[Query]

Ask the fitter.

But since it only started after the pads were put in, maybe her heels are now too tight? Try replacing each pad with one that is shorter and doesn't include anything in the back. Get something cheap like a $1 sheet of felt, and cut it to match the front of the current ones.

A lot of skate comfort is trial and error.

[rsk8d]

Regarding the heel pain, it could be one of several diagnoses: achilles tendonitis, plantar fascitis, or a bone bruise. Any of these diagnoses could be caused by the padding/lift added into the skate, as the pad would change the mechanics of the ankle and angle at which it functions. In the case of a bone bruise, it would occur on the back of the heel, and would result from abnormal pressure on the bone from being in a different position in the skate. In the case of achilles tendonitis, the pain would be on the back of the heel or slightly above, and would occur because the tendon is working at a different angle than before and is overworked. In the case of plantar fascitis, you would see pain on the bottom of the heel. The padding may have changed the arch in the skate, and this is stressing the plantar fascia.

As you are doing, see an MD and/or phyical therapist, who can correctly diagnosis it. Good luck!

[momof3chicks]

Regarding the heel pain, it could be one of several diagnoses: achilles tendonitis, plantar fascitis, or a bone bruise. Any of these diagnoses could be caused by the padding/lift added into the skate, as the pad would change the mechanics of the ankle and angle at which it functions. In the case of a bone bruise, it would occur on the back of the heel, and would result from abnormal pressure on the bone from being in a different position in the skate. In the case of achilles tendonitis, the pain would be on the back of the heel or slightly above, and would occur because the tendon is working at a different angle than before and is overworked. In the case of plantar fascitis, you would see pain on the bottom of the heel. The padding may have changed the arch in the skate, and this is stressing the plantar fascia.

As you are doing, see an MD and/or phyical therapist, who can correctly diagnosis it. Good luck!

Thanks, so far she is having a bit of pain in the fat pad (like the plantar fasciatis) and near the growth plate (like Severs) but also below the ankle bone on both sides- that is the part that is perplexing the sports doc and so last night she had an MRI to be sure she doesn't have the start of a stress fracture. The other two issues don't concern him too much.

Hopefully we will get an answer today. Once I do, I will talk with her coach and the skate fitter again.

[momof3chicks]

Well, it is a minor stress fracture, and he does believe the boots are an issue since she has never had this kind of issue before.

She should be back 100% including jumping in less than 2 weeks, and should be able to do all but jumping perhaps as early as the end of this week.

[Lenny2]

A good boot fitting is critically important. We finally gave up on using other people and learned to do it ourselves, using instructions from the Harlick website (she was in Harlicks then). After being in Harlicks for many years and developing calcium deposit bumps on the inside of her arches, our daughter is now in Grafs, which has been a wonderful boot. Bumps are gone and break-in is a breeze. The boots are good all the way through triple jumps, although they probably do break down a bit quicker than some stiffer models. But, you should not exchange longevity for a good fit and the right model for your skater. She won't be skating at all if her feet, ankles, legs, back, or hips are injured from wearing the wrong boot.

[momof3chicks]

A good boot fitting is critically important. But, you should not exchange longevity for a good fit and the right model for your skater. She won't be skating at all if her feet, ankles, legs, back, or hips are injured from wearing the wrong boot.

Oh I so agree- being as she is 9 years old, I think it would be hard for her to break anything down much before she outgrows it anyway! I certainly am irritated that she is going through this and her coach and I have been unhappy about all the trouble she has been having on these.

[Tennisany1]

Well, it is a minor stress fracture, and he does believe the boots are an issue since she has never had this kind of issue before.

She should be back 100% including jumping in less than 2 weeks, and should be able to do all but jumping perhaps as early as the end of this week.

Good to hear you at least know what is causing the pain. About the boots, I don't know a lot about Jacksons, but we recently bought new boots and blades for my dd (about the same age, jumps etc as yours but a bit lighter 80ish lbs.) It is a really tough stage for boots. Like your dd mine is very very strong. She is fast with deep edges on her stroking. She also has slightly narrow feet. Trying to get boots that will last a year but not be too stiff is a real balancing act. One solution that was offered to us was to get the lighter boot and have it rebuilt in 8 months. The cost over the year is about the same as the stronger boot, but the break in period would be less. Perhaps your fitter could do this for your dd?

We actually decided to go with the stronger boot and so far so good. Dd fits GAMS well and I think the increase in stiffness between boots is less than in Jackson so it is easier to find a boot that is the right strength. I also find that I need to help her with lacing her boots for the first few skates. This allows me to make sure her foot is not slipping and it also makes sure she knows how they should feel. Sometimes with stiff boots they don't get tightened well enough because they feel so stiff. Then the foot starts to rub and the blisters start.

Good luck, I hope your dd is back on the ice soon.

[momof3chicks]

Good to hear you at least know what is causing the pain. About the boots, I don't know a lot about Jacksons, but we recently bought new boots and blades for my dd (about the same age, jumps etc as yours but a bit lighter 80ish lbs.) It is a really tough stage for boots. Like your dd mine is very very strong. She is fast with deep edges on her stroking. She also has slightly narrow feet. Trying to get boots that will last a year but not be too stiff is a real balancing act. One solution that was offered to us was to get the lighter boot and have it rebuilt in 8 months. The cost over the year is about the same as the stronger boot, but the break in period would be less. Perhaps your fitter could do this for your dd?

We actually decided to go with the stronger boot and so far so good. Dd fits GAMS well and I think the increase in stiffness between boots is less than in Jackson so it is easier to find a boot that is the right strength. I also find that I need to help her with lacing her boots for the first few skates. This allows me to make sure her foot is not slipping and it also makes sure she knows how they should feel. Sometimes with stiff boots they don't get tightened well enough because they feel so stiff. Then the foot starts to rub and the blisters start.

Good luck, I hope your dd is back on the ice soon.


Thank you, my daughter's feet are wide AND flat. I have been tying her skates for the reasons you state. She just doesn't have the finger strength. Her coach is going to call the fitter today. I thought there was something above the competitor but below the elite- I am not sure. I am glad so many people are trying to help her.

[Query]

I also find that I need to help her with lacing her boots for the first few skates. This allows me to make sure her foot is not slipping and it also makes sure she knows how they should feel. Sometimes with stiff boots they don't get tightened well enough because they feel so stiff. Then the foot starts to rub and the blisters start.

It always makes sense to try to figure out what is happening.

If it rubs somewhere and forms blisters, that means there isn't enough pressure there - which means the boot doesn't conform to the foot in those locations. If you fill space with tape or moleskin so pressure is more equal, the problem should go away. You also won't need to tie the boots so tight, because you need excess pressure to force the leather to conform to the foot, if it already conforms.

The only exception to fixing blisters by using pressure is around the sides and front of the toes, where pressure may cause foot deformities. So I figure it is best to have little or no pressure there, but to have a snug fit in the rest of the boot bottom prevent foot motion there too.

--

As to the original poster's problem: I have no medical training, but the physical properties of the stuff that bones are made of is well known. Bone is relatively weak against stretching and differential sideways or twisting forces, very strong against compression. So greater pressure on one part of the foot bottom than another could cause a fracture, because the parts of the foot that are not supported by pressure on the bottom must instead be supported by tension from above, or by direct bending of the bone. Tension and bending makes that part of the bone stretch and possibly to fracture. That is all basic physics, and doesn't need medical training to understand. (Bone can shatter on impact - but that is a little different from fracturing it, and I assume the doctor made the distinction.)

That's a long way of saying getting the fit as perfect as possible does indeed make sense. Hopefully the foot doctor can figure this all out, and modify the boot.

It is awful to have to deal with a bone fracture. Hope she can still skate.

I once fractured a foot bone by hiking, producing a "March Fracture". The hiking boots didn't fit very well. But I also used to walk in a way that created strong impacts on the foot and various bones. If your coach is made aware of the problem, and is asked to, she/he can also find ways to move that lessen the stresses on your DD's bones.

[momof3chicks]

Thanks all, the boots are going back to the fitter today. They are going to put a gel pad in the heel (for impact), move the blade a tad off center to account for her foot pronation and she is going to stop tying the top hooks (to allow greater flexibility to bend). We may end up with new boots, and though I am not thrilled, I will certainly do whatever needs to be done.

Thankfully, we caught it before it actually fractured, but Dr. said it would be if we hadn't found it ASAP. They expect her back on the ice (without jumping) in a few days, and hopefully back to jumping (with modified boots) in another week and a half or so.

[kssk8fan]

personally, I'd put her back in the competitor. Taking 9 months to break them down isn't that big of a deal. In fact, if she's a big jumper, has nice stroking abilities and uses deep edges, 9 months is fairly normal to break down a boot. We have one girl that goes through two pair a year here (she sends them off to be rebuilt also) and many elite skaters go through more than two pair a year. My daughter out grows hers before she breaks them down.

Jackson Elites, although they are a nice boot, are extremely stiff. If your child isn't able to use her foot properly on landings and edges it will cause the problems you're describing. Imagine jumping up and down in a cast placed on your foot.....that's probably what she's feeling.

I checked the Jackson website and it seems there's a new boot called the premier....that may be the step between the competitor and the elite that you were thinking of.

From everyone I've talked to about different boots, it's best to have the skater in the least stiff boot or lowest boot they can handle. They need to be able to flex the boot - hence the invention of the hinged boot.

[sk8tmum]

From everyone I've talked to about different boots, it's best to have the skater in the least stiff boot or lowest boot they can handle. They need to be able to flex the boot - hence the invention of the hinged boot.

ITA!!!!! :bow::bow::bow: It's better to break down a boot than a body anytime; you can replace a boot, you can't replace a knee or hip joint.

[momof3chicks]

ITA!!!!! :bow::bow::bow: It's better to break down a boot than a body anytime; you can replace a boot, you can't replace a knee or hip joint.

Yes, her coaches and I are really annoyed with the original fitter and the fact that he hasn't made any effort to fix this problem (or the sizing problems she started with).

I too was thinking something in between and yes I don't care if I have to buy them in 9 months- especially if they can keep her blade and NO I cannot buy her a new foot!

[Isk8NYC]

NO I cannot buy her a new foot!Touche' -- I have to ask DH to stop buying our "Princess" slipper-style shoes because she wears them without socks (phew!) and her heel tendonitis keeps resurging. She has to wear tied shoes with a back (not clogs), according to the doctor. He buys her pretty little easter shoes and she's wearing them everyday, gimping about.

[momof3chicks]

Touche' -- I have to ask DH to stop buying our "Princess" slipper-style shoes because she wears them without socks (phew!) and her heel tendonitis keeps resurging. She has to wear tied shoes with a back (not clogs), according to the doctor. He buys her pretty little easter shoes and she's wearing them everyday, gimping about.

THIS :frus: must be you!

[Query]

ITA!!!!! :bow::bow::bow: It's better to break down a boot than a body anytime; you can replace a boot, you can't replace a knee or hip joint.

Actually, it's pretty easy to replace human bodies. The only hard part is moving the brain. :lol:

[Isk8NYC]

THIS :frus: must be you!
He meant well and it's fine for one day. She just has no self-control and wants to wear the pretty shoes. Part of the problem is that neither of us look at her FEET before she gets in the van each morning. I've been making an effort to do that, but sometimes I'm too sleepy or busy. Bah.

[Lenny2]

Have to put in a good word here for the Graf F4000, if you find yourself buying new boots. Plenty strong enough for double axels and triples, but much easier on the feet and ankles. It doesn't really "hinge." It's just made of a two-piece construction, sewn together.

http://www.bestbuyfigureskating.com/shopexd.asp?id=100

[sk8tmum]

Actually, it's pretty easy to replace human bodies. The only hard part is moving the brain. :lol:

We-elll ... I have seen a few too many young skaters of late who are permanently out of the sport and with permanent damage due to hip problems and knee problems. The diagnosis is overtraining and overjumping; not enough rest periods, pushing kids to do more/better/higher without checking to see if the body is ready for it. Skating is out; so are other sports for some due to the degree of damage ... and they are 13 years of age or so. Long time to live with that ... pretty young to have a hip replacement.

(yes, I have a little soap box that I store under my desk sometimes; I know you were just joking, I just used you as an excuse to haul out my little soap box ...:halo:)

[momof3chicks]

Have to put in a good word here for the Graf F4000, if you find yourself buying new boots. Plenty strong enough for double axels and triples, but much easier on the feet and ankles. It doesn't really "hinge." It's just made of a two-piece construction, sewn together.

http://www.bestbuyfigureskating.com/shopexd.asp?id=100

Thanks!! I am going to talk to the fitter a few times and see what he thinks.