isi competition help

[falen]

Hi,
Coach wants DD to compete in an ISI competition. I know nothing about ISI. I went to Skate isi site and found some info. I must be reading it wrong, but this is what I am referring to

PRE ALPHA – DELTA SOLO

Skater performs a one-minute program routine to music that emphasizes the required test level maneuvers from Pre-Alpha through Delta. Depending on each test level requirement, specific skating skills must be performed. All skaters must pass the Pre-Alpha – Delta test to compete in this event. Skaters must include one maneuver from Freestyle 1 in their program.

http://www.skateisi.com/site/sub.cfm?content=events_national_event_descriptions

I'm really likeing this because I think she would be at Alpha and she can perform one thing from Freestyle 1 which could be arabesque, 2 foot spin, or pivot(she does not know the other things from Freestyle 1). Is this a typo? Am I reading this right?

Any help is appreciated.

[Skate@Delaware]

Before she competes at an ISI she will need to test. Her coach can test her and submit her results before the competition (at least 30 days prior). Her coach can also explain the moves as well. Like any moves, you test from the bottom up, to the appropriate level. I tested 4 levels in one night (easy to do for ISI).

Be sure to show the coach the entry form for the competition, so she works on items appropriate for your daughter and she can enter the correct level.

[falen]

She just mentioned it and was going to get back to me since she had a lesson right after, and dd has been sick so we had to leave.

I looked at the registration form and it really does not say much. Unlike the USFS registration with pages and pages of required elements and other requirements, this is only one page long with a list of events. That is why I searched online for clarification. The testing and whatnot I will leave to the coach, I'm sure she knows, of course it may have been something she thought I knew so thanks for letting me know! Does that make any sense. But I am big on being prepared, and I'd like to know what is required in the event. I hate surprises. So did I find the correct explanation list?

[Skittl1321]

ISI basic skills competitions require that you perform each element from the test level, plus the one from FS1. You can do more than one try of each element (maybe 3?) and only the best one is graded. So if there, say, forward inside 3-turns, in the program, only the best one is scored.

[Isk8NYC]

The registration form is simple because all competitors and coaches are expected to have a current ISI Handbook, which lists the test and competition requirements, and also explains the judging criteria. Many coaches have been caught off-guard by a rules change that they didn't know about, so if your skater is going to do ISI tests or competitions, you should buy a copy of the rulebook and double-check things for yourself.

You should also look for the competition entry form for the SPECIFIC competition she will be entering. The one you linked is for the ISI National events. Local competitions might offer fewer or different events. Competition directors have the option of combining levels into the new ISI Freeskate Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum levels shown at the Nationals link, but not all competitions offer every event.

I always liked the "One from the next level" feature of ISI competitions.

Here are the current TEST elements for each level:
http://www.skateisi.com/site/sub.cfm?content=testing_requirements

[falen]

Oh boy. I don't see coach until next week b/c the holidays. DD wants to know if she can do a spiral, pivot, and a 2 foot spin (because she likes them all tooooo much)

[falen]

I'm sure dd is not a member of ISI. How do we purchase a handbook? It says only members can. And members need an ISI number. I feel like I'm going in circles.

[Skittl1321]

You can join ISI here: http://www.skateisi.com/site/sub.cfm?content=membership_individual

You will need to be a member to compete (unless the competition is making weird exceptions) and will need to have your tests registered. I joined as a freestyle skater, and my coach still had to run through pre-alpha through FS3 testing before I could compete. I did them all the same day. (They require a program too, so coach just had me do the elements individually, and then string them together to music...)

Lots of people will greatly disagree with this, but I didn't buy a handbook.
My coach has one, and honestly, the only reason it's really important is to ensure your program exactly fits so your placement won't suffer. My competition placement wasn't too important to me, so I just trusted what he said.

When I took my judging test using his handbook, I did miss one question because it was outdated- but I still passed, no big deal.

[drskater]

Another good thing about ISI is that it prorates its fees, so joining now until August will only cost you 11 dollars!

If your daughter is in the first four categories, Pre-Alpha, Alpha, Beta, or Gamma, she can only do one (1) maneuver from FS 1; that is, either a pivot, or a two ft spin, or a waltz jump (in my experience no kids do the BO or BI edges) but not all three. No FS 1 move is required for any of the Tot levels. There's also much confusion about the bunny-hop. This is a Delta move and can only be performed in a Delta (or above) program but NOT in a Pre-Alpha or Beta or Gamma routine.

According to the handbook, judging criteria for Pre-Alpha through to Delta is, "Test-level maneuvers, additional FS 1 maneuver, arm and hand positions, back straight, correctness, knees bendt, free leg extended, pattern, rhythm, general overall, and duration [time with the music]."

[falen]

OK.

The rink I belong to does not have a club and is not ISI in classes but USFS. Can I just use an ISI rink name that is closest, but I only use maybe once a year?

[Skittl1321]

yep- that should be okay.

[Isk8NYC]

OK.

The rink I belong to does not have a club and is not ISI in classes but USFS. Can I just use an ISI rink name that is closest, but I only use maybe once a year?
It's a little awkward to enter a competition for a rink where no one's ever heard of you without asking first. Just mho.

Check with the skating directors - starting with your home rink, then the other rink.
Many rinks that used to have ISI programs switched to USFSA but retained their rink's ISI membership.

You can check each rink's status here: http://www.skateisi.com/site/sub.cfm?content=Directory_rinks

[falen]

The regular rink is only 1 year open, so they are only usfs. DD's coach coaches at this other ISI rink though and I am sure we'll have to take a lesson there in the summer with her when our regular rink shuts down.

[Lenny2]

Put down whatever rink you want--it doesn't matter.

Just fyi, if you haven't participated in an ISI event before, they are quite a bit different from USFS competitions. Generally, coaches judge the events, so there are always concerns about bias. The quality of the skating, especially at the low levels, can be pretty weak so sometimes it seems as if the skaters are judged on who is the cutest, or who has the prettiest dress.

[falen]

USFS isn't all that better. Our first one had only one judge that seemed qualified. The rest were moms...that I think were related to the rink

[Skittl1321]

That must be USFS basic skills- a USFS competition must have judges that have gone through the required training and certification process.

ISI is a recreational program- it believes that coaches SHOULD be the judges, and likens this to teachers having to grade their own students. They should not play favorites, but "grade" what they actually see out there on the ice on the day of the "test". ISI does have a certification process for judges- multiple choice tests online, there are different levels of tests that certify you to judge different levels of competition. The competition chair is encouraged to schedule coaches so that they don't judge their own students, but it's not always possible, and ISI knows that and still thinks it is appropriate for coaches to be judging their students. For the most part, I've seen that mean they are biased against their students, because they don't want to be accused of favoritism- of course, that's not fair either.

ISI judges also don't judge the "whole"- they are each assigned a few things to judge. For example, at a synchro competition one judge might get "block" and "line" and only judge those 2 elements, while another might get "wheel" and "duration". I once judged a competition where I did "duration" and "bunny hop". Those were the only things I judged.

[Lenny2]

USFS judges do have to go through a pretty extensive training and trial judging period, and also have to take continuing education courses. They cannot be current coaches. Perhaps there is an exception for competitions that are for Basic Skills only, but I have seen regular USFS panels at all competitions we have attended for the past ten years, down to the very lowest, tot level. The only exception I can recall is one time when, during our own club's competition, the last event of the day was a showcase event (akin to "spotlight" in ISI lingo). Most of the judges had been at the rink all day and wanted to go out to dinner. I kiddingly said that I would judge the event, so one of the judges gave me his clipboard, said, "Have at it," and left. So, I sat on that panel with four USFS judges and judged that event. BTW, I placed those skaters exactly as they ended up placing overall, so I guess I have learned a thing or two over the years!

[Isk8NYC]

Put down whatever rink you want--it doesn't matter.
If the rink is NOT an administrative member of the ISI, your entry should be rejected. In reality, your coach will get a call and your "home rink/club" will be changed.

Additionally, there are team quality points awarded for each placement. Those points go towards the overall team trophy given out to the top 3 point earning teams. Someone could challenge that award, citing the fact that this skater has no relationship with the ISI rink and asking if an error was made. The head coach, not knowing who the skater in question was, could discount her registration.

Since the OP has now added that her DD's coach also coaches at this other rink, that's the one to represent. The coach will probably take care of the introductions at the other rink. The skater's tests will need to be registered with the ISI through the other rink (extra fees, btw), so I'm sure that will establish the skater's identity. It's better to make your registration rink known up front. There's no deception at work - it's just to be polite and avoid confusion.


As for judging, never compare a USFSA standard or adult competition to an ISI or Basic Skills competition. There's really no correlation: the ISI/Basic Skills competitions aren't intended to be fierce battles to avoid elimination with strict judging standards.

In my experience, the ISI makes far more of an effort to educate judges than the USFSA Basic Skills program. They offer FREE seminars every fall that include judging lessons, and each judge is required to pass tests to be certified as well as do trial judging. Coaches are asked to recuse themselves from judging their own skaters and I only know of one situation where that wasn't followed due to there not being any other judges nearby at the start of the competition. The competition chair assigned a skater's SECONDARY coach to her event, not realizing (since it wasn't on her registration) that there would be a conflict. 95% of the time, there's no issue.

[falen]

Well I bit the bullet and joined DD in for 2 years at $25. She was interested in the holiday show at the rink too so I probably would have had to pay it anyway. She is going to ask coach to prepare a program for it already.:giveup:

[falen]

If the rink is NOT an administrative member of the ISI, your entry should be rejected. In reality, your coach will get a call and your "home rink/club" will be changed.

Additionally, there are team quality points awarded for each placement. Those points go towards the overall team trophy given out to the top 3 point earning teams. Someone could challenge that award, citing the fact that this skater has no relationship with the ISI rink and asking if an error was made. The head coach, not knowing who the skater in question was, could discount her registration.

Since the OP has now added that her DD's coach also coaches at this other rink, that's the one to represent. The coach will probably take care of the introductions at the other rink. The skater's tests will need to be registered with the ISI through the other rink (extra fees, btw), so I'm sure that will establish the skater's identity. It's better to make your registration rink known up front. There's no deception at work - it's just to be polite and avoid confusion.

.

Additionally, it is this same rink that is having the competition. I guess that is why coach was wanting her to enter.

[Isk8NYC]

Additionally, it is this same rink that is having the competition. I guess that is why coach was wanting her to enter.
Good - I hope she has fun.