2010 Olympics Mens Singles Discussion *Spoilers*

[Isk8NYC]

2/16 - Short Program
2/18 - Free Skate

[rlichtefeld]

The starting order is up:
http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2010/index.htm

Rob

[MQSeries]

Pretty good draw for all three Americans. It shouldn't hurt Evgeni to go 10th as long as he hit all his jumps.

Go Joubert !!!

[sk8ergalgal]

Can't wait to watch! Wishing every skater best of luck and hoping you skate a clean program. They and we cannot control anything else.. its all up to the judges.

[Artemis]

It shouldn't hurt Evgeni to go 10th as long as he hit all his jumps.

Well it certainly didn't hurt Shen & Zhao -- they skated first in the short!

I'm really interested to see Stephane after such a long absence. I hope his return is more impressive than Plushy's.

Wishing all the men great skates ... but in particular Go Patrick!

[Buzzz]

This Ukrainian reminds me of Evgeny for some reason. He is cute however so I hope to see more of his skating in the future.

[Buzzz]

nice opening combo for the Slovenian skater but botched 3axel.

[Buzzz]

The Frenchman nailed everything and skated bueatifully.

[Buzzz]

Fantastic performance by Plushy! I take it back, I am glad he came back! :bow:

[let`s talk]

And he got a higher score than in Turin.!!!

[MQSeries]

I have no Tv :(. I'll have to catch the video tomorrow on the nbc web site.

I love the immediate components breakdown on this site:
http://www.vancouver2010.com/olympic-figure-skating/schedule-and-results/men-short-program_fsm010201uH.html

So did Plush add any transitions before and after his jumps?

[Schmeck]

Plushenko definitely has his jumps back, but his footwork and spins were rather 'eh' for him, I thought. And then Dick Button came on and basically stated the same thing, LOL!

[AgnesNitt]

New York Times Live Mens sp blog (http://vancouver2010.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/16/live-blog-follow-the-mens-short-program/).
For those of us who don't have TV

[MQSeries]

Thanks for the link AgnesNitt.

There isn't much room for anyone to squeeze in between Plushy and Takahashi. I bet they'll be the top two at the end of the night.

It's interesting that that the judges are giving Plushy lower component scores than skaters like Takahashi and Lambiel.

[sk8ergalgal]

Go to this site and you can see exactly what lower components Plushenko got: http://www.vancouver2010.com/olympic-figure-skating/schedule-and-results/men-short-program_fsm010201uH.html

[MQSeries]

Joubert :cry:. I was afraid he might not be able to hold up because of such a shaky season so far, and it became true. Poor thing.

Chan's not my favorite because of his smart mouth. Good that he fell. Hah!.

[AgnesNitt]

Wier did okay.

He'll have to do a bradbury in the long to get on the podium.

[AgnesNitt]

And I don't get the snarky comments about Weir's costumes. Hello NYT, Lambiel looked like a doorman at a 1910 gentlemen's club.

[MQSeries]

So Lysacheck did quite well, feathers and all :). Mr. consistency strikes again.

Abott's skating is like Jeckel & Hydes. Is he the male Alisa Czisny?

I wonder why the NTY live blog hasn't updated anything since Weir's skate? Is everyone on a bathroom break or something?

[AgnesNitt]

Abbot didn't do very well. Wonder why he shines at National's then folds everywhere else?

[Buzzz]

I wonder if Lysacek's gf was in the crowd?! :lol: That was a great skate by him and all the top three guys. Chan still got a very good score for someone who did not have a clean 3 axel and made two big mistakes.

[sk8ergalgal]

Just my personal opinion here but I think that plushenko deserved the component scores he got. He didn't have the difficulty in between elements and there was barely an real expression present.

I think the fact that Stephane doesnt have any triple axels planned at all is going to hurt him more in the free skate if he only lands one quad.

Buzz: who is Evan dating these days??

[katz in boots]

Abbot didn't do very well. Wonder why he shines at National's then folds everywhere else?

Maybe he is the male equivalent of Sasha? 8-)

[Isk8NYC]

This is a strange event for me because I'm such a terrible spectator.
I rarely root against someone, but I just don't like Plushenko or Joubert.

Plushenko - bah! His footwork still looks like his radio's on a different station - as if he's skating to music only he can hear. The jumps were there, all five thousand of them. Spins were meh. The in-car interview was interesting. I made excuses for him to my kids saying that he didn't really mean to call the other skaters "enemies," he meant "competitors." However, I think I may have been wrong - he may very well see the other skaters as enemies and I don't like that attitude. It's poor sportsmanship.

Poor, poor Joubert. Mr. "you must have zee quad and eet should be scored higher" didn't have it tonight. His jumps were all over ze place! Sacre' bleu!

Loved, loved, loved Florent Amodio (France) and we were all rooting for him after the NBC announcers gave us his sad background. (Abandoned as a baby and adopted.) What can I say? We're suckers for a sob story, lol.

I was completely rooting for Stephane Lambiel and I wish he had skated better. Not that fifth place in the SP is bad or anything, but I really wanted to see him skate a clean program.

I was worried about Weir having a melt down, but that didn't really happen, whew! He skated well, but the difficulties weren't there, which is too bad. Hopefully, he can step it up in the short program. Still hate, hate, hate Weir's costumes, including the SP version. He must shave his chest to wear that peek-a-boo outfit. The tassel is just stupid. The fashion obsession hasn't done anything for his skating, unfortunately.

I had a wierd (pun intended) thought: Mel_on_Ice had said she'd love to see how he would skate in a plain black outfit.
I didn't think that would work because he uses costumes like a hand puppet, distracting everyone from his skating.
Now I wonder how he'd skate in a ScoobyDoo costume, lol!!!!!!!

When Weir skated, I realized that Ryan Bradley wasn't getting the call to substitute. Poor Ryan, I really like his skating and I think he would have done a great job at the Olympics. Hope to see him in a skating show soon.

Wasn't expecting Abbott to punk out. I wonder if he's ill - he looked GREEN during the warmup and towards the end of his program, I felt like gravity must have shifted. His arms and legs seemed to be made of lead. He's young, he can hang around for a second Olympics trip.

Dice, Dice, Baby, Dice - awesome as always. The guy is incredibly talented and I'm so glad he's back after surgery/rehab and in contention for a medal. I enjoy all of his skating programs. He looks like he's having a great time out there. I still remember his "Hip Hop Swan Lake" SP from 2007-2008: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p90Dsm-7zGE Awesome!

Patrick Chan - not doing so good. I still like him, but I think some idiot sports psychologist must have told him to pump himself up by talking big. I wish he had skated better.

Tomas Werner was in the same boat as Chan and Abbott - skaters who can perform much better than they did. Rats.

Dice and Weir must have been channelling Mr. Spock with those Vulcan sideburns, roflol.

It's interesting how the scores seem to have grouped the skaters into tiers by tens.

1-3 = More than 90 points
4-7 = More than 80 points
8-14 = More than 78 points
etc.

[Isk8NYC]

Men's Short Program Results: http://www.nbcolympics.com/figure-skating/resultsandschedules/event=FSM010000/phase=FSM010201/index.html

(Click on the "+" sign next to each name in the event to see the component scores, music, and other details.)

[RachelSk8er]

1) Evgeny--ok your 4toe3toe and your other jumps were good, I'll give you that. Spins? Kind of boring but good. But how about some skating in between, please? And shut your freaking arrogant mouth, dissign the rest of the men for not attempting quads. What, is wittle Evgeni scawed because 2 men without quads are right on his tail for the podium?

2) Evan. I freaking love him. Incredible. Hope he brings it just as strong in the long and sticks it in Evgeny's face. Holy crap his footwork is just as exciting as always.

3) Dice-K (yes I know that's not how he spells his name...that's for your Red Sox fans :)) came out fighting and deserved every point he got. Loved this program.

4) Oda--I was kind of falling asleep while he skated and don't remember much other than (I think) a good 3 axel.

5) Lambiel--Liked the program, costume not so much. Straight line step sequence was the highlight. Wish he'd do more variations of his spin position, I feel like he did that twisted sit spin with one arm up position over and over and over. Yeah, it's nice, but you're the greatest spinner in men's skating, give us something different.

6) Johnny--Glad he skated well, but overall yuck. He's boring. And that stupid tassel is distracting. And I find it funny that news reports keep pointing out that he's rooming with Tanith. And one made sure to point out that they have separate bedrooms. Um, yeah, because we're worried about Johnny Weir doing anything with Tanith. Funny. I get the media maybe trying to play it up a bit given she's Evan's ex girlfriend, but on the ice Johnny and Evan aren't even in the same league any more.

7) Chan--I was really impressed by this kid, and I like his attitude. I enjoyed his skate, not up to the level of the top contenders yet but I have no doubt he will be, he's young for a male skater. Thought he handled all the pressure pretty well given his inexperience. I hope he goes out and has the skate of his life in his long at his home Olympics.

8) Kozuka--really liked this program, it was one of the more entertaining. Another young skater not quite there yet who I think we'll see a lot more of. Maybe a Chan/Kozuka showdown in 2014.

9) Amodio--didn't see

15) Jeremy...poor Jeremy. I knew this would happen, I thought he peaked at Nationals and would struggle at the Olympics. It's a shame, his actual skating and presentation is so good. Hopefully now that pressure is off he'll go out and nail his long and at least move up to the top 10.

18) Never thought I'd see Joubert down here. Such a shame. (Love his shirt, though.)

Hot Italian guy with the overalls--I liked his program, it was something different, just lacked the content.
Guy with the white striped shirt--I fell asleep during his program.

[RachelSk8er]

Pretty good draw for all three Americans. It shouldn't hurt Evgeni to go 10th as long as he hit all his jumps.

Go Joubert !!!

Skating order only really mattered under 6.0 since skaters were being compared. It really makes no difference under IJS since each program is scored on its own merits (other than maybe a teeny bit in the PCS marks, I can see where a judge there may think "well his transitions were better than this earlier skater who I gave a 7 to so I'll give him a 7.5").

[flying~camel]

My heart aches for Jeremy! I know he wanted to skate clean so badly! I give him props for not giving up after the 2 mistakes and skating that entire program with heart!

I'm not a huge Evan fan anymore but I will admin that he did bring it! I hope he can keep it together in the LP and kick Diva-shenko's rear! I was also happy that Johnny was able to keep it together!

Overall, that was a very tough, unforgiving group of men! With all of the impressive, young up-and-comers, its looking like 2014 will be a deep men's field, too!

The LP on Thursday should be VERY interesting!

[flying~camel]

who is Evan dating these days??

IIRC, he's dating Nastia Liukin (2008 gymnastics all-around Olympic champ).

[RachelSk8er]

IIRC, he's dating Nastia Liukin (2008 gymnastics all-around Olympic champ).

A google search brought up pics of them on the red carpet at the ESPYs. Evan in a real tux (as opposed to his LP costume last year) :yum::yum: Hottie!!

[MQSeries]

Really good skate from Evan. That was the best 3A I've seen from him; It actually looked like a true axel! The feathers still looked strange to me, especially in the close up when he put his hand on his face and all I saw was a bunch of irridescent (sp?) feathers, LOL. Awww at Evan for getting all emotional in the K&C, but he still has the LP to go.

I'm shocked at Joubert being down so low. Hasn't he been on the World podium for like the past 5 Worlds straight? He usually mess up when he's forced to improvised. Poor thing. I doubt he'll hang around for Sochi.

Patrick "diarhea of the mouth" Chan. All I can say is "Hah, Hah, Hah". Don't run your mouth off ice if you can't bring it on ice.

Evgeni...I don't mind if he wins. Some might think he's arrogant, etc, but he has the goods when it comes to the jumps. The other aspects of his skating aren't as bad as some people make it out to be.

Takahashi hasn't delivered two clean performances this season. I'm not expecting him to do a clean LP on Thursday.

So only 3 men (Plushy, Lambiel, Joubert) attempted quad last night? With the scores among the top three being so close, there's a good possibility that a quadless man will win on Thursday.

[RachelSk8er]

So only 3 men (Plushy, Lambiel, Joubert) attempted quad last night? With the scores among the top three being so close, there's a good possibility that a quadless man will win on Thursday.

That's fine with me. I'm far more impressed and inspired by someone who can do a program full of intricate coreography and interesting, unique transitions into elements rather than a quad, a bunch more triples and spins, and not much worth noting in between. Like Jeremy Abbott...he didn't pull it off last night in the short, but that RBI double 3 followed by a COE into his 3 axel that he does is sweet. Especially when you're looking at a 4 1/2 minute long program, all that choreography takes just as much (if not more) energy and concentration.

[Artemis]

Patrick "diarhea of the mouth" Chan. All I can say is "Hah, Hah, Hah". Don't run your mouth off ice if you can't bring it on ice.

Woah, that's a pretty nasty thing to say. Why the vitriol? The only "running of the mouth" that I've ever heard from Chan is in response to trash-talking comments about "If you don't have a quad you're not a man" from guys like Joubert and Plushy. Did I miss something?

But regardless, I have never, ever wished a skater a bad skate, or laughed at their failures, no matter how much I dislike them personally.

I feel bad for Patrick, but it was hardly a disgraceful skate. He skated like a 19-year-old with a staggering amount of pressure on him.

As for Plushy, I've never been a fan, but he made a believer of me last night. And I even liked his costume -- first time I've been able to say that in a long time!

Fabulous results for Evan and Taka too. I can hardly wait for tomorrow night.

[znachki]

Never been a fan of Plushenko, but unless he totally tanks in the FS, he's probably going to win. I really believe that he is feeling absolutely no pressure. He's got his gold, he's well trained, and he's the only Russian in contention. (btw - did he come back just for him, or might he have been asked - and paid - since the Russians would need a top finisher at worlds to keep 3 skaters. Not sure on this - anybody know?)

Not a big fan of Lysacek either - but I'll be rooting for him.

I also hope that Weir and Abbott skate cleanly.

[MQSeries]

Woah, that's a pretty nasty thing to say. Why the vitriol? The only "running of the mouth" that I've ever heard from Chan is in response to trash-talking comments about "If you don't have a quad you're not a man" from guys like Joubert and Plushy. Did I miss something?


Chan publicly dissed Joubert's skating skills during Worlds last year and did it more than once. Uncool to disrepect your fellow competitors like that.

This week Chan has called Plushy "old", someone who's "good for his age.". Chan also talked about his own skating as if his skating skills and programs were the best out there.

I don't know what sort of inferiority complex Chan is trying to over-compensate for, but he needs to shut up and just skate. I liked him until last year's World.

6th place for Chan isn't bad and theoretically he can still medal, just not gold, which was what Canada has been hyping him up as leading up to the Games.

[MQSeries]

Never been a fan of Plushenko, but unless he totally tanks in the FS, he's probably going to win. I really believe that he is feeling absolutely no pressure. He's got his gold, he's well trained, and he's the only Russian in contention. (btw - did he come back just for him, or might he have been asked - and paid - since the Russians would need a top finisher at worlds to keep 3 skaters. Not sure on this - anybody know?)


I have to say I'm a little concern for Plushenko. In previous competitions Plushy always led the second finisher by several points, and he got pretty high component scores. Currently he's barely ahead of Evan and Takahashi. More importantly his component scores were judged lower than at least 3 other skaters. Consistent Evan just need to keep his tech scores close enough to Plushy's and then overtake him with higher component scores. It can definitely happen.

[techskater]

Plushy was judged 5th best in PCS last night and I wholeheartedly agree.

Chan has slammed Joubert more than once in the last 2 seasons (once defending Buttle and several promoting himself @ Jouby's expense after Jouby stopped being a jack@ss) and Plushy several times this week. While Plushy has not stayed above the fray (and has looked like a jack@ss as well in some of his pressers), I think he at least has the resume to back it up. One World Silver doesn't give you the right to run your mouth like that. I thought Skate Canada would have worked with him on being a good representative of the sport by now, but alas, no. At least Johnny has learned to tone it down in the press, although they love, love, loved the pink bathmat stuff. And Johnny is ahead of Chan. :)

[MQSeries]

Did anyone watch Vicktor Pfeiffer skate, especially his combination spin at the end of his Moonlight Sonata SP? He used his double-jointed shoulder in an upright catchfoot spin 8O. Unless one skates for a circus, please do not use your double-jointed capability as a feature in your skating program.

I just saw a utube of a Joubert's practice session at Vancouver. He did an absolutely gorgeous 4t-3t and 3lutz. What was up with him in the SP? I hope he can skate clean Thursday for his peace of mind.

[sk8ergalgal]

Just FYI the order of skate is up for the mens long program. Plushenko is skating last. They can be found here: http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2010/index.htm

[let`s talk]

So only 3 men (Plushy, Lambiel, Joubert) attempted quad last night? With the scores among the top three being so close, there's a good possibility that a quadless man will win on Thursday.

Quads are much more difficult things to do than transitions. North American skaters are not good at quads. That is the reason of all these talks. In fact you can't compare the difficulty of quads and transitions. Skaters who can do quads are just another tech-generation. Much higher level.

[Buzzz]

Good luck to Plushy today and all the other skaters. It would be nice to see Even and Dai to also remain on the podium. Japan has been having a pretty good olympics so far so I would not be supprised it one or more Japanese skaters end up on the podium! :D

[Schmeck]

Quads are much more difficult things to do than transitions. North American skaters are not good at quads. That is the reason of all these talks. In fact you can't compare the difficulty of quads and transitions. Skaters who can do quads are just another tech-generation. Much higher level.

Skaters who can do quads and not use up all their energy and focus on that one jump and have the mental and physical capability to maintain a 4+ minute program with the proper transitions are of a much higher level. Just because you can do a quad does not make you a higher level - you have to be able to maintain the rest of the program as well.

Oh, and I think you forgot about Timothy...

[RachelSk8er]

Quads are much more difficult things to do than transitions. North American skaters are not good at quads. That is the reason of all these talks. In fact you can't compare the difficulty of quads and transitions. Skaters who can do quads are just another tech-generation. Much higher level.

You mean to tell me that doing a step sequence full of turns on one foot (not putting the free foot down at all) covering half the ice surface and then taking off (from that same foot) after a COE for a 3axel and packing an entire 4 1/2 minute long program with similar transitions into every jump and spin is not as difficult as one jump? Have you ever skated before in your life?

[MQSeries]

Just FYI the order of skate is up for the mens long program. Plushenko is skating last. They can be found here: http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2010/index.htm


Last's good but it gotta be tough waiting around for that long after the warm-up. The good thing is that if Plushy skates clean and the judges really wanted to give him the title then they'll know how much to give him for his component scores to give him the win.

I don't mind at all if Plush wins. It'll be good for the record book.

[let`s talk]

You mean to tell me that doing a step sequence full of turns on one foot (not putting the free foot down at all) covering half the ice surface and then taking off (from that same foot) after a COE for a 3axel and packing an entire 4 1/2 minute long program with similar transitions into every jump and spin is not as difficult as one jump? Have you ever skated before in your life?

In this case if quads are not as difficult, why are they so highly rewarded and why so few skaters, expecially now, risk to jump them? Go, guys! Quads are easy! Still... nobody wants to try. Except the greaters ones.

[Isk8NYC]

I wouldn't say the "greater ones" include the quad. They're all really great skaters with unique strengths and weaknesses. The skaters who have stable quads put them into their programs, but that's to be expected.

The difference in points between an outstanding triple and a shaky quad is very small. That was Joubert's comment: quads should be worth even more points and all the real men should performing them. That's why skaters will demur from including them in their programs. Better to do an outstanding triple than a slightly underrrotated quad that gets downgraded. Many more skaters can perform a quad outside of the program than within.

Rumor has it (on NBC Olympics) that Johnny's gonna throw in a quad tonight. I hope he does and I hope he does it well. It'll make the competition more exciting and I'm sure the fans will go crazy!

[dbny]

I love Florent Amodio. He reminds me of the first time I saw Daisuke Takahashi skate; so much potential, and a perfect body type for figure skating. Felt sad for Joubert, and admired Plushenko for his strong comeback, but he's all atheleticism with just a dab of artistry. Not much to say about Abbot except that I'm not surprised, and was sad for him also, as I was for all those who wiped out in similar fashion. I've never been a fan of Lysacek, but have to admit he is steadily improving in all respects. I would have had him just below Takahashi instead of just above. The LP is the real showdown, and I have a feeling Lysacek will ace it.

[MQSeries]

http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-features/news/newsid=425920.html#going+gold+mens+preview

What would Dick Button say to Plushenko if he wins?
"Congratulations to you, you worked like a son of a gun for this," Button said. "Nice going and go have a wonderful bottle of champagne. Go home to celebrate with your wife and family, make lots of babies, and I will see you in 2014 in Sochi."


:D

[MQSeries]

For the last group of 6 skaters, 5 of them plan to do a quad. Lambiel plans to do two of them. Evan's the only one without a quad on his list of planned jumps.

Should be very interesting. So far this season only Lambiel and Plushenko have attemped and landed quads successfully. Takahashi might have attempted one in the GP. Oda and Weir plan to throw it in for the first time 8O.

Go Joubert.
Go Lysachek.
Go Plushy.

[Buzzz]

TSN channel 30 in Toronto is showing the men's FS. :)

[MQSeries]

Looks like another bad outing for Joubert :( His freeskate is ranked behind a Javier Fernandez for goodness sake. Does Brian ususally get score in the 6 range for transition? Ouch. I wonder if the judges are being extra harsh on Brian's transitions because Joe Inman's infamous letter was made public. Brian said that he wants to continue at last through 2012 and become world champion one more time. I don't know. He had plenty of opportunities to win a second world title in the past but always manage to botch something up in either the SP or LP. I think Brian's peak time has passed.

[Bailey]

Thank goodness Even Lysachuk won tonight!! It was so great to see him skate so well. What a tremendous accomplisment. Most of all, I'm proud of the judging because the right man won - despite all the hype and all the politiking that has been going on this week. Although, I must say there is no way they should have been tied for program components. Plushenko did not have the speed or choreography that Evan had. His spins were poor, his footwark occurred at the virtual standstill, and he spent so much time posing at centre ice you would think that he thought it was the medal ceremony. Overmarked again - but even better that Evan won on technical score.

Good skate for Patrick tonight - even though it may not have been perfect. ITA with David's comment - he is so young and we forget that he's really only skated one other competition where he's had the pressure to really achieve a podium finish. I sat behind his mother at nationals and she really reminded me of this - when someone asked her if he was going to retire after the Olympics, she said "Who knows, he's 19. He doesn't know what he wants - he thinks he wants to go to university." It takes time and experience to learn how to handle these pressure situations. When Jamie and David crashed and burned at their first world championship in 2000, Doug Leigh said "That is what is going to make them world champions." Maybe that is what happened for Patrick tonight. Still, the fairytale ending would have been nice...

[dbny]

EVAN!!!!

He really brought it and he really deserved the gold (and I have never been a fan). Plushenko was all hype, did not skate his best or even try to pull out all the stops, and looked like a spoiled child deprived of desert when he got his silver medal. I'm very happy for Evan, for the US, and for Daisuke Takahishi, who was very obviously pleased with his bronze, which made him the first Japanese man ever to medal in FS at the Olympics.

[Mel On Ice]

Wheee! Wish it was DiceK for silver and Johnny for bronze. Way to go Evan!

[let`s talk]

Goodbye quads.

[Schmeck]

Goodbye quads.

So what? A quad is not the do-all end-all of skating, for god's sake. The silver medalist did a quad, the bronze medalist attempted one.

[flying~camel]

I like the messages the judges sent - that the in-between skating does matter and that it isn't all about the jumps!

Also glad my boy, Jeremy, pulled up to 9th! ;)

[MQSeries]

Yeah Evan. The snake costume even looked better the second time around :). The medal looked huge around Evan's neck.

Plushy wasn't bad. His program was obviously wasn't as well put together as Evan's and his jumps were slightly off but to skate like that after 3.5 years away wasn't too shabby at all.

Very interesting that Plushy lost on the technical scores. Evan really racked it up in the GOE points.

Frank has coached 2 Olympic silver medalists, 1 bronze medalist and finally 1 gold medalist. I think he's the most decorated U.S. coaches.

[Isk8NYC]

I like the messages the judges sent - that the in-between skating does matter and that it isn't all about the jumps!That's what I think, too. It was a message to focus on Skating, not jumping. Quads add NOTHING to the programs other than risk, if you want risk, Snowboard and Skiing have aerialists.
Also glad my boy, Jeremy, pulled up to 9th! ;)Good for him. I was afraid he had peaked at Nats and I'm sorry I was right. Hope he can pull it together for next season. I missed his skate because we changed TV's from the Family Room to the Guest Room. That meant going from DirecTV to over-the-air. I didn't think about DirecTV being a REbroadcast, which puts it a few minutes behind NBC. We caught the bows at the end of his program. Hope he skated well.

ETA: Just watched it on NBC Olympics. Rough start, but he pulled it out. He tweated something half apologetic, half committed to doing better. He shouldn't beat himself up (that's the fans' job) he's in the OLYMPICS.
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=0f598519-858e-4ff2-aefb-efd46ddd44ee.html#mens+free+jeremy+abbott

Felt bad for Johnny - he was really far behind, so he didn't have a chance at the podium. He was doing great until he bobbled that sit spin, but I really wish he had done the quad. http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=5a66dee0-cf22-47bd-8220-92f6d4ba6c35.html#mens+free+johnny+weir

I really love watching Takahashi skate, especially his footwork. His arms and gestures are phenomenal! His spins aren't as perfect as they once were, but I can see him coming back to it. Did I hear correctly that this will be his last Olympics? What a shame, I hope he's not retiring entirely. http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=e1191461-90d4-4249-8930-4c953151bfea.html#mens+free+daisuke+takahashi
Side note: I didn't "get" his costume at all.

Odo is SO cool, calm, and collected - he's going to be a force to reckon with in the future. Breaks a skate lace, tests it a bit, then goes to the Ref to explain the situation. Makes it back on in record time and finishes the program without a hitch. Fantastic. Tanya Harding, eat your heart out. The footage of Odo's managing the situation should be shown to every new competitor as part of a "what to do if..." lesson. http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=6722a0fb-25b2-4999-820d-9af6eadfffbe.html#mens+free+nobunari+oda

Lambiel impressed my husband with his spins, especially the headless spin at the end. Of course, DH said "I can do that." We just laughed at him. He is just so good looking, both on and off the ice. I think they said he's going to continue to compete for a few years, but I could be wrong. I hope he does stay in. http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=35752fab-839b-41e6-90c0-b80535b46bb9.html#mens+free+stephane+lambiel

Plushenko did come across as a sore loser, especially on the podium. During the interview, he started to make excuses (I took 3 years off and bla bla bla) but then he reigned it in. In truth, his jumps weren't that great - they were tilted, he forced the landings (an achievement) - I was amazed he didn't take a spill.
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=6b0ad2a1-10c2-4468-a058-3782fd9e7643.html#mens+free+yevgeny+plushenko

Evan was awesome - just went out there and nailed everything. He is so tall and leggy, it's incredible. The Snakes have grown on me in the last few months - he looked good last night. http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=f1f95fd7-ed8f-4c80-8f51-d79a1ae3d3da.html#evan+lysacek+wins+gold

I was more thrilled for Frank Carroll. He was so cute - Evan and the choreography coach figured out/read that Evan had won, Frank's still reading the scores from the TV with his glasses on. Good for him to finally have one of his skaters get that OGM he's deserved for so long.

The scoring was incredible - Plushenko and Lysacek just outstripped everyone else to create a new top tier. NBC reported that the two of them had the same PCS score. Lysacek won because of his clean elements skating, moreso than the artistry.

[Skittl1321]

NBC reported that the two of them had the same PCS score, but the results don't show that.

Your link goes to the short program- in the long program they both recieved PCS of 82.8

Which is why I'm getting tired of the "artistry won over athleticism" bit. I don't see Evan as that artistic of a skater (he flails as much as Plushenko) and the "artistic mark" (even though that's not really what PCS is) isn't where Evan won. He won on TECHNICAL elements. It takes an athlete's stamina and control to do incredible footwork and spins- not an artists interpretation. (oddly enough in "performance" the closest to artistry of the PCS marks- Plush beat out Evan)

Evan won on the technical side of the event.

I don't think this will be the death of the quad. And I'm kind of tired of the comments about how skating has regressed. Would the quads men used to do and the triple-triples women used to do have held up under the new system? I think the progression is that they are being held to perfection- the jumps better be darn good- throwing off a quad doesn't mean anything unless it's a real one. Underrotations matter.

[Schmeck]

Yes, so happy for Frank Carroll! Think he will retire now? That would be rough for his up-and-coming skaters, I know, but still...

[BlueSkate]

I like the messages the judges sent - that the in-between skating does matter and that it isn't all about the jumps!

Were they really saying that? Evan and Evgeni had the same PCS for the free even though Evan had much better transitions. He won because the execution of his elements was better and deservedly so. I agree with you that the message is important but I'm not sure that's where the judges were going, otherwise I would have expected a lower PCS for Plushenko.

[Isk8NYC]

Your link goes to the short program- in the long program they both recieved PCS of 82.8

Which is why I'm getting tired of the "artistry won over athleticism" bit. I don't see Evan as that artistic of a skater (he flails as much as Plushenko) and the "artistic mark" (even though that's not really what PCS is) isn't where Evan won. He won on TECHNICAL elements. It takes an athlete's stamina and control to do incredible footwork and spins- not an artists interpretation. (oddly enough in "performance" the closest to artistry of the PCS marks- Plush beat out Evan)

Evan won on the technical side of the event.
That explains it - I was looking at the LP results and I guess I accidentally clicked on SP instead of Judges.
That makes more sense, thanks Skittl. I'm going to edit my prior post so I don't confuse others.

http://www.nbcolympics.com/figure-skating/resultsandschedules/event=FSM010000/phase=FSM010101/doc=analysis.html

They did give Plushenko negative/zero GOEs for a few jumps, which is what lost him the competition.
Evan had a few as well.

However, I think Evan's program should have had higher PCS scores than Plushenko's.

I guess the message isn't Artistry Rules, it's Correctness Rocks, lol.

[Isk8NYC]

Yes, so happy for Frank Carroll! Think he will retire now? That would be rough for his up-and-coming skaters, I know, but still...
I don't think he'll retire; he really loves coaching and he's got Mirai skating next week. I think that, if he really wanted to retire, he would have done so after the hip replacement surgery a few years ago. Carroll does have other coaches that he works with as well, so he might scale back a bit.

He said at the US Nats that a coach is only as good as their last skater, so Evan's just moved Frank onto a pedestal. I guess he could choose to go out at the top...

[let`s talk]

So what? A quad is not the do-all end-all of skating, for god's sake. The silver medalist did a quad, the bronze medalist attempted one.

Elvis Stojko about "the night they killed figure skating":

"Sorry, Evan Lysacek. You are a great skater and all. But that wasn`t Olympic champion material.
--
The judges` scoring was ridiculous. Because of it, the sport took the step backward. Brian Boitano did the same things, technically, in 1988. There are junior skaters who can skate that same program."

And his great point:

"In what other sport do you have to hold back in order to win?"

Contunied:

"The International Skating Union has taked the risk out of the figure skating and it makes me sick."

And about the old pain: corruption:

"The figure skating community wants to control who wins and who loses."


The great Elvis spoke.

(from sports yahoo)

[MQSeries]

It's wrong for Plushy and now evidently Elvis to discount Evan's gold simply because he didn't do a quad. If Plushy had done all his other triples well and gotten ++GOE on them then he might have squeaked out ahead, but he had scratchy landings and tilted air positions on a couple of the jumps. Skaters with quads aren't going to simply win just by landing them.

----------

Canadian soil seems to bring goodluck to American male skaters. We should have the Olympics in Canada more often :lol:.

[MQSeries]

I guess the message isn't Artistry Rules, it's Correctness Rocks, lol.

Honestly I'm not that crazy about Evan's Schez. I mean he performed it very well, and it was choreographed precisely as needed under IJS to get the points, but overall I don't think the program is that artistic (...but of course artisty is subjective ). The program certainly didn't move me. I can't even recall any oustanding choreographic moments in it that stood out like I still can for Boitano's Napolean routine.

[Skittl1321]

Honestly I'm not that crazy about Evan's Schez. I mean he performed it very well, and it was choreographed precisely as needed under IJS to get the points, but overall I don't think the program is that artistic (...but of course artisty is subjective ). The program certainly didn't move me. I can't even recall any oustanding choreographic moments in it that stood out like I still can for Boitano's Napolean routine.

Look at the protocols- as I said above, Evan's "performance" mark in PCS was LOWER than Plush.'s (Evan had higher "transitions" and "choreography", Plush higher "performance" and "skating skills". And evan's TCS was higher)

He won by playing the game and skating well- those level 4s and plus GOEs add up.

[TreSk8sAZ]

After reading Mishin's "Plushenko wuz robbed" comments here (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/figure_skating/news?slug=ro-plushenko021810&prov=yhoo&type=lgns), I had to comment. Okay, I get that Plushenko skated well and had one quad jump. However, one jump does not a program make.

Plushenko knew the rule of IJS coming into this competition. Yet he still chose to front-load his program and get most of his jumps out of the way early. If he had put even one or two more jumps in the bonus, he may well have overtaken Evan. There are what, 8 jumping passes in a men's long? So, space some of them out, play the game, and you win. Also, if you land cleanly you win. The 3A and 3Lz weren't perfect by any means.

Evan did play by the rules. He had a very, very clean program with fewer bobbles on jumps. He also had (if I remember right) higher levels on almost all of his footwork and spins, which would give him higher technical marks.

It was a close competition, but skating a clean program was rewarded, which is exactly how it should be at the Olympics. You can't come out and make mistakes and expect a competition to be handed to you. I don't see any conspiracy or how Plushenko was "robbed"

[Isk8NYC]

I just found the judges scores links for the Men's Freeskate on the ISU site. http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2010/owg10_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Interesting - Evan got a short edge notation on his 3F+2T+2Lo jump, resulting in a -.40 GOE as well as a -.56 GOE on his 3A+2T.

His sit spin was a level 3, not 4. Plushenko did the same spin, but received more GOE points. Evan outskated him in the circular footwork sequence; both he and Dice reached level 4, the only two skaters.

[Schmeck]

Well, Elvis just lost a fan here then. You know, maybe if he had spent more time working on something other than his quads and 'macho-ness' he'd have an Oly gold medal too. (Yes, I know he was injured for one Olympics, etc - but he should put his money where his mouth is, little twerp)

[Isk8NYC]

I just checked wikipedia because I didn't think Elvis was a gold medalist. I'm right.

Sounds like someone's auditioning for the Russian Ice ballet...

[Skittl1321]

I just found the judges scores links for the Men's Freeskate on the ISU site. http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2010/owg10_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Interesting - Evan got a short edge notation on his 3F+2T+2Lo jump, resulting in a -.40 GOE as well as a -.56 GOE on his 3A+2T.

His sit spin was a level 3, not 4. Plushenko did the same spin, but received more GOE points. Evan outskated him in the circular footwork sequence; both he and Dice reached level 4, the only two skaters.


SlSt is the sit spin, right? That was the level 3 for Evan. He has 1 level 3 and 4 level 4s.
He got 4s on CiSt4, FSSp4, FCSSp4, and CCoSp4. Can someone translate those into words?


Plushenko has 3 level 3s and only 2 level 4s.

[AgnesNitt]

I liked Johnny Weir's program. That spin was a heart breaker. You could just see how shocked he was. Scott Hamilton said he must have hit a rut. Did anyone see a statement from him what happened?

And I like his costumes. The one for the SP was outre', but the FS was just so classy.

What were the flowers on his head for? Gifts from fans?

[Schmeck]

I just checked wikipedia because I didn't think Elvis was a gold medalist. I'm right.

Sounds like someone's auditioning for the Russian Ice ballet...

Nope, the guy had very little grace and tried to impress us all with his "karate tough guy on ice" - he'd get credit for big jumps, and some cool spins, but the inbetweens always seemed painfully forced. No Oly gold for him - but he was severely injured one year. It was amazing that he could even skate a lap around the rink.

He did have a tendency to pop his 3axel - gee, the quadguy should be able to do 3axel in his sleep, right? I mean, every real male skater should have a solid 3axel combo in his program! Some guys even do it after the halfway mark...

[icedancer2]

SlSt is the sit spin, right? That was the level 3 for Evan. He has 1 level 3 and 4 level 4s.
He got 4s on CiSt4, FSSp4, FCSSp4, and CCoSp4. Can someone translate those into words?


Plushenko has 3 level 3s and only 2 level 4s.

Okay, I'll bite: CiSt4 = Circular step-sequence level 4

FSSp4 = Flying Sit Spin Level 4

CCoSp4 = Camel combination spin level 4

I think this is right - CCoSp4 might also mean Change Combination spin Level 4

Anyone?

[elanboy]

I also feel that the right skater won last night. Although it was very close I felt that overall Evan skated a better program last night, despite the lack of a quad. If Evgeni had managed to execute and land his jumps better I might have given him the gold instead, but clearly Evan outskated him last night.

One more thing that no one is mentioning or talking about. Evgeni played it safe slightly as well last night. He was supposed to have opened with his quad toe, triple toe, double loop combo, but he left off the loop at the end. IIRC, that double loop jump is worth 2.0 points (someone correct me if I am wrong). Had he included it, he would have won the competition despite his other scratchy landings and lacking areas. He lost by 1.31 points last night...

[That Don Guy]

Okay, I'll bite: CiSt4 = Circular step-sequence level 4

FSSp4 = Flying Sit Spin Level 4

CCoSp4 = Camel combination spin level 4

I think this is right - CCoSp4 might also mean Change Combination spin Level 4

Anyone?
Taken directly from the ISU Code of Points:

USp# = Upright Spin Level # (1-4)
LSp# = Layback Spin
CSp# = Camel Spin
SSp# = Sit Spin
An "F" before any of those is a Flying spin (e.g. FSSp4 = Flying Sit Spin level 4)
A "C" before any of those is a Change Foot ("one change of foot and no change of position - e.g. CCSp4 = Change Foot Camel Spin level 4)
You can have both a C and F (Lysacek had an FCSSp4 in his free skate)
CoSp# = Spin Combination Level #
CCoSp# = Change Foot Spin Combination Level #

SlSt# = Straight Line Step Sequence Level #
CiSt# = Circular Step Sequence Level #
SeSt# = Serpentine Step Sequence Level #
SpSq# = Spiral Sequence Level #

[That Don Guy]

For whatever reason, the ISU changed the way it reports the judges' individual scores this season; in the past, Judge #1 for the first skater in a routine was Judge #1 for every other skater in that routine as well (although not necessarily the same person as Judge #1 in the judges' list), but now, the judges are scrambled from one skater to the next.

This makes it impossible to determine how many of the 1296 combinations of judges (36 in the SP, and for each one, 36 in the FS) would have ranked the skaters in a particular way. However, it is possible to come close by starting with the actual SP scores and then compare each possible combination of judges as if they selected a different set of seven "counting" judges for each skater in the FS.

Based on this assumption, so far I got the following: in a head-to-head comparison of Lysacek and Plushenko, Lysacek finishes ahead of Petrenko 702 out of 1296 times, or 54.2% of the time.

[flying~camel]

I liked Johnny Weir's program. That spin was a heart breaker. You could just see how shocked he was. Scott Hamilton said he must have hit a rut. Did anyone see a statement from him what happened?

I read an article today that quoted him as saying that he spun into a hole. :(

[That Don Guy]

Based on this assumption, so far I got the following: in a head-to-head comparison of Lysacek and Plushenko, Lysacek finishes ahead of Petrenko 702 out of 1296 times, or 54.2% of the time.
Here is some more number crunching of the top six:

Highest and Lowest Possible Scores (based on their actual SP value and the 36 possible FS values)
Lysacek - 255.21 - 260.19
Plushenko - 253.18 - 262.8
Takahashi - 244.71 - 251.43
Lambiel - 244.90 - 250.52
Chan - 239.92 - 245.12
Weir - 238.13 - 242.23

Notice that no one besides Lysacek or Plushenko could win a gold or silver.
For bronze, Takahashi beats Lambiel 669 out of 1296, or 51.6%
Both Lambiel and Takahaski beat Chan 1295 times out of 1296, and beat Weir all 1296 times
Chan beats Weir for fifth 1116 out of 1296, or 86%

(For those of you scoring at home and looking at the judging sheet, here is the list of the judges excluded for each skater in the Free Skate:
Lysacek - 1 and 3
Plushenko - 1 and 7
Takahashi - 3 and 7
Lambiel - 1 and 6
Chan - 3 and 6
Weir - 4 and 9
Remember, the judges change numbers from one skater to the next; it is the same two judges excluded for each skater.)

[AgnesNitt]

Lysacek finishes ahead of Petrenko 702 out of 1296 times, or 54.2% of the time.

Petrenko? :o I can tell you're over 50. :lol:

[let`s talk]

Honestly I'm not that crazy about Evan's Schez. I mean he performed it very well, and it was choreographed precisely as needed under IJS to get the points, but overall I don't think the program is that artistic (...but of course artisty is subjective ). The program certainly didn't move me. I can't even recall any oustanding choreographic moments in it that stood out like I still can for Boitano's Napolean routine.

He cheats on axel on take off. It is underrotated. Like Sarah's jumps.

Evan:

"I have for several years worked on the quads. Not doing a quad was definitely a relief." (from vancouver2010 website)

[coppertop1]

ITA with everyone who said Evan deserved to win, and that's why I like this new system, it generally rewards quality over quantity, under the old system quads were a must and Plushenko would have won.

Yes, Plushenko was good but his program was not gold medal material, he was scratchy on his landings, and he didn't have much in terms of in between. Lysacek's program was better constructed and he skated cleaner, even without he quad. Plain and simple. Time to put a lid on the quad talk, I know Plushenko and Joubert disagree but that's how the sport goes, and I'm not surprised Stojko has issues with the results, he has never felt the system rewards quads enough. Frankly, I don't think the quad makes you a better skater, and it shouldn't be mandatory. Quads have lost their novelty, now they're pretty common and really, I think a well-constructed program and quality is more important. Plushenko has already won Olympic Gold, now it's Lysacek's turn.

Patrick Chan was again pretty good, but not his best. Yes, he is young, this is his first Olympics it's easy to forget because he's so good, and he has high expectations of himself, often higher than ours. \

So what cost Weir in the LP? The spin?

[AgnesNitt]

So what cost Weir in the LP? The spin?

From what I read, he cut out footwork.

[coppertop1]

From what I read, he cut out footwork.

Aww, he does tend to lose out on mistakes like that. Too bad, he should be happy with how he skated overall, he's been more consistent this year

[That Don Guy]

Petrenko? :o I can tell you're over 50. :lol:
Not quite, but closer that I would like.

Wasn't Petrenko the Technical Specialist at the first men's event that used the COP? (Or was that Urmanov?)

[MQSeries]

He [Evan] cheats on axel on take off. It is underrotated. Like Sarah's jumps.



How so? Please explain. Evan's 3A in his SP was the cleanest one I've seen from him. The ones in the LP weren't quite as crisp but I have to watch them again.

[techskater]

SlSt is the sit spin, right? That was the level 3 for Evan. He has 1 level 3 and 4 level 4s.
He got 4s on CiSt4, FSSp4, FCSSp4, and CCoSp4. Can someone translate those into words?


Plushenko has 3 level 3s and only 2 level 4s.

SlSt3 is the level 3 straight line step sequence. CiStp4 is the level 4 circular steps, FSSp4 - flying sit spin level 3, FCSSp3 is the flying change sit level 4 and CCoSp4 is the change combo spin level 4. The level 4 step sequence is 0.5 base value higher over the level 3 version of same plus a level 3 only gets 1/2 the GOE of the level 4

[techskater]

He cheats on axel on take off. It is underrotated. Like Sarah's jumps.

It is NOT a cheat to skid an Axel take off and unless the skater clearly takes off backward on the Axel in real time, it is NOT a cheated takeoff. Evan clearly lands backwards, so NOT like Sarah's jumps which were ~ 1/4 cheated on the landing of the jump. Quit crying, get over yourself and quit using people with sour grapes (::cough, cough, ELVIS, cough, cough::) to try and make your "point"

[let`s talk]

It is NOT a cheat to skid an Axel take off
Evan's axels were downgraded more than once in various competitions. It all depends on when, where and what competition is held.

[AgnesNitt]

Anybody ready for Worlds?

[coppertop1]

As for Stojko, hasn't he heard "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" his comments were pretty harsh and out of line. Seriously. It's not about jumps. I know he said they should ask skaters what the Quad is worth. So it should be worth like 15 on its own? That's ridiculous. And just look at the past few world Champions: Jeff Buttle (2008) and Lysacek from last year, both won with strong, good quality programs without the quad. They both tried it but felt they were better without it. Plushenko expected this to be the Plushenko Show and now it's ticked off that it wasn't. Well, such is sport.

[Schmeck]

Evan's axels were downgraded more than once in various competitions. It all depends on when, where and what competition is held.

Exactly - and Plushenko did not have the skate/program for this competition. If he had been able to get a positive GOE for his first 3 axel, and had done his 3 axel combo after the half-way mark, he probably would have won. He chose to skate his program loaded up front with his biggest jumps, chose to use level 3 spins and footwork.

[coppertop1]

Exactly - and Plushenko did not have the skate/program for this competition. If he had been able to get a positive GOE for his first 3 axel, and had done his 3 axel combo after the half-way mark, he probably would have won. He chose to skate his program loaded up front with his biggest jumps, chose to use level 3 spins and footwork.

Plushenko basically rested on his laurels: The quad triple. He didn't do any combinations late to get him extra marks and and I don't think he did triple/triple combos. He thought he had it with the quad, so his other elements were at lower levels, and it showed. TBH, It's nice that someone other than Plushenko won, he's already won, and he had this attitude that it was his, the Evgeny Plushenko Show. So it's good that the judging reflected the skating.

[MQSeries]

The biggest help for Evan's career has been that he didn't win every major competitions that he entered. He had his fair share of wins and losses. The losses made Evan and Frank work that much harder to figure out how he could improve for his next competition.

The judges didn't do Plushy any favor by throwing high marks at him and letting him win by huge margins at all the competitions he entered leading up to Vancouver. It gave him a false confidence that he was unbeatable, and team Plushenko didn't see any reason to alter their strategy coming into the Olympics. Unfortunately for him, the Olympic judges did a switcheroo and decided not to be so generous with Plushenko's components scores in the SP.

[coppertop1]

That's a good point. And really, it's nice to see that's it's not quad, quad, quad, who will and one, who will do a quad combo etc, anymore. At first it was exciting but now it is back to good skating and clean jumps over quads. Plushenko needs to take his loss and swallow it, and silver isn't even a loss!

[let`s talk]

Exactly - and Plushenko did not have the skate/program for this competition. If he had been able to get a positive GOE for his first 3 axel, and had done his 3 axel combo after the half-way mark, he probably would have won. He chose to skate his program loaded up front with his biggest jumps, chose to use level 3 spins and footwork.

It is not about Evan`s second axel.

[Isk8NYC]

Did Plushenko and Lysacek ever skate against each other during the Grand Prix events earlier in the season?

[MQSeries]

No, Evan and Plushy didn't meet each other during the GP season leading up to Vancouver. But with the high marks the judges were throwing at Plushy during his GP season, he would have completely skated all over Evan. I think the publicity over Joe Inman's email to the judges that highlighted Plushy's own public admission that he didn't have transistions really forcred the judges to be more critical at the Olympics.

[coppertop1]

I don't think so. Again, another tactical error skating in only Cup of Russia and Us nationals and Europeans, he never faced his competitors

[Isk8NYC]

That's what I thought: they never faced off before.

I guess it's my background in swimming, but I expected the competitors to check each other out beforehand and plan their programs according to what the others were planning.

I remember a few grammar-school swim coaches who used to go to other teams' meets and record their best swimmers/times so they could figure out the lineup to use against those two teams. This was a GRAMMAR school league, for crying out loud. Talk about being overly competitive, but I would assume this happens at the elite levels of skating.

I'll bet the Russian Olympic and Skating Committees are going to hunker down with an IJS manual and start planning NOW for Sochi. There will be no excuses or whining from them in 2014. I wonder if they'll try to draft our IJS gurus to help them?

[Schmeck]

It is not about Evan`s second axel.

I guess English is not your first language? Not trying to sound snarky about this, but I was talking about what Plushenko did wrong, not Lysacek. Plushenko had the skills to win, he just did a front-loaded (with two wonky jumps) lower level program than Lysacek did.

Lysacek won fair and square, he got dinged for mistakes he made too, but he was smart enough to hold off on the second axel until the half way mark (got a -GOE though), and had 5 jumping passes after the halfway compared to Plushenko's 3. Lysacek also had 4 out of 5 elements called level 4, while Plushenko only had 2. That hurts when the total difference was less than two points.

I agree - the Russians will study, study, study, and won't make the same mistake again!

[coppertop1]

That's what I thought: they never faced off before.

I guess it's my background in swimming, but I expected the competitors to check each other out beforehand and plan their programs according to what the others were planning.

I remember a few grammar-school swim coaches who used to go to other teams' meets and record their best swimmers/times so they could figure out the lineup to use against those two teams. This was a GRAMMAR school league, for crying out loud. Talk about being overly competitive, but I would assume this happens at the elite levels of skating.

I'll bet the Russian Olympic and Skating Committees are going to hunker down with an IJS manual and start planning NOW for Sochi. There will be no excuses or whining from them in 2014. I wonder if they'll try to draft our IJS gurus to help them?

I think skating it's the same, to get mileage and a feel for competitors. Plushenko probably thought he didn't need to, since he clearly seemed to think the gold was his. Don't count your medals before they're won

[rlichtefeld]

A great reply to the Elvis article:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/2010wintergames/sock+Elvis/2593694/story.html

Rob

[NDsk8]

Go to this site and you can see exactly what lower components Plushenko got: http://www.vancouver2010.com/olympic-figure-skating/schedule-and-results/men-short-program_fsm010201uH.html
You know until I saw this, I really thought Pleshenko had no grounds for all the whining. But as I look at it, let's say someone like Lambiel, who has no triple axle went out and skated a whole program of 10 pt combos & it added up to more than someone who did a triple axle or maybe a quad. Let's say the rest of the program was equal. Would that be right? It has me scratching my head now.

[rlichtefeld]

You know until I saw this, I really thought Pleshenko had no grounds for all the whining. But as I look at it, let's say someone like Lambiel, who has no triple axle went out and skated a whole program of 10 pt combos & it added up to more than someone who did a triple axle or maybe a quad. Let's say the rest of the program was equal. Would that be right? It has me scratching my head now.

Except that with the Zayak rule (which states that a skater may not perform a jump more than twice, and for it to be given full credit on both occasions, one of the two must be incorporated into a combination or sequence) you can't go out and do the the same combo over and over. And, there aren't that many 10pt combos.

Rob

[MQSeries]

Plushenko probably thought he didn't need to, since he clearly seemed to think the gold was his. Don't count your medals before they're won

The judges have to take a lot of the blame for this. If they had judged Plushy's programs correctly throught the GP season then he and Mishin would've perhaps analyzed what they need to work on for Vancouver. But the judges were giving Plushy crazy scores, putting him at least 10+ points ahead of the second place finisher in every competition that he entered. That was why Plushy publicly said it didn't matter that his programs didn't have transitions; He was getting high scores anyway. I can hardly blame him for being overconfident going into the Games. It's somewhat cruel for the judges to suddenly decided to reign in their generosity at the games. Be consistent!

[coppertop1]

Blame the judges? , it's a skater that's responsible for their attitude, Plushenko has always been a bit cocky, and so that's why my sympathy is limited. Maybe you can clarify a bit?

Good article about Stojko, well some of his programs I enjoyed, they were never entertaining, though he could perform in shows, still his comments were way out of line and uncalled for.

[Schmeck]

I'll go back and check, but did Plushenko skate against anyone in the GP who scored within 10 points of him at the Olympics?

[MQSeries]

Rostelecom Cup
---------------
SP LP TOTAL
1. Plushy 82.25 158.40 240.65
2. Kozuka 75.50 139.63 215.13
3. Borodulin 72.07 129.48 201.55
4. Weir 75.57 125.98 198.55


European
--------
1. Plushy 255.39
2. Lambiel 238.54
3. Joubert 236.45
4. Brezina 224.74

It would've been interesting and good for Plushy if he had competed in the GPF.

[MQSeries]

Blame the judges? , it's a skater that's responsible for their attitude, Plushenko has always been a bit cocky, and so that's why my sympathy is limited. Maybe you can clarify a bit?



I'm saying that I can totally understand why Plushy was so confident that he would win if he landed the quad and stayed on his feet based on the scores he got from the judges coming into Vancouver.

[Artemis]

A great reply to the Elvis article:
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/2010wintergames/sock+Elvis/2593694/story.html

That is a great article, Rob, thanks for posting. It's pretty much how I feel: that a well-executed quad is exciting to watch, but it's not the reason I'm a skating fan.

[MQSeries]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/19/AR2010021903687.html?sid=ST2010021905719


Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said Plushenko's finish "was worth a gold medal" and Plushenko's wife called upon the Russian government to "defend our sportsmen and defend their honor."





when Plushenko skated out for the medal ceremony, he shook the hand of bronze medalist Daisuke Takahashi of Japan, then hopped onto the podium -- in the gold medal winner's position. He then walked down to the silver level. The crowd let out a collective "oooooooo," and the camera focused in on Plushenko's face. He was not abashed. He was sending a message.


For real???? Ugh. Plushkeno needs to go back into retirement. The man's clearly a legend in his own mind.

[Isk8NYC]

I think the Russian and French federations should move to introduce new standalone jump and spin medal events for figure skating.

[MQSeries]

http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-features/news/newsid=428682.html


French skating chief Didier Gailhaguet has slammed former world champion Brian Joubertfor his refusal to train abroad alongside elite athletes like South Korean star Kim Yu-Na.

"He has not behaved like a top level athlete, already by not wanting to travel abroad from time to time, by not working enough and thirdly not competing in enough events," said Gailhaguet.

"This morning I told him 'we're not continuing like this. We offered that you work for six or eight months with Brian Orser, coach of Kim Yu-Na. You refused'."

"From now on he needs to work better with the federation rather that trying to prove to the world that he knows best all the time.

"It's a late crisis of adolescence."


I agree with this, but is it too late for the handsome and charismatic Joubert? In some ways I think his time has passed.

[Nicki]

Plushkeno needs to go back into retirement. The man's clearly a legend in his own mind.

Just read an article on Yahoo, that said that Plushenko has declared himself the Platnum medalist of the Vancouver Olympics, and has had a platnum medal designed for himself to reflect that.:roll:

[Isk8NYC]

That's taking "poor loser" to a whole new level. Hey - that's what the medal must be for: Whiner of the Year.

[coppertop1]

I'm saying that I can totally understand why Plushy was so confident that he would win if he landed the quad and stayed on his feet based on the scores he got from the judges coming into Vancouver.

Ok. I think more than anything, his problem was his attitude, whatever the judges gave him, and he just needs to let it go, take his defeat and return to retirement and stop complaining, it's getting tiresome.

[AgnesNitt]

That's taking "poor loser" to a whole new level. Hey - that's what the medal must be for: Whiner of the Year.

Sorry, but even as a long time Johnny Weir fan, I have to say"Whiner"="Johnny Weir". Remember last year's nationals and his sulky demand to go on the worlds team? Sometimes I wish his mom would give him a good talking to about sportsmanship. Not a fan of Lysacek's skating-stiff, unimaginative, workmanlike--but I've never read a nasty comment from him about JW. Abbot is just weird...it's like all the adrenalin goes to his head and turns him into a 10 year old.

[Isk8NYC]

Yes, Johnny used to be the WOTY title holder, but he didn't get a medal! ROFLOL! :lol:

All Hail Plushenko, Platinum Whiner! :bow: (Is it "Whinging" in the UK?)


I saw an after-LP interview with Lysacek where Bob Costa tried to get a reaction out of Evan by asking him to respond to the nasty stuff Plushenko was saying. Evan handled it very diplomatically and didn't let it escalate.

Perhaps there should be a "Good Sport" award.

[kayskate]

Just read an article on Yahoo, that said that Plushenko has declared himself the Platnum medalist of the Vancouver Olympics, and has had a platnum medal designed for himself to reflect that.:roll:

Is this for real? Will someone post a link? I can hardly believe anyone would do such a thing and go public about it. How embarrassing.

Kay

[Isk8NYC]

Is this for real? Will someone post a link? I can hardly believe anyone would do such a thing and go public about it. How embarrassing. I remember reading an article that said the skating federation minted the medal and he was very pleased by it, but I can't find it now. Maybe it was a second-hand report on FSU.


When Plushenko walked into the RTR studio in Vancouver, host Alexei Popov presented him with a symbolic medal.
“You already have one gold and one silver so here’s a platinum medal for you,” Popov told the skater. “You are the real champion.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/figure_skating/news;_ylt=AkeuBZNcdhe_J8Bp7F9vEjhotLV_?slug=reu-figure_skatingplushenkoreaction&prov=reuters&type=lgns

His webmaster put the "Platinum" medal on his official website, too: http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/blog/fourth_place_medal/post/In-Plushenko-s-mind-and-website-he-s-the-plat?urn=oly,221408

It was probably a joke that got out of hand, like his stepping onto the 1st Place podium spot.
When the backlash came out, his Agent quickly started distancing Plushenko from the Platinum Medal:
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/figure_skating/news?slug=capress-oly_fig_plushenkos_platinum-2437446&prov=capress&type=lgns

He's still the whiner of the year in my opinion, though.


OOOoooOOO: Yahoo! has a good "Figure Skating" news page: http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/figure_skating;_ylt=AgXpb5Mw57rCn5nDn38e0CFwg7l_

[let`s talk]

I guess English is not your first language? Not trying to sound snarky about this, but I was talking about what Plushenko did wrong, not Lysacek. Plushenko had the skills to win, he just did a front-loaded (with two wonky jumps) lower level program than Lysacek did.

Lysacek won fair and square, he got dinged for mistakes he made too, but he was smart enough to hold off on the second axel until the half way mark (got a -GOE though), and had 5 jumping passes after the halfway compared to Plushenko's 3. Lysacek also had 4 out of 5 elements called level 4, while Plushenko only had 2. That hurts when the total difference was less than two points.

I agree - the Russians will study, study, study, and won't make the same mistake again!

I am sure English is well taught in your school if you didn`t get my drift. I noticed that you were speaking about Plush but my post was about Evan`s axel. It means your reply was not ontopic and I told you about that.

I am afraid the only thing that Russian boys studied after this Olympics is that FS is not men`s sport anymore, with its women`s or junior jumps. They will choose to be engaged in other sports: challenging, competitive, risky and will choose it manly.

[Schmeck]

I am sure English is well taught in your school if you didn`t get my drift. I noticed that you were speaking about Plush but my post was about Evan`s axel. It means your reply was not ontopic and I told you about that.

I am afraid the only thing that Russian boys studied after this Olympics is that FS is not men`s sport anymore, with its women`s or junior jumps. They will choose to be engaged in other sports: challenging, competitive, risky and will choose it manly.

My response that you mistook was to this part of what I quoted from your post: It all depends on when, where and what competition is held. That's where the confusion is coming from. Lysacek skated and won this competition. Plushenko did not. Then I listed the reasons. Does that help?

The second paragraph above gave me a good chuckle, thanks!

[Isk8NYC]

I hope the Gay Games are online this year - I can't wait to see the Plushenko parodies, lol.

[dbny]

I am afraid the only thing that Russian boys studied after this Olympics is that FS is not men`s sport anymore, with its women`s or junior jumps. They will choose to be engaged in other sports: challenging, competitive, risky and will choose it manly.

You sound a little insecure to me :twisted:.

[bems]

And after this, forgotten

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/figure_skating/news?slug=es-thoughts021810&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[Isk8NYC]

What a pathetic attempt to get attention. :roll: Yahoo! hired him and Sasha to do a live chat Tuesday night. http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/blog/fourth_place_medal/post/Sasha-Cohen-and-Elvis-Stojko-talk-skating-tonigh?urn=oly,223229

Plushenko says maybe he'll do a "double quad" in Russia four years from now. Gee, planning ahead and counting points, what an idea! Sounds like Elvis might be on his team, too.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61J2T720100220

[Isk8NYC]

I enjoyed this rebuttle tremendously.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/2010wintergames/sock+Elvis/2593694/story.html

[RachelSk8er]

Plushenko says maybe he'll do a "double quad" in Russia four years from now. Gee, planning ahead and counting points, what an idea! Sounds like Elvis might be on his team, too.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61J2T720100220

Riiight. He'll be lucky if his hips and knees last that long from doing all these quads.

[Mel On Ice]

Even if he's isn't competing in Sochi as a skater, Plushenko will be competing for "lookitme, LOOK AT ME!" points. Maybe he can trot out his platinum at an anchor desk and whine how none of the '14 athletes are as spectacular as he.

[Isk8NYC]

He and Elllllvis can compete together for the "Legend in his Own Mind" event.

I think Johnny's dropping out of the race. He gave an interview where he refused to be baited. I was very impressed by that self-control. (If only we could get him to let go of the outer appearances and focus on his inner skater.)

[AgnesNitt]

When I read the Plushenko versus Lysacek, and Joubert versus anyone who can't land a quad news, I'm reminded of the Janet Lynn vs Trixie Schuba brouhaha back at Sapporo. Lynn said "Trixie won fair and square, she played by the rules." Lysacek played by the rules too. Plushenko and his coach were lazy.

[coppertop1]

When I read the Plushenko versus Lysacek, and Joubert versus anyone who can't land a quad news, I'm reminded of the Janet Lynn vs Trixie Schuba brouhaha back at Sapporo. Lynn said "Trixie won fair and square, she played by the rules." Lysacek played by the rules too. Plushenko and his coach were lazy.

Good quote and very true. Lysacek knew the system and used it Plushenko relied on one element, and is ticked off because it didn't get him the gold.

I'd love to know what Yagudin is saying about Plushenko's attitude, knowing their rivalry

[let`s talk]

Even if he's isn't competing in Sochi as a skater, Plushenko will be competing for "lookitme, LOOK AT ME!" points. Maybe he can trot out his platinum at an anchor desk and whine how none of the '14 athletes are as spectacular as he.

LOOK AT ME or ME ON THE ICE, not a big difference.

[let`s talk]

You sound a little insecure to me :twisted:.

We all can have opinions.

[dbny]

LOOK AT ME or ME ON THE ICE, not a big difference.

Don't get your point at all. ?????

[MQSeries]

Plushenko's Gala performance and program were wonderful. The standing O was deserved. If he had skated like that in the LP then maybe he would've won.

[Schmeck]

I only caught part of Plushenko's exhibition, and that was all flapping arms and fetal position on the ice? :?? Hopefully NBC will have the gala available online.

[icedancer2]

Well, they only showed 6 skaters/teams - no pairs - Plushenko and Evan, Joannie and Yuna, Merle and Charlie, Tessa and Scott - it was all chopped up - wish they would have shown it in its entirety!

[MQSeries]

Go to the msnbc.com Olympic site. If you don't see a skater in the highlighted video section then try doing a search on his/her name. I was suprised that doing a search on KVP brought up both his SP and LP. Most of the gala performances put me to sleep.

Speaking of KVP, it's kind of sad to see that he has not improved on any aspect of his skating since I first saw him live at D.C. Worlds in '03. In fact, his skating has regressed. I remember how thrilling it was to see him pull of these fantastic 3-3-3s in the practice sessions in 03.

Plushenko really doesn't flap his arms any more than Evan does. The audience isn't going to give him a standing-O if all he did during the gala performance was flapped his arms.

[Isk8NYC]

Not to say I like Evan's flapping either, but at least this year's LP flapping was different from his exhibition flapping, which was his LP flapping and abridged routine from last year. Regrettably, that is the way that sequence was choreographed. I liked his reason for performing it - he called that routine "the date that brought him to the Prom." Sentimental wins with me, but I would have liked to see something new - he performed that during the US Nats gala.

I only caught part of Plushenko's exhibition, and that was all flapping arms and fetal position on the ice? :?? Hopefully NBC will have the gala available online.

ITA about the flailing arms - they were completely out of place with this music. Personally, I thought the music was boring - now I know why the ISU doesn't allow vocals during singles/pairs. He blew a few jumps, including his circus trick The Quad. Once again, Plushy's footwork looked like he was skating to another piece of music than the one I was hearing. Has anyone seen him skate to that music before the Gala? I have a feeling that Plushy just recycled footwork and program components from another routine. It all looks like the same and I'm really kind of tired of it.

The fetal position on the ice was just wierd.

[Schmeck]

I watched Plushenko's complete performance - still not impressed. I was expecting more interaction with the audience, and once again he did a program front-loaded with jumps, a messy attempt at a flying spin, and footwork not related to the tempo of the music. Maybe he has a hard time hearing/focusing on the music while skating?

Lysacek's gala was just 'eh' too - and the velour suit creeps me out! Reminds me of those baby tux-pajama-onesie outfits.

Now I'm feeling jaded about the whole lot of them - I didn't even enjoy Kim's performance. I'm off to watch the rest, hoping they impress me more!

[let`s talk]

Plushenko's Gala performance and program were wonderful. The standing O was deserved. If he had skated like that in the LP then maybe he would've won.

Originally he planned to show another program, a cheerful one. But after all these comical talks about this and that, he and his team changed the plan and made a new program, right in Vancouver: romantic, artistic and with two 3axels. Poor Eva, who, as a champion, was supposed to skate better, looked soooo pathetic.

[Isk8NYC]

You're quite the spin doctor, LOL

He front-loaded the program with jumps, did footwork that was for another piece of music and blew off his quad. He didn't do well. Maybe he should have stuck with what he prepared if this is the best he has.

[let`s talk]

You're quite the spin doctor, LOL

He front-loaded the program with jumps, did footwork that was for another piece of music and blew off his quad. He didn't do well. Maybe he should have stuck with what he prepared if this is the best he has.

Anyway, it was better than Evan`s skating.

[dbny]

You're quite the spin doctor, LOL



Actually, I think he's a troll, because nothing he says makes sense. Just out to stir things up. Guess he hasn't figured out yet that we don't feed trolls here :lol:.

[TreSk8sAZ]

Anyway, it was better than Evan`s skating.

Which is completely a matter of opinion. I thought both Plushenko and Lysachek skated very well in the gala, which isn't supposed to be about competition anyway, it's supposed to be fun for the skaters.

But again, it's a matter of personal opinion.