How to get better spiral extension

[littlekateskate]

I am looking for things to do with my daughter to help with her spiral extension. She can do the splits in every direction but cant get her spiral above her waist.

:)

[Tennisany1]

The ability to get the leg above the waist (assuming the flexibility is there) is directly related to back strength. That is why you see kids with their noses on the ice in an attempt to get their legs higher. I can't remember how old your daughter is but it could be an age thing. As far as working on back strength, that is not something I would do with child unless I was properly trained. A really well qualified ballet teacher is your best bet. If you want to find one, I recommend attending some of the spring ballet festivals in your area and looking at the kids. Find a school where the kids have consistently good posture, well stretched knees, and, if on point, look very steady and secure, ie. no wobbly or overstretched ankles and no knees that look slightly bent forward. That will give you an idea about which school may have good teachers. Then talk to the school about their programs. Right from the early stages there should be some sort of strength and conditioning program with the ballet. That is where your daughter will be able to increase her back strength.

Good luck!

[sk8tmum]

Beyond basic practice and working with the coach, two off ice things helped:

a) an exercise they call the "747" - after the airplane. Have the skater assume the spiral position, and then go up and down on the skating leg; it strengthens the muscles in the leg, the back, and also improves balance.

b) a MaxiFlex. It's a training device that is used to help develop extension and flexibility; it also trains layback spins, Bielmann-type spins, etc. We've used it with success, however, it has to be used carefully, and with adult supervision (never unattended).

However, everything should be passed by/approved by the coach. The coach knows your kid's strengths, weaknesses and should be involved in anything you do - you may end up working against something that the coach is doing, and that's not good!

[rsk8d]

There are several things that will help a skater achieve a spiral position.

1)Strength of the hip extensors (gluteals) and hamstrings, which will actively extend the hip of the lifted leg. This is the primary cause of a low spiral.

2) As posted by a previous poster, lower back strength. Core and lower back exercises will help this, not necessarily just ballet.

3) Flexibility of the hamstrings on the skating leg, and flexibility of the adductors and psoas (hip flexor) on the freeleg side. This one is VERY important. No matter how strong you get, if these muscles are tight, you can't overcome the flexibility deficit with strength in the opposing muscles groups.

[isakswings]

There are several things that will help a skater achieve a spiral position.

1)Strength of the hip extensors (gluteals) and hamstrings, which will actively extend the hip of the lifted leg. This is the primary cause of a low spiral.

2) As posted by a previous poster, lower back strength. Core and lower back exercises will help this, not necessarily just ballet.

3) Flexibility of the hamstrings on the skating leg, and flexibility of the adductors and psoas (hip flexor) on the freeleg side. This one is VERY important. No matter how strong you get, if these muscles are tight, you can't overcome the flexibility deficit with strength in the opposing muscles groups.

Thanks for posting! Dd's coach has given us pointers as well... but I find all of these posts helpful for us too. Dd has a decent spiral but we are always looking to improve it...esp her "bad" leg. Anyway... interesting information!

[rsk8d]

Thanks for posting! Dd's coach has given us pointers as well... but I find all of these posts helpful for us too. Dd has a decent spiral but we are always looking to improve it...esp her "bad" leg. Anyway... interesting information!

No Problem! Hope it helps!

[doubletoe]

Skates are very heavy and they are all the way at the end of the leg, so it takes a lot of lower back and upper glute strength to lift that leg and hold it there. There is also some technique to getting the leg higher on spirals that has nothing to do with strength or flexibility. Here are the two things that helped me get my spirals higher:

1) holding onto something and holding a spiral position *with skates on* as long as possible, and also slowly raising the free leg, holding it, lowering it, raising it again, etc. She can do this at home with guards on.

2) Practicing pushing the skating foot forward and pulling the hips back when doing spirals. To demonstrate, have your daughter hold onto the barrier at the rink, push her skating foot all the way up to the barrier, then pull back as far as possible while raising her back leg behind her into a spiral position. Make sure she keeps her chin up.
This is important because, when the skater's foot is directly under her hips, she can't raise her back leg without getting pitched forward and doing a face plant. To keep her balance, she either has to keep the back leg low or bend the skating leg. The result is a spiral that looks like this: http://tammyjimenez.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/spiral_at_desert_west_2007.91201650_std.jpg
When you push the skating foot forward and pull the hips back while raising the back leg, you can stay balanced toward the back of the blade while lifting the free leg higher, like this: http://www.sashafans.com/media/gallery/2004worlds/short/5.jpg

[kayskate]

Leg strength may be an issue if the skater already has good flexibility. In addition to what others have said, a set of ankle weights may help when practicing spirals off ice. This will simulate the weight of the boot and build leg strength.

Kay

[Isk8NYC]

Leg strength may be an issue if the skater already has good flexibility. In addition to what others have said, a set of ankle weights may help when practicing spirals off ice. This will simulate the weight of the boot and build leg strength.

KayI actually prefer ankle weights to skates because it lessens the risk of injury from falling off a skate. If the family doesn't HAVE ankle weights, I suggest borrowing them or using the skates as an alternative though.

Static balance is very different from, and more difficult than, the kinetic balance of a moving spiral. Standing on skates, even with guards, is more tricky for beginners than wearing sneakers and ankle weights.

[Tennisany1]

... Standing on skates, even with guards, is more tricky for beginners than wearing sneakers and ankle weights.

Not to mention, a bit tough on the blades.

I mentioned ballet, although I would assume gymnastics as well, because those coaches are often (not always) trained in working with young growing bodies. Doing exercises designed even for teenagers can be dangerous to a 7 or 8 year old. Of course, not all ballet and gymnastics teachers are great either.

Doubletoe, my dd tried your exercise in the kitchen last night. She liked the more steady feel of pushing the hips back. She has been really working at keeping her supporting leg fully stretched and realized that pushing the hips back was what her coach was trying to get her to do. He was using a different words that just didn't click as well with her. Thanks!

[caffn8me]

I actually prefer ankle weights to skates because it lessens the risk of injury from falling off a skate

[snip]

Standing on skates, even with guards, is more tricky for beginners than wearing sneakers and ankle weights.You only need to put a skate (with guard on) on the leg being lifted and it doesn't even need to be laced up. The foot on the floor can have normal footwear on. Then swap over.

[doubletoe]

Doubletoe, my dd tried your exercise in the kitchen last night. She liked the more steady feel of pushing the hips back. She has been really working at keeping her supporting leg fully stretched and realized that pushing the hips back was what her coach was trying to get her to do. He was using a different words that just didn't click as well with her. Thanks!

So glad to hear it helped! Isn't it funny how the same thing can be said using different words and one way it will make no sense at all, but another way it will totally click? I have that happen all the time with my coach, too, LOL! BTW, when your daughter pushes her skating foot forward and pushes her hips back, she should also feel that she is pushing her hips DOWN closer to the ice, just like when she does the splits. That will give her a better split on her spiral!

[Tennisany1]

So glad to hear it helped! Isn't it funny how the same thing can be said using different words and one way it will make no sense at all, but another way it will totally click? I have that happen all the time with my coach, too, LOL! BTW, when your daughter pushes her skating foot forward and pushes her hips back, she should also feel that she is pushing her hips DOWN closer to the ice, just like when she does the splits. That will give her a better split on her spiral!

Ahh, the splits. So close yet so far away. She has been working and working on her splits. She is so close but just can't get that last little bit. She is determined I will say that. She is just not naturally uber flexible but she has managed a beautiful catch foot spiral which has a great straight supporting leg and a deep edge, and is on her way to a really nice hair cutter spin.

[Tennisany1]

You only need to put a skate (with guard on) on the leg being lifted and it doesn't even need to be laced up. The foot on the floor can have normal footwear on. Then swap over.

Yikes, that is really an obvious solution that I never thought of! :bow:

[Isk8NYC]

You only need to put a skate (with guard on) on the leg being lifted and it doesn't even need to be laced up. The foot on the floor can have normal footwear on. Then swap over.
Thank you! That's a great suggestion - have to give it a try. Just to keep a swung foot from sending the skates airborn, I think I'd have them do a big bow across the middle hooks.

[Skittl1321]

You only need to put a skate (with guard on) on the leg being lifted and it doesn't even need to be laced up. The foot on the floor can have normal footwear on. Then swap over.

While it's true you need the strength to lift the skate- this isn't really the only thing that needs to be trained. Off ice, my spirals are equal height- above my hip, even with skates on. On ice, my good side is slightly lower than it is off ice, my bad side is well below my hip. It's the strength of the skating leg that's the issue, not the strength of my free leg to hold itself.

I don't know how to fix this, as it's only evident in spirals how weak my glide is. My edges are even leg to leg, and this is actually my landing foot, so I'm stable on it. But for whatever reason it shakes and gives out when I try to do a spiral...

Any suggestions?

(the hip problems that have kept my spirals below my knees seem to be resolving themselves, so now I'm back to having one good spiral and one horrible one and no good excuse...)

[Isk8NYC]

To strengthen the skating leg for a spiral, one of the best exercises is to do low, bent knee spirals. Don't try to raise the leg very high - you really want to get the stretch behind with weight on the skating foot. This is one of the best drills for the Preliminary Spiral pattern as well. Bending the knee strengthens it after several sessions.

I know Skittl probably does this already, but you do have to warm up and stretch before attempting spirals. For myself, I still use the old "foot on the wall" even though it's not in vogue anymore (PT's have found that it's too much strain if not done properly - plopping isn't allowed), but for students, I'll lift their free foot behind them carefully.

You also have to remember turn out on spirals. If your free toe is pointing down, you won't get as much height. You really have to point the toe and turn out the free knee while keeping the trailing leg behind the skating leg.

[fsk8r]

You also have to remember turn out on spirals. If your free toe is pointing down, you won't get as much height. You really have to point the toe and turn out the free knee while keeping the trailing leg behind the skating leg.

You can gain that little bit of extra height from the turnout. I always think about trying to point my toes to the ceiling when doing spirals. It just helps that little bit extra turnout.

[Isk8NYC]

It also changes the muscles that are in use. It's the same thing as a sit spin free foot position. If you have the heel down/toe up, you're using different muscles than a turned-out free foot.

[doubletoe]

Ahh, the splits. So close yet so far away. She has been working and working on her splits. She is so close but just can't get that last little bit. She is determined I will say that. She is just not naturally uber flexible but she has managed a beautiful catch foot spiral which has a great straight supporting leg and a deep edge, and is on her way to a really nice hair cutter spin.

Sounds like she has a limber back! That's great! Fortunately, the splits are much easier to get than spine flexibility, so she's in good shape. I have posted some stretches at various times on the "Skaters" section, so do a thread search and you will find them. Those stretches got me my forward splits in both directions for the first time in my life at age 42, so I can guarantee they will work for her, too! :)