speaking of ice dance costumes and themes ...

[Artemis]

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Olympic+skaters+thin+with+First+Nations+over+Aussi e+aboriginal+costume+flap/2477891/story.html

I'm sure Domnina & Shabalin didn't mean to be offensive, but to my view they're guilty of cultural insensitivity at minimum.

[Isk8NYC]

This is a major controversy, isn't it? Now the dance was supposed to be Australian Aboriginal, but I understand that the native peoples of Canada have lodged a complaint with the ISU. I guess that's because next month's Olympics are in Vancouver.

I thought the costumes looked cheesy. Even if you don't agree that the program/costumes were insensitive, they're guilty of bad taste.

[Artemis]

I thought the costumes looked cheesy. Even if you don't agree that the program/costumes were insensitive, they're guilty of bad taste.

Well sure, but c'mon, they're Russian ice dancers. When was the last time you saw a Russian ice dance team that made you say "Hey, that's a tasteful and classy costume!" :roll:

Yes, the "protest" is coming in part from the Four Host First Nations (the four Aboriginal cultures on whose traditional lands the various Games events will be held), but representatives from the Australian Aboriginal community have also expressed their concern. The Four Host First Nations have an unprecedented level of involvement in these Games, and they have taken the role very seriously -- including representing and advocating for all indigenous peoples.

I do think that their response -- i.e., requesting a meeting with Domnina & Shabalin in the hopes of educating them -- was a good way to go. It will be interesting to see how D&S respond.

[Layne]

I don't see how it's offensive to anyone, or even insensitive. But yes, definitely hideous.

[Mel On Ice]

Well sure, but c'mon, they're Russian ice dancers. When was the last time you saw a Russian ice dance team that made you say "Hey, that's a tasteful and classy costume!" :roll:

awesome! ITA!

[Isk8NYC]

Well sure, but c'mon, they're Russian ice dancers. When was the last time you saw a Russian ice dance team that made you say "Hey, that's a tasteful and classy costume!" :roll:One rink I worked at had a holiday dinner out at a restaurant. One of the coaches from the rink was bringing his wife, whom I had never met. I mentioned this to someone at the party and the person I was talking to commented, "Well, you'll know her immediately. All "those women" (of that ethicity) dress like hookers." I was :o because this person is usually very kind. I made some excuse and wandered away, sure it was just the booze talking.

The wife arrived wearing something that would have been perfect for the corner of 34th and 10th Avenue in Manhattan. :oops:
Apparently, she's visited the husband at the rink several times wearing inappropriate outfits that parents had commented on to the rink manager.

[Artemis]

I don't see how it's offensive to anyone, or even insensitive.

It's called cultural appropriation. If you're going to "use" cultural elements that are not your own, it's a good idea to find out the protocol. And for most North American Aboriginal cultures, as well as Maori and Australian Aboriginal, there are clear and definite ownership issues when it comes to cultural iconography. I don't know the specifics for Australian Aboriginals, but in BC First Nations, for example, specific dances tend to be owned by specific families and clans and cannot be peformed by anyone else. So to "make up" your own Aboriginal dance is incredibly insensitive to the protocols of the culture you're portraying.

[NDsk8]

No one owns such simple icons, and it is silly to think they do. I see the costume as more abstract than that, and I'm offended that the Aborigines are offended and trying to monopolize such vague symbols.
DD

[Query]

Are Meryl Davis and Charlie White guilty of stealing Indian and Hindu iconography?

Much good music and dance borrows cultural themes. Perhaps cultures that don't feel endangered are more complimented than troubled by imitation.

[crayonskater]

Davis & White incorporated dance moves from traditional dances into their Bollywood routine, and they were careful to ensure that they were doing the moves correctly. Their costumes are beautiful, and inspired by traditional fine dress. I think they would have faced similar criticism if they had thought "Oh, the best way to represent India is for us to dress like Gandhi, right?" ;)

I think the problem with the Russian dancers' costume is not just the problem of cultural appropriation from marginalized groups, but that it looks like something that's a caricature of a stereotype of what someone thinks Australian Aboriginal costuming looks like. And it's not pretty or elegant, so it looks like they're holding up the culture for mockery. I mean, seriously, eucalyptus leaves? The body paint could have been interpreted into some face make-up, and they could have taken their inspiration from some of colorful cloths, beadwork and feathers used.

[Mel On Ice]

Are Meryl Davis and Charlie White guilty of stealing Indian and Hindu iconography?

Much good music and dance borrows cultural themes. Perhaps cultures that don't feel endangered are more complimented than troubled by imitation.

IIRC, Davis and White's costumes and choreography were done by natives of India who were experts in the field. As a result, D&W have a HUGE fanbase in India now, with a ton of hits for this particular dance on youtube. They did it right.

[Skittl1321]

Davis & White incorporated dance moves from traditional dances into their Bollywood routine, and they were careful to ensure that they were doing the moves correctly. Their costumes are beautiful, and inspired by traditional fine dress. I think they would have faced similar criticism if they had thought "Oh, the best way to represent India is for us to dress like Gandhi, right?" ;)

I think Charlie has said his tunic was bought off the rack at an Indian store.

[Schmeck]

I don't see how it's offensive to anyone, or even insensitive. But yes, definitely hideous.

Something can be offensive to one group and not be offensive to another. Just because you don't think it's offensive, doesn't mean someone else doesn't.

For example, I don't think it is offensive to show my knees and shoulders when I wear a dress, but it is very offensive in my friend's church to do so.

Realizing that we are not all the same, and to show sensitivity to others makes this world a great place. To do otherwise makes this world a miserable place to be.

[Isk8NYC]

I think Charlie has said his tunic was bought off the rack at an Indian store.
Yes, but they also said that they had it "modified" for skating, I guess to provide ease and add stirrups for the pant legs, etc. He is stylin' in that tunic.

My BFF's FIL is from India. D&W's clothing is something I'd see at weddings and special occasions with that family.

[crayonskater]

I think Charlie has said his tunic was bought off the rack at an Indian store.

Sure. It looks a lot like one of the pieces of wedding apparel for my friend's wedding. I didn't say that the pieces couldn't be authentic, just that they obviously went for something pretty, of the culture, and stylish, rather than adding random eucalyptus leaves in a misguided desire to be "real."

[Query]

To many people in "conservative" cultures, or following conservative interpretations of certain religions, all female dance and figure skating clothing is offensive, as are all public performances by women.

In some cultures, people of certain classes, genders or ethnic backgrounds have been restricted to certain areas. Or cannot be educated. Or may be enslaved.

Some degree of sensitivity is polite, but most of us reject or ignore the standards just mentioned.

The exclusive use of any form of knowledge, music, dance, color, artistic pattern, form of motion, food, etc. by any specific clan, ethnic group, or nation may itself be elitist and offensive.

A costume may be badly done. But that is a separate issue from exclusivity.

God help my sister if she visits a culture that reserves purple to royalty!