Vanessa James/Yannick Bonheur

[FSWer]

Anyone know if they have a website? BTW. who made it to the Olympics in Pairs? I read in IFS. that even though they got a spot. Jame's citizenship issues remain unsolved. Because of that, I can't see how they would have been able to even get a spot to begin with. The way I see it. If skaters get the spot...and they have secured it for a country to begin with to reresent. Everything should be all set. Let them go GDI.!!!!

[allisonjames]

Vanessa and Yannick's Website is: www.james-bonheur.com

[FSWer]

I saw the site. Aren't there any competition photos up yet?

[FSWer]

Say,does anyone know if they ever got to go to the 2010 Olympics? I heard they got a spot. But that there were problems that kept them from going.

[FSWer]

Ok. I hope this is ok to post on a Board. But it just came to me today. As I don't seem to remember there ever being one from any country in the whole History of Pairs Skating. But can anyone confurm if I'm right about Vanessa James and Yannick Bonheur being the first black Pair Team in the History of Skating? Or are there others in the Discipline of Pairs I don't know about? BTW. does anyone know were Vanessa's Partner is from? As how would his name be pronouced? What club do they represent btw.?

[BuggieMom]

There might have been others at lower levels, but they are thought to be the first black ELITE level pair team.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20102120353

Yannick's name is pronounced yah-NEEK', he is French.

Not sure the name of the club they represent, but it is the French Federation, not USFSA...

[FSWer]

Interesting. When were they Paired up? Something tells me there a new Team? What level are they?

[FSWer]

BTW. anyone know if they made it to the 2010 Olympics? I heard they secured a spot. But that t there were citizenship issues keeping them from going? Does anyone know the outcome of that?

[BuggieMom]

Check the story in the Indianapolis Star for some answers...they are at the Olympics (I believe they skate 6th in the short program), and would be considered Senior by USFS standards...I am not sure what that is in the French levels

[FSWer]

I guess they didn't go. As I didn't see them in the Pairs Short Program.

[Clarice]

They're on the list of competitors, FSWer. They don't necessarily show all 20 pairs on TV.

Edited to add: They're currently in 15th place.

[FSWer]

They're on the list of competitors, FSWer. They don't necessarily show all 20 pairs on TV.

Edited to add: They're currently in 15th place.

The NERVE of THEM!!!!!! If there going to Broadcast the OLYMPICS...DO IT RIGHT!!!! I hope there on in the Free Skate tomorrow. I guess icenetwork.com still hasn't gotten it in their heads that not EVERYONE can access the events on-line!!! GD.

[sk8ergalgal]

They finished 15th overall after the short program. Vanessa was born in Canada so I guess the citizenship issue was that she had to give up her canadian status to be able to compete in Vancouver. They were paired up together in 2007 and began competing together in 2008. They won the 2010 French nationals. They finished 12th at last years World Championships.

[FSWer]

They finished 15th overall after the short program. Vanessa was born in Canada so I guess the citizenship issue was that she had to give up her canadian status to be able to compete in Vancouver. They were paired up together in 2007 and began competing together in 2008. They won the 2010 French nationals. They finished 12th at last years World Championships.

That doesn't seem to make any sense. How does someone need to GIVE UP the status of were they were BORN,to be able to COMPETE for it? BTW. can someone please post photos of the whole Pairs event? Thanks.

[Clarice]

The NERVE of THEM!!!!!! If there going to Broadcast the OLYMPICS...DO IT RIGHT!!!! I hope there on in the Free Skate tomorrow. I guess icenetwork.com still hasn't gotten it in their heads that not EVERYONE can access the events on-line!!! GD.

Are you watching the network television broadcast on NBC? They can't show every competitor in every Olympic event. It's just not possible. There are events going on at the same time in different places. Besides, NBC has other programs they have to show, so they can only show so many hours of Olympic coverage each day. They try to show the top competitors in each event. That's why they keep switching back and forth from one sport to another. I'll be surprised if this particular team gets shown for the long program - they're pretty far down in the standings.

[Clarice]

That doesn't seem to make any sense. How does someone need to GIVE UP the status of were they were BORN,to be able to COMPETE for it? BTW. can someone please post photos of the whole Pairs event? Thanks.

In order to compete in the Olympics, you have to be a citizen of the country you're representing. Some countries allow a person to have dual citizenship, so they can be citizens of two countries at the same time. Other countries don't allow that, so if you want to represent a different country than the one you were born in you have to give up your original citizenship. sk8ergalgal is saying that Vanessa had to give up her Canadian citizenship and become a French citizen in order to represent France in these Olympics, which just happen to be held in Canada. This happened to Russian pair skater Yuko Kavaguti, too. She was born in Japan, but gave up her Japanese citizenship to skate for Russia.

[sk8ergalgal]

Sorry if you misunderstood my post FSWer just assumed you knew about the citizenship rules.. You can find photos for the event on a number of websites I am sure.. try ctvolympics.ca

[jdachs]

Since I don't know if we can post links to articles anywhere but in the news section, I posted a link to an article about them there. Yes, they are the first elite black skating pairs team to make any Olympics, as the article points out.

I don't want to put in too many spoilers but if you check the News section of this forum, you can find not only the link but accurate info about how James had to change citizenship status - and why - in order to compete for France. Bonheur did not.

I think it is amazing that they have gotten [B]so far[B] considering they have been together only since 2007. I'm sure people here know of lots of great pairs skaters who have been together for less time (or longer) and not gotten so far!

[jdachs]

It wasn't traditional. But it worked!

[jdachs]

First black pairs skaters in Olympic competition. You can see more about that at the news site in this forum, just scroll down to article link: http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=4187

Also, they met in an unusual way, through an aunt. Plus, they've been together only a short while, for pairs skaters. I'm wondering what the future holds for them!

[FSWer]

In order to compete in the Olympics, you have to be a citizen of the country you're representing. Some countries allow a person to have dual citizenship, so they can be citizens of two countries at the same time. Other countries don't allow that, so if you want to represent a different country than the one you were born in you have to give up your original citizenship. sk8ergalgal is saying that Vanessa had to give up her Canadian citizenship and become a French citizen in order to represent France in these Olympics, which just happen to be held in Canada. This happened to Russian pair skater Yuko Kavaguti, too. She was born in Japan, but gave up her Japanese citizenship to skate for Russia.

I think too what I'D NEED TO KNOW TOO. iS WHYA SKATER WOULD EVEN WANT TO SKATE FOR ANOTHER COUNTRY OTHER THEN WERE THEY WERE BORN. Also why do you need to be a citizen? IF it were me I would have said,hey..even though the skater was born somewre else. They won the place fairly...let them go. Why do we even need that rule?

[Clarice]

I think too what I'D NEED TO KNOW TOO. iS WHYA SKATER WOULD EVEN WANT TO SKATE FOR ANOTHER COUNTRY OTHER THEN WERE THEY WERE BORN. Also why do you need to be a citizen? IF it were me I would have said,hey..even though the skater was born somewre else. They won the place fairly...let them go. Why do we even need that rule?

Well, in the case of pair teams, the problem is finding the right partner. If the best partner you can find was born in a different country than you, one of the partners is going to have to become a citizen of the other partner's country in order for the team to go to the Olympics. Both partners of a pair or dance team have to represent the same country. That's an Olympic rule. I don't know why we need it, either. I guess it's because in the Olympics, countries keep count of how many medals their athletes won. If the skaters in a pair team represented two different countries, the countries would argue about whose medal it was. It really is kind of silly, isn't it?

There's another reason a skater might want to change countries. Say you're not good enough to make the Olympic team in your own country. If you can find a country that doesn't have a whole lot of good skaters and change your citizenship to that country, you'll have a better chance of getting to go to the Olympics. You probably won't do very well once you're there, since you'll get beaten by the skaters from your own country that you couldn't beat in the first place, but at least you got to go and can say that you were on an Olympic team. For some skaters, that's enough reason to change countries.

[Isk8NYC]

Think of how Tanith Belbin must feel skating in her birth country of Canada for the United States. She changed her citizenship to qualify for the Olympics with Ben Agosto.

Not all countries require you to be born there to be a citizen. Ireland used to have a rule saying if your Grandparents came from that country, you could be an Irish citizen. (Many business travelers after 9/11 took advantage of that for their own safety. Traveling under a US passport could be dangerous in some areas.)

In some cases, the skater has dual citizenship, which can happen when a child is born in one country to parents who are citizens elsewhere, or when his/her parents are from different countries. My former skating coach was born in the US to an American father and a West German mother. She had dual citizenship and lived in Germany with her mother to train. She became National Champion and went to the Olympics for West Germany, but after she stopped competing, they all moved to the US, where she still coaches.

As Clarice points out, some skaters are more valuable athletes in another country, so they often pursue skating titles elsewhere if they have the citizenship/birth rights.

[FSWer]

Well, in the case of pair teams, the problem is finding the right partner. If the best partner you can find was born in a different country than you, one of the partners is going to have to become a citizen of the other partner's country in order for the team to go to the Olympics. Both partners of a pair or dance team have to represent the same country. That's an Olympic rule. I don't know why we need it, either. I guess it's because in the Olympics, countries keep count of how many medals their athletes won. If the skaters in a pair team represented two different countries, the countries would argue about whose medal it was. It really is kind of silly, isn't it?

There's another reason a skater might want to change countries. Say you're not good enough to make the Olympic team in your own country. If you can find a country that doesn't have a whole lot of good skaters and change your citizenship to that country, you'll have a better chance of getting to go to the Olympics. You probably won't do very well once you're there, since you'll get beaten by the skaters from your own country that you couldn't beat in the first place, but at least you got to go and can say that you were on an Olympic team. For some skaters, that's enough reason to change countries.

I think it really is silly. I don't know why the olympics does that. Rather then just let the Pairs skaters choose for themselves what country to represent. In which case the only thing the Olympics would have to do is just say weather spots were filled and how many skaters they could send. FOR EX. why not say to skaters we can send x amount of skaters to represent each of these countries then ask the SKATERS who they want to represent. In which case the Olympics could just say which countries have spots open for them. Same with Freestyle Skaters. I think it might help if we could find a history to WHY the Olympics does that.If you think about it. hat's like Pairing up a Jewish Guy and a Cathlic Guy for Competion. But the Jewish Guy has to give up the heritage of were he was born and become Cathlic just to Compete. LOL.

[FSWer]

Are you watching the network television broadcast on NBC? They can't show every competitor in every Olympic event. It's just not possible. There are events going on at the same time in different places. Besides, NBC has other programs they have to show, so they can only show so many hours of Olympic coverage each day. They try to show the top competitors in each event. That's why they keep switching back and forth from one sport to another. I'll be surprised if this particular team gets shown for the long program - they're pretty far down in the standings.

I saw the Free Skate yesterday,and they just showed all the same skaters. Only in the Free. They have completely ignored the other half of the skaters. GEE,I SURELY HOPE they don't edit Rachael Flatt when the Ladies are on. As SHE'S the reason I'M going to watch it.

[Clarice]

I saw the Free Skate yesterday,and they just showed all the same skaters. Only in the Free. They have completely ignored the other half of the skaters. GEE,I SURELY HOPE they don't edit Rachael Flatt when the Ladies are on. As SHE'S the reason I'M going to watch it.

I don't think you'll have to worry about that, FSWer. Rachel is the US National Champion, so I'm sure they'll show her. They showed both US pairs, even though they weren't in the running for medals.

[Buzzz]

A very nice promising pair for France. Good luck to them in the future.

[Virtualsk8r]

Vanessa did not have to give up her Canadian citizenship. In fact, I beleive she also has British citizenship through her parents, and skated for Britain using that connection. Many countries, including Canada, require skaters to sign a letter of intent to become Canadian citizens upon age of majority in order to represent the country or enter qualifying competitions. But Canada does not require citizens to abandon their citizenship.

Japan does not allow dual citizenship, so many Japanese skaters do not skate for other countries at the Olympics. Canada had a pair team that was in that situation, where one partner did not want to give up Japanese citizenship and so the pair could not go to the Olympics.

France does allow dual citizenship, however French citizenship is very difficult to get, even if you are born there of non-French parents. But they do make exceptions. In fact, the current Canadian Governor-General gave up French citizenship she obtained through her French husband in order to be Canadian GG.

Fedor Andreev did not compete at these Olympics because Azerbijan did not get his citizenship and ISU paperwork done in time. Fedor has Canadian, Russian, and I believe he now has American citizenship. I guess he likes to collect countries instead of medals....lol

[FSWer]

I'd still love to know why we have citizenship even as part of the rules in the Olympics. How did that even get started? I wish we could find a history on that. BTW. I did some figuring...and with the amount of airtime used for so many updates on the sports in the MIDDLE of a Broadcast. I'm sure they could show a LOT MORE Skaters...if NOT all. In which case you would then get the updates between the END OF the event and the START OF the next.

[fsk8r]

Vanessa did not have to give up her Canadian citizenship. In fact, I beleive she also has British citizenship through her parents, and skated for Britain using that connection. Many countries, including Canada, require skaters to sign a letter of intent to become Canadian citizens upon age of majority in order to represent the country or enter qualifying competitions. But Canada does not require citizens to abandon their citizenship.

Japan does not allow dual citizenship, so many Japanese skaters do not skate for other countries at the Olympics. Canada had a pair team that was in that situation, where one partner did not want to give up Japanese citizenship and so the pair could not go to the Olympics.

France does allow dual citizenship, however French citizenship is very difficult to get, even if you are born there of non-French parents. But they do make exceptions. In fact, the current Canadian Governor-General gave up French citizenship she obtained through her French husband in order to be Canadian GG.

Fedor Andreev did not compete at these Olympics because Azerbijan did not get his citizenship and ISU paperwork done in time. Fedor has Canadian, Russian, and I believe he now has American citizenship. I guess he likes to collect countries instead of medals....lol

The only issue with switching citizenship so that you can compete for another country rather than the first one you started with, is that the first country has paid investments into the skater through sponsorship and grants and that money is wasted when they go off and skate for another country as the first country is unable to reap the benefits of any potential medals, etc.