2010 US Nationals - Ladies Discussion *SPOILERS* [Archive]

Isk8NYC

01-20-2010, 10:10 AM

Since she missed last night's practice, I don't think so...we'll see when today's practice starts. (3pm ET)

khq.com is the local NBC affiliate. They've been trying to stream practice video over the web as much as possible.
(Sometimes they've been restricted from doing so by the Powers that Be.) The live video link is on their front page. You have to install a viewer program though.

You also get to watch the reporter talk to people off-camera, while they're waiting for the news programs to call them in. (Right now, Senior Ice Dancing is on.)

sk8ryellow

01-20-2010, 12:40 PM

Is there any practice ice that we can watch on ice network of the ladies?

Mel On Ice

01-20-2010, 02:33 PM

actually watching practice on IN right now, Sasha landed the lutz combo and biffed it on the flip. She looks good!

Isk8NYC

01-20-2010, 02:49 PM

Looks like she's warming up loops. Nope, started a runthrough of the footwork. I didn't see any loops.

Tall girl in pink looks really strong.

Who's Orser coaching on this session? Who else is on the practice?

Interesting - they all took bows at the end of the practice. I guess it could be considered practice too, right? ;)

Schmeck

01-20-2010, 03:31 PM

Just figured out that they were showing practice ice, missed group A, rats!

Schmeck

01-20-2010, 03:33 PM

Who just practiced her bows to the audience?

ETA - she just did it again - odd!

Isk8NYC

01-20-2010, 03:39 PM

Rats! I had to answer an email so I missed it. There's a list of practice skaters somewhere; I'll see if I can find it and post it. Ladies Group C is coming up after the Zam break.

ETA: FOUND IT! (http://www.usfigureskating.org/Content/events/200910/uschamps/2010USChampsPracticeGroups.xls)

ALREADY SKATED:

Group A Cohen Gao Gilles Gong Sperduto Stern
Group B Czisny Bereswill Kawamura Rosenthal Diggs Khazova

COMING UP NEXT:

Group C Flatt Nagasu Maxwell Morrow Bulanhagui Dobbs
Group D Zhang Wagner Hughes Liang Howey Cesario

Isk8NYC

01-20-2010, 03:47 PM

Cohen and Czisny looked about the same to me - good spins and footwork. Didn't hit all the jumps, but didn't seem to hurt themselves trying. Seemed like a run through.

You can watch the practices live on www.IceNetwork.com (http://www.IceNetwork.com)

They have different camera angles on http://www.khq.com/global/Category.asp?c=179646 (http://www.khq.com/global/Category.asp?c=179646) (which was up, but isn't right now) The image on khq is dark and colorless, but the off-camera commentary was interesting.

Isk8NYC

01-20-2010, 03:49 PM

Who just practiced her bows to the audience?

ETA - she just did it again - odd!
Now I want to buy the all-access pass for next year's nationals. I had talked myself into a seniors-only package, but I'm changing my mind.

Schmeck

01-20-2010, 03:50 PM

There's someone in the C group who looks so much like Czisny that I thought it was her, on the wrong practice ice! Any idea who it is?

nevermind - she took off her jacket, and she doesn't look like Czisny anymore!

And please Rachel Flatt, get your shoulders down and back - a wonderful jumper, but the stoop/no neck thing is so distracting to me that I can't enjoy her great skating!

Isk8NYC

01-20-2010, 03:53 PM

I think it's Bulanhagui - saw her at Sectionals and I think that she was tall and dark-haired like that.

flying~camel

01-20-2010, 04:26 PM

Group C Flatt Nagasu Maxwell Morrow Bulanhagui Dobbs

Yay! Go Chelsea Morrow!

She's my & Mel On Ice's clubmate :)

daisies

01-20-2010, 04:33 PM

Who just practiced her bows to the audience?

ETA - she just did it again - odd!

All competitors bow at practice ice at nationals! Always! :)

Schmeck

01-20-2010, 06:41 PM

All competitors bow at practice ice at nationals! Always! :)

yes, but this skater did it twice, and not at the end of the ice time. She did it with around 10 minutes left of practice time, then came back and did it again, with about 3-4 minutes of ice time to go. Just odd timing!

sk8ryellow

01-20-2010, 08:10 PM

did anyone see how tatyana khazova's practice ice went?

jazzpants

01-20-2010, 08:20 PM

WOW!!! Zhang almost ran over Liang and one other gal during her runthru!!! SHEESH!!! 8O

sk8ryellow

01-20-2010, 08:20 PM

I cant stand her triple lutz with that aweful leg!:evil:

Isk8NYC

01-20-2010, 08:29 PM

There was an actual collision on the Junior Ladies short warmup. Two skaters went down - you could see the scratch marks from the ice on one of their backs.

Schmeck

01-20-2010, 08:56 PM

Was a bit disgusted by the scoring/called elements for junior ladies short - judge #1 has some explaining to do, as does the tech spec.

Also, can you give -GOE if a spiral sequence is just plain nasty?

Isk8NYC

01-20-2010, 09:02 PM

I had it on, but I wasn't really watching. It seemed like the boo birds were out in numbers. Guess they didn't like the scores.

Why was the spiral sequence nasty?

daisies

01-20-2010, 10:20 PM

Was a bit disgusted by the scoring/called elements for junior ladies short.
Which scores and which elements?

Schmeck

01-21-2010, 05:54 AM

I had it on, but I wasn't really watching. It seemed like the boo birds were out in numbers. Guess they didn't like the scores.

Why was the spiral sequence nasty?

A really nasty "crotch first" spiral with bad leg, arm, head and torso position getting a +3 GOE from one judge. Or how about a layback with no hip or leg turnout at all, and a very weak leg position getting called a level 4?

daisies

01-21-2010, 07:59 AM

Don't know about the spiral sequence until I rewatch it (which skater?), but the layback leg/turnout has nothing to do with the level. The technical panel doesn't address quality, only whether or not the spin satisfies the requirements for the level, and if the spin exhibits four features, then it gets a level 4. Any quality issues would be addressed by the judges.

I'd be interested to see the layback you're referring to, though -- which skater? If she also got +GOE, she might have satisfied enough +GOE requirements, such as quick centering, more than expected revolutions, etc.

Isk8NYC

01-21-2010, 08:35 AM

There is a video of Sasha at yesterday's practice here: http://www.krem.com/home/Raw-Sasha-Cohens-first-practice-skate-in-Spokane-82196867.html

Warning: may cause motion sickness, lol. The camera's really bouncy, but it was great footage because it focused on Sasha for the most part, so you could see that she's okay on the ice. I didn't feel she had a spectacular practice and the footwork didn't really impress me, which is so wrong, it's not funny. (I have AWFUL footwork, so I usually admire everyone else in the world, lol.)

Isk8NYC

01-21-2010, 10:08 AM

Results of last night's draw for Championship Ladies Short Program:

Warmup Group
1 Tatyana Khazova, Broadmoor SC
2 Rebecca Stern, University of Delaware FSC
3 Rachael Flatt, Broadmoor SC
4 Alissa Czisny, Detroit SC
5 Samantha Cesario, SC of New York Inc

Warmup Group
6 Christina Gao, Northern Kentucky SC
7 Mirai Nagasu, Pasadena FSC
8 Chelsea Morrow, Greater Grand Rapids FSC
9 Alexe Gilles, Broadmoor SC
10 Ellie Kawamura, All Year FSC
11 Caroline Zhang, All Year FSC

Warmup Group
12 Amanda Dobbs, Peninsula SC
13 Laney Diggs, All Year FSC
14 Melissa Bulanhagui, University of Delaware FSC
15 Sasha Cohen, Orange County FSC
16 Christina-Maria Sperduto, St Paul FSC
17 Beatrisa Liang, All Year FSC

Warmup Group
18 Emily Hughes, SC of New York Inc
19 Becky Bereswill, Houston FSC
20 Blake Rosenthal, SC of Wilmington Inc
21 Kayla Howey, DuPage FSC
22 Kristiene Gong, All Year FSC
23 Ashley Wagner, SC of Wilmington Inc

Skittl1321

01-21-2010, 11:57 AM

What does the bold indicate? It looked like the "big names" but I didn't recognize one, and a few don't seem to deserve "big name" status yet/anymore.

I actually came on the thread to say if you are lucky enough to get Universal Sports they posted on FSU that they will be showing the entire event- 4 hours- and that program guides will not be updated, so make sure to check the actual channel for the extended broadcast, not just your TIVO (you might have to schedule to tape random things.) I think this adds to the front end, not the back- their website should say

sk8ryellow

01-21-2010, 12:06 PM

Results of last night's draw for Championship Ladies Short Program:

Warmup Group
1 Tatyana Khazova, Broadmoor SC
<snip>

I am so excited to watch tonight, Tatyana is at nationals for the second time this year so hopefully she will do good!

Isk8NYC

01-21-2010, 12:22 PM

What does the bold indicate? It looked like the "big names" but I didn't recognize one, and a few don't seem to deserve "big name" status yet/anymore.Not just the biggies - I bolded anyone whose name I recognized, including skateryellow's favorite. That's how I usually pick skaters for my USFSA Fantasy Skating team - it's random and I never make the Top 10. I wondered if anyone would comment, lol.

MQSeries

01-21-2010, 02:16 PM

Sasha looked great, aside from the flip, in that practice clip. The ssl maybe wasn't as COP-friendly as it could be, but she skated with attack and confidence. I really hope she puts out a clean performance tonight. I'd love to see where the judges place her with a clean routine.

daisies

01-21-2010, 02:37 PM

A really nasty "crotch first" spiral with bad leg, arm, head and torso position getting a +3 GOE from one judge. Or how about a layback with no hip or leg turnout at all, and a very weak leg position getting called a level 4?

Don't know about the spiral sequence until I rewatch it (which skater?), but the layback leg/turnout has nothing to do with the level. The technical panel doesn't address quality, only whether or not the spin satisfies the requirements for the level, and if the spin exhibits four features, then it gets a level 4. Any quality issues would be addressed by the judges.

I'd be interested to see the layback you're referring to, though -- which skater? If she also got +GOE, she might have satisfied enough +GOE requirements, such as quick centering, more than expected revolutions, etc.

OK, I must be missing something, because none of the Junior Ladies got a +3 GOE on her spiral sequence in the short. The only +3 GOEs were given to the top two, and they were for laybacks, with the first-place skater, Zawadski, getting one and the second-place skater, Baga, getting two. But Zawadski's spiral sequence was just below the layback on the protocol, so is it possible you just read it wrong?

If it was Zawadski's spiral sequence you were referring to as being nasty, I respectfully disagree. It was quite good, plus her third position was very original. I can see why it got several +2 GOEs, because it fulfilled four of the bullet points for positive GOE. A skater needs two bullets for +1, four for +2 and six for +3. The bullets to choose from are 1) good flow, energy and execution; 2) good speed during sequence; 3) good body line and full extension; 4) minimal delay between spiral positions; 5) good flexibility; 6) creativity and originality; 7) ability to attain positions and variations quickly and effortlessly; and 8) element matched to the musical structure.

Regarding her layback, if that's the layback you were referring to, it fulfilled the requirement for level 4, with the backwards layback held at least 8 revs, a switch to a sideways-leaning spin for at least 3 revs, a haircutter and a Bielmann. If it wasn't her layback you were referring to, please let me know which one it was, because I am curious! :)

Schmeck

01-21-2010, 02:46 PM

OK, I must be missing something, because none of the Junior Ladies got a +3 GOE on her spiral sequence in the short. The only +3 GOEs were given to the top two, and they were for laybacks, with the first-place skater, Zawadski, getting one and the second-place skater, Baga, getting two. But Zawadski's spiral sequence was just below the layback on the protocol, so is it possible you just read it wrong?

If it was Zawadski's spiral sequence you were referring to as being nasty, I respectfully disagree. It was quite good, plus her third position was very original. I can see why it got several +2 GOEs, because it fulfilled four of the bullet points for positive GOE. A skater needs two bullets for +1, four for +2 and six for +3. The bullets to choose from are 1) good flow, energy and execution; 2) good speed during sequence; 3) good body line and full extension; 4) minimal delay between spiral positions; 5) good flexibility; 6) creativity and originality; 7) ability to attain positions and variations quickly and effortlessly; and 8) element matched to the musical structure.

Regarding her layback, if that's the layback you were referring to, it fulfilled the requirement for level 4, with the backwards layback held at least 8 revs, a switch to a sideways-leaning spin for at least 3 revs, a haircutter and a Bielmann. If it wasn't her layback you were referring to, please let me know which one it was, because I am curious! :)

Yes, I got my two aspects backwards - the crotch-right-at-ya was the level 4, the pathetic layback position got the +3, sorry! How can a terrible leg position get a positive GOE? I've seen pre-pre skaters with better layback leg positions.

And I'm just tired of the ugly -for -points trend, and skating down the ice crotch first is as nasty as it can get.

ETA - not arguing that Zawadski doesn't deserve 1st place, just that it seems there's a bit of an agenda with the tech spec and a judge or two on who gets what called, etc. Seen it in synchro, so I'm not surprised to see it here, just frustrated. I'm expecting to see it in the senior ladies too - Cohen and Zhang have the same wonky lutz and flip take-offs. We'll see how that's judged tonight.

sk8ryellow

01-21-2010, 05:40 PM

I am so excited for tonight!!!! Even though my time it starts at 8:30pm I am willing to stay up late to watch!!!! I will just tell my coach in the morning that I HAD to watch it!!!!!!!!! Plus I can still get a couple hours of sleep after, I dont have to get up till 4am!:P;)8-):o:P

Schmeck

01-21-2010, 06:27 PM

8:30 PM, you lucky duck - it doesn't start here until 10:30PM, which is way past this old lady's bedtime!

Mel On Ice

01-21-2010, 07:51 PM

Go Chels! WMAS is rooting for you!

sk8ryellow

01-21-2010, 09:40 PM

8:30 PM, you lucky duck - it doesn't start here until 10:30PM, which is way past this old lady's bedtime!

ahh that sucks!!!! You should really stay up and watch it because its going to be something special!!! I have already rearranged my living room so the couch is now facing the computer:D:mrgreen::P:o I cant wait!!!!!!!!

Mel On Ice

01-21-2010, 09:54 PM

I'm pretty excited looking at the time "This warmup is over, please clear the ice..."

Stuck at work so I can't watch - anyone doing online updates?

sk8ryellow

01-21-2010, 10:13 PM

1) Tatyana skated ok she didnt do the triple loop on the end of her triple lutz
2) Rebecca Fell on two jumps and the other jump was spinny
3) Rachel Flatt WONDEFUL PROGRAM its the best I have ever seen her skate and her personal best!

sk8ryellow

01-21-2010, 10:21 PM

Allissa Cizney just skated and I am afraid to say that she can kiss the olympics goodbye because she fell on triple lutz, popped triple flip to a double, and did the double axel. She had no jump combo which will also cost her due to falling on the Triple Lutz.:frus: Her spins were really good though. The standings so far are:

1) Rachel Flatt
2)Allissa Cizney
3) Tatyana Khazova
4) Rebecca Stern

Mel On Ice

01-21-2010, 10:43 PM

well, I'm on pins and needles for Chelsea. She has a strong SP, but gets so nervous...

Mel On Ice

01-21-2010, 10:49 PM

whoa, Mirai!

MQSeries

01-21-2010, 11:21 PM

Ouch on Cziney. I wonder if she'll call it a day after this Nationals. She's just not a competitor.

Go Sasha!!!!!!

phoenix

01-21-2010, 11:27 PM

phoenix

01-22-2010, 12:02 AM

Well, looks like no one else is doing live synopsis, so....

Amanda Dobbs

Very nice jumps, covers a lot of distance!!

clean program, very flowy, weak step sequence, nice spins

Todd Sand & Jenni Meno w/ her in K&C--must be her coaches

Scores: 56.11

currently 4th

Mel On Ice

01-22-2010, 12:04 AM

did you see Laney's hands shaking at the beginning of her program? Poor thing.

phoenix

01-22-2010, 12:09 AM

Lanie Diggs

Frank Carrol coach

Wearing gloves flesh colored (??) showed a closeup; her hands were shaking!

3 Lutz, fall

3 Flip (2 foot) 2 toe combo

2 axel clean

Very personable, flirts w/ audience.

Score: 42.87

currently 10th

Mel On Ice

01-22-2010, 12:13 AM

Bulangani was cool, very interesting program.

Mel On Ice

01-22-2010, 12:14 AM

I've noticed that the Burberry scarves are out and fur is in at the K&C.

phoenix

01-22-2010, 12:15 AM

Melissa Bulanhagui

3 lutz

interesting layback positions

Memoirs of a Geisha music, my fav!

weak spirals

3 sal, 2 loop, stepped out

she's turning Japanese music into tribal dancing almost...kind of wacky...

2 axel

She's more an athletic skater than artistic

Went to wrong side of rink to get off! lolol

score: 45.60

currently 9th

OT just realized it's Tara doing commentary--she's not bad.

Mel On Ice

01-22-2010, 12:16 AM

moment of truth - the return of Sasha!

phoenix

01-22-2010, 12:31 AM

Here we go!!!

SASHA

Lovely red dress

fussing w/ right skate/tights

3 lutz, 2 toe clean

3 flip poss 2 foot, but maybe clean.

Skating very strong

2 axel good!!

classic Sasha spirals & split jumps, fwd charlotte

v. quick footwork, looks out on a mission

crowd is going nuts, on their feet

she looks relieved

John Nicks is looking old

tech: 39.25
PC: 30.37

69.63 currently 2nd

Server not letting me post, maybe this isn't going to work....missed the next girl

phoenix

01-22-2010, 12:37 AM

Bebe Liang

Tango de Roxanne from Moulin Rouge

3 lutz, maybe 2foot, 2 toe

3 flip, fall

spirals, way too long CE, but nice positions

2 axel good

strong footwork, goes well w/ music

she is disappointed

score: 51.98

currenlty 8th

heading to bed now, hope that helped if someone doesn't have access to icenetwork!

BlueSkate

01-22-2010, 12:41 AM

My boyfriend was at a poker night with friends and came back at 2am so drunk he could barely walk. His penance for me staying up to make sure he doesn't choke on his tongue was paying for a subscription to icenetwork, I'll tell him when he wakes up ;).

I was really impressed with Sasha, I wasn't expecting 3 clean jumps! I hope she can do the same for the free skate.

Does anyone know if I'll be able to watch the free from the icenetwork archives on Sunday? I don't think staying up until 7am two days in a row is a good idea!

MQSeries

01-22-2010, 12:42 AM

Thanks for your reports, Phoenix! Happy to hear that Sasha did well and got a standing O.

I'm on the East Coast, and for some reason I've not been able to fall asleep at all. I don't ahve access to icenetwork though.

Schmeck

01-22-2010, 05:47 AM

I don't call those clean jumps at all - the lutz entry was questionable, the toe was landed on the wrong edge. The flip has the wonky take off as well, and the tech spec and judges don't seem to care, do they? I expected as much, but I'm still disappointed that it's same-old, same-old.

Isk8NYC

01-22-2010, 07:00 AM

I watched this on Universal Sports last night. It was pretty exciting, except that it was so late I kept falling asleep. (The guest room bed is pretty comfy.)

I admit that I did sleep through Mirai's entire program. I never even heard her name announced. Have to catch it on replay somewhere.

Edit: Just watched it - incredible. What a charming young lady who can skate for the gold! Wow, clean and poised skating. No iffy landings, beautifully centered spins and she must be made of rubber.

Ashley Wagner is so committed to this campaign and things just didn't go the way she planned. I hated the announcers saying she was disappointed and you could "see it on her face." She was composed and well-behaved, what were they watching?

I think it was a mistake for Ashley to arrive the day of the event, given the time change and schedule. I was so tired watching her, I had to wonder how much of the blips were from exhaustion.

Poor Alissa, at least she's not too far back in the pack going into the Long programs. She just lost control for a moment. Spins were good, though.

I don't understand why Emily Hughes finished so far back. Was it only the jumps or were her spins considered so-so as well? Some of her spins were a little slow.

Rachel Flatt was great - I was thrilled that she placed so very well and held onto her spot in the top tier. That had to be difficult since she skated so early.

Sasha was really awesome and I loved her program and costuming. I didn't expect that complicated footwork, although I knew she was capable. She must have been holding back during the practice runs - it just looked much more challenging during the actual event.

One note: her 3Lutz was really a Flutz...she had negative GOEs but they didn't downgrade it to a Flip.

Loved Sasha's interaction with Nicks. It was comfortable and supportive.

Bebe Liang - she's really changed in the past few years, both her body and her skating. I was rooting for her and I felt so bad when she sat down.

Did anyone else notice that pretty much all the ladies had the same hairstyle? (Up do with a flowered side clip) Guess they found a sponsor who brought in stylists for the event. Good - they all looked wonderful, especially Emily Hughes. Very becoming style for her.

Isk8NYC

01-22-2010, 08:33 AM

SENIOR LADIES SHORT PROGRAM RESULTS:

Place Name TSS TES PCS SS TR PE CH IN Deduction Start
= + + - #
1 Mirai Nagasu, Pasadena FSC 70.06 40.2 29.86 7.43 7.07 7.75 7.57 7.5 0 #7
2 Sasha Cohen, Orange County FSC 69.63 39.26 30.37 7.61 7.14 7.96 7.57 7.68 0 #15
3 Rachael Flatt, Broadmoor SC 69.35 39.39 29.96 7.39 7.18 7.68 7.57 7.64 0 #3
4 Ashley Wagner, SC of Wilmington Inc 62.55 34.68 28.87 7.39 6.96 7.14 7.39 7.21 1 #23
5 Christina Gao, Northern Kentucky SC 56.26 32.71 23.55 6.04 5.61 5.96 6.04 5.79 0 #6
6 Amanda Dobbs, Peninsula SC 56.11 31.83 24.28 6.29 5.64 6.18 6.14 6.11 0 #12
7 Alissa Czisny, Detroit SC 54.18 27.34 27.84 7.29 6.61 6.71 7.11 7.07 1 #4
8 Emily Hughes, SC of New York Inc 53.75 28.75 25 6.61 5.75 6.5 6.18 6.21 0 #18
9 Alexe Gilles, Broadmoor SC 53.54 29.97 23.57 5.96 5.54 5.96 6.07 5.93 0 #9
10 Beatrisa Liang, All Year FSC 51.98 27.68 25.3 6.39 5.89 6.39 6.43 6.54 1 #17
11 Caroline Zhang, All Year FSC 49.94 25.74 25.2 6.39 6 6.25 6.61 6.25 1 #11
12 Kristiene Gong, All Year FSC 48.11 27.02 21.09 5.64 5 5.32 5.29 5.11 0 #22
13 Chelsea Morrow, Greater Grand Rapids FSC 46.35 26.6 19.75 5.11 4.71 5.04 5.11 4.71 0 #8
14 Melissa Bulanhagui, University of Delaware FSC 45.6 23.96 21.64 5.25 5.14 5.39 5.64 5.64 0 #14
15 Becky Bereswill, Houston FSC 44.6 21.18 23.42 5.93 5.64 5.82 5.93 5.96 0 #19
16 Samantha Cesario, SC of New York Inc 44.33 24.51 20.82 5.43 4.89 5.25 5.29 5.18 1 #5
17 Blake Rosenthal, SC of Wilmington Inc 43.43 22.95 21.48 5.64 5.14 5.61 5.29 5.18 1 #20
18 Laney Diggs, All Year FSC 42.87 23.21 20.66 5.39 4.79 5.29 5.25 5.11 1 #13
19 Tatyana Khazova, Broadmoor SC 41.63 22.85 18.78 4.82 4.29 4.75 4.79 4.82 0 #1
20 Kayla Howey, DuPage FSC 35.59 16.06 19.53 5.14 4.68 4.79 4.89 4.93 0 #21
21 Ellie Kawamura, All Year FSC 33.51 16.06 19.45 5.18 4.57 4.71 4.89 4.96 2 #10
22 Rebecca Stern, University of Delaware FSC 32.49 17.43 17.06 4.54 4.07 4.04 4.43 4.25 2 #2
23 Christina-Maria Sperduto, St Paul FSC 31.62 12.59 19.03 4.86 4.46 4.68 4.96 4.82 0 #16

Video Footage:
Mirai Nagasu (http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=e8b95a9d-7466-41b7-9ab7-59ca9e00f0aa.html#u+s+nationals+mirai+nagasu+short +program)
Sasha Cohen (http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=1557c52c-337b-41d3-9a31-97b891f1e434.html#u+s+nationals+sasha+cohen+short+ program)
Rachael Flatt (http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=1ec7e452-266a-4658-a070-99090dea2085.html#u+s+nationals+rachael+flatt+shor t+program)
Ashley Wagner (http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=032b9d52-b97d-4e60-a8a1-1f50ea6b9d01.html#u+s+nationals+ashley+wagner+shor t+program)
Christina Gao (http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=3551b204-675c-4099-9c57-1eb2f55e5143.html#u+s+nationals+christina+gao+shor t+program)

TIP: Before the video ends, close the window or it locks up Win XP / IE browsers.

icenetwork.com has the full event on demand.

Isk8NYC

01-22-2010, 08:36 AM

Senior Ladies Long Program Order:

Start
# Name
Warmup Group
1 Kayla Howey, DuPage FSC
2 Christina-Maria Sperduto, St Paul FSC
3 Rebecca Stern, University of Delaware FSC
4 Laney Diggs, All Year FSC
5 Ellie Kawamura, All Year FSC
6 Tatyana Khazova, Broadmoor SC
Warmup Group
7 Melissa Bulanhagui, University of Delaware FSC
8 Blake Rosenthal, SC of Wilmington Inc
9 Chelsea Morrow, Greater Grand Rapids FSC
10 Kristiene Gong, All Year FSC
11 Becky Bereswill, Houston FSC
12 Samantha Cesario, SC of New York Inc
Warmup Group
13 Caroline Zhang, All Year FSC
14 Beatrisa Liang, All Year FSC
15 Alissa Czisny, Detroit SC
16 Emily Hughes, SC of New York Inc
17 Alexe Gilles, Broadmoor SC
Warmup Group
18 Amanda Dobbs, Peninsula SC
19 Christina Gao, Northern Kentucky SC
20 Ashley Wagner, SC of Wilmington Inc
21 Sasha Cohen, Orange County FSC
22 Rachael Flatt, Broadmoor SC
23 Mirai Nagasu, Pasadena FSC

mdvask8r

01-22-2010, 09:26 AM

I think it was a mistake for Ashley to arrive the day of the event, given the time change and schedule. I was so tired watching her, I had to wonder how much of the blips were from exhaustion.

Thanks for posting the links !! Re Ashley- she was in Spokane early enough to watch brother Austin skate the Novice Mens event. Did she leave in between? Where did you hear she had just arrived?
Other than the fall on the 3Lutz, I thought she was awesome. Can't wait to see her come charging in on the long!

GO ASHLEY!!

Isk8NYC

01-22-2010, 09:31 AM

The announcers said that Ashley had arrived the day/morning of the competition. They said "it's 2am her (ET) time" so she must be tired and she admitted in the after-skate interview that she found herself starting to doze off while waiting to skate. She had to jog around to keep herself awake.

Other than the fall, her spins were a little slow, which is out of character for her. Hopefully, they all have clean skates in the LP and make the judges sweat out the choice. The bigger issue is the point spread - the top 3 ladies are separated by only two points. Ashley's over six points below third place. That's a big gap to make up in the LP.

mdvask8r

01-22-2010, 09:36 AM

Hmmm, I wonder if Ashley went all the way home, or just to relatives in Western Washington.
It's certainly going to be an exciting day watching them fight it out tomorrow!! Hope it brings out the very best in every skater.

jazzpants

01-22-2010, 09:38 AM

SENIOR LADIES SHORT PROGRAM RESULTS:

Place Name TSS TES PCS SS TR PE CH IN Deduction Start
= + + - #
1 Mirai Nagasu, Pasadena FSC 70.06 40.2 29.86 7.43 7.07 7.75 7.57 7.5 0 #7YAAAAY!!!

2 Sasha Cohen, Orange County FSC 69.63 39.26 30.37 7.61 7.14 7.96 7.57 7.68 0 #15Sasha, Sasha, Sasha!!! :mrgreen: :bow: (WELCOME BACK!!!)

3 Rachael Flatt, Broadmoor SC 69.35 39.39 29.96 7.39 7.18 7.68 7.57 7.64 0 #3YAAAAY!!!

7 Alissa Czisny, Detroit SC 54.18 27.34 27.84 7.29 6.61 6.71 7.11 7.07 1 #4
8 Emily Hughes, SC of New York Inc 53.75 28.75 25 6.61 5.75 6.5 6.18 6.21 0 #18
10 Beatrisa Liang, All Year FSC 51.98 27.68 25.3 6.39 5.89 6.39 6.43 6.54 1 #17
Allissa: :frus:!!!
Awwww for Emily and Bebe!!! :cry:

Mel On Ice

01-22-2010, 09:54 AM

I didn't get Emily so far down either, but I did find her footwork slow and tedious, as opposed to Tara's assertion that she was "taking her time with all her elements to show her artistic side". Was a jump downgraded?

Bebe looks so bored with it all, I wonder if this is it for her.

Did I miss Angie Maxwell withdrawing?

RachelSk8er

01-22-2010, 10:02 AM

Did anyone else notice that pretty much all the ladies had the same hairstyle? (Up do with a flowered side clip) Guess they found a sponsor who brought in stylists for the event. Good - they all looked wonderful, especially Emily Hughes. Very becoming style for her.

Do they actually bring in a stylist, or is this just a skating hair trend? For the most part, I've been wearing my hair like this for a few years now for freestyle (bun with a side clip and maybe the "bump" on top versus slicking it all down). I HATE sloppy pony-tails flopping all over the place, they're distracting. A lot of the higher level synchro teams have also been ditching the god-awful fake hair everyone was so into for much of the past decade or the scrunchies around the buns and going with this look, too.

I only watched through Marai before I had to call it a night. I loved Rachael's program, she was just so fun to watch. Marai's jumps and spins were great, and I think she's so much more elegant now than the little kid we saw a few years ago, but I thought the complete package of her program was kind of boring in comparison. Maybe it's just that I automatically tune out any time I hear the (painfully overused) Pirates music.

Isk8NYC

01-22-2010, 10:16 AM

At some competition last year, someone said that the skaters had their hair and makeup done professionally. I assume it's the same this year. Could it be a coincidence that they all decided on the same style for the same event. I don't recall seeing a single perky ponytail in the event.

If it was a styling crew, they are really talented because each skater's hair style was a little different (Emily Hughes had french braids, Sasha's a ballet knot) and went extremely well with their costumes. The clips looked to be perfect matches in most cases; maybe the skaters provided them to the stylists.

BlueSkate

01-22-2010, 11:00 AM

IceSk8r725

01-22-2010, 11:20 AM

Was it just me or did Sasha look REALLY thin? Before the 6 min warmup they showed a close up and you could see almost every bone jutting out of her body. eek. hope she's okay!

NDsk8

01-22-2010, 11:29 AM

Isk8NYC

01-22-2010, 11:37 AM

Sasha was really awesome and I loved her program and costuming. I didn't expect that complicated footwork, although I knew she was capable. She must have been holding back during the practice runs - it just looked much more challenging during the actual event.

One note: her 3Lutz was really a Flutz...she had negative GOEs but they didn't downgrade it to a Flip.

Hmmmm, I saw it is slow mo, and did not see the flutz you are talking about. It wasn't pretty, but I don't think it was a flutz.
Check out this analysis from Universal Sports/NBC Olympics:
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=55ccdf72-c053-4a86-b554-df74090b381a.html#u+s+nationals+ladies+short+progr am+wrap

Scott Hamilton points out that Sasha very clearly flutzed (rolled to an inside edge), but the scores were -GOE, not a downgrade. That's bad because it fuels the critics' fires. Judging has to be consistent. Hopefully, they were.

Up close, she does look thin, but not in an unhealthy way. More "fit and trim" with some muscle behind the thinness.

Mel On Ice

01-22-2010, 11:44 AM

hubby will be disappointed her SOI boobs are gone

Isk8NYC

01-22-2010, 11:46 AM

hubby will be disappointed her SOI boobs are goneHave you ever read Katerina Witt's pseudo-biography? She remarks on Sasha being flat-chested several times, lol. She's definitely built for dancing or skating.

sk8ryellow

01-22-2010, 12:02 PM

It sucks that Caroline Zhang crapped up her program, she had so much hope!

Skittl1321

01-22-2010, 12:10 PM

Scott Hamilton points out that Sasha very clearly flutzed (rolled to an inside edge), but the scores were -GOE, not a downgrade. That's bad because it fuels the critics' fires. Judging has to be consistent. Hopefully, they were.

I think they were pretty consistently not calling flutz/lip on many of the skaters :) For a US tech caller to make an edge call it has to be egregious.

That's why US skaters are always in for a shock when they get to an international panel that actually calls it.

Isk8NYC

01-22-2010, 12:14 PM

I think they were pretty consistently not calling flutz/lip on many of the skaters :) For a US tech caller to make an edge call it has to be egregious.

That's why US skaters are always in for a shock when they get to an international panel that actually calls it.Well, good they were consistent, bad that they weren't keeping with the international standards. Thanks for the info.

BlueSkate

01-22-2010, 12:32 PM

I think they were pretty consistently not calling flutz/lip on many of the skaters :)

Yeah, there were a few questionable edges that don't seem to have been called up. Nagasu got a ! but her lutz was one of the worst, you don't need to slow it down or zoom in to see it's an inside edge.

RachelSk8er

01-22-2010, 02:47 PM

Was it just me or did Sasha look REALLY thin? Before the 6 min warmup they showed a close up and you could see almost every bone jutting out of her body. eek. hope she's okay!

I thought the same thing when I saw a pic of her layback--her legs looked really thin compared to how they used to look (back when she was still competing, not just when she was in SOI). Not that they were ever huge, but you get what I mean.

Isk8NYC

01-22-2010, 04:30 PM

Universal Sports is re-airing the Ladies SP on television in about 15 minutes at 5:30pm ET.

I get this channel over the air as my NBC affiliate's "##.2" channel. DirecTV doesn't carry it, unfortunately. If you have an antenna and converter box, scan your channels for the signal.

daisies

01-22-2010, 04:39 PM

A flutz -- or any jump, for that matter -- is only "downgraded" if it's short of rotation. A change of edge before take off is not a "downgrade," it's an "edge" call -- either "e" or "!" -- and the judges are then supposed to reduce the GOE from what they would have given it without the edge call. But that's much different than a "downgrade," where the jump is reduced to a lower-revolution version of itself and given fewer points. Landing on the inside edge, etc., does not merit a downgrade if the jump is all the way around; that's for the judging panel to handle with GOE.

Also, the call on flutzes and lips always goes with skater intent, which is why the protocol will always say 3Lz in the case of a flutz, with the e or ! added after. If it was actually called a 3F, a skater's later, actual 3F wouldn't count at all since you can't repeat a jump in the short.

That said, I am surprised Sasha didn't get an edge call, but then not so much when you consider that Ashley didn't get one either, and hers is the most egregious of the bunch. Yes, at least they were consistent!

RachelSk8er

01-22-2010, 05:00 PM

Also, the call on flutzes and lips always goes with skater intent, which is why the protocol will always say 3Lz in the case of a flutz, with the e or ! added after. If it was actually called a 3F, a skater's later, actual 3F wouldn't count at all since you can't repeat a jump in the short.

Same thing would happen in most long programs at just about any level. Generally a jump can be repeated but only as part of a combo or sequence. So if you're a senior lady and you have 2 triple flips (one in combo) and a triple lutz and the lutz was flutzed and called a flip, you wouldn't get credit for it at all.

daisies

01-22-2010, 06:40 PM

Same thing would happen in most long programs at just about any level. Generally a jump can be repeated but only as part of a combo or sequence. So if you're a senior lady and you have 2 triple flips (one in combo) and a triple lutz and the lutz was flutzed and called a flip, you wouldn't get credit for it at all.

Yes, exactly. Thank you for expanding on my thought.

As a judge, I always feel like I have to defend judges, referees and technical panels, and the easiest way to do that is to simply point out what the actual rules are. :)

NoVa Sk8r

01-22-2010, 09:49 PM

Did I miss Angie Maxwell withdrawing?She withdrew because of a back injury. Too bad. (And she has the most amazing double axel!)

Schmeck

01-23-2010, 05:56 AM

Yes, exactly. Thank you for expanding on my thought.

As a judge, I always feel like I have to defend judges, referees and technical panels, and the easiest way to do that is to simply point out what the actual rules are. :)

I know the rules too - and was disappointed that flutzes were not marked as such, and that the judges did not deduct from their GOEs either. Bad consistency sucks.

daisies

01-23-2010, 12:54 PM

I know the rules too - and was disappointed that flutzes were not marked as such, and that the judges did not deduct from their GOEs either. Bad consistency sucks.
If you know the rules, then you know that judges are only required to give a negative GOE if the technical panel gives an edge call -- e. You know the judges are not required to give a negative GOE if the jump gets an edge warning -- ! And you know those points are moot because the technical panel didn't do either, so the judges didn't have to be in the minuses.

Some judges did reduce the GOE, perhaps because they saw the flutz or for whatever reason. The others didn't give a negative GOE but may have seen the flutz, started at a higher GOE and reduced from there for the flaws to end up at 0. But again, a negative GOE is only mandatory if that jump received an e.

I understand being disappointed, but the judges did follow the rules. Once they do that, they are free to evaluate the skater as they see fit. If every judge saw a program the exact same way, we'd only need one judge. Or better yet, a robot! ;)

Schmeck

01-23-2010, 05:01 PM

Some judges did reduce the GOE, perhaps because they saw the flutz or for whatever reason. The others didn't give a negative GOE but may have seen the flutz, started at a higher GOE and reduced from there for the flaws to end up at 0. But again, a negative GOE is only mandatory if that jump received an e.

Started at a higher GOE? And here I was, thinking all the skaters started off on equal footing, at a GOE of 0...

As Skittl1321 pointed out - the US skaters look so surprised when they get called on their poor entry edges at international competitions. I think the international panels make sure they get called, just to show how pompous we are here, thinking we're above a proper lutz edge. Who are we fooling?

daisies

01-23-2010, 05:11 PM

Started at a higher GOE? And here I was, thinking all the skaters started off on equal footing, at a GOE of 0...

You're killin' me here. You don't know the rules.

They start at 0 and then there are clear bullet points that can raise the GOE from 0; the judges reduce from there. So if they fulfill two bullets, the GOE rises to +1, and then a flaw that might merit a -1, like a non-called flutz, brings it back to 0. I don't know if that's what happened in Sasha's case -- I'm obviously not in the judges' brains -- but it's a possibility. It's also a possibility that they didn't see the flutz -- they didn't have the same angle we did as TV viewers.

Do your research. I'm done spoon-feeding it to you.

Schmeck

01-23-2010, 05:12 PM

Cut and pasted from an ISU document:

1. The Technical Panel will use the sign “ e ” (edge) for severe cases of wrong take-off edge (long
wrong edge, no correct edge at all etc.); in these cases GOE of the Judges must be reduced by –1 to –
3 and must be negative.
2. The Technical Panel will use the sign “ ! ” (attention) in cases when a wrong take-off edge is short
or not so obvious; in these cases the decision on the GOE is at the discretion of every Judge.
Milan, Ottavio Cinquanta, President
June 30, 2008
Lausanne, Fredi

So, when it was obvious that Cohen flutzed (and I didn't need close-up slow-mo for that, which the judges and techs have) there should have at least been a ! and when she landed the double toe on the wrong edge, that should have eliminated any GOE over a +1.

Wonder how they're going to score her tonight? Does she even need to skate?

daisies

01-23-2010, 05:25 PM

So, when it was obvious that Cohen flutzed (and I didn't need close-up slow-mo for that, which the judges and techs have) ...

Once again, failure to know the rules. The judges do not have slo-mo replay. Judges can only see it again in real time.

Keep 'em coming, I'll be here all night. ;)

FSWer

01-23-2010, 06:20 PM

I saw Sasha today during the Short Program. I must say that the girl who is now 25 years of age skated clean. It was like she had never even been off the ice!!! I also saw Rachael Flatt and Ashley Wagner for the first time on TV. They had the skaters in this "Truth Booth" after their skate,(which I'm presuming is a place they go to tell Fans their true thoughts on TV. It must be something new), and they both sound like very,very nice skaters who talk to Fans. As a matter of fact. All the skaters have shown how nice they really are.

Isk8NYC

01-23-2010, 06:25 PM

icnetwork is about to show the first two groups in the Ladies Long Program event. Warmups are on right now.

NBC is going to show the last two groups live on television starting around 8:47pm ET

Senior Ladies Long Program Order:

Start
# Name

*** FIRST TWO GROUPS TO BE SHOWN ON ICENETWORK LIVE ***
Warmup Group
1 Kayla Howey, DuPage FSC
2 Christina-Maria Sperduto, St Paul FSC
3 Rebecca Stern, University of Delaware FSC
4 Laney Diggs, All Year FSC
5 Ellie Kawamura, All Year FSC
6 Tatyana Khazova, Broadmoor SC

Warmup Group
7 Melissa Bulanhagui, University of Delaware FSC
8 Blake Rosenthal, SC of Wilmington Inc
9 Chelsea Morrow, Greater Grand Rapids FSC
10 Kristiene Gong, All Year FSC
11 Becky Bereswill, Houston FSC
12 Samantha Cesario, SC of New York Inc

*** LAST TWO GROUPS TO BE SHOWN ON NBC LIVE ***

Warmup Group
13 Caroline Zhang, All Year FSC
14 Beatrisa Liang, All Year FSC
15 Alissa Czisny, Detroit SC
16 Emily Hughes, SC of New York Inc
17 Alexe Gilles, Broadmoor SC

Warmup Group
18 Amanda Dobbs, Peninsula SC
19 Christina Gao, Northern Kentucky SC
20 Ashley Wagner, SC of Wilmington Inc
21 Sasha Cohen, Orange County FSC
22 Rachael Flatt, Broadmoor SC
23 Mirai Nagasu, Pasadena FSC

Kayla Howey just withdrew from the competition during the warmup.
First skater is Christina-Maria Sperduto, St Paul FSC
She looks a little slow and nervous - maybe having to skate earlier than expected threw her off her game.

FSWer

01-23-2010, 06:32 PM

icnetwork is about to show the first two groups in the Ladies Long Program event. Warmups are on right now.

NBC is going to show the last two groups live on television starting around 8:47pm ET

Kayla Howey just withdrew from the competition during the warmup.

If NBC. is Broadcasting it. Which it does here at 9:00. They better be letting them Broadcast it...right.....and that's the WHOLE THING LIVE!!! As a good majority of people's browers can't access the site. The should have it on both. All of it. Not a H/A/J. BTW. I'm not familar with her. Who's Kayla? Does she have a site? Also,could someone please post the link to photos from the competition? All Disciplines. Thanks.

Isk8NYC

01-23-2010, 07:00 PM

Ellie Kawamura just skated - a little slow, something wrong with the triple toe loop (had to be done in combination?) so she's not going to get full credit for that jump.

Awww, that's nice - Laney Diggs (prior skater, same club) just came over to give Ellie a teddy bear.

Score 69.82 103.33 - Currently in third place.

Place Name Score
1 Christina-Maria Sperduto, St Paul FSC 78.27
2 Laney Diggs, All Year FSC 71.51
3 Ellie Kawamura, All Year FSC 69.82
4 Rebecca Stern, University of Delaware FSC 64.73

Isk8NYC

01-23-2010, 07:09 PM

Tatyana Khazova, Broadmoor SC - opening jumps were nice. Singled one jump(3flip?), sat down on another (3Lutz?). Spins were slow and one almost died before a change foot with very slow rotations.

Commentator remarked that she has a habit of toeing in with a bent free knee on flips and lutzes.

She looks happy to be there, in any case.

Score: LP 67.26 ; total 108.89 - third place. Higher than I expected, given the deduction and the singled jump.

End of group 1 - group 2 on the ice for warmup.

Isk8NYC

01-23-2010, 07:22 PM

Nice skate from Melissa Bulanhagui. Had to fight for the landing on 3flip, but it looked okay on the small screen, lol. Scores are taking a long time.

Score: LP 83.61 / Total 129.21 - Takes over first place.

FSWer

01-23-2010, 07:27 PM

Isk8NYC

01-23-2010, 07:31 PM

Blake Rosenthal - very pretty and elegant. Lost the landing on one jump - underrotated, almost face-planted. Ouch, second fall. I'm waiting for the music to change tempo - I think I'm out of luck. Same slow cadence all the way through. Pretty but not memorable.

Score: lp 68.99 total 112.42 - third place 2.0 deduction for the falls.

Next up: Chelsea Morrow

Isk8NYC

01-23-2010, 07:36 PM

Isk8NYC

01-23-2010, 07:45 PM

Kristiene Gong - blew first two jumps, looked disoriented. Seems to be back on track now. Crowd's cheering her. Nailed second double axel...sat down on 3lutz...nice spiral sequence. OH NO! She just fell backward on a gliding edge. she's okay - got back up and kept going. Good for her!

Needs a bit more "attack" in her program - the music was there, but the skating didn't keep up.

LP: 64.81
Total: 112.92

Place: 3rd place

Results : http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2010/64740/results.html

Isk8NYC

01-23-2010, 07:54 PM

I'm really liking Tara as a commentator. Quiet, sharp, knowledgeable. Not at all annoying. (I say as I check the clock for NBC's start time and Scott squealing.)

Becky Bereswill - elegant, tall drink of water from Texas. FINALLY! A skater who closes her legs in the K&C area. Very nice.

Singled the first jump in a combo, so it ended up being a single-double.
Everything else was good, but s-l-o-w music and skating.

83.36 - takes over second place

Isk8NYC

01-23-2010, 08:02 PM

Samantha Cesario Nice jumps - clean and high. Spins were good and I like the music transition mid-spin. Is she the skater who did this in the short program as well?

LP 74.87

Total 119.20

Place 3rd place (That's a revolving door huh?)

Place Name TSS TES PCS SS TR PE CH IN Deduction Start
= + + - #
1 Melissa Bulanhagui, University of Delaware FSC 83.61 44.87 38.74 5.07 4.54 4.96 4.93 4.71 0 #7
2 Becky Bereswill, Houston FSC 83.36 40.87 43.49 5.54 5.36 5.21 5.57 5.5 1 #11
3 Christina-Maria Sperduto, St Paul FSC 78.27 42.15 36.12 4.75 4.04 4.5 4.79 4.5 0 #2
4 Samantha Cesario, SC of New York Inc 74.87 31.89 42.98 5.43 4.86 5.71 5.57 5.29 0 #12
5 Laney Diggs, All Year FSC 71.51 35.37 37.14 4.68 4.5 4.64 4.71 4.68 1 #4
6 Ellie Kawamura, All Year FSC 69.82 35.6 36.22 4.89 4.14 4.36 4.61 4.64 2 #5
7 Blake Rosenthal, SC of Wilmington Inc 68.99 30.5 40.49 5.46 4.82 5.07 4.89 5.07 2 #8
8 Tatyana Khazova, Broadmoor SC 67.26 31.74 36.52 4.79 4.54 4.57 4.5 4.43 1 #6
9 Chelsea Morrow, Greater Grand Rapids FSC 65.38 27.83 37.55 5 4.68 4.54 4.79 4.46 0 #9
10 Kristiene Gong, All Year FSC 64.81 32.44 35.37 4.75 4.5 3.96 4.68 4.21 3 #10
11 Rebecca Stern, University of Delaware FSC 64.73 29.06 36.67 4.82 4.39 4.57 4.71 4.43 1 #3
Caroline Zhang, All Year FSC #13
Beatrisa Liang, All Year FSC #14
Alissa Czisny, Detroit SC #15
Emily Hughes, SC of New York Inc #16
Alexe Gilles, Broadmoor SC #17
Amanda Dobbs, Peninsula SC #18
Christina Gao, Northern Kentucky SC #19
Ashley Wagner, SC of Wilmington Inc #20
Sasha Cohen, Orange County FSC #21
Rachael Flatt, Broadmoor SC #22
Mirai Nagasu, Pasadena FSC #23

Withdrawn:
Kayla Howey, DuPage FSC #1

Let's hear it for the sweepers! My kids are dying to be sweepers next year at nats.

Switching over to NBC - might be back to do the last two groups.

*** LAST TWO GROUPS TO BE SHOWN ON NBC LIVE ***

Warmup Group
13 Caroline Zhang, All Year FSC
14 Beatrisa Liang, All Year FSC
15 Alissa Czisny, Detroit SC
16 Emily Hughes, SC of New York Inc
17 Alexe Gilles, Broadmoor SC

Warmup Group
18 Amanda Dobbs, Peninsula SC
19 Christina Gao, Northern Kentucky SC
20 Ashley Wagner, SC of Wilmington Inc
21 Sasha Cohen, Orange County FSC
22 Rachael Flatt, Broadmoor SC
23 Mirai Nagasu, Pasadena FSC

flying~camel

01-23-2010, 08:12 PM

Chelsea Morrow skippped one jump entirely -didn't even get past the takeoff. Doubled another jump. Spins were nice - beautiful layback into haircutter. Footwork was slow, not really challenging. Too bad.

LP: 65.38; total 111.73 - fourth place so far

She tends to get REALLY nervous in competition but she seemed to hold it together pretty well, considering. We're still proud of her :)

Isk8NYC

01-23-2010, 08:15 PM

She tends to get REALLY nervous in competition but she seemed to hold it together pretty well, considering. We're still proud of her :)
Awww, that's too bad. Glad you're proud of her - she's skating at nats!

liz_on_ice

01-23-2010, 08:16 PM

Let's hear it for the sweepers! My kids are dying to be sweepers next year at nats. good luck to them!

daisies

01-23-2010, 08:23 PM

I'm really liking Tara as a commentator. Quiet, sharp, knowledgeable. Not at all annoying. (I say as I check the clock for NBC's start time and Scott squealing.)

I like that she stays quiet and doesn't squeal like Scott, but she said a few things that weren't right, like skaters need to hold one of their spirals for 6 seconds (true only if that are going for that feature) and that a double axel is mandatory in the long (an axel-type jump is mandatory, doesn't have to be double). A few things grated on me, but ITA that she at least doesn't squeal! :)

MQSeries

01-23-2010, 09:17 PM

I'm sending out good vibe to Sasah.

GO SASHA !!!!!

MQSeries

01-23-2010, 10:00 PM

I don't have a T.V., but it doesn't look like Sasha will make the team since Wagner is leading her right now with Flatt and Mirai yet to skate. :( Regardless, I consider it was a successful comeback for Sasha. She showed up, competed and proved that her comeback wasn't a joke.

jazzpants

01-23-2010, 10:22 PM

Sasha, Sasha, Sasha!!!! AUGH!!! Two footed a bunch of jumps and then a boot splat on one in the middle. AUUUUUUGH!!! :cry:

Well, Rachael is definitely going. But it's gonna be tight as to whether or not Mirai or Ashley goes!!! My money is on Mirai!!! :)

climbsk8

01-23-2010, 10:37 PM

Rachael - it's nice to see you skating to exciting music. Congrats.
Mirai - Welcome back. We missed you last year. Enjoy your trip to Vancouver!
Sasha - Thanks for creating a lot of buzz. Sorry you can't do it at the Olympics. Worlds maybe?!?

NBC Reporter Andrea Joyce - WILL YOU PLEASE STOP CUTTING SKATERS OFF MID-SENTENCE SO YOU CAN ASK ANOTHER QUESTION, OR WORSE, FINISH THEIR SENTENCES FOR THEM? YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS IN THE T.V. BUSINESS!!!!!! WE DON'T GIVE A CRAP WHAT YOU SAY! WE WANT TO HEAR WHAT THE SKATERS HAVE TO SAY! DID YOU LEARN NOTHING IN JOURNALISM SCHOOL???? JUST SHUT UP AND HOLD THE MICROPHONE, OK?

Sorry, I had to rant. :evil: She made me so mad at the end of the broadcast I scared my cat away.

FSWer

01-23-2010, 10:37 PM

I heard that Miral was going with Rachael. Though I don't understand about what there fighting over. Usually a fight happens if there was a tie,etc. They already know though the top 2-3 winners though. But I surely hope they pick Ashley.

Mel On Ice

01-23-2010, 10:44 PM

I'm gambling on Ashley over Mirai

MQSeries

01-23-2010, 10:49 PM

Awww Sasha. It's tough having your first major competition in 4 years to be Nationals. Too bad she wasn't able to do other competitions during the season. Congrats on the great effort. Nothing to be down about, and you walk away this week with a medal :)

Ashley...if only she didn't fall on the flutz. To paraphrase Get Smart agent 86, "She missed it by that much."

Mirai - Yippe, she made the Olympic team. She's going to be a star. She has the face and the personality that advertisers loved. Just need to stop any self-negativity talk when talking to the press.

Alissa Cziny - 11th place LP. Ouch. Honey, it's time to retire the competitive thing. You're just not cut out for it. This has got to be the biggest drop for a defending National Champion ever.

Schmeck

01-24-2010, 06:58 AM

Once again, failure to know the rules. The judges do not have slo-mo replay. Judges can only see it again in real time.

Keep 'em coming, I'll be here all night. ;)

Thank you - why don't they have slow motion? I can do it on my computer, why aren't they getting that access?

I admit that I've had more experience with IJS synchro than singles - seems to be a lot of wiggle room in the way singles is scored. That's what bothers me the most, as it just smells of the old 'corrupt' system when they don't call things.

Isk8NYC

01-24-2010, 09:04 AM

I'm gambling on Ashley over MiraiI was just thinking the same thing. I'm still ROOTING FOR RYAN Bradley for the Men's Olympic team and now I'm hoping for Ashley to be named to the Women's. (Meaning, an opportunity allows them to move up from Alternate.)

I watched the NBC coverage last night, but I was so tired, I kept falling asleep. At least I was able to rewind and review on NBC (thanks to my DVR) so I didn't miss anything.

I am thrilled for Rachael Flatt - she'll make us proud, I think. Consistent, confident, and cute.

The NBC announcers said that Mirai Nagasu doesn't believe this is her time and now she's been thrust into the Olympics mix four years too early. Bad news, good news, who knows? She's a beautiful skater and I hope she does well, but if she really doesn't want to go, she should take a pass.

I'm heartbroken for Ashley Wagner. She really wanted this so badly and it just slipped through her fingers, well, her lutzes. I think there's more anguish in losing by a hair than by blowing it completely.

Sasha as an also-ran, what a shame. I really felt that the long program just wasn't as well-rehearsed as her wonderful short program. I give her a lot of credit for staying in the character all the way to the end.

Alissa really struggled but I'm glad she didn't give up after the first setback in the program. Her spins were exquisite to watch, but every time she jumped, I gasped because I was sure she was going to fall. There's something about her in-air position that just looks WRONG.

Bebe Liang - potential unrealized. The announcers kept remarking on what a jumper she is, but I don't see that at all. Sure, she's got guts to jump, jump, jump, but they were sloppy jumps. Her technique is the same as it was back when she was on that reality show "Ice Dreams." I expected more maturity and skill by now.

Too bad there were so many errors and falls. I would have loved to see everyone skate clean so there could be some real comparison of technical ability and artistry.

herniated

01-24-2010, 10:01 AM

Caroline Zhang...what are all your thoughts on her? My question is WHY havn't any of her coaches been able to 'fix' her jump technique???? Has she had any coaching changes recently? If not, jmho but she needs one. She looked during her free skate as if she were going to just quit in the middle of it.

I remember with Sarah Hughes she used to do a flutz with the high leg action too (forgive me if I'm thinking of the wrong skater) and that was able to be fixed. As it can be fixed with many of the skaters. Unless Caroline is resistant to the change Idk.

Isk8NYC

01-24-2010, 10:34 AM

It's really hard to break a bad habit in skating. Every time a skater does something improperly, it takes ten perfect attempts to correct the muscle memory that develops. It's not just elite skaters, it happens at all levels with elements as simple as a swizzle. Once you get in the habit of doing it wrong, it takes pure concentration and force of will to break the habit.

I've taught skaters that had a poor spin entry, for example. They can *sort of* do the scratch spin, but it's uncentered and out of control. So, we go back to the basics, even doing the scratch-to-a-stop entry to correct it. I'll actually ask them not to practice the move between lessons if it's really wrong because failed attempts reinforce the bad habit.

We get to the point where they can do the spin in isolation and think we've licked the problem. Until they try to do it in a program - nerves, concentration and positions can set a skater back to working just off of muscle memory and screw up the spin in the program.

I think the resolution to do it correctly has to come mainly from the skater, so a coaching change only helps if the skater is willing to listen to the new coach and force herself/himself to do the element correctly every single time to break the habit.

I'll give Tara Lipinski kudos for pointing out skaters' habits during the US Nationals. She called out one skater who constantly uses a bent picking knee - a habit I despise - and cited why it was important to break the habit.

Mel On Ice

01-24-2010, 12:59 PM

ITA regarding Tara Lipinski as a commentator: she shared extensive knowledge without excessive yakking. She's got a pleasant voice for the job, and I enjoyed a female critic that doesn't gush like Bezic.

herniated

01-24-2010, 01:19 PM

I hear you Isk8NYC. And yes, I know first hand about bad habits and the difficulty in changing it. That's why I said too that maybe she is resistant to the change. It just doesn't seem to be getting any better whenever I see her perform. And it looks like her mentals are not in a good place. It's sad to me.

anyway...just wondering if she had/has had a coaching change. Sometimes hearing it in a different way helps.

ibreakhearts66

01-24-2010, 10:48 PM

Caroline had a brief coaching change to Charlene Wong but went back to Coach Li. I don't think there's any way for her to fix her jump technique. It seems like she has no idea how to properly use her edge. Changing her technique would, I think, require starting from complete scratch. Then what? By the time she built back up to triples, IF she's even capable of landing properly executed triples without relying on the free leg and over-twisting the upper body for rotation, there will be a whole new crop of skaters. I honestly think it would take years to undo her technique and I still don't know that she'd be capable of landing a "normal" triple.

MQSeries

01-24-2010, 11:00 PM

I like Ashley's LP and her speed and attack on the ice. However, I find it kind of annoying when she did the fists pumpings at the end when she two-footed three of her triples. It would've made sense if she was skated perfectly but she wasn't. She seems to have an issue with two-footing triples.

I can possibly see why a picky technical caller would downgrade Mirai's second 3lutz and last 3toe, but there was no way in h*ll that the 3toe in her 2a-3t was under rotated. That was just wrong to downgrade that jump.

I could not get into Flatt's LP performance at all. It was just blah to me. She did do a lively SSL in the SP though, which suprised me.

I wonder where would Sasha would've finish had she skated clean. She was lovely, but the program was not as COP friendly as the other three girls.

Emily Hughes. I wonder if she really thought she had a realistic chance of making the Olympic team when she decided to make her comeback this year. Her skating has a heaviness to it that's not attractive. I'm sure this is it for her skating-wise, and she'll concentrate on school from now on.

It must be very frustrating for Caroline Zhang. Just three years ago she was touted as the next big thing (and also Mirai to a somewhat lesser extent) and now she finished far away from the podium.

RachelSk8er

01-25-2010, 08:01 AM

Speaking of bad technique, why hasn't anyone fixed Rachael's shoulders? All you hear commentators mentioning is the strong technique she has, but this kind of goes unnoticed. At times they get up to her ears. I really noticed it for the first time watching the exhibition last night. It was probably more obvious there since it was a show program and not jump jump jump spin spin spin, and in her short you don't notice as much because when she's not jumping/spinning she's dancing around. I love her and all, but she needs to fix this if she really wants to compete with the top Asian skaters.

I wonder if she has done any ice dancing at all (which is the best way to fix it), because it doesn't look like it. Does anyone know? Sometimes you can tell who has and who hasn't (Alissa is a good example, look at her posture/carriage...my coach actually used to go out to BG for dance partnering and he took her and her sister through tests when they were younger). But sometimes these freestyle skaters do dance because their coaches make them, and fly through the tests and pass because the steps are good enough, but they never really learn to skate like a dancer in a way they can carry over to benefit their freestyle. We have a few novice/jr skaters like that at my rink--they have their gold dances but you'd never know by the way they skate freestyle.

I guess I have no room to talk, I have a HUGE problem with this that I've been trying to fix/correct the past few years (from so many years of synchro and skating with my arms up), but I'm not a senior lady who just won a national championship and is going to the Olympics.

mdvask8r

01-25-2010, 08:29 AM

Yes!! I SO agree about Rachael. She has very consistant jumps, yes, but her skating just leaves me cold. The no-neck look is a flaw I can't get past. So unattractive -- ruins her lines and makes her look awkward.

Wish her coaches would Please address this. Wish the judges would start dinging her for it so she would get serious about fixing it.

IceSk8r725

01-25-2010, 09:58 AM

Does anyone know when the rest of the freeskate will be added to ice network?!

sk8ryellow

01-25-2010, 12:35 PM

Mainemom

01-25-2010, 12:58 PM

Was anyone else really impressed w/ Samantha Cesario? I saw her in practice yesterday & she caught my eye. She has amazing polish/presentation & skates w/ a real passion and abandon. And, very good jump technique! Only 16--I hope she'll stay around for a long time--she could be one to watch for the future.

I was at a family wedding this weekend and we have a lot of skaters on the bride's side, except for the bride's step-mother who told us that her niece was going to Spokane for some skating thing and was it a big deal? Turns out Samantha is her niece! We were all jumping up and down that one of our extended family had made it that far but we couldn't really get her aunt to understand why it was such a big deal! I think she finished 16th or so but skated very well. I hope she is able to keep it up and will be around for years to come.

Schmeck

01-25-2010, 02:42 PM

Glad to know I'm not the only one who is distracted by Flatt's upper body position - especially the stooped forward, raised shoulders. She thrusts out her chin a bit too - which makes it so amazing that she can landed those jumps! She kind of reminds me of Timothy Goebel.

The commentator mentioned last night that the judges do get slo-mo, and that they downgraded the jumps - of course that's not their call, but now the whole TV casual audience thinks they do.

daisies

01-25-2010, 03:01 PM

The commentator mentioned last night that the judges do get slo-mo, and that they downgraded the jumps - of course that's not their call, but now the whole TV casual audience thinks they do.
It bugs the crap out of me that Scott Hamilton's ridiculous outrage in SLC is one of the main reasons we have IJS now, and now he's one of the reasons people don't understand it, because he can't even explain it properly. Ugh.

To answer your question from earlier, judges don't get slo-mo because there's no reason for them to get it. Slo-mo is only necessary for technical calls, and, as we've established, judges don't make technical calls. The quality of an element -- which a judge is responsible for -- need only be judged in real time.

RachelSk8er

01-25-2010, 03:02 PM

I like the headline on icenetwork "Sashas comeback hits dead end" they nailed that one, I knew her comeback was a mistake, shes has been and in my opinion ruined herself from being a great skater to being against the other really good girls as an ok skater.

I don't think it changed the opinion of her being a great skater, I think it just confirmed what we all knew already--that she can't skate two spectacular programs in the same competition. Coming back after not competing for 4 years (while a judging system that was brand new when she retired evolved quite a bit) and placing 4th is still an accomplishment. I didn't see her making the Olympic team, even after the short.

MQSeries

01-25-2010, 05:11 PM

I don't feel that Sasha's 4th place finish at Nationals has in any way diminishes what she had accromplished before at all. I think you have to be somewhat gullible/naive to think that she could just show up at Nationals after 4 years away and deliver two knock-out performances and make the Olympic team. Sasha's great showing in the SP was a pleasant suprised and a bonus for skating fans. I give her a lot of kudos for showing up and competed.

icedancer2

01-25-2010, 05:17 PM

It bugs the crap out of me that Scott Hamilton's ridiculous outrage in SLC is one of the main reasons we have IJS now, and now he's one of the reasons people don't understand it, because he can't even explain it properly. Ugh.

So true. I didn't watch a lot of the regular coverage this year but was there any attempt to explain the system at all? And yeah, then to not call it right... arrrggghhh.

Schmeck

01-25-2010, 07:43 PM

No, what's worse about Scott Hamilton is that he spends every chance he gets promoting either SOI, skaters that have been on SOI, or skaters he thinks will be good for SOI. It makes me feel like we're watching a scouting report, not a competition.

FSWer

01-25-2010, 07:48 PM

RachelSk8er

01-25-2010, 07:51 PM

I'm beginning to wonder if the Judges caught the praise from the audience. All that loud cheering...and they STILL marked her low. She made 1 or 2 mistakes. But the good amount of the time she skated like she had never been off the ice. I soriusly hope one reason they marked her low was not because she's been off ice and didn't compete in the previous competitions.

She hasn't been off the ice, she's been touring with Stars on Ice and other shows.

And how loud the audience cheers and the judges' scores have nothing to do with one another.

Schmeck

01-26-2010, 05:57 AM

I'm beginning to wonder if the Judges caught the praise from the audience. All that loud cheering...and they STILL marked her low. She made 1 or 2 mistakes. But the good amount of the time she skated like she had never been off the ice. I soriusly hope one reason they marked her low was not because she's been off ice and didn't compete in the previous competitions.

The only clean jump Cohen landed was her double axel. She made many, many mistakes. Or are you commenting on another skater?

sk8ryellow

01-26-2010, 02:07 PM

Isk8NYC

01-26-2010, 02:11 PM

Schmeck

01-26-2010, 02:23 PM

Hamilton may know how to do some jumps, etc, but he's guilty of omission - he praised some really crappy skating, and didn't have the guts to point out some skaters' flaws. He wants to make sure he has a healthy supply of skaters for SOI.

The other commentator made the "judges' slo mo" comment - was it Terry Whats-his-last-name?

sk8ryellow

01-26-2010, 02:32 PM

What does SOI mean????

icedancer2

01-26-2010, 02:35 PM

What does SOI mean????

Stars on Ice.

I also really don't like the team of Scott and Sandra as commentators. Sandra is always telling us how the skaters feel and has a whiney voice. Scott, much as I love his work with SOI, is a screamer too - I must admit I miss Dick and Peggy (and Terry Gannon as well) - nice to see/hear Tracey Wilson still doing Dance commentary - she is excellent - I like Suzie Wynn as well.

sk8ryellow

01-26-2010, 02:38 PM

I liked tara lipinski I thought she was a good commentator on ice network:!:

icedancer2

01-26-2010, 03:09 PM

I liked tara lipinski I thought she was a good commentator on ice network:!:

She did very well as was Tonia Kwiatkowski (I know I mispelled her name...).

Paul Wylie did a great job of explaining IJS (IJS "lite") a couple of years ago. Hopefully they will do a better job at the Olympics... but of course they will dredge up all of the 2002 crappola that led up to IJS being undertaken by the skating community.

daisies

01-26-2010, 03:22 PM

Everyone is commenting on Scott Hamiltons commentating and how he isnt a good commentator but when you get down to it he knows what he is talking about it when it comes to skating and I dont think any of you guys could do better then him because he can actually DO the stuff that the skaters are doing and he can tell if a jump is cheated or not.
Excuse me. I may have never landed a triple jump, but I think my 14 years as a judge -- not to mention my 23 years as a competitive skater -- allow me to tell if a jump is cheated or not. You don't need an OGM to be able to tell.

Scott knows some of what he's talking about, not all. And it's the "all" part that is needed, especially when the sport is at risk of losing viewers. I'm not saying I can do better -- although I'd love to be given a shot! LOL -- but I do think the sport could do better than Scott at this very crucial time.