Doubles come little by little, just like the axel right?

[momof3chicks]

My 9 yo dd is getting closer and closer to consistent on her first two doubles (sal, toe loop). She has been getting around, and landing on the toe pick and then crumpling for a month or so. Now about 1/2 the time, she does a little hop, and once in a while it is an actual glide on the landing- LOL.

I think I remember a similar progression on the axel about 7 months ago and now it is almost never an issue (except trying to make it bigger).

She is going to compete preliminary in the spring and she is very excited about that! She has even started the program and lands the doubles more and more often in it.

She desperately needs new skates, they are ordered and not yet in- same blade, but bigger boot (same brand)- I cannot believe how small they are- why do kids feet grow so fast???

[londonicechamp]

Hi momof3chicks

Congrats on your dd's achievement, and good luck for her upcoming competition.

londonicechamp

[Schmeck]

Yes, all jumps come little by little, and skaters continue to improve on their jumps even after they've 'got' them.

To learn proper jump technique (and to squash the chance of developing some bad habits) a skater should really have one jump rather consistent before attempting a new one - not saying it has to be perfect, but if the toe loop is cheated, then it's better to get that fixed before tossing in another jump or two to confuse the matter. Of course, if the skater is getting a mental block on the jump, yes, move on for a bit.

Be leary of any coaching that allows a skater to 'progress' to another level of jumping when the lower jumps aren't there yet. I've seen problems develop with skaters because their coach let them try doubles when their singles were cheated, and they didn't understand why they came in last all the time. They thought that they could do doubles, when really they were so under-rotated and sloppy that they were scored as bad single jumps.

Also, don't get caught in the 'my child can do' trap - well done lower level jumps get more points than crappy higher ones, especially in the 6.0 system, at least here in the NE. Pushing kids to do lousy higher level jumps just frustrates everyone involved, including the judges!

So parents need to let the coach and skater set the pace, and realize that some jumps come more quickly than others, and that the best way to skate is to not rush things - that prevents injuries and quitting due to frustration.

[sk8tmum]

Be leary of any coaching that allows a skater to 'progress' to another level of jumping when the lower jumps aren't there yet. I've seen problems develop with skaters because their coach let them try doubles when their singles were cheated, and they didn't understand why they came in last all the time. They thought that they could do doubles, when really they were so under-rotated and sloppy that they were scored as bad single jumps.

Also, don't get caught in the 'my child can do' trap - well done lower level jumps get more points than crappy higher ones, especially in the 6.0 system, at least here in the NE. Pushing kids to do lousy higher level jumps just frustrates everyone involved, including the judges!

So parents need to let the coach and skater set the pace, and realize that some jumps come more quickly than others, and that the best way to skate is to not rush things - that prevents injuries and quitting due to frustration.

:bow::bow::bow::bow::bow: - you are absolutely on the mark.

And, of course, the jumps, even if once accomplished, will come and go many times; and what seemed "good" at earlier levels will not be "good enough" at a higher level, which will mean that the coach will continue to work on singles and doubles to improve the execution, entries, etc so that it is competitive at the higher levels.

The CPC detail reports that show downgrades and GOE deductions have been a shock and a wake-up for many skaters and parents who now have visible proof that the jumps are cheated or underrotated or badly executed, which was never visible under OBO. Seeing 2T< and a -3GOE has caused many skaters to understand what issues are.

Be leery too of coaches who are "all about the jumps" and fail to work on posture, carriage, skating skills, spins, transitions, and presentation. Jumps do not win and lose competitions; the entire package is the point - which is why PCS marks are also being seen by some skaters and parents as either pleasant surprises or rude shocks.

I'm not saying that the OP's kid or coach are doing any of the "wrong things" - it's just soapbox day today for me, it was one of those nights at the arena last night when it seemed that underrotates and jump obsessed parents were prevalent, and this triggered a rant!:frus:

[sk8tmum]

She desperately needs new skates, they are ordered and not yet in- same blade, but bigger boot (same brand)- I cannot believe how small they are- why do kids feet grow so fast???

Get them stretched; you can get a full size added in most leather skating boots. It saves break in and money, and is sometimes a good solution (and better solution than changing boots in the middle of competition season). We make them last somehow until the training cycle hits a point where breakin is not going to interfere with competitions or testing. Naturally, you don't want to hurt growing feet with too-small boots, but, it is something to consider.

[momof3chicks]

Unfortunately, they have been stretched already! And they are still making her feet numb.

One of the things dd has been working on is 'core' skating skills and spins too, so we understand it isn't all about the jumps.

It just frustrates her at times!

[twokidsskatemom]

Yes, all jumps come little by little, and skaters continue to improve on their jumps even after they've 'got' them.

To learn proper jump technique (and to squash the chance of developing some bad habits) a skater should really have one jump rather consistent before attempting a new one - not saying it has to be perfect, but if the toe loop is cheated, then it's better to get that fixed before tossing in another jump or two to confuse the matter. Of course, if the skater is getting a mental block on the jump, yes, move on for a bit.

Be leary of any coaching that allows a skater to 'progress' to another level of jumping when the lower jumps aren't there yet. I've seen problems develop with skaters because their coach let them try doubles when their singles were cheated, and they didn't understand why they came in last all the time. They thought that they could do doubles, when really they were so under-rotated and sloppy that they were scored as bad single jumps.

Also, don't get caught in the 'my child can do' trap - well done lower level jumps get more points than crappy higher ones, especially in the 6.0 system, at least here in the NE. Pushing kids to do lousy higher level jumps just frustrates everyone involved, including the judges!

So parents need to let the coach and skater set the pace, and realize that some jumps come more quickly than others, and that the best way to skate is to not rush things - that prevents injuries and quitting due to frustration.
AMEN!
To the OP, your daughter must be a great jumper then if she is getting both jumps and landing them not cheated.Good for her.
It took my daughter a long time to go from jump, to a good jump to a very good jump.Like 3 year from her first double sal to what she has now.Its always a work in progress, to getting it uncheated, to a nice landing, to a different harder entrance.I am happy she has learned to not give up and its worth it to keep working on it.That is how skating is, at least in our views.

[sk8ryellow]

I would say that jumps coming at different speeds my friend ally landed her axel in 2 weeks and it took me a couple months so I wouldnt worry!

[momof3chicks]

AMEN!
To the OP, your daughter must be a great jumper then if she is getting both jumps and landing them not cheated.Good for her.
It took my daughter a long time to go from jump, to a good jump to a very good jump.Like 3 year from her first double sal to what she has now.Its always a work in progress, to getting it uncheated, to a nice landing, to a different harder entrance.I am happy she has learned to not give up and its worth it to keep working on it.That is how skating is, at least in our views.

She is a naturally good jumper. She often has to work harder at the basics than the jumps themselves. Her coach is always drilling her on that basic stuff trying to get her to understand that it will also help her learn the jumps more quickly even. Edited to add that she rarely cheats them, but will fall rather than under rotate. She is working on the timing of getting her leg out of the jump position and into the landing one.

[Isk8NYC]

Unfortunately, they have been stretched already! And they are still making her feet numb.If she's wearing socks, switch to pantyhose socks or tights. That will take up less room and ease the tightness.

As a desparate last-ditch effort, take out the insole and replace it with a thin, flat version. I've even used craft foam sheets to make do in a pinch.

[momof3chicks]

If she's wearing socks, switch to pantyhose socks or tights. That will take up less room and ease the tightness.

As a desparate last-ditch effort, take out the insole and replace it with a thin, flat version. I've even used craft foam sheets to make do in a pinch.

We already did all that, this unfortunately, was not our first rodeo with small skates. The kid grew 3 inches in height this year- and the feet grew more than commensurately.

[Isk8NYC]

We already did all that, this unfortunately, was not our first rodeo with small skates. The kid grew 3 inches in height this year- and the feet grew more than commensurately.
I sympathize - I have a pair of DD skates that were worn for four months. She had a growth spurt and the skates made her CRY when she put them on. She begged out of the holiday show because her feet hurt so much when practices started up. (I replaced her skates two weeks later, but it was too late for her to join by then.)

I think you've done everything you can to make do - you'll just have to wait until your order comes in.

[momof3chicks]

I sympathize - I have a pair of DD skates that were worn for four months. She had a growth spurt and the skates made her CRY when she put them on. She begged out of the holiday show because her feet hurt so much when practices started up. (I replaced her skates two weeks later, but it was too late for her to join by then.)

I think you've done everything you can to make do - you'll just have to wait until your order comes in.

The boots are in and now we are waiting on the blades. I need to find a good place to sell her 9 inch pattern 99s. They were only used for 10 months by an 80 lb 8 year old. They are in fantastic shape. :giveup:

[ukmum]

Jumps are funny aren't they? my DD is not a natural jumper, far better at spins and field moves, she got her axel practically overnight and had it moving in a programme in no time, but still can't do a tea pot. She has struggled horribly with the 2 sal yet the 2toe came out of nowhere. I think they favour different things and just find some thin gs easier than others.

We have found that some things just disappear during a growth spurt too. First test 3 weeks before the spiral just disappeared, thankfully reappeared on the day. Well it has happened again just before l3 test on Monday. Hopefully it will reappear!

I guess it is just like potty training/reading, they do things at different times and they are all individuals. Very frustrating for them, and very frustrating for us to see them going through it. It must though be a good thing for them to learn through something that they love that there are highs as well as lows and that in the long term hard work pays off.

Good luck to your daughter, we are in the same position with boots by the way, but my daughter is still in basic boots and MKIV blades, just abotu to move up to coronation ace which we hope won't be too hard a transition.

[momof3chicks]

Jumps are funny aren't they? my DD is not a natural jumper, far better at spins and field moves, she got her axel practically overnight and had it moving in a programme in no time, but still can't do a tea pot. She has struggled horribly with the 2 sal yet the 2toe came out of nowhere. I think they favour different things and just find some thin gs easier than others.

.

What is a teapot? It is funny because the 2sal came and went and then she was frustrated and so they moved onto the 2toe, then she did that and suddenly the 2sal was back again and good!! I admire that she learned an axel and 2 doubles in 7 months all while growing so much!!

[Isk8NYC]

A shoot-the-duck is called a "teapot" in the UK

[momof3chicks]

A shoot-the-duck is called a "teapot" in the UK


OH!! Funny thing, my 9 yo has a really nice low sit spin and can almost do a cannonball spin, but her shoot the duck is kind of lame. My 10 year old has a nice shoot the duck, but cannot do a sit spin to save her life.

They both skate synchro and I was so tired of watching my otherwise very capable and talented 9 yo struggle with spread eagles, so I asked her coach to teach her. The woman was a national champion russian ice dancer and she said to me "I can't because I cannot do one either".

Cracked me up.

[Schmeck]

There's all kinds of stretching to be done to get a decent spread eagle. DD18 has tight, turned in hips - spread eagles and ina bauers for synchro are a must, so she worked for years to get good ones. In one direction only, though!

There seems to be two types of jumpers - edge take off (sal, loop, axel) and toe-assist take off (toeloop, flip, lutz) My DD is definitely a toe-assister. She freaked on the axel, and had an OK loop and crappy sal. She had all her singles (except axel) one summer/fall, and then almost had a double flip that was 2/3rds up the boards for height, and 1 3/4+ rotation. The jump was huge, but the only double she wanted to try. Then she quit freestyle for moves/icedance/synchro. She really didn't have the confidence for the axel!

There are skaters at our rink with great double loops and they struggle with the flip and toeloop.

[twokidsskatemom]

There's all kinds of stretching to be done to get a decent spread eagle. DD18 has tight, turned in hips - spread eagles and ina bauers for synchro are a must, so she worked for years to get good ones. In one direction only, though!

There seems to be two types of jumpers - edge take off (sal, loop, axel) and toe-assist take off (toeloop, flip, lutz) My DD is definitely a toe-assister. She freaked on the axel, and had an OK loop and crappy sal. She had all her singles (except axel) one summer/fall, and then almost had a double flip that was 2/3rds up the boards for height, and 1 3/4+ rotation. The jump was huge, but the only double she wanted to try. Then she quit freestyle for moves/icedance/synchro. She really didn't have the confidence for the axel!

There are skaters at our rink with great double loops and they struggle with the flip and toeloop.

You need to have open hips for spread eagles. My son has a great one, my daugher not at all, even with stretching.Maybe a few years down the road.!!!
My son also has a nice double loop, and double flip but his axle is still a work in progress.
Jumps arent the whole package,which is why my daughter place well at regionals this year.The kids that were in her group all had higher level jumps, but they fell or, cheated the jump.I still would worry less about what she has now and she what happens in the next year or so.

[sk8tmum]

In Canada, we're moving to CPC more and more; it's going to be used in our StarSkate provincials this year from Junior Bronze up for the first time (which is basically axel, 2 doubles up to 2 loop). StarSkate is our recreational competition stream (test stream).

Under CPC, the spins are very important at the lower levels (and up); you can rack up huge points with spins and/or spiral sequences. But, a sit spin that doesn't sit, or have enough revs, or a spiral not on an edge and not held long enough, do not fare well under points ... zeroes are zeroes!

Cheated jumps are evident, and so are poor skating skills (or, excellent skating skills!). Poor technique shows up in GOE.

My DD carefully examined the SOV that will be used, and was fascinated to discover that a clean waltz jump would be worth as much as a rotated axel with a fall, and more than an badly executed axel with a fall! Same thing with cheated jumps; a big, clean, well executed single was worth more than a downgraded double.

Not sure what's going on in the US, but, that's the way we're headed here. I like the idea of being able to tell exactly what jumps my kid is doing well, and what ones are cheated; and how far s/he is from the rest of the kids (ahead or behind) and what needs to be worked on!

[twokidsskatemom]

In Canada, we're moving to CPC more and more; it's going to be used in our StarSkate provincials this year from Junior Bronze up for the first time (which is basically axel, 2 doubles up to 2 loop). StarSkate is our recreational competition stream (test stream).

Under CPC, the spins are very important at the lower levels (and up); you can rack up huge points with spins and/or spiral sequences. But, a sit spin that doesn't sit, or have enough revs, or a spiral not on an edge and not held long enough, do not fare well under points ... zeroes are zeroes!

Cheated jumps are evident, and so are poor skating skills (or, excellent skating skills!). Poor technique shows up in GOE.

My DD carefully examined the SOV that will be used, and was fascinated to discover that a clean waltz jump would be worth as much as a rotated axel with a fall, and more than an badly executed axel with a fall! Same thing with cheated jumps; a big, clean, well executed single was worth more than a downgraded double.

Not sure what's going on in the US, but, that's the way we're headed here. I like the idea of being able to tell exactly what jumps my kid is doing well, and what ones are cheated; and how far s/he is from the rest of the kids (ahead or behind) and what needs to be worked on!

That is the way it is here too. If you look at the protocols from regionals or any other comp, you can tell what jumps skaters have and what points they get. That is why I said to the op not to worry about the jumps.My daughter got 1+ for her axle, some got -2.She got busted for her toe axle, which now is fixed.
IJS does have issues as well but at least you can look at your scores and others.

[sk8ergalgal]

I am not surprised that the russian ice dancer cannot do a spread eagle.. I am in the same boat.. I have tried for years stretching every night and still cannot do one.. I guess my hips just dont open..