Coaching Advice Needed

[sk8ergalgal]

Okay so I am a fairly new coach and this is only my second year coaching. I have just been hired for the first time to do private lessons with a skater who has only ever had group lessons. How should I go about the first lesson?? Should I just do an assessment of the skaters abilities?? Also how would you go about teaching a skater an element they have already learnt (incorrectly or potentially in the wrong direction) the right way? Do you start from scratch again? I don't want to look like a complete idiot.
Any advice is appreciated.

[sk8ergalgal]

Please can anyone help me??

[Kat12]

The first thing I'm wondering is what you mean by "potentially in the wrong direction"?

[AgnesNitt]

I am not a coach, but I'd like to make some comments on what I've found I dislike in a first lesson with a coach. They see something wrong and they try to fix it without seeing all of my skating. There might be fundamental things I'm doing wrong that can only be caught by running me through a series of exercises.
So if I was a coach with a beginner, first lesson I'd start off ice, look at the skater's skates, their condition, the mounting of the blades. Are they skewed, warped? How is the skater lacing up? Then I'd have a plan--based on the skater's level to see all aspects of their skating.
1. general forward stroking
2. edges in an eight
3, backward stroking
4 backward edges (if they have them)
5. Three turns
6. Mohawks
7. stops
8 two foot turns.
Think about the things you saw 'wrong' with the skater's flow and technique. Is there something that ties those together? If there's unrelated things 'wrong' what kind of fixes and exercises can you give your student.
I would be VERY impressed if I ever ran into a coach who had a set list in writing for a first lesson of things for me to exhibit and provided me with a note on each item. Then a checklist of exercises for me to do.
That's professionalism and organization. And the coach should have a note to themselves for what to work on or check for the next lesson. Get an ipod Nano 5 gen or a Flip camera,so you have video and voice recordings. The video so you can show a student during the lesson what they are doing, and the voice recorder so you can make a quick voice note for the next week's lesson. When you get to next week you need to know what you expect to see. I would show up for lessons and my coaches never remembered what I was working on.

(As I said, I am not a skating coach. But I have trained people at a very high level for military operations. I know how to design training programs. Consistency and record keeping are key.)

[dbny]

Before the lesson make sure you know what level the skater is at in group. Have her run through those elements as a quick evaluation.

The best advice I can give, is to always preface any correction with a positive comment. Examples: "That's pretty good, now let's make it even better." "Wow, you got two whole revolutions on that spin! Now, with just a few changes, you can get even more."

Teaching is a process. The more you do, the more you learn how to teach. Be willing to learn from your students. If you have a favorite technique for teaching an element, be prepared with a different approach if that does not work for a particular student.

As AgnesNitt said, check the skates before the lesson to be sure they fit, are sharp enough, and are laced properly. The two biggest problems I've found with lacing is that they are either too loose, or too tight at the very top, which prevents knee bend.

I disagree with Agnes, though, on the set list of elements to work on. IMO, every skater is different. Some will need more work and more help in one area than another. So, while you should have a mental checklist, focus on the things that are most important to the student in front of you. For example, some kids are very stiff, so I have exercises to help them loosen up. Some are toe pushers, and I have exercises for that. For the ones who habitually look down, I find something for them to look at. Video is very helpful, but can also take up a lot of time. I use my phone camera for brief clips that help students see things like lack of knee bend. Sometimes that's all it takes. Some students will want to watch themselves more than they will want to skate, so look out for that!

[sk8ergalgal]

Okay thanks guys. I have had some previous experience with the skater so I know where she is at basically. I have not seen her skate recently mind you. What I mean by potentially the wrong direction is that I believe the public coach forced the skater to spin a certain way and her natural way is the opposite. What would I do in this situation?? She has her one foot spin, waltz jump working on toe loop shalcow and sit spin.

[dbny]

What I mean by potentially the wrong direction is that I believe the public coach forced the skater to spin a certain way and her natural way is the opposite. What would I do in this situation?? She has her one foot spin, waltz jump working on toe loop shalcow and sit spin.

This is not uncommon, but I wonder what makes you think it may be the case for this skater. I have a student who initially felt best CCW, but kept breaking at the waist on even two foot spins, so I suggested she try CW, and that fixed it, so she stuck with CW. Quick test of direction preference: have the skater skate away from you and then, out of the blue, ask her to come back. Usually the direction she turns will be the more natural direction. If you really think she may do better in the other direction, ask her to try a two foot spin in that direction. If that looks good (she may need some practice to switch), have her try a bunny hop on the other foot, and then a waltz jump.

[sk8ergalgal]

Okay well today is the big day! First lesson together. I'll let you guys know how it goes :)

[slusher]

It might be too late for my advice, and I don't teach privates but do a lot of group and one of the first things I do is say that "I might describe things differently and we might try some things you haven't done before." Which sets the stage to fix a lot of technique issues from the coach before me from in the lower group :frus:

Very commonly I'll have kids who spin one way and jump the other, and it takes a few weeks, seriously a few weeks for the skater to sort out which is going to be their official way. It's important to fix this before backspin, loop and flip, because those are the jumps that are all strong side jumps. It's possible the skater has been able to jump their wrong way since sal, toe, waltz etc are (in my description) jumps that involve the usage of both feet, so they don't necessarily have to be one side dominant. I'm able to jump and spin both ways up to salchow, but loop, forget it. I also bunny hop my wrong way, because the landing pick foot is my dominant foot and I'm more comfortable hitting the landing toe on that one, so it's not always a good test either. So for a couple of weeks, provide the opportunity to do both sides. If the parents complain, say that you're training for advanced levels in spins since spin the opposite way is still a feature, :P

[Isk8NYC]

I am a coach and I've dealt with this before, but I somehow missed this thread. Sorry for the late reply. AFAIK, the OP hasn't said that the skater spins and jumps in different directions, so if that's an issue, you'll need to teach her to spin in the other direction. It's much easier to relearn spins than jumps.

I had one student in groups who did waltz jumps CW and Toe Loops CCW. Since she had a private coach that never changed that habit, so I simply remarked on it to that coach privately and then kept my mouth shut. You DO NOT criticize another coach's methods because it makes them defensive. That's important to remember as a group coach - if a student has a private coach, you should defer to his/her teaching methods. Just don't get duped by the students' misinterpretations of drills vs. skills. (I had one girl who stepped into waltz jumps as if she were going off a springboard and she claimed the private coach taught her that. I asked that coach about it and it turned out that it was just a one-time drill during a group lesson. The girl wasn't taking private lessons at all. I changed that entrance on the next class - it was making my heart jump to my throat!)

Whenever I've acquired a private student from group lessons or another coach, I start off by talking about how people are different and different is good. Different coaches teach things different ways and skaters are all unique. Therefore, sometimes we have to use different techniques to find what works BEST for the skater. (I've also had this discussion with my private students after they've taken group lessons with someone else and said "she teaches it differently.") *SOAPBOX AWAY*

As for changing the spin direction, first do one or more of the test(s) others have detailed in this thread and note which way the skater turns more naturally. Then, have the skater show you a spin from a standstill position and see if the direction matches. Repeat with the jumps and make a note of which direction they use.


If you do need to address the spin direction, I start by working on spins in both directions. I tell the skater that it's a valuable skill for programs that always impresses me, at least. (Do it for me! lol) That way, you can change a habit without making the other coaches look like they did something wrong. In reality, they may have given her a valuable skill.

There are a lot of benefits to being able to spin both ways: it keeps the skater from getting dizzy if you alternate the spin directions during practices. It's fun to put into a program, even if it's not an IJS event. It improves overall posture and balance, plus it sets the stage for stronger turns (threes, brackets, rockers, counters twizzles) on what would ordinarily be the "weak side."

Tell us how your lesson went!

[Query]

There are a lot of benefits to being able to spin both ways: it keeps the skater from getting dizzy if you alternate the spin directions during practices. It's fun to put into a program, even if it's not an IJS event. It improves overall posture and balance, plus it sets the stage for stronger turns (threes, brackets, rockers, counters twizzles) on what would ordinarily be the "weak side."

One of the ladies did that in the last ISU Skate America freestyle event. She spun one way, then the opposite. So she or her choreographer thought it neat too. And you can't go to such events unless you are pretty good.

I'm not a coach either.

I know I'm biased towards assuming problems are caused by equipment, but I like what people said about checking the skates. I've noticed my ability to skate, turn and spin depended a lot on how the skate is balanced, particularly left/right balance. It can be very hard to do anything on an inside edge if your skate is balanced so as to make you tend to lean outside, or vice versa, because the shape of the insole doesn't support one side of the foot as well, the blades aren't sharpened to equal inside and outside edge heights, or something else on the boot presses the foot in one direction more than another. Likewise for forward/backwards balance. I suspect foot glide and spin preferences are sometimes determined by initial skate balance, rather than body physical characteristics.

The way I see it, to determine if you are balanced, you should be able to do one foot glides, forwards and back,on both skates, balanced properly over the blade, without feeling like you are preferentially using any muscles to hold the blade vertical, or in the desired forwards/back position.

Of course the problem with my theory is that skaters often find it psychologically difficult to skate balanced over blades, and feel safer on a slight inside edge, because it is easy to stop an inside direction fall by putting the other foot down. They might have a perception of physical difficulty when the actual difficulty is psychological. But I can't think of a better way to determine skate balance issues.

I may not be very good, but I try to practice everything in both directions, to try to avoid problems that are unbalanced muscle problems. If you always jump and spin in only one direction, and don't balance it out with opposite direction strengthening exercises, you gradually create muscles that are stronger in one direction, which may gradually twist the spine and other kinesthetic chain components, which may predispose you to injury. Obviously that can't be universal, because most skaters do it, but it is still claimed to be a bad idea from a health perspective.

I still don't understand why people have hand and foot preferences. Is there a survival advantage? Or does it happen by chance?

[sk8ergalgal]

Okay so here is what I noticed on our first lesson:
Began with basic skating forwards/backwards.
Backwards crosscuts having trouble and keeps going forwards to the toe picks
Three turns can do RFO, RFI, and LFO has difficulty with LFI
Mohawks can do them on the right foot and struggles with the left
Can do a good strong Waltz jump and toe loop, Shalcow there just not as comfortable with it as the toe loop and waltz jump.
Does a one foot spin averages two revolutions. Would like to see more.
Attempts a sit spin but has difficult sitting low and rotating
She knows her Dutch Waltz just need to work on deeper edges and the timing.

All in all not a bad first session. Now looking forward to next week.

[slusher]

Sounds like a typical post-Canskate/preprelim skater, nothing out of the ordinary other than the spin. Maybe have a skate talk, as Query said, to see what the blades are like. Thanks for the follow up report, I'm always curious how things turn out.

[sk8ergalgal]

Well she has Jackson skates, the ones that come with the boot and blade attached. I forgot to mention that she leans forwards a lot when doing her crosscuts and general skating also need to work on her knee bend. More of a stiff skater.

[Mrs Redboots]

Actually, if you do have - I mean, if anybody has, not just the OP - a skater who spins and jumps in different directions, it's well worth while keeping the "wrong way" spin, even while training your skater to spin in the same direction as he or she jumps. Being able to spin both ways is a real advantage when it comes to the IJS these days!

[Skate@Delaware]

I know I'm biased towards assuming problems are caused by equipment, but I like what people said about checking the skates. I've noticed my ability to skate, turn and spin depended a lot on how the skate is balanced, particularly left/right balance. It can be very hard to do anything on an inside edge if your skate is balanced so as to make you tend to lean outside, or vice versa, because the shape of the insole doesn't support one side of the foot as well, the blades aren't sharpened to equal inside and outside edge heights, or something else on the boot presses the foot in one direction more than another. Likewise for forward/backwards balance. I suspect foot glide and spin preferences are sometimes determined by initial skate balance, rather than body physical characteristics.

The way I see it, to determine if you are balanced, you should be able to do one foot glides, forwards and back,on both skates, balanced properly over the blade, without feeling like you are preferentially using any muscles to hold the blade vertical, or in the desired forwards/back position.

Of course the problem with my theory is that skaters often find it psychologically difficult to skate balanced over blades, and feel safer on a slight inside edge, because it is easy to stop an inside direction fall by putting the other foot down. They might have a perception of physical difficulty when the actual difficulty is psychological. But I can't think of a better way to determine skate balance issues.
~~snipped~~
I still don't understand why people have hand and foot preferences. Is there a survival advantage? Or does it happen by chance?
Handedness is either genetic or learned. And handedness/dominance tends to be body-wide, so if you are right-handed then your right side will be potentially stronger only because you use that side more it develops more. So, you tend to develop unbalanced muscles (in some people no big deal, in others, a big deal). If it bothers you, then work your non-dominant side more often than your dominant side.
Okay so here is what I noticed on our first lesson:
Began with basic skating forwards/backwards.
Backwards crosscuts having trouble and keeps going forwards to the toe picks
Three turns can do RFO, RFI, and LFO has difficulty with LFI
Mohawks can do them on the right foot and struggles with the left
Can do a good strong Waltz jump and toe loop, Shalcow there just not as comfortable with it as the toe loop and waltz jump.
Does a one foot spin averages two revolutions. Would like to see more.
Attempts a sit spin but has difficult sitting low and rotating
She knows her Dutch Waltz just need to work on deeper edges and the timing.

All in all not a bad first session. Now looking forward to next week.
If she is right-side dominant, then the LFI 3-turns will be a tad weaker; it will take time to develop them. She will gradually gain security with her edge work as she gains confidence-it just takes time. As for boot issues, if (as Query mentioned) she can glide on a flat and not veer off, then I wouldn't mess with them right now. I would also line up some basic off- and on-ice sequences for her; give her some structure to her practices and help keep her from wasting ice time (always a good idea cause ice time is so expensive these days).

She might need some strength & flexibility work, to address some of her issues (breaking at the waist, sit-spin), but not too many things at first-you don't want to overload her!

Sounds like you are doing a great job, so keep up the good work and keep us up to date!

[sk8ergalgal]

Thanks Skate@Delaware for those ideas. She does do some off ice ballet classes, tap and hip hop classes so she keeps pretty busy as she skates three times a week for an hour each time.