testing

[mamaskate]

As skaters move up in levels, do more of them fail the tests? How common or uncommon is it to fail tests? If the coach thinks that a skater is prepared, does that mean that they almost certainly will pass?

Thanks.

[liz_on_ice]

Failing looks pretty common, from what I've observed. There can be lots of reasons - here's a few:

Skater isn't really ready but attempts the test anyway (scheduling reasons maybe)

Skater is ready but gets overcome by nerves and skates badly

Judges are human, some have higher standards than others

Coaches are human, some might think a skater is ready before she is.

[sk8tmum]

I'm not sure how it works in the States, however, in Canada, as you move up the levels, for example in dance and interpretive, the passing standard becomes higher. Thus, a skater who, say, has a problem with expression in dance will pass at the lower level as they only need to pass 3 out of the 6 criteria, but, when they get to the higher test levels and need to pass 5 out of the 6 (or more), the weakness in expression becomes an issue that may prevent a pass.

That said, the coach should be reviewing the lower level tests and focussing on the weaknesses, as should the skater, however, it doesn't always happen.

I also find that judges are more "lenient" at the lower levels in order not to discourage young skaters, whereas they are tougher at the higher levels. They also seem to be more forgiving in younger skaters, and less so as the skaters mature and gain years - thus, a kid may find that they are tougher on them later in life than they might have been earlier.

However, me, I don't like to see tests put in until the test is passable at a better-than-satisfactory level. That gives wiggle room for nerves, bad days, etc., however, if the test day schedules are unforgiving, the coaches may not have the ability to wait and may put them in a bit early.

In Canada, there is an expectation that clubs should be passing high tests at a 70% pass rate (or at least that's the criteria that our Section puts out as a target). High tests being Junior Silver and up.

[dbny]

I also find that judges are more "lenient" at the lower levels in order not to discourage young skaters, whereas they are tougher at the higher levels. They also seem to be more forgiving in younger skaters, and less so as the skaters mature and gain years - thus, a kid may find that they are tougher on them later in life than they might have been earlier.

In the US, judges are more lenient at the lower levels because the standards are higher at the higher levels for the very same skills. For example, at the lowest level MIF test, scraped three turns may not even merit a comment, but a few levels up, consistent scrapes could fail a particular move. Our lowest level tests are specifically called "encouragement" tests. Nevertheless, there is always the rare judge who sees every test as a chance to throw his/her weight around, and there is also the rare skater who isn't ready for that test.

Just because a coach says a skater is prepared, that does not mean a pass. Sometimes a student fails a test because the coach did now know the requirements or did not understand how the test would be judged in a particular locality. Other times, a skater clutches up and fails due to nerves affecting the performance. Some clubs have reputations for being easy or hard, and coaches can also have reputations for whether or not their students usually pass.

[Isk8NYC]

The test standard does get higher as the skater moves up in levels. The judges are supposed to expect better form and power on each level up the ladder.

Coaches who have brought a lot of students through specific levels at a particular Club should have a good idea of the test standard and whether or not the skater is ready. Strict coaches won't allow a skater to take a test if they feel the skater is not ready. Most coaches want the skater's test experience to be positive, and they also want to have a high rate of passing among their students. The pass/fail ratio reflects on the coach and becomes part of their professional image.

Anyone can have a shaky test due to nerves, fatigue, or illness. So even if the skater looked perfect the day before the test, anything can happen at the test session. The fact that test registrations are often due one month or more in advance doesn't help much. You can't predict what the skater's school- or work-load will be on the days leading up to the test. Skaters sometimes "scratch" from test sessions at the last minute if they feel they are unprepared or unable to skate up to the standard.

Standards do vary from Club to Club, even though most judges try to be consistent. Some Clubs pride themselves on bringing in judges known for being very demanding and strict. The Club officials feel it builds a reputation for excellence and consistent testing standards. It can backfire and drive away coaches/skaters from the Club's test sessions though.

It is faily common for skaters to get "retests" at the higher levels unless they are truly phenomenal skaters with nerves of steel. There's something to be said for being overqualified...it saves on test fees.

[rsk8d]

Having taken several skaters through their senior moves, I do not have a skater test until they are absolutely prepared, and even with one mistake, should pass. For my skaters to test, they have to be passing 'over' by my standards, leaving slight room for error. That's also me being picky....

That being said, some skaters don't always skate up to their capabilities on tests, and nerves come into play. I recently had a novice tester who did things on her test that I have never seen from her before, and failed. You sometimes never know what a student will do, especially if they are newer to you.

It is beneficial for a coach to do mock tests and have other skaters or coaches (if available) stand in as a judge, if a skater has a nerves issue.

Watch out if a coach is saying, 'Well, we'll try the test and see what happens, to see what their comments are." That student may not be ready, and you may be paying money for a test that needs not to be taken. Just some food for thought.

Yes, the testing standard is higher at the higher levels, which should be expected.

[Schmeck]

Watch out if a coach is saying, 'Well, we'll try the test and see what happens, to see what their comments are." That student may not be ready, and you may be paying money for a test that needs not to be taken. Just some food for thought.


I think it's great for a coach to let a student try a test even if she is not 100% ready for it, if the skater wants to, that is. You can get some very useful feedback from the judges comments. My daughter passed her juvie moves that way - her coach told me she didn't think she was going to pass, but wanted the input from the judges. Daughter ended up passing.

For synchro, there's usually a mad push to get a few girls up to the proper moves test level. Lots of skaters test moves and don't pass, take the judges' comments, work on the issues and pass the next month.

[Isk8NYC]

Clubs will sometimes offer an evaluation/mock test session with judges in order to give skaters the chance to receive honest feedback from judges. Ours charges a small fee, much less than a test fee. The skater receives one-on-one, written and oral evaluations. Definitely better than "giving it a shot" at a test session.

The skater is NOT taking the test so there's no chance of an accidental pass. (Kudos to Icy) You also don't know for certain that the feedback given is complete unless the Club always uses the exact same judges for both the evaluation and the later test.

As someone else said above, you never know exactly what will happen at a test session...

[Skittl1321]

Clubs will sometimes offer an evaluation/mock test session with judges in order to give skaters the chance to receive honest feedback from judges. Ours charges a small fee, much less than a test fee. The skater receives one-on-one, written and oral evaluations. Definitely better than "giving it a shot" at a test session.

Must be nice. Clubs in uor area have 1, maybe 2 if we are lucky, test sessions a year. There is NO WAY they'd bring in judges for a non-test session.

[twokidsskatemom]

Must be nice. Clubs in uor area have 1, maybe 2 if we are lucky, test sessions a year. There is NO WAY they'd bring in judges for a non-test session.

I agree, we only had one too and I had to fight to get that one!!!

[Schmeck]

We've done a lot of traveling to get to a test session - some have been over an hour and a half drive. Considering there are at least 8 rinks less than an hour's drive from our house, going that "far" for a test could be seen as unusual around here. Luckily, we have a regional club council that puts a lot of info online for test sessions, competitions, etc. That really helps.

[Isk8NYC]

Must be nice. Clubs in our area have 1, maybe 2 if we are lucky, test sessions a year. There is NO WAY they'd bring in judges for a non-test session.

I agree, we only had one too and I had to fight to get that one!!!

In areas with lots of rinks, it's not uncommon. It's more likely to occur if you have one or more judges involved with the skating club - a club officer/judge evaluated a skater's Juv MITF skills during a freestyle session last month because the skater had a test coming up soon and wanted some feedback.

Skittl has said that she lives in an area where skating clubs and rinks are few and far between. I assume twokidsskatemom is in a similar situation. That doesn't affect what takes place elsewhere.

I can name six different (metropolitan) areas on the east coast where in a given month, you have multiple options for testing. North Jersey FSC is awesome - they hold monthly test sessions at several different rinks. A retest is only 30 days away...

Competition for members in metropolitan areas is strong, so the Clubs that offer special benefits attract more members.

There's another way to look at the one test/season vs. one test/month contrast: it's based on availability and demand. Clubs that don't have ice time available or judges that are local consolidate tests until both are available. If a Club holds a single, all-day test session per season for 120 tests, that's the same effect as having a monthly one-hour test session for 10 tests. 120 skating tests get done, it's just a different way of fulfilling the need.

I know of one club in NJ that hasn't held a test session above Pre-Preliminary in years - North Jersey FSC's sessions are convenient, consistent and routine. If it works, don't fix it, right?

[rsk8d]

I think it's great for a coach to let a student try a test even if she is not 100% ready for it, if the skater wants to, that is. You can get some very useful feedback from the judges comments. My daughter passed her juvie moves that way - her coach told me she didn't think she was going to pass, but wanted the input from the judges. Daughter ended up passing.

To clarify my previous post, my point was that a coach should be educated to know what the requirements are for each move- found in the PSA book or video, the USFS rulebook, etc. They list all of the common errors and what judges will expect from the move. If coach spends the time reviewing these things, a judges input from a test should not be needed, unless there is a nice judge who wants to critique the skater before taking the test (which I have seen).

[Isk8NYC]

Just a note: a Club's willingness to offer tests and competitions is often determined by the members' willingness to volunteer. It takes a lot of coordination and people to pull off a successful session and without volunteers, it just won't happen.

[RachelSk8er]

I think there are times or situations where putting out a test that may not be 100% ready is appropriate. Sometimes it may be your last chance to test for a while (end of season or whatnot), you're trying to pass a test for a deadline (to move up, make a synchro team and need it for try-outs, etc), you have an opportunity to test with a panel that may be a little easier/more forgiving, etc. Back when they got rid of figures and switched to moves, a lot of REALLY BAD tests were put out because people wanted to try and pass what they had been working on. Judges here were pretty easy on those testers. I wonder if the same will happen before the changes to the current moves next September. Or you may be in a geographic area where there are no regular male dance coaches, and one is brought in from a few hours away for testing. This was the situation where I went to college (where we only had 2 test sessions/year). All you got was one 15-minute lesson with the partner the day before the test. I def tested dances where the partnering was shaky as a result.

I've also put out a dance that wasn't 100% ready because I was testing another that was, and figured that while I was taking time off work to test one dance, I may as well try the other. Funny thing is that I always end up passing the one that wasn't really ready and failing the one that was. My nerves get the best of me on the strong dance but I have no expectations on the weaker one. The last time I did this was with my Tango and American. At the test session, my coach wanted me to scratch my American because it was awful on my lesson that same morning, but I refused since I wouldn't get my $$ back. I'm not quite sure where the patterns of it I did on the test session came from, I still have yet to do the stupid dance as well as I did it on that test session. (Passed above average by all 3, while the 4 other Americans that day failed). Then I went out and bombed my silver tango, which is one of my best dances. The 2nd pattern of my solo was so bad I started laughing.

It may also depend on the panel. My junior moves would not quite pass on a session up here because I don't have enough power on the one diagonal pattern and edges aren't deep enough on the other. (Other half of the test is really strong and would fly above passing average.) But I was planning to test at Buckeye because all the adult tests would have been lumped together and I wouldn't be compared to a 13 yr old who skates hours and hours a week taking the same test. Although the standards wouldn't be "lower" per se, I imagine they'd have been a little more forgiving/understanding. Then I had to go and sprain my ankle. :frus:

[Skittl1321]

Skittl has said that she lives in an area where skating clubs and rinks are few and far between.

No, not really rinks and clubs- the problem is judges. Most judges have to come in from out of state. It is VERY expensive. I have a rink 5 minutes, 30 minutes, 1 hour, and 2 hours away from me. Within 3 hours there are 3 more.

My local club has only had one test session in their (5 year? 3 year?) history, and the "competitive" club (has skaters who have gone to nationals) in the area has 2 a year- they have plenty of volunteers available, just not the money to bring in judges/buy ice. But they have hosted regionals and are gearing up for synchro sectionals, so it's an active club.

Within 3 hours of me there are even more clubs, but their sessions are pretty few and far between too- twice a year seems to be the norm. Only Omaha, seems to have regular sessions, and that's the furthest away.

The most frustrating thing is that the clubs don't work with each other, so "winter" test sessions of all the Iowa clubs are often close enough to each other that you can't hope to retest at another nearby (within an hour) club, because it's not enough days in between from the retry.

[RachelSk8er]

The most frustrating thing is that the clubs don't work with each other, so "winter" test sessions of all the Iowa clubs are often close enough to each other that you can't hope to retest at another nearby (within an hour) club, because it's not enough days in between from the retry.

It's a shame that the clubs don't work together, especially given your isolation. It would be much more cost-effective and easier to schedule sessions so that people who get a big R can do it again and not have to wait months and months.

Clubs here (where we do have judges all over, especially lower ones) got the hint. They went so far as to waive out of club test fees for skaters taking higher tests so that the gold judges aren't spread too thin.

[Schmeck]

To clarify my previous post, my point was that a coach should be educated to know what the requirements are for each move- found in the PSA book or video, the USFS rulebook, etc. They list all of the common errors and what judges will expect from the move. If coach spends the time reviewing these things, a judges input from a test should not be needed, unless there is a nice judge who wants to critique the skater before taking the test (which I have seen).

Yes, but judges have their own versions of power and edge, as do coaches - my daughter has gotten back test sheets with so many contradictory comments it makes us laugh! One judge would comment "needs to show more power" while another one has "nice power" as a comment for the same element :roll: So, it's really up to the personal interpretation, and not all judges or coaches are identical for that.