How much is too much? (warning long post...)

[cazzie]

My 10 1/2 year old is currently doing 4 hours free skating, 3 hours dance and 4 hours off ice training each week. All group classes. Practice ice when I'm able to take her. Landing axel, double loop, was landing double salchow (not always) and close to double toe loop. Various spins and stuff as well (changing feet and changing some positions). In dance she has a partner although they haven't started competing yet together. Dance - learned various dances - working on fiesta tango, 14-step and some other solos that I don't remember. With partner - real beginner dances.

Dance coach has invited her to increase her dance by another 3 hours because of more couple's classes. Once she passes more tests and skates at higher level there may be a need to increase free! I've agreed extra dance for school holidays - but - starting to wonder how much is too much.

Wondering about impact on school work, social impact and injury risk.... She thinks she can do it, coaches think its fine - but - I still worry! Off ice coach probably raises bigger concerns about making sure there are days off and enough rest.

She is a child that lives to skate.If she could skate instead of school, she would. At times I have MADE her go to a friends birthday party and miss skating although if she is given the choice skating always comes first. At school she is well liked but often flits on the edges of groups because she just doesn't consider socializing as important as skating. At skating she is there working 100% all the time and quite critical of her own skating. Sets her own goals and time-frames.

As her parent, I know she is (by a long way) not the most talented child and works really hard for what she does. I don't think she is a child who will ever be close to the top. Each new thing she learns I wonder whether she will master it and at what level it will be something that is beyond her capability - although she seems to work and work until she learns it.

She likes dance and free, considered by coaches to be more talented dancer than free skater... spindly legged (although improving she is not the most powerful jumper and legs and arms just probably too long), quite dramatic in her presentation, a certain grace and good steps/edges. We do get comments from people that there is something appealing that draws people to watch her even though not technically the strongest skater.

Dance not as friendly environment (constant drama's and lots of jealousy) and at one point nearly gave it up because of this. Free - she has loads of friends at all levels and a group of friends who only do free that she wants to keep up with.

She gets twisted in knots thinking about decisions/when she will have to make choices and I don't feel of much help to her.

Husband and I are both academics (sciences) so the whole skating scene has taken us by surprise. Our daughter is a bit weak in maths although great with literature/language and my husband feels very shocked she isn't a maths genius and would have her do less sport and more school work. (No where near the same effort with school work). Husband would like her at academic secondary school and she would need to work on entrance exams this school year.

How do others cope with this? Has anybody lived though this and come out the other side with a child who loses interest in skating and wins university scholarships (of course written tongue in cheek....).

[Clarice]

I don't know how much help I can be, but here's some stuff to consider:

My coach always recommended an hour of practice for every lesson taken.

I've heard another formula that suggests a half hour on ice for each half rotation the skater is currently working on. For your daughter that adds up to 3 half hours for the axel, 4 for the double salchow, 4 for the double toe loop, 4 for the double loop, 2 for the single flip, 2 for the single lutz, or 9-10 hours on-ice per week total.

A day off from training each week is important.

Your skater is trying to juggle two different disciplines. Sooner or later, she will have to choose between dance and freestyle if she wants to make serious progress at either.

What's more important to her? Skating with her friends in the friendlier freestyle environment even though she might not achieve as much as a freestyler? Or giving up some camaraderie for a chance at advancing further as an ice dancer, where it seems her strengths may serve her better?

How important is competitive success? If she's doing this all recreationally, she doesn't need to choose, you don't need to add more time unless you want to, and it doesn't matter so much how far or how quickly she advances.

It sounds like you're saying she is unlikely to be really competitive as a freestyler, but might have some success as a dancer (although, of course, it's too early to know much of anything yet). If she wants to give competitive dance a go, perhaps she might want to increase the proportion of dance training while not giving up freestyle entirely. Competitive dancers need quite a bit of off-ice training eventually, though, including perhaps ballroom or other dance classes. There likely won't be time for freestyle at that point.

In the end, she should do what makes her happiest. Good luck!

[RachelSk8er]

She is a child that lives to skate.If she could skate instead of school, she would. At times I have MADE her go to a friends birthday party and miss skating although if she is given the choice skating always comes first. At school she is well liked but often flits on the edges of groups because she just doesn't consider socializing as important as skating. At skating she is there working 100% all the time and quite critical of her own skating. Sets her own goals and time-frames.

I was much the same way as a kid/teenager, and I came out "on the other side" alive.

Skating was life, I didn't have to ever work hard in school to get straight As, so school was boring. Skating, on the other hand, always provided a challenge (it still does), and I think that's why I stuck with it for so long. I did synchro with a little dance and moves on the side (my parents made me choose between synchro and freestyle and the opportunities in synchro were much greater). I alway set my own goals. I told my coaches when I would be testing, and I'd bust my butt to have a test ready for that date. I was very mature for my age because I was on a junior synchro team at age 12, senior at age 13 (minimum ages were younger then) and consequently was always around older girls and our coaches had very high expectations for our behavior. As a result, I was easily annoyed with the immature behavior of kids I went to school with and pretty much just kept to myself. I related much better to my skating friends, some of whom I am still very close with. I also had a lot of friends who played hockey and went to the area all boys schools (that's mostly who I dated or went to dances with as a teenager). In high school, I also worked at the ice rink. My parents didn't really care about all the time I spent at the rink, because I was happy and they figured I was learning more at skating than I was in school.

As a result, as an adult (now I'm 28), I'm extremely competitive, organized, and focused. I went to grad school on a full ride, and am going to law school practically for free, too. I work full-time, go to law school at night, and still skate competitively and am also involved in roller derby. All the years of skating make the cut-throat competitiveness of law school a piece of cake. Most of my close friends are from all the years of skating, and now competing as an adult I've acquired a large, amazing extended skating family.

Moral of the story: If skating is what makes her happy, let her do as much as you can afford to let her do. She'll turn out ok. Even if she quits along the way, it's great character building, and she will still have learned many, many important life lessons. Most of my synchro teammates from when I was a kid/teenager no longer skate, but they look back on all those years very fondly. Don't stress that she's not math/science oriented, not everyone can be a doctor or an engineer (some of us have to be lawyers!). I work for a large corporation, and almost everyone we hire just out of college was a competitive athlete growing up and in college.

[RachelSk8er]

delete...double post

[sk8tmum]

I understand your concern over the entrance exams; they are important.

Simple rule in our house: If you don't manage your time properly, we manage it for you.

If grades aren't acceptable, chores aren't done, volunteer hours, other family commitments aren't met (key core values for us): then other things are reduced, i.e. skating and some of their other activities.

This has ensured that our kids learn to prioritize, meet expectations, and are successful across the board. Do we demand A+ performance in every subject - no. We do expect consistent, effective effort and that they achieve to the best of their abilities (all assignments completed, all tasks attempted) etc. We get a lot of feedback on how mature, balanced and effective they are, and they're the kids who everyone relies on to come through when asked (yup, we're proud of them!)

We made this decision after seeing a lot of kids (we're teachers and parents) who didn't do anything but skating, or swimming or hockey, and whose parents facilitated this - the kids ended up being one-note individuals, and, sadly in some cases, ended up with nothing after their sports careers ended. We respect what sports bring to the table, but - we saw in our own family what happened when a star athlete who didn't "do school" because all of the time was spent on the ball diamond had to quit the sport due to injuries (was being recruited for the major leagues at the time). There is a difference between RachelSk8R who was able to maintain high academic standing/achieve at her ability level while skating, and some of the kids we see who DON'T achieve to their ability levels in school because they spend all of their time on their sports. It's a judgement call ... every kid is different.

As for the training time ... is she sleeping and eating properly, are there any nagging injuries, is she able to participate in other activities or is she exhausted? Is she able to focus on daily life or is she scattered and mentally fried? Is she growing normally, have you had a physiotherapist evaluate her for any body issues? Every kid is different, and their is no formula; my kid at 13 is able to do more than most b/c of physical maturity, and other factors, whereas the schedule would be inappropriate for other 13 year olds that I know. We rely on the advice of experts in the fields of sports medicine, physiotherapy, and coaching ... and our own gut feeling and observations.

[cazzie]

Thanks for comments.

No injuries. Occasionally if she has done a lot of jumping she'll come off and say her landing knee/hip are a bit uncomfortable but its generally fine half an hour later. Keeping up with energy requirements is sometimes a challenge. SHe is very slim and burns energy fast - so - if its a day with 4 hours of training she usually ends up eating 2 chocolates in addition to all the normal healthy meals. She used to have horrendous sleep issues but skating seems to have sorted these!

LOL re the lawyer comments. We were on a long haul flight and dd did her usual chatting to the entire aeroplane and made aquaintance with a law professor who reckoned she had all the characteristics he looked for in potential law students. We weren't sure whether to be flattered or worried.

We do make her miss skating if homework etc. isn't up to scratch - its about our only effective punishment as losing money/television and just about everything else doesn't bother her.

I will be trying to meet with head coach at the rink to discuss where we go. I really want her opinions. With dance she could potentially be doing small novice international competitions within the next year or so (depending on her growth/partners growth etc. etc.) . In some ways I wouldn't like her to give that up but really want her to go where she wants with this. Husband not keen at all on idea of ever going towards this as it will cause her to miss days at school.

This week doing a mini=camp and together with extra dance sessions and patch ice (she's begging for more today although I've said "no") will have done 14 hours on-ice. I'll see how she is in a day or so. Its school holidays so until she is back at school I'll let her do quite a bit but will need to revisit it.

[cazzie]

She's had a week with 14 hours on-ice and 5 off-ice and a similar week since, to be followed by a similar week next week. Still on school holidays. Coaches telling me that she never seems tired on the ice.

So far - seems to be thriving and really, really happy. Obviously these hours won't work with school. I think the dance/free combo keeps her safe - certainly the only time she is sore is if doing double jump after double jump.... but - we'll have to see what happens when she returns to school. Axel quite consistent now, double loop and double salchow a not quite consistent but manages to land some each session. Its just if she keeps going doing them over and over she tires and then her knee gives way (according to her) when she lands.

Dance partner and dance coach working hard to keep her "engaged" so she doesn't quit dance and she's quite pleased with their fiesta tango and swing so she's decided to keep going with that at present. She wants to master couple spins and twizzles as a couple (???) and then make up her mind.

My husband is not that happy - so (her idea of a solution) she has decided to start watching documentaries and improve her general knowledge in the hope that she can skate as much as possible. She's doing a page of mathematics and violin practice 5 times a week as proof that she is being "dedicated" to learning and that skating is not going to "ruin her life".

[TreSk8sAZ]

My husband is not that happy - so (her idea of a solution) she has decided to start watching documentaries and improve her general knowledge in the hope that she can skate as much as possible. She's doing a page of mathematics and violin practice 5 times a week as proof that she is being "dedicated" to learning and that skating is not going to "ruin her life".

Obviously there must be balance. But this just struck me as putting an awful lot of pressure on a 10 1/2 year old child. I know you said that both you and your husband are academics, but not doing as well in maths as literature really isn't the end of the world. Though skating wasn't my entire world while growing up, I had a very similar situation with dance as your daughter has with skating. I was required to take a certain number of hours per week to stay in Company, do fitness classes, etc.

Both of my parents are very maths oriented. Math is my least favorite and by far worst subject. I would get straight A's in everything but whatever mathematics class I was in. I still got all the way through Honors Calculus in high school, and took another calculus class in University. However, I do anything I can to stay away from mathematics. I don't consider my life "ruined." Though my parents initially were baffled as to dance (and other sports I did) and my apparent hatred for anything mathematics, they never put any pressure on me to do anything other than my best. If I didn't do as well in math, it was ok so long as I tried. Yes, that did mean I was forced to do my homework on occasion, I'm not saying there musn't be standards. But at the same time, she is only 10 1/2 and things may change in time. As long as she enjoys it, the life lessons it teaches can be more important than how "far" she can go.

I went to University on a full scholarship (academic, not athletic) and majored in a non-mathematics based major and language minor, then just graduated from law school. I took and enjoyed science classes and such as required and turned out quite well-rounded overall, especially compared to some of my contemporaries who did not have sport or athletics in their life.

[wasamb]

Cazzie, your daughter sounds amazing to me!

Just looking for advice for my dd. For those of you with children at the pre-pre level, how much do they they train?

Thanks!

[Clarice]

wasamb, when my daughter was Pre-Preliminary, she took two lessons a week and skated four days a week. She was about 7 years old.

[wasamb]

Thanks Clarice, I'm in the process of registering for next year and wasn't sure if three days was too much, but I guess it would be fine.