Can tibia bone break from not lacing skates tight?

[JCPerez9902]

My daughter started basic skills learn to skate classes (she has skated before but wanted to get better) and I leaced her skates tight. They were teaching them to sit on ice and stand up (which she did fine) march forward across ice (she did this fine) swizzles and wiggles (she did this fine) but when they got to the rocking horse she fell. Her left ankle twisted in a weird way but she was ok. One of the instructors brought her into the dugout bench area and took of her skate (the left one) to rub her ankle. She then put her skate back on but it didn't look like the right one did (which I tied previously) They went back on the ice and started skating back and forth then they started teaching them to hop in place. My daughter did it the first time just fine but then the second time she fell again and her ankle twisted the wrong way (even worse then the first time she fell and she started crying like crazy. Workers tried to take off her skate and the little movement made her wail louder. They kept telling her to stop crying so they could take her skate off but everytime they touched her she cried even louder. Two of the girl workers were smiling in a huddle of other workers and I said something to them. At the hospital the xray showed a break all the way through the tibia bone and she might needs pins (we will find out for sure this wednesday) What I want to know is if my child could have broken her bone because the skate wasn't laced back up by the worker tight enough? The first time she fell she had the laces the way I tied them which I did tightly....I'm not a professional skater but I skated alot in my youth and occassionally in more recent times so I do know how to lace up skates. Are they allowed to even take off the students skates? And is the rink liable? Could we sue them?

[Becky-on-ice]

I'm so sorry to hear about your daughter, is she better now? I'll say some prayers for her and I hope she is doing better.

About the question: Most rinks have you wear a wrist band or sticker that releases the rink and all of it's staff if somebody is injured during public sessions. Now, I am not sure about during classes. I think my mom has to sign a paper that releases the rink before I can be enrolled for the class, but again, I am not sure.
I hope that info helped a little bit at least.

-Becky

[dbny]

I am a skater and a coach and have a certificate in Ice Arena Management from ISI (cIAM). You cannot sign your rights away, which means that if the rink or its employees acted negligently, then you do have grounds to sue. That said, I doubt it could be proven that relacing the skate caused the injury. However, no one should have attempted to take the skate off or even move your daughter without proper supervision. I'm shocked at the way you say she was treated. Every ISI and USFS basic skills program carries insurance, so if your daughter is a registered student with such a program then she should be covered. Additionally, every rink has liability insurance for just such circumstances.

I hope the break doesn't require surgery and that your daughter heals quickly and thoroughly.

[Isk8NYC]

The injury may have nothing to do with the skates being tied tightly or loosely. There are adult skaters on the board who've had the same/similar bone breakages occur with properly-tied skates.

I've had students tell me that their skates are too tight and that they're in pain without a fall. I've retied their skates just as I would for someone whose skates were too loose. (If there's an injury, I usually sit them down in a box to check them out. Any swelling or extreme pain and I take them off the ice. If they're little enough, I just carry the skater.)

She may have been injured on the first fall and complained to the helper that the skates were too tight. (Because of swelling, not improper tying.) That could be why the helper loosened the laces and why your daughter was holding her foot strangely afterwards. Or the later jump and fall made the injury worse. Just giving you some food for thought.

Injuries do happen in skating, but I understand your anger and concern. Health care costs are high, I assume your insurance won't cover everything. You should give the skating school director or rink manager a status update. That way, they can complete the accident report and fill out any insurance forms that need to be done to help you manage the costs. They can also give you a "rink credit" for what will be unused class sessions in the group program. Some rinks will even refund those fees, but that's unusual.

I know of several rinks in your area that have video monitoring of both the on-ice and off-ice areas. The management can save the footage from the class in question. Don't wait to notify them because they usually erase the files after a few days.

I am sorry this happened so early in your daughter's skating experience and I hope she heals fast and doesn't need surgery.
I also hope you try to get her back on the ice so that she doesn't develop a fear of skating. I've taught "rehab" private lessons with kids who were injured on the ice and it really helps them regain confidence in their skating.

[JCPerez9902]

The first time she fell they skated her to the bench area and took off her skates to massage (it was more like the when trying to build a fire with sticks...the motion of rolling the stick between your palms) her foot (which if there was an injury that would've made it worse) and then she retied them and sent my daughter back on the ice. My daughter didn't complain of pain, didn't look uncomfortable skating and wasn't favoring the leg either. She was smiling and having fun but then not even 10 mins later she falls again and breaks the same foot (that is a huge coincidence) They all kept trying to get her to stand up and that would make her holler in pain. Then they were trying to take her skate off again and that made her holler in pain too. I think they thought she was exaggerating because 1 of the 2 male workers that were kneeling before her on the ice with me kept telling her that her crying was making it worse, 2 of the workers were smiling and looking in her direction and the rest looked amused. I personally think that if they had moved her it could've made the problem worse, if they had made her stand on it she would've fell and hurt herself worse, and if they had taken off her skate they would've hurt her worse. They weren't thinking that it might've been broken so they weren't gonna take it off gently like the EMT's did. I feel like they showed very poor judment in every shape and form in the way they tried to handle this situation. One woman even said "wow 5 workers for one little girl" I know my insurance might not cover all the bills and honestly that is not what I care about. I don't even want to sue for the reasons people might think I want to or for the reasons other people might want to sue. Honestly if it was me I wouldn't care. Don't get me wrong I'd be bummed my leg was broken but I put myself in that situation. I want to sue because I feel it could have been because of them not tying the laces tightly (before she took off my daughters skate she treid to tighten this other boys skates which I pointed out to them that they were extremely loose....I could've put my whole fist in the back of his skates. But it was for nothing because she left them loose...looked like the same way to me but I saw her try to tighten them.) If she had broken her leg with the skates the way I had put them on it would've been my fault (and she fell with the skates the way I put them and didn't break her leg) but then they take off her shoes and tie them up and she breaks that same leg. I feel that they don't care because its not them and its not their child. Plus the fact that they treated her very poorly pisses me off even more. She is already discouraged....she said she never wants to ice skate again and I'm not going to force her to do. She is very traumatized and I feel helpless. I can't take the injury for her, I can't take the pain for her, I can't do anything for her. It broke my heart to hear begging them to please not move her cause it hurt and them not caring....it took my walking onto the ice (while they tried to keep me off mind you. I had to tell them that she was my daughter and I was going on that ice and that if they wanted to take the chance of getting in my way they were going to need 2 ambulances because one worker put her hand on me and told me I couldn't get on the ice and I told her I was her mother and all she said was sorry but you can't come on the ice so I told her that and walked around her.) I can't believe it takes me walking on the ice to protect my child for them to leave her alone cause then they were asking me to calm her down so that they could check her foot. I told the kid (he couldn't have been more than 17 or 18 years old) that he wasn't an EMT or a doctor (he was the ice skate renatl guy) so he wasn't going to touch her. I don't know what I want but I do know I don't like the treatment towards my child but thank you all for your concerns and sympathy

[Becky-on-ice]

If you don't mind me asking, which ice rink was this?

[JCPerez9902]

The Ice House in Hackensack, New Jersey

[Query]

After breaking a leg skating, I tried to get reliable information on what causes injuries, and how to prevent them. I got contradictory advice from various medical and sports training sources, and came to my own personal conclusions. It's hard to prove anything without the controlled tests that would be completely unethical to perform.

As you know, most skaters believe loose laces and loose skates make injuries much more likely, because it is easier to lose control of what the skate and blade do.

Almost all athletes get hurt. On average (according to a leading athletic training textbook) they get injured (presumably badly enough to be reported to medical personel and interfere with play) every 6 months. Injuries are part of athletics.

As a one-time skater you know that most of the time a child falls on the ice, even if they cry, it is nothing serious. People are taught that the best thing is to encourage them to stop crying, to see if they can get up, and smile so they understand everything is OK - unless they have an obvious injury, or there is a substantial probability their spine is injured. If your child wouldn't stop crying, or has trouble getting up, anyone with basic first aid training might have taken off the boot so they could see if anything obvious was wrong. That much of your description sounds more or less like common practice. The rest is a matter of degree those of us who didn't witness the incident can not properly judge.

Most instructors do their honest best to create a good compromise of fun and safety. They feel badly when anyone gets hurt, and wonder if they could have done better. But I don't think suing coaches who try to help kids and others have fun is a good idea, unless they did something extreme.

But your child has our sympathy.

[singerskates]

Was this during public skating, an ISI Learn to Skate or an USFSA Learn to Skate?

[JCPerez9902]

It was a US figure skating basic skills program. She fell doing the 2 foot hop in place (while no one was spotting her) Yes i do know that children fall skating and that it is likely to be nothing serious but I also know my daughter. I knew it was serious once she screamed in pain when they tried to get her to stand up. I witnessed the whole thing and I saw how her ankle bent at a weird angle. I am a nurse and I know what basic first aid training entails. And even I being an RN would not have know at first glance that it was broken. It was bruised and swollen and slightly raised in the middle of her shin (where the break is) If they had gotten her skate off they then would've had to pull up the leg of her sweats and then her tights or completely remove them in order to see it but they would've misdiagnosed it. And the boy trying to make this diagnosis was the skate rental guy so I doubt he would've been able to accurately tell if she had a broken tibia especially since he was trying to look at her ankle which was swollen so he would've thought it was sprained. I don't want to sue cause my child got hurt...I am pissed about that but that is not the reason. You were not there so you did not witness the way she or I were treated. They should never have tried to assess the problem themselves they are not trained in removing items without making the injury worse and they should've stopped prodding her when it was obvious that moving her leg was extremely painful to her. Helping kids have fun and keping them safe is one thing but standing in a huddle amused or smiling cause they think a child is exaggerating or being over dramatic is ridiculous. Adults handle pain better than children so if my daughter wants to cry she can. They didn't feel badly and they didn't show remorse. None of them showed sympathy to her, they didn't wish her well or to feel better. And I'm sorry but I don't agree with the treatment of my child and if she wasn't my child and I was one of the other parents I would still be appalled. After trying to get in contact with the manager all morning yesterday 04/19 and continuously getting sent to voicemail I went down there asked to speak to him. They asked me what it was about and I told them my daughter broke her foot there on friday 04/18 and I want to get her fee refunded. One of the instructors who was there when everything happened said oh so it was broken and I said yes. Her tibia is broken all the way through. It seemed like he didn't believe me cause he said the tibia....the bone in the front? I said yes and he said ohhhhh do you have proof....so I gave them a copy of her release papers and he reads it and says hmmmphhhh. So either this is common practice (as you say) and almost all instructors and workers in this ice rink lack people skills or they're just extremely cold hearted, rude, and their customer service sucks

[dbny]

The Ice House in Hackensack, New Jersey

Now I'm really 8O8O8O.

I understand how you feel. I have two daughters, so I know that horrible feeling when you think someone is hurting your child. In spite of your anger, and in spite of the poor way you feel your daughter was treated, the likelihood is very much that her injury was no one's fault. Kids and adults skate every day on public sessions with their skates "dangerously" loose, and yet bones are rarely broken. In my over 7 years of coaching, I've seen 3 broken legs, and each time it was simply a freak accident. If a toe pick gets stuck in the ice and the skater's body twists in the fall, it can break a bone. I know of more than one broken ankle that happened that way. I myself broke my wrist in a freak accident during a lesson. I have never seen a skater hurt by a coach's negligence. Even though the helpers caused your daughter pain in trying to get her up and in trying to get her skate off, they did not cause the injury. Every rink has a policy of no non-staff on the ice without skates, and every time I've seen a child hurt, the parents have prevailed and gone on the ice, but the staff has to do as they've been told and try to prevent it. I agree that you should speak with the skating director. Let her/him know exactly what your complaints are!

[dbny]

OOPS! I wrote my post, but then got involved with something else, came back and posted. Then saw your next post. I am really appalled at the way you and your daughter have been treated. I've worked in 4 different rinks and skated in many more, and have never seen anything like that. The rink where I currently work has given everyone strict instructions not to try to move a fallen skater in any way. The skate guards call a security guard who calls EMS, and someone stays with the skater on the ice until EMS arrives. Blankets or extra jackets are brought out to warm the skaters. Coaches are sometimes told not to have contact with an injured student/family until any legal issues are resolved, but I can't imagine anyone acting so incredibly cold in person! Just one more thing - this is a public forum, and if you do sue, you may want to be careful about what you say here. We all know what lawyers can do with someone else's words.

[flippet]

So....you're wanting to sue because you don't like the way you/your daughter were treated?

You're upset that the staff tried to remove the skate/manipulated the leg, although you said that even you, an RN, wouldn't have known it was broken. How on earth do you expect the staff to know that?

Rink staff see injuries all the time---and even a kid with a minor injury can scream bloody murder and act like he's being tortured. Doesn't make it true. (My son is one of these that exaggerates injury to the extreme.) How are the staff supposed to know the difference?


What do you expect to accomplish by suing? What's the end result that you want to see?

Please answer this question, I'm entirely serious.

Because any end result is simply going to end up being vindictive. Your daughter's leg will still be broken.

The most likely result will be serious damage to the skating program, possibly even shutting it down. Legal fees are expensive, and rinks often won't take the risk. At two different rinks I used to skate at (two separate incidents), a public-skater fell, injured himself, and then sued the rink. The end result was that there were no more public skates--period. (One rink was a university rink, and they no longer allowed the general public to skate there, although it was an alumni who did the suing.)

What will happen is you'll ruin the fun for everyone else, and have the entire community pissed at you, and rightfully so.

Ice is slippery. Accidents happen. If you don't want to take the risk, then don't. But don't take the risk, then bi+ch and moan when injury does occur, and try to blame that injury on someone else. It's a part of life, and it's the risk you took. Put your big girl panties on and deal with it.

:giveup:


Not to mention, my guess is that the skates don't fit right to begin with, which would be your fault, not the rink's.

[AgnesNitt]

I'm trying not to be dense, but I don't see how the injury could have happened.
I've been thrown off horses at the canter and going over jumps and didn't break anything. Breaking a tibia is like the kind of injury you get in a car wreck, playing football, or having debt collector go after you with a tire iron. It's a high force injury.

In an article from SLATE (http://www.slate.com/id/2213255/) magazine, here's a quote on the force to break a tibia "Immobilize your ankle and knee and use a heavy instrument with minimal surface area. It takes a surprising amount of pressure to break your shin. (In fact, the weight of an average American man would not be sufficient to fracture a leg, even if the mass were concentrated on a spot the size of a quarter.) To do the trick, you'll first want to strap the leg to a fixed object—a cinderblock, maybe—below the knee and above the ankle. That will prevent your joints from buckling before the tibia breaks. Then you'll want to choose the heaviest, smallest weapon with which you can reliably hit your target—a hammer would be more effective than a mallet, for example. The wound is likely to be quite unpleasant, so you might consider drugs to alleviate the pain. "

I'd like to hear from board members with more skating experience than me to explain how a tibia could be broken all the way through during a beginning skate lesson. I mean it's the old force=mass times acceleration formula (F=M*A). If the kid doesn't weigh very much, and isn't going very fast then the fall can't generate enough force to break a heavy long bone.

[Query]

>I'm trying not to be dense, but I don't see
>how the injury could have happened.

Warning: My reply involves physics, and will be incomprehensible to many.

I'm neither a doctor nor a material scientest, nor have I attempted a detailed numeric simulation (which would require a detailed knowledge of the accident and of the girl's internal material composition and structure, as well as a careful analysis of the fracture and muscle/ligament tear patterns), but this looks like pretty basic physics. Yes, pound for pound, solid bone is stronger than steel against compression (if I remember right), just as ligament is stronger than steel against tension. But remember that real world materials are not equally strong in all directions, and also that long bones are partly hollow.

(Incidentally, I met a person with a tibia break that occurred in a dance fall. I myself broke a fibula in a skating fall, which is weaker than the tibia, but which breaks less often because less force is usually supported by it.)

Bone is a form of limestone (mostly calcium carbonate). The bond structure gives it a lot of compressive strength, which is what the hammer test likely measured, depending a bit on how the test was done. But bending bone causes the part on the outside of the curve to stretch, unless something else, like strategically used muscle tension outside the bend, compresses it - and like any form of limestone, bone has very little tensile strength. So it fractures on the outside of the bend. (E.g., if you strike an arm or leg hard in the middle of a bone, the bone bends inwards from the impact, and the fracture usually occurs on the opposite side. According to the available literature, bone does this much more frequently than it shatters on the side of the impact.)

She probably fought the fall too hard. The tensile power of the muscles that fought it bent the bone slightly, and fractured the bone. (Alternately, she could have reached the end of her range of motion, due to poor body part trajectories, and the tensile force of ligament or perhaps the joint capsule could have done the same thing.) Possibly before she hit, possibly after, in which latter case the impact from the ground added additional force to the bend.

(This may be too simple. Some muscles and ligaments pull diagonally, in such a way as to twist the bone, which can create a spiral fracture pattern. And sometimes sheer forces play a role. The body is a very complicated structure, and as far as I've been able to find out, physics/engineering/material science style analysis of injuries and body structures is still in its infancy - between that and my lack of credentials, you should take this whole discussion with a grain of salt.)

This was probably complicated by the common fear reaction which convulses the external muscles, creating friction which freezes the joints so range of motion goes to almost zero. Since the joints were unable to move freely to absorb the force through acceleration, both forces (tension, impact) were able to act more strongly against the bone.

In short she fell badly, and her own incorrect muscle use likely did a lot of the damage. If fault were assessed, it might be for insufficient safe fall practice. But the fact that she fell at all might be partly explained by loose boots or laces. Statistically, most childhood (and elderly) injuries occur during falls.

Yes, some people survive horse falls, and higher falls yet, with little or no injury. But extensive fall practice is very common among those who practice trick riding, and the better athletes manage to stay relaxed, tuck and roll (and to get out of the way of the horse). Low level skate lessons usually allocate a few minutes of fall practice in the first lesson or two, which is often insufficient to overcome the instincts of a lifetime. That's why I've tried to convince people fall practice (http://mgrunes.com/falling.html) makes sense, with minimal success.

In practice, very few people in the athletic community would be sympathetic to anyone who sued athletic staff who didn't deliberately cause an injury, and I'd bet if it went to court many would step forward to testify that the rink did things exactly right. The daughter and the parent would both likely gain the hatred of the local skating community, and the daughter might find other athletic programs fearful to allow her to participate. I know that sounds cold, but, at least in the US, the athletic community constantly feels itself under threat by the legal community.

If the motive is to suggest better actions rather than greed, a better technique is to have a calm talk with management. They would likely respond by reviewing proper actions with the staff.

BTW, if a rink allowed skating parents to step onto the ice in street shoes, many would fall and be injured themselves. Some rinks allow medical evacuations by staff and EMTs in street shoes, some don't.

(Sometimes insurance companies impose restrictions as well.)

[Kay]

Quite frankly, the most concerning red flag that I read from this story is the fact that your young daughter was able to fracture her tibia from such a low impact, in such a severe way. She did not fall from a great height, nor did she experience any external force beyond her own body weight, and yet a fracture occurred to a load-bearing bone. Typically when children break bones, they are engaged in activities involved high speed or force, such as bike riding, car accident, fall from a tree, etc.

I would urge you to further investigate whether your daughter has additional musculoskeletal concerns. A physician can discuss with you ways to investigate both bone and body health to rule out any other underlying pathologies.

Ensuring adequate calcium in her diet, sufficient body weight, engaging in weight bearing activities, and so forth can all be strategies used to promote bone health, which is critical for females during their youth, once underlying pathologies are ruled out.

Additionally, skating is a sport that you engage in at your own risk. If for some reason you are uncomfortable having the staff retie your daughter's skates, then it was your obligation to intervene when you saw this happening, as retying their skates would be considered normal practice under the program she is enrolled in.

[dbny]

Low level skate lessons usually allocate a few minutes of fall practice in the first lesson or two, which is often insufficient to overcome the instincts of a lifetime.

:lol::lol::lol:

Almost everything about skating goes against the instincts of a lifetime!

If a lawsuit seeks nothing more than medical expenses and possibly a requirement to train non-professional staff, I see no harm in it. That's what insurance is for. OTOH, I think any insurance company would be aghast to hear that untrained staff insisted the child get up and tried to remove her skate.

[JCPerez9902]

what everyone is misunderstanding is that I DON"T want to sue but management is avoiding me at all costs. Yes I did say I'm an RN and wouldn't have been able to tell without the xray (just like the doctor couldn't tell without it as well) but that is what I meant. The skate rental guy is not trained in the medical field...common practice is to not move the person or the injury site cause any movement almost always aggravates it and makes the problem worse so yes they shouldn't have touched my daughter especially after I her mother told them to stop. My daughter is 9 years old and is 4'10.5" and she is in perfect health. Not everyone is built the same way....she broke her bone in that fall whereas someone else might not have. And frankly Flippet my main concern is my child's health and safety. You're going to sit there and say that if you were in my situation and treated the way my child was cause I could give 2 sh*ts about how I was treated you wouldn't feel bad for your kid and be pissed....don't bother saying no cause you'd be a bold faced liar. Second of all I am wearing my big girl panties which is why I have been civil....are you though? cause from your post you sound very childish. And seeing as to how I've been buying my daughter shoes since she was born I do know her size and I do know how to check and see if shoes are too small or big on her. I did try to intervene by getting the workers attention but I was behind glass and they couldn't hear me....it was noisy. I am not b*tching and moaning but there are some here who are being b*tchy. If you all can get this upset over the thought of my suing the rink when I didn't say I was going to do that )all I did was ask what I should do in this case) then why can't I get upset over what my child went through. I just wanted to know if that could happen for any reason...skates being loose, impact of fall, the way her ankle twisted anything. This is a 9 year old child....if it was one of the toddlers taking the snowplow sam course would you guys feel the same way you do now cause I still would even if it wasn't my child. This will be my last post...Thanks to those who showed nothing but concern and gave their sympathies and weren't judgemental. To the others I'm going to take a page from Flippet's book and be childish by saying "FLIPPET"

[flippet]

And seeing as to how I've been buying my daughter shoes since she was born I do know her size and I do know how to check and see if shoes are too small or big on her.


Bingo. Skates are not supposed to fit like shoes. If you bought her shoe size, then the skates are probably about two sizes too big.


If you all can get this upset over the thought of my suing the rink when I didn't say I was going to do that

Really? From your initial post:

And is the rink liable? Could we sue them?

You were sure thinking about it.



This will be my last post...Board suicides are so much fun, aren't they? :roll:

[SkatEn]

This is a tragic and unfortunate accident.

JCPerez, I don't see why you shouldn't sue. If the rink management is trying not to be sued and tried placate the customer(you), then it'd be ridiculous if you sue. But since from your side of the story, it's nothing like that, I guess suing will be the only way to achieve the end result.

Flippet, you could have tried to be more tactful. While the boards are definitely a place of freedom of speech, her daughter was seriously injured. I would be upset and reasonably so. Peace out:bow:

I've tried walking on ice. It wasn't that bad. Not as slippery as you would have though, actually. I'm not saying it's fine to walk, just saying that the OP's walking is of a smaller significance than her daughter needing the comfort during a painfully traumatic time.

Personal experience: What happened at my old rink was that this lady probably broke her ankle. Didn't see what happened, but she wasn't making a lot of noise. The staff came onto the ice and then I saw blankets and hot drinks given to her. Paramedics arrived, then staff took a wheelchair and wheeled her in where the paramedics did their stuff. What happened was that there was minimum intervention by the staff, probably enough to make sure the public skater was comfortable enough until help arrives.

Not much point to my post. Just my one cent.:)

Lots of good healing thought to the young girl who is injured. Pretty sad when these cases aren't handled right and someone becomes scarred for life.

[Sessy]

My 2 cents: I broke my ankle from getting stuck with a toepick in the ice when I stepped out of a spin and fell over backwards. This was not diagnosed for 6 months. Even the doctor thought it was merely sprained. Next, I got all sorts of difficulties walking etc.

But, is any of that the rink's or my coach's fault? Of course not. They did all they could and should have done.

Freak accidents just happen. Accept it.

[dbny]

Freak accidents just happen. Accept it.

It seems to me that the OP is complaining more about the treatment by staff after the accident than the accident itself, although she does question the boot lacing.

[Isk8NYC]

What I want to know is if my child could have broken her bone because the skate wasn't laced back up by the worker tight enough?

The first time she fell she had the laces the way I tied them which I did tightly....I'm not a professional skater but I skated alot in my youth and occassionally in more recent times so I do know how to lace up skates.

Are they allowed to even take off the students skates? And is the rink liable? Could we sue them?Seems to me that the initial thought was to sue based on the retied skates causing the broken bone. The story later changed to suing because they prevented the parent from getting on the ice (all rinks do that) and that they tried to remove her boot. Now it's emotional distress.

None of us knows what happened, but just from the OP's side of the fence, I don't think she can sue for any of those reasons. There are many sides to every injured skater story (the skater's, the spectator's, the on-ice crew, the rink mgt, etc.) The smirking spectators? Know what? I've seen teens smirking like that when they're just really nervous and scared. It's an act of bravado. We've all met people that we'd like to wipe the smirk off of, lol.


In all honesty, I think the OP was angry and upset, which can lead to overreaction and anonymous board ranting. We've all been there, so let's cut him/her some slack.

I don't know many people who work at standalone ice rinks and have medical training. To cut down on insurance costs, most rinks rely on the Good Samaritan law that protects amateurs. At my current rink, we are blessed with a great aquatics facility that provides us with Red Cross Certified lifeguards wearing flip-flops and swimsuits/shorts on the ice when there's a serious accident. God bless them, they're my heroes! I have Red Cross training but I'd rather someone else take charge and these ladies always do a great job.

A young lady fell and injured her knee badly a few weeks ago to the point where she couldn't get back up. The first thing the lifeguard did was to remove the skates. She later told me it was partly for her own safety - she didn't want to get kicked with those nasty toepicks by accident, lol.

This year, I had a group lesson student who overreacted regularly and while I was used to her dramatics, the other instructor was bug-eyed when the kid backed into someone else and fell. The girl started crying and claiming that the other kid knocked her down. I saw it happen so I cut off the wailing with "Why are you crying? You ran into HER and fell; she did absolutely nothing." That's why that girl's mother ASKED the SD to have me teach her daughter - she knows that I won't put up with the dramatics that others will. The skater got a better lesson as a result of not losing half the lesson to coddling and the girl's behavior improved.

In my mind, the important lessons from this story are:
. Teach your children not to overact and cry wolf. If the kid fell and cried like a banshee the first time, it's no small wonder that they didn't take her seriously the second time.
. Teach your children to calm themselves if someone's trying to help them. She could have injured someone else if she was kicking. (I refuse to put up with that - I forcefully tell the skater to stop kicking because I can't help them if they're trying to hurt me.)
. If there's an injury, disperse the crowd. You only need one or two people providing first aid. The rest are just gawkers, which will aggravate the situation.
. If there is an on-ice incident, coaches should write out a report at the time, before the incident fades in their memory. You can keep it in your appt book just in case something comes up later.
. Good customer service means trying to manage upset parents. I've been in situations where a mother lost her purse at an ice rink and the woman was just crazed - you'd have thought her child was abducted. There was NOTHING anyone could say that was right. Sometimes, it's better to just say nothing.
. I think all rinks should have a refund policy for injuries that are documented with a doctor's note.

[S8Gr8]

Not trying to generate hate mail, just my two cents worth...

Have we really progressed to the point where we cannot take responsibility for ourselves, and also accept that life has risks? Life happens, and it's not always about blaming someone else. Instead of handling the situation like a mature adult, the OP is immediately playing the blame game and trying to dodge responsibility for actions that you took. Stop being so sue-happy.

Look, life is a series of decisions that you make to put yourself in more or less risky situations. No situation is ever without risk (Life is risky - it will kill you) but you can control the risk you are willing to expose your daughter to. Sports are a higher level risk than say, a chess game, and figure skating has a notable risk for moderate injuries. That's why there are always "Engage at your own risk" signs and waivers.

Personally, I am a skydiver and you know what? I take full responsibility for my decisions each and every day. It is me that puts myself in that situation, me that jumps out of the plane, and me that is ultimately responsible for my own actions. Not anyone else. Period. If something happens, it's not about blaming the parachute company, my pilot, my trainers, etc. It is about me thinking about all of the risks inherent in the situation and deciding that for me personally, I'll willing to give it a shot. I am not saying that you need to skydive, but the exact same principles apply - if you are worried about the risks inherent in figure skating for your daughter, and you are not willing to accept that there is a 'risk' side to the 'risk/reward ratio' than it is your responsibility not to engage in the activity.

Instead, why don't you choose to be a fabulous role model for your daughter? This is an excellent opportunity to teach her how to handle herself when life presents obstacles. You accept that there is a risk/reward ratio, and sometimes you end up on the numerator of that equation. You can either spend your life trying to blame everyone else about the challenges you face, or you can stand up, brush yourself off, and make better decisions in the future.

Think about it, and think about the type of person you want to be.

[AxelBaby]

I understand that what happened here was terrible for the OP. But injuries do happen. All the time.

I believe the OP said that she would not post again, but if she does I just wanted to make one statement.

Before taking any kind of legal action think of the repercussions for everyone, yourself, your daughter, as well as others.

If you attempt to sue the rink, or any of its staff members the following is likely to happen: 1) you are going to subject your daughter to more testing, meetings with doctors and lawyers, and really more anguish over the whole ordeal. 2) When all is said and done you wont really receive any money - yes maybe it will cover your extra medical expenses, but honestly, anything else you recover will mostly go to the lawyer. They don't tend to hand out awards for pain and suffering for a broken bone in a 9 year old. 3) Look at the impact on the rink - they will have to hire a lawyer and pay them out of pocket, in order to recoup the costs associated with this expense they will likely cut ice time, staff members, coaches etc. This is going to effect the entire local skating community.

Just my two cents...

I'm really am sorry your daughter got hurt. But it doesn't sound like there was negligence on the part of the staff members by re-tying her skates. And I believe you said she was nine years old (I could be wrong). Honestly, at nine she should be tying her own skates. No one else should have to do it for her.