Campbell's Discussion - Mens

[adrianchew]

I just saw it on TV. They chacked Matt Savovie! :evil:

Initial thoughts - Plushenko, Yagudin and Weiss were the best 3 of the night. Since both Plushenko and Yagudin had problems, I don't see why Weiss wasn't scored any higher... I do think Plushenko and Yagudin were somewhat overmarked.

Goebel and Honda look really not in shape overall yet at this point of time. Performances are very below par for what they're capable of producing.

[hydro]

i never understood something. If the competition is made for TV, then why chack skaters??? just don't invite them! i am seriously disappointed that they chacked Matt Savoie, considering he skated well here. who did they chack for the ladies?

[Ellyn]

I didn't take notes on the men or try to "judge" from TV because I already knew the men's results last night.

No one landed a clean quad, but Yagudin had a good 3axel-3toe. That still counts for something -- no doubt about first for him in my mind. Just from memory I could see it going either way between Weiss and Plyushenko. Weiss had better spins; Plyush had bigger jumps. What was the actual triple count? Do you give Weiss a little bit of partial credit for a credible but incomplete attempt of a jump no one else has ever landed? How did their speed compare?

[rack]

I thought there'd be several posts by now. Is everybody west coast here, or is it possible you all have lives?

Anyway, I too thought Weiss was underscored. And I'm sorry I didn't get to see Matt Savoie- I always enjoy his skating.

I really like Honda, but the toilet paper has got to go.

And finally, I have great respect for both Frank Carroll and Lori Nichol, but I can't imagine what they were thinking of when they came up with that program for Tim Goebel. He isn't exactly a hotbed of romantic passion (when was the last time you heard his skating called Byronic?) and even if he could pull off skating to a stretch of solo piano music, as soon as he makes that scrunchy face of his while spinning, the effect would be destroyed anyway.

I'm a firm believer that really great champions in any field succeed by turning weaknesses into strengths. The American In Paris program made a positive out of Goebels' born-in-the-USA quality. Give him light and likable- maybe some John Phillip Sousa. What he has now is like asking Jim Carrey to play Heathcliff.

[Tigger]

hydro - They chacked Jen Robinson, which I'm not too happy about. That's for the Ladies thread though...

Really subpar programs from all the guys IMO, but it's also early in the season so I wasn't as shocked by that as I would be if it was Skate Canada, Euros, Cdns, etc.

I was impressed by Mike. I don't usually like his skating, but he seemed to be the only one out there who showed a bit of spark to his skating.

The rest....I also agree w/Yags in first. Sure he fell on the quad, but so did everyone who tried one. As has been said, he did land not just a triple axel/triple toe, but a gorgeous solo triple axel too. He definitely deserved to be in first.

I also think Plushy and Mike could have flipped flopped in positions, but I don't have a problem w/the top three.

Oh and did my eyes deceive me, or did Tim actually show a bit of a lean and trust his edge in that spread eagle he did? We had company when he was skating and I was trying to talk to them and watch the competition at the same time, so.... It would be wonderful if he did. I miss seeing true spread eagles.

Now, could someone please start the Ladies thread!?! Pretty, pretty please!?! :)

[sk8rzmom]

So they showed the last place skater and not the 5th . Again Matt gets slighted. And he palced higher than our Olympic bronze medalist. I'd like to have seen his skate. Figures.

[Pupiczech]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rack

I really like Honda, but the toilet paper has got to go.

My thoughts exactly, and in fact, it was going! Longer and longer and longer.

I have a tape of Michael Hopfes from a few years ago and he had the same thing happen to him in a competition. This "ribbon" or something on his costume kept getting longer and longer and at the end of the program it was so long in his scratch spin it wrapped around him several times. I never watched the program, just that danged "ribbon" unraveling!

[Ellyn]

As for the triple count, I got 7 for Plyush (but iffy whether to count the second 3axel), 5 for Weiss, who didn't even attempt a loop unless I completely missed it somehow and only tried one axel. Does that help explain things?

[on the other hand, I only saw 3 spins for Plyush, although I wasn't writing them down so maybe I did miss one]

[jcspkbfan]

Did anyone else :lol: at Dick's introduction to Plushenko's program--now I'm even more convinced Dick's spending a little of his spare time on certain skating forums! I was actually a little disappointed Dick didn't make a similar introduction before Weiss' program. ;)

ITA with the comments made about Takeshi's outfit--definitely a case of "great program, bad costume!" Hopefully the next time he skates this number, he'll have a different outfit to go with it--or at least a good pair of scissors!

[NorthernLite]

Originally posted by rack
Is everybody west coast here, or is it possible you all have lives?

Tim Goebel...isn't exactly a hotbed of romantic passion (when was the last time you heard his skating called Byronic?)


PML. You are really smokin' today, rack. But isn't sitting around obssessing about skating 24/7 a Life? Sort of? I like to think so.

Part way through Tim's program I thought, I like this music -- and yet it somehow *didn't* quite fit. Maybe because of what you said -- his lack of Byronlicousness.

I didn't have the sense at all that Yags had even landed that many jumps -- it was kind of an uninspired performance to me, in contrast to Weiss' "I da man" attitude. Takeshi started out really strong, despite evidently having been accosted and t.p.'d backstage.

Um, that's all. The ladies outshined the men.

[Arsenette]

I just got online.. I'm still recooping from hospital.. :roll: DANG IT!!! I missed it!! Can anyone send me a copy via mail? Please PM me!!

[duane]

i also thought weiss was undermarked, especially in his presentation. i would have had weiss in first, yagudin second, and plushenko third.

however, it was difficult to really enjoy the competition. it was too much of a splatfest.

[Mayra]

The men were so uninspired that I don't feel inspired enought to write about them. ;)

Seriously though I think Yagudin, Plushenko, Honda and Goebel all looked like they would like nothing more than to be on a month long vacation.

Weiss looked to be in great shape and actually excited to be there. His jumps, spins and choreography all looked crisp.

[Alexeiskate]

Weiss 4lutz was short of rotations, but his body was straight when he came down and hence was able to stand up on the landing. I have to question the futility of constantly doing a two-footed quad jump in competition. How much credit do the judges actually give a skater for attempting a difficult jump and standing up on it ? Overall it was a nice program, but I think a well-known choreographer could also help the program, because Lisa's choreography is starting to look the same to me.

Poor Timmy. The program and music don't seem to fit him at this point. I'm sure it'll improve by Skate Canada.

I fast forward through Alexei and Evegeny. I like them but can't stand watching those same routines any more. What was the deal with Dick Button saying before Evgeny's program that his Carmen is something we havent' seen before ? Was Dick trying to be funny ?

[marlyn]

I also agree with Weiis being the inspired skate of the night, however I would have still placed him behind Yags....those 3 axels were gorgeous! Plushy should have been 3rd IMO but, hey, I am no judge. As far as poor Takeshi.....I like his new program, but agree the toilet Paper has got to go...this isn't Ice Dance for Pete's sake!
Whatever the level of skating, I was just happy to finally get the season under way.

[Dustin]

Just finished watching on TV, some things looked different than they did live last night.

1. Weiss 5.7/5.8 - The best by far.
2. Yagudin 5.6/5.8 - Good program, not completely solid or as confident as Weiss.
3. Plushenko 5.5/5.8 - good presentation, but the jumps werent good compared to Alexei or Michael.
4. Savoie - Good program, love the landing positions and it was an innovative and unique program.
5. Honda - talk about a strange costume! Jumps werent right and the program was boring to me.
6. Goebel - Ouch... One tough program for him.

Warmup was a total splatfest - worse than the event.

[NiceIce]

racks comments are hysterical:D and ITA

also, Plushenko looks absurd and needs a makeover..or total overhaul.
The bob haircut with bangs has got to go!!!
His program is so lacking in subtlety, with an outdated style of costume and overdone choreography as if he is desperate to squeeze every ounce of "spanish" out of it. He is so talented but is going in the wrong direction with this uncreative program.

[purplecat]

I thought Mike looked very good. I like the new program. But then again, he looked good last year in the first event of the season (Goodwill Games) and then didn't fare too well later, so I have guarded optimism about his season. Hope he does well at Skate America.

Speaking of Skate America...I hope we get to see Matt on TV there!

Tim looked very tired. I don't think his new program does anything for him...it drags him down unfortunately....I don't care for the music.

Takeshi's new program is okay, but I like some of his other free programs better.

Alexei and Plushenko also looked tired, understandably. But it was refreshing to see Evgeny in a nice costume with NO gloves!

[Badams]

it's really nice to read a thread about a men's comp. that weiss was in and not have it be a "let's bash mike" thread! thanks guys!;) i really think michael ahould have been first too. but i think i am biased because i like him. and poor timmy. hopefully he will get back on track!

[lrngsk8-gabi]

Usually I'm a real Bash Mikey/Love Plushy kinda watcher; but son of a whatever, Weiss was the best looking performer, I would not have objected to his being first.

Yag and Plushy - well, I'm truly bored with Yags, but Plushy was the most off musically I think I've ever seen him (to me that's a huge deal).

I really have a hopeful spot in my heart for Honda - and about the costume, well, yea, but he WAS doing the Mummy. Hopefully someone will take the snippers to him.

The guys just were in lousy shape. We know they can all do much better. So overall I'm just going to withhold any projections...g

[Mazurka Girl]

Honda can do impressions of a mummy, he doesn't need to take it quite so literally. The toilet paper costume was extremely distracting. Skaters spend so much time working out concepts & having their music edited, how come some of them don't talk to designers about what does (horizontal "bandages" wrapped in various places) & doesn't cut into the projection of their body line? You have to wonder if he stopped at the grocery as an afterthought on the way to the competition & tagged it on.

Mike has shown improvement since last year & I'm glad he did well. He has some nice connecting moves, but adding some more difficulty to his footwork would probably be helpful against some of the other competitors this season.

I agree with everyone who said Plush needs a makeover & time for some new post-Olympics programs for Plush & Yags.

[luckiest1]

I agree about Takeshi's costume....looked like an afterthought to me.... kinda like, hmm, what can we do about a costume for this early event? Well, TP is inexpensive...LOL However, I really like the program - the arm movements are so fluid, they just flow from one element to another. The fact that he went for 3 quads (although didn't land any) makes me think he must be landing them in practise - so I am not overly worried. With a bit more mileage, and a new costume, I can't wait to see this one again at Skate Canada.

I give credit to Michael Weiss for going out there with a new program and laying it down. He is not one of my favourite skaters, but he definitely had the program of the night. And maybe soon he'll do more "freedom" blades stuff, and won't have time for the Mike Pike. The blades are cool. The Mike Pike is not.

[AxelAnnie22]

Originally posted by adrianchew
I just saw it on TV. They chacked Matt Savovie! :evil:

What is this word chacked? Did these people get hit on the head?

[AxelAnnie22]

Originally posted by lrngsk8-gabi


The guys just were in lousy shape. We know they can all do much better. So overall I'm just going to withhold any projections...g I have to say (well, I probably don't HAVE TO, but I will) I am insulted that the guys would be so ill prepared. I just don't understand it.

Now, I know they have been busy. I know they have not had a break. I know they may be tired. I know this is the first time out for new programs. However, it is not as though they didn't know this competition was coming up. Some skated like they received a call on Thursday, late in the day, saying "Come on down and skate around!" And, the guys, particularly, always start out with a major splat fest.

These skaters are professionals. Being unprepared, in my book, is not acceptable. (And, in my book, that goes for all skaters). One of the commentators said that Tim "only had two weeks to put this program together". Excuse me :roll: I can just see me telling my clients that I only had two weeks to get their legal papers complete, so they are only 30% finished, but by the end of the season, I will have them in good shape. Oh, they need to be signed today.....no problem, just sign, and I will get to the rest of the info when I have had a rest. Doesn't float in my world.

[HSF]

AA22, The term "chacked" was coined in the early 90's. There was a US skater named Michael Chack who had wonderful talent but had trouble performing under pressure at major competitions. Apparently Michael performed the "skate of his life" at a competition--a performance that brought tears to the eyes--and it was not shown on TV.

Skating fans began using the saying "he/she was chacked" to refer to a skaters performance not being shown on TV.

HSF

[Oracle]

To be exact it was the '93 US Nationals. We saw the performances of the men who placed 1,2,4,6, & 8. Chack was 3rd (& Rudy Galindo finished 5th.)

[Rogue]

Originally posted by AxelAnnie22
What is this word chacked? Did these people get hit on the head?

Chacked is a term skating fans use when a skater is not shown in the televised broadcast, especally when skaters who finished behind them are shown. It was coined from the year Michael Chack won the bronze medal at US Nationals, but was not included in the TV broadcast.

[lrngsk8-gabi]

AAnnie - :lol: after seeing the first two guys I literally said "they look like they are just out there casually doing a practice round"

But in fairness, they are NOT professionals and I think that's part of the problem.

We now have amateur skaters doing playing the role of eligible and non eligible and I think many of them feel like they can't afford to turn anything down.

I don't like it - but I really don't take this competition very seriously anymore, which breaks my heart because I used to MUCH prefer the pros...g

[AxelAnnie22]

Originally posted by lrngsk8-gabi
AAnnie - :lol: after seeing the first two guys I literally said "they look like they are just out there casually doing a practice round"

But in fairness, they are NOT professionals and I think that's part of the problem.

We now have amateur skaters doing playing the role of eligible and non eligible and I think many of them feel like they can't afford to turn anything down.

Thanks for the response. They may be eligible skaters, but they are professionals in every sense of the word. They are paid huge sums of money for what they do. Not like the old days. I would think they could at least show up prepared for a televised comp. LOL!

[NiceIce]

All across the USA more than 1000 skaters have worked feverishly hard to BE PREPARED for regionals.
I have never heard regionals skaters use as many excuses as these skaters did in Daytona.
Their poor skating was due to poor training.
The point is that instead of training hard many of them were out making the big bucks in the touring shows.
They should at least be honest about it.
This is the beginning of the season and skaters are expected to present good programs at this point, and that takes training and discipline.
AP, while not my favorite skater, actually looked trained...and the bigshots looked like they had other things to do.

[Emanfan]

Originally posted by NiceIce
I have never heard regionals skaters use as many excuses as these skaters did in Daytona.

Other than Sarah and Alexei, I didn't hear anyone making excuses. Did I miss something?

[Lark]

From what I heard Sarah and Alexei say, I would hardly think they were "making excuses".
They won the Olympics, for goodness sakes! Should they not be cut a little slack for enjoying the oppurtunities presented to them?!?

[Artistic Skaters]

I tend to agree with NiceIce. The skaters don't even have to make excuses for themselves. Dick & Peggy were willing to make all the excuses for them throughout the event. I don't agree things "s/he has only had this program for 2 weeks" are good excuses. They've been skating long enough to know whether or not they can present a quality program for a televised event when it was learned 2-3 weeks ago. A few can, most cannot. They should give it a little more thought especially if they are receiving hefty appearance fees for their participation.

[dbell]

Alexei does have a stress fracture.

Rack ROLFMAO! I was out pumpkin picking with my son, but knew it would be on at midnight on another channel. Actually stayed up until Midnight to set the VCR so I wouldn't mess up! So, I sort of have a life! Honest! ;)

Just jumped back in to add the following babbling:

Takeski's costume reminded me of the cartoons you see where people have toilet paper stuck to their foot.

Weiss was in shape and the best skater in the men's event. Yes, the quad was a 2 foot, but he was on his feet after it. Now considering all my slams at Mikey over the years, I'm complimenting him. Great skate and I actually FINALLY liked the program! 8O

I like Plushy's hair. Does he remind anyone else of a young John Lennon or am I just really tired? :?

Timmy, well when his jumps are off, the whole program goes to h*((, so 'nuf said there.

[danibellerika]

Tim- poor baby:( I hope his hip injury isn't all that bad.

Takeshi-I don't like his costume. That tissue paper thing he had going on just was NOT working for me.

Evgeny-He's coming off a an ankle injury so I'll cut him that slack. I still love Carmen though.

Alexie-He's getting back in the groove from HIS hip injury so I'll grant him that. MITIM is still great though.

Michael-he did pretty well for himself. If he placed first over Plush AND yags, then that would have been fair.

Overall:I think that it was practically worth flipping a coin between Plush and Yags to see who deserved to come out on top with this one(with repsect to each other). But Weiss did pretty well for himself and I think that he should have won, causing plush and yags to each drop down a spot.

[CMc]

Originally posted by rack
I really like Honda, but the toilet paper has got to go.:lol: ITA!!! I thought Sasha brought back the ribbon for her ribbon program and it got wrapped around Takeshi during the warm-up!
Either that or he had a fight in the men's room!
I have to say it looked very awkward. I know that for the most part costumes are a very artistic decision, but I haven't seen anyone defending Honda's mummy costume yet.

Thanks for the explanation about "chacking", guys. I knew it meant "not showing" but I didn't know it was a skater's name. Poor Michael Chack--He probably would have been famous if TV had given him a break.