GOE question

[Artemis]

(** warning: there are some 4CC spoilers in the following posts **)

How is it possible for a skater to receive more than -3 GOE? I thought it was a range from -3 to +3, averaged among the judges.

But I was looking at the breakdowns for 4CC, and there's something odd there. For example, Vaughn Chipeur fell on his 3A in the short, and got -3 from all the judges. But when you look at the total GOE, it's -4.20.

Jeremy Abbot, oth, fell on his 3Lz, got -3 GOEs across the board ... and total GOE of -3.00.

In the long, Nobunari Oda didn't fall on his 2nd 3A, but it was a poorly executed jump and he got -2 GOE across the board ... but total GOE = -2.80.

Huh? I thought GOE were straight points + or -, not based on the base value of the element.

[doubletoe]

No, GOE's are not straight points. If they were, it would be impossible to get -3 GOE on a double toeloop, which is worth 1.3 points.

To see the values of all jumps, spins and step/spiral sequences from base value up to +3 or -3 GOE, look at the scale of values here:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/200809-SP-SOV.pdf

[Artemis]

Thanks for that doubletoe. That definitely makes sense.

Perhaps you can answer another GOE question for me. Am I correct in assuming that a judge is to factor many different characteristics into determining the GOE, some of which may be positive and some negative? So, for example, at Canadians where Meghan & Craig did their throw 3Lutz, footwork going into it and huge distance covered (both positive GOE), but she put a hand down on the landing (negative GOE) ... that might "average" out to 0 or even +1?

And in that case, would that mean a fall on a jump could sometimes be -2 instead of -3, if there was great footwork and speed going into it and it went very high?

[Virtualsk8r]

A fall - which means that more than one body part is in contact with the ice at one time - is always an automatic -3 GOE, even if the move was fabulous. However, it is possible for judges to reward thefootwork etc, in the PCS side under choreography or skating skills etc.

A touch down with one hand is supposed to be a -2GOE, but I have seen just -1 taken off.

Going from sane to ridiculous -- while a triple lutz might be given a -3 GOE if the skater falls, a waltz jump (worth .3 under the Skate Canada CoP or IJS system) can also be given a -3GOE if the skater falls ----but the skater will never be given a 0 for any element. I think the waltz with a -3 is given a score of .1 or something - can't find my chart right now! In other words, the more points an element is worth - the larger the penalty for falling is in the GOE, which is why quads are so heavily penalized now rather than rewarded for simply attempting them, and how Patrick Chan, Jeffrey Buttle did so well without them, while Evan Lysachuk did a quad and lost the competition.

[Artemis]

In other words, the more points an element is worth - the larger the penalty for falling is in the GOE, which is why quads are so heavily penalized now rather than rewarded for simply attempting them, and how Patrick Chan did so well without them, while Evan Lysachuk did a quad and lost the competition.

Well, if you're talking about 4CC, that's not quite the whole picture. Evan was rewarded for his quad, and in fact got slightly higher Elements scores than Patrick. Patrick had much higher Components scores, and that, combined with his big lead from the short, is why he won.

I agree, though, that a lot of strategizing is required under COP.