Figure Skating's Cold War Heats Up

[Debbie S]

from USA Today:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/winter/2002-10-02-skating-coldwar_x.htm

About the ISU elections, Pfenning, Stapleford, Lindgren, lack of investigation into the Russian end of the pairs-fixing scandal, and bloc judging - a few comments on new judging system.

There's also a sidebar on the judging in the women's event in SLC and how close IS came to winning.

[peachstatesk8er]

The Cold War isn't heating up, it simply never went away. Some federations have almost always played by different rules. They have a different definition of the word fair. If they do shady stuff and don't get caught, to them it's fair. :(

They're just not used to people calling them out on their bias and back door deals. It'll all blow over, or someone will pay someone to shut up/change their story and judging will continue to be just as corrupt as it's been for decades and decades.

[AxelAnnie22]

What a mess!!:(
I don't see a lot of hope that the ISU will clean itself up. It makes me so sad to think that skaters work so hard, yet the whole thing (in some cases) is "rigged".

Perhaps each state in the old USofA, and each Province in Canada, should form its own Federation! :) That would even the playing field.

[Badams]

Originally posted by AxelAnnie22
Perhaps each state in the old USofA, and each Province in Canada, should form its own Federation! :) That would even the playing field.

OMG!! LOL! that would be awesome! :lol: :lol:

[spiralsrfun]

What a disturbing article....

The ISU is continuing to lose more and more credibility (if it even has any left). The internal power struggles and politiks going on makes me sick. I truly fear for the future of this sport.

[Ardena]

Originally posted by AxelAnnie22
What a mess!!:(
I don't see a lot of hope that the ISU will clean itself up. It makes me so sad to think that skaters work so hard, yet the whole thing (in some cases) is "rigged".

Perhaps each state in the old USofA, and each Province in Canada, should form its own Federation! :) That would even the playing field.

Well, as an admirer of a great many Russian skaters, I quite frankly, would not like to see ONLY American and Canadian skaters. And, since these skaters would not be testing their skills against, what many believe are some of the best skaters in the world, until the Olympics, I can only forsee this as a disadvantage.

[gracefulswan]

my god... to think that irina came that close to winning with her program...is shocking indeed. thank goodness it HAPPENED to go to joe on this one. sarah most definitely won the long program and we can all argue about 2nd and 3rd.8O

[AxelAnnie22]

Originally posted by Ardena
Well, as an admirer of a great many Russian skaters, I quite frankly, would not like to see ONLY American and Canadian skaters. And, since these skaters would not be testing their skills against, what many believe are some of the best skaters in the world, until the Olympics, I can only forsee this as a disadvantage. Please tell me you really KNEW I was speaking in jest!

[hydro]

a pretty frightening article, but many of the key names surrounding the controversy were conspicuously absent or not quoted. i doubt we'll ever know the full extent of corruption in the ISU and how far deep it goes.

personally, i lost all faith in judging when i heard Cinquanta was angry at the Ice Dance judging at the GPF, and called two of the judges to speak in private immediatly following the competition. :roll:

also, the ladies event in SLC was really strange in terms of the judging. those 4 first place ordinals for Irina may have affected more than just Sarah Hughes. it may have thrown off the entire podium. we'll never really know what a fair panel would have done with that competition, but suffice it to say the results are marred by those 4 first place ordinals for Irina. Sarah, no doubt, deserved her first place in the LP, and i'm glad she got it. but the podium may have looked quite different had the event been judged without the eastern/western blocs.

[duane]

those east block judges!! i wish they were as honest and objective in their judging as north american judges always are. :roll:

regarding the judging of the ladies competition...IMO, there is bias on both sides. it just happened that the SLC judging panel for the ladies competition was more favorable to the americans. personally, i see nothing sinister in irina coming that close to winning gold in SLC. sarah and irina were the only skaters to land two clean programs (in terms of no falls, two-foot landings, etc). sure, bias played a role in the judging--as it always does IMO--but perhaps those judges who placed irina 1st also believed that her overall performances (short and long programs)--coupled with a few brownie points for reputation--were more worthy of olympic gold than sarah. i dont think there would have been a huge "scandal" if irina had won gold.

[cienicsk8]

I'm one of those in the minority who believe Irina should have won the SP.
Maybe they were trying to right that wrong in the LP judging.........

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by cienicsk8

I'm one of those in the minority who believe Irina should have won the SP.
Maybe they were trying to right that wrong in the LP judging.........

Irina, Sasha, them Michelle, in that order, if someone would ask me.

[Marco]

Originally posted by ItsGr82BASk8er

To me, it started to become clear in 1994, when OB took the gold from what was clearly a more difficult NK program. And I am not just talking jumps either. These "judges" are supposed to know how difficult it is to skate a four minute program. They are supposed to appreciate how difficult it is to maintain body line and edge control with four minutes of continuous skating. And they are supposed to be watching for two footed jumps.

Certain judges completely ignored that OB basically stood around in one place for a full minute of her long program. Never mind the inferior jump count. Never mind the lack of a change foot spin. Never mind the lack of a tripl jump in combinatin (not a requirement perse, but telling of abilities).

Things went down hill from that point in dance and pairs. And the ladies this year was almost certainly tainted. IS was a hair away from winning the long and the gold in SLC, with an average skate against an incredible one from SH.



My thoughts exactly! And GPF 2002 anyone?

[Scott]

Unfortunately we will always have some form of nationalism in this sport. I really don't think that this is the biggest problem however. Before we veer away from the nationalistic judges we must clean out the crooks. These are the judges that make deals to place skaters. Keep in mind that these are not east block judges but in this case involved the french! I would also point out that it was a Russian national, not a judge, that was dirty dealing. So, lets not justfocus on the east block judges. We need to lower the tensions in the discussions and steer away making acusitory remarks. This is what turns the heat up and makes reasonable discussion even harder.

[Blue Ridge]

ahh, those 4 judges, and how shockingly close Irina came to winning it all! The discussion that just won't go away!!

[Blue Ridge]

Originally posted by ItsGr82BASk8er
<< ahh, those 4 judges, and how shockingly close Irina came to winning it all! The discussion that just won't go away!!>>

This discussion should NOT go away.

I am sure that speedy and the other corrupt judges would like it and other discussions regarding biased judging to go away too. :roll:

If you want to blinkdly accept the result of this last Olys, go for it.
Mike

Yes, indeed I will blindly accept that Sarah Hughes won the gold medal at the 2002 Olympics!! I even think she deserved it!!

[muggie]

Okay - major rant!! The cheating and favoritism has been going on for years (much longer than Oksana's win in 1994). And it will continue until the sport either fixes itself or kills itself.

This is going to sound really bad, and I don't mean it to sound that way, but its just my opinion. It has always bothered me that so many European skaters come to the US to train. They use our facilities and benefit from the general fine living standards of America. They basically live here in the US for years, and then compete at Worlds and Olympics for their home country (typically crying on the podium as their country's flag is raised during the medal ceremony - the flag of the country they haven't spent more than ten days in for the past year). After winning X number of worlds and/or the Olympics, the skaters then tour in the US (where all the $$$ is, apparently), permanently move to the US, bring their families over, have kids......blah, blah, blah. They use US resources, and then possibly have the additional advantage of bloc/cheating judges. My feeling is that olympic eligible skaters should live and train in their general region of the world. If their home country is good enough to win a medal for, then why can't the skater live and train in that country? If Europe is such a figure skating power house, why can't they support their own skaters?

Sooner or later, US skating fans are going to start putting the pieces of the puzzle together: European skaters living/training in the US, European skaters compete for their "home" country, European judges cheat/bloc vote for European skaters to win medals at competitions, European skaters tour in US skating shows making big bucks, US skating fans revolt and no longer attend skating competitions - skating tours - watch skating events on TV - because of the never ending cheating, skating goes down the drain.

I know I've over dramatized the situation. And you guys probably think I'm some kind of a close-minded goof (which is really not true). But you have to admit, there is a trend in European skaters, particularly Russian skaters, living and training in the US. In general, I find it unacceptable to give skaters from other countries all of the advantages of the US, when they quite possibly also receive all of the advantages of cheating, back room dealing judges that have no integrity.
~Mugs

[Mayra]

Originally posted by adrianchew
Irina, Sasha, them Michelle, in that order, if someone would ask me.

I would have had it...

Sasha, Irina, Michelle then Maria. Not that anyone asked me either. LOL ;)

[Blue Ridge]

Originally posted by muggie
And you guys probably think I'm some kind of a close-minded goof ~Mugs
muggie, why would you say that??

[donnamarie]

Instead of things getting better, they seem to get worse ... this is depressing.

[Ardena]

Originally posted by AxelAnnie22
Please tell me you really KNEW I was speaking in jest!

Thank God! I thought you were serious. I know that there have been posters who have put forth this idea in the past who were not kidding and I am happy that you were just kidding.

[Skatewind]

Isn't it time for someone to step in & discuss how many times B & K have been robbed by the eastern bloc judges over the years? It won't be me, but I'm so used to seeing it as a regular part of every discussion, I thought I should point out that something's missing. ;)

[Ardena]

Originally posted by Skatewind
Isn't it time for someone to step in & discuss how many times B & K have been robbed by the eastern bloc judges over the years? It won't be me, but I'm so used to seeing it as a regular part of every discussion, I thought I should point out that something's missing. ;)

Right - B&K should have beaten K&O & G&P at what point? I'm sorry, but I have watched them compete against these pairs of skaters and no one can make me believe they should have won over these two- EVER.

[loveskating]

I would have had it Irina, Sasha, then Michelle as well...based on the skating in both the SP and LP, if anyone had asked me!

IMHO, Grishuk and Platov and Krylova and Ovsiannikov were by far the best ice dancers and we have not yet seen anyone reach their technical level since. I miss them both very much. I do like B&K a lot these days though...I think they have really gotten to be great ice dancers now.

Unfortunately, the article indicates we are going to be treated to yet another year of off-the-ice dirty tricks and games and corresponding commentary by the media. Yech.

Also, the article is not specific enough; for instance, I would assume the reprimand to Pfenning was for his actions as referee in the pairs skating when he told the entire judging panel that they could only give a 5.8 to B&S in the LP, and when he noted no overtime for S&P in the SP, but rushed in to tell the judges that B&S went over by 1 second (in the latter case, I think he has the excuse that he probably thought the judges did not need any notice that S&P went over...but still, he should have noted it). As referee, he had the right to tell the panel to leave room for other skaters after S&P, but not to specifically cap the marks at 5.8.