Cohen - does she know what she's talking about?

[Schmeck]

Article link:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/03/16/sports/NA-SPT-FIG-Worlds-Youth-Movement.php

I know people get misquoted in articles all the time, but to me, it sounds like she's bashing everything she was... :roll: Of course, her quote about not being trained for jumping explains a lot! :P

[smelltheice]

I agree with the article though. It seems Sasha has grown up and reflecting on how she would have done things differently and to be honest, who hasn't done that.

There is too much emphasis on the "Wow, that was triple number 3" element of the sport as opposed to the artistic content and I truly believe that young men and women do not have the emotional maturity to deliver a highly charged and truly emotional routine, with that wow factor that leaves you breathless, at such a young and inexperienced age and level of maturity.

Perhaps an adjustment to the weighting of the scoring that might have 60% artistic and 40% technical marks should be adopted and limit the amount of triple jumps in favour of more accurate and technically superior doubles and combinations and allow only one quad jump and in the long program only, to prevent the spate of hip injuries that have ensued from chasing the bigger, better jumps. Kevin Van Der Perrin from Belgium was due to go for hip surgery after the worlds and while I am not sure if this is as a result of quad jumps, I have my suspicions....

Sometimes more isn't necessarily better, alot of the time it is just more!!

[Schmeck]

But those are all the things Cohen was as a competitor - she was a gymnast, she depended on her gumby-flexibility to do things, she was very young when she got her first US senior medal, etc. So, she regrets being one of those kids now? She talks about kids making it through injuries - and as she herself was injured and missed nationals in Boston - I'm just thinking she's spitting out sour grapes because she couldn't possibly compete with these young girls now. Last year at SOI she struggled with landing a triple in Portland, ME.

This turn-around all of a sudden because she's feeling her age - it just makes me :roll:

[smelltheice]

Although I agree with what she said and that it is a valid point in the sport today, I do think you have a point about there maybe being some sour grapes. I saw the look of distain whenever she was in the silver medal spot and not on top of the podium. I do think she is not a good loser at all and probably spat her dummy out when the cameras were gone

[Sessy]

I agree though, the whole thing with the new skaters barely being able to look over the boardings to see their coach - I'm not a fan of that, either... If you look at the old style skaters, I mean Slutskaya had a very strurdy triple lutz at one time and yet she was a mature woman by all means. It spoke through every move she made, was flowing from her fingertips so to speak. What you get now are indeed little "monkey does trick" skaters, they score well but their artisticity is entirely artificial. They got trained to do this thing or that thing with their arms at this or that point in the programme.
It's becoming more sport, less art, basically. But then again, it's probably also a change of generation. The old generation almost all left after the 2004 olympics, especially in the women's department. The girls who have come to replace them don't have the experience or the emotional maturity yet to skate like the old generation did. That takes time.

Would be interesting if Sasha came back a stronger skater than she was though. I think her major weakness was her head, not her technique, she was psyching out at competitions.

[Sessy]

Kevin Van Der Perrin from Belgium was due to go for hip surgery after the worlds and while I am not sure if this is as a result of quad jumps, I have my suspicions....

I was wondering why he wasn't doing his quads. But Kevin has actually struggled with his hip injury for years now, I remember reading he was considering quitting competition even before the last olympics because of that injury, he was very glad he didn't when he came in third at the euro's, but fact is, he's been having that problem for a looong time now.

[smelltheice]

I was wondering why he wasn't doing his quads. But Kevin has actually struggled with his hip injury for years now, I remember reading he was considering quitting competition even before the last olympics because of that injury, he was very glad he didn't when he came in third at the euro's, but fact is, he's been having that problem for a looong time now.

I wasn't sure for the reason. It was mentioned by the commentators at worlds that he would be having surgery but no reason was given. I guess the UK has a special interest in him as he is engaged to our ladies champion, Jenna McCorkill

Speaking of injuries, how are you doing now? Sessy

[onlyhappyonice]

I certainly agree that artistic content should be favoured over someone who can jump jump jump their way through a routine, From my limited experience of figure skating the skaters I see that DO manage alot of jumping have done so to the detriment of their routines asthetics.

As with all things this is not 100% but is certainly enough to make me nod my head in agreement with her interview.

[Alexa]

Sasha just annoys me sometimes. I do think it is somewhat sour grapes as well because she never achieved everything she wanted to. And now she knows that she does not have the goods to compete against the current group of skaters.

I agree, Schmeck, that she is arguing against everything that she was, and that makes no sense.

The other things I disagree with is that she acts like the sport has not always been about jumping, and she is wrong....she uses Kristi as an example, but Kristi was an excellent jumper...one of the few to do a consistent triple/triple. After Kristi left the sport, there were very few people doing that for a long while.

I also think that Sasha thinks she is very artistic, when in fact she is more a gymnast and able to pose on the ice. I never sensed her feeling the music so much as being able to pose on it in good positions. For me there is a difference.

[crayonskater]

It may not be sour grapes, but I think she's just wrong on some of the facts; Michelle Kwan was a little jumping bean when she first arrived on the scene. So was Tara Lipinski. So was Sarah Hughes. It's always been a sport liable to upset by a younger competitor with better jumps. What we're missing now is a complete package, which is what you expect when a big group retires right after an Olympics.

As to whether the artistry is all gone. I don't know; the spins are more interesting, more flexibility is required (go back and watch some of the old spiral sequences.) And again, artistry is something that generally developed during a skater's career; Kwan wasn't an artist in 1994. (And yes, she learned how, which means, unsurprisingly, her artistry was artificial, in the sense that who cares whether it's natural or learned. People don't naturally do laybacks, either.)

I think all we're seeing is that the old guard has retired or mostly retired, and there hasn't been a comparable dynasty established yet. (And the Asada-Kim rivalry, which is beginning, doesn't involve an American, which might be the hidden 'problem'.)

[smelltheice]

I'm not American and never gave a thought to the nationality of the skaters to be honest and no one said that the artistry has gone but it has take a back seat in comparison to the technical element being apparently over emphasised but I do agree that there is a power vacuum and everyone is jockeying for position to fill it but I think that the seniors should be just that, seniors or at least 16 or over to compete at senior nationals. What is the point of having a junior competition of they just go in the seniors instead or as well. Keep them as juniors to a set age as the ISU does. It makes sense.

[Schmeck]

But then they don't get that important 1-2 years of national (and some international) competition experience that comes with being a young senior. I think the 'waiting period' some of the US skaters have to go through because of the age limit is going to actully help them in the end - the pressure was off of them this year after nationals, but they have the attention (and money?) of the USFSA.

Look at Meissner - she's a mess. World Champ doesn't even make the podium at nationals. Loses a spot for the ladies at Worlds. I think she had too much too quickly last year. Good luck to her next year...

[doubletoe]

I also think that Sasha thinks she is very artistic, when in fact she is more a gymnast and able to pose on the ice. I never sensed her feeling the music so much as being able to pose on it in good positions. For me there is a difference.

I will have to disagree with that. Check out this IMPROVISED program that she skated 7 years ago (so she would have been around 16 years old).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi5tQxgWsJU

As for the article itself, I don't really agree with what Sasha is saying about it all being about jumps. Now that she's no longer a teenage girl, I think she's just forgotten that this has always been a teenage girls' sport and that it has always been about the jumps (at least since they did away with compulsory figures). In fact, I think it's now less about the jumps than it used to be under 6.0, which is why all of the girls are working harder on their spirals, footwork sequences and spins. We're seeing a number of triple-triple combinations, but still very few triple axels (and as it was already pointed out, triple-triples were already being done by skaters such as Kristi Yamaguchi, Tara Lipinski and Jenny Kirk under 6.0). Ironically, Mao Asada and YuNa Kim are best known for their edge quality and lyrical artistry than anything else, and it says a lot that Mao won Worlds without the triple axel. I also think Mirai Nagasu and Caroline Zhang have better artistry than Michelle Kwan had at their age (Michelle was a jumping bean).

But I do agree with what Sasha said about skaters needing to stick around long enough to develop a following. Michelle Kwan managed to do that, which is why she is one of the few household names among recent generations of figure skaters.

[blue111moon]

Sasha WAS all about the jumps herself when she was younger and able to do them (remember her "goal" of the quad salchow?). Then when she slacked off the training in favor of acting and everything else, she lost the jumps and now suddenly, she's all about the artistry.

The sport shouldn't change to suit the whims and needs of any one skater.

News flash for Sasha: There's always someone younger and better coming along. The sport has passed you by, honey.

[Alexa]

Sasha WAS all about the jumps herself when she was younger and able to do them (remember her "goal" of the quad salchow?). Then when she slacked off the training in favor of acting and everything else, she lost the jumps and now suddenly, she's all about the artistry.

The sport shouldn't change to suit the whims and needs of any one skater.

News flash for Sasha: There's always someone younger and better coming along. The sport has passed you by, honey.

Well said!

[Sessy]

I wasn't sure for the reason. It was mentioned by the commentators at worlds that he would be having surgery but no reason was given. I guess the UK has a special interest in him as he is engaged to our ladies champion, Jenna McCorkill

Speaking of injuries, how are you doing now? Sessy

Barely keeping up with university through the headaches and as far as any sports go, out for the rest of this season and hoping that with this season with 4 major injuries, I've had enough injuries for the rest of my skating life, LOL!
I'm gonna focus on recovery and a little stretching through the summer and hope to stay injury-free next season.
Thanks for asking! :mrgreen: