Rachael Flatt? She was once....a Pairs Skater?

[FSWer]

Say,I heard that Rachael Flat was once a Pairs Skater. Though there no mention of a former Partner. Does anyone have any kind of a link to either info. or photos of her when she was a Pairs Skater? Thanks.

[TreSk8sAZ]

Read her athlete bio here (http://www.usfigureskating.org/AthleteBio.asp?id=30119) at USFSA. It says she was with Andrew Speroff and won an Intermediate title.

[FSWer]

COOL!!!! Read it. Though it all doesn't fit my screen. Are there any pics of when they were together? BTW. how old is Rachael? She must have been a very young Pairs Skater?

[Skittl1321]

I think she is almost 16 (the bio says her birthday is in July) so she is 15 now.

She won the intermediate title is 2004- so she would have been 12 years old then. Remember that intermediate isn't one of the high levels you see on TV- but it is the highest of the "junior nationals" levels.

The elements for a well balanced program for intermediate pairs routine are:
2 lifts (from group 1 or a wasit loop lift- which is from group 2. Someone else can probably explain the groups better),
1 throw single jump,
1 pair spin,
1 side by side spin,
1 side by side jump (single or double),
1 death spin
and a step sequence

I wrote this so you have an idea of what that pairs level does. The program is 2 minutes long.

Skaters in intermediate pairs must be younger than 14. So Rachel was young- but not that young for the level.

[FSWer]

I think she is almost 16 (the bio says her birthday is in July) so she is 15 now.

She won the intermediate title is 2004- so she would have been 12 years old then. Remember that intermediate isn't one of the high levels you see on TV- but it is the highest of the "junior nationals" levels.

The elements for a well balanced program for intermediate pairs routine are:
2 lifts (from group 1 or a wasit loop lift- which is from group 2. Someone else can probably explain the groups better),
1 throw single jump,
1 pair spin,
1 side by side spin,
1 side by side jump (single or double),
1 death spin
and a step sequence

I wrote this so you have an idea of what that pairs level does. The program is 2 minutes long.

Skaters in intermediate pairs must be younger than 14. So Rachel was young- but not that young for the level.

Ok,what's a throw Single Jump? Are there any photos of Flatt/Speroff

[Skittl1321]

Ok,what's a throw Single Jump? Are there any photos of Flatt/Speroff

I have not been able to find any pictures. They skated together more than 4 years ago- there were not as many skating websites and blogs then, so pictures might be hard to find.

A throw single jump is a jump where the male skater assists the female skater in the jump entrance and throws her- and she only completes one revolution. It's a lower level throw jump. The ones we see on TV are usually throw triple jumps, and even throw quadruple jumps now.

Here is a video I found on youtube of a throw single loop- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWl9VsyLrq0 this is obviously a low level team. The intermediate team at our rink has bigger throws than this- but still the girl only rotates once in the air.

And a throw quadruple salchow: (a very high level team!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTMj_SkFw-0

[FSWer]

I have not been able to find any pictures. They skated together more than 4 years ago- there were not as many skating websites and blogs then, so pictures might be hard to find.

A throw single jump is a jump where the male skater assists the female skater in the jump entrance and throws her- and she only completes one revolution. It's a lower level throw jump. The ones we see on TV are usually throw triple jumps, and even throw quadruple jumps now.

Here is a video I found on youtube of a throw single loop- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWl9VsyLrq0 this is obviously a low level team. The intermediate team at our rink has bigger throws than this- but still the girl only rotates once in the air.

And a throw quadruple salchow: (a very high level team!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTMj_SkFw-0


Am I right to say that they usually only spin once. Because how much a 12 year old can usually handle? At what age do you usually start learning what's on TV.? btw. is it ok to ask what Team is at your Rink? Or is that personal?

[Skittl1321]

Am I right to say that they usually only spin once. Because how much a 12 year old can usually handle? At what age do you usually start learning what's on TV.? btw. is it ok to ask what Team is at your Rink? Or is that personal?

Well they spin multiple times (5 or more revolutions) but they only do one of them. I think it's more a matter of how much time is in the program to get all the elements in than what they can handle.

The pairs teams on TV are senior teams- to compete internationally they have to be 16 years old- but I think the pairs team that won nationals this year had to go to junior world's because the girl on the team was only 15. The men tend to be older than the girls- and pairs skaters in general, but not always, tend to be older than ladies single skaters.

The pairs team at my (and the other local rink, they train at both) did go to junior nationals but they are still an "unseen" team, so I wouldn't feel comfortable naming them.

[techskater]

Actually, the National Champions could neither go to JWs or Worlds. He's too old for JW and she's too young for Worlds!!

[FSWer]

Oh,I see. BTW. what was the last competition Rachael competed as a Pairs Skater,and are there any pics from that? BTW. I don't think they should really go by age when desiding who should go to Worlds. As I can igmagine how many skaters miss out. So why not change that and just go by the ability of a skater or the Team?

[jskater49]

Oh,I see. BTW. what was the last competition Rachael competed as a Pairs Skater,and are there any pics from that? BTW. I don't think they should really go by age when desiding who should go to Worlds. As I can igmagine how many skaters miss out. So why not change that and just go by the ability of a skater or the Team?

Yea, that's what a lot of people are asking. Supposedly they are "protecting" the young skaters from publicity (because you know the 3 seniors who blew the others out of the water at Junior worlds are not going to face any pressure from the press now) and protect them from injury (because since they aren't going to go to senior worlds, they won't be working on any of those jumps and moves that cause injury)

Sarcasm mode off now.:roll:

j (who thinks Alexis Gilles got royally ripped off)

[Skittl1321]

(who thinks Alexis Gilles got royally ripped off)

Whos is she? A quick google search didn't bring up anything- but just a guess would be a junior skater who didn't get to go to Junior world's because the seniors did?

I have to say- now that tech skater reminded me (I remember hearing it on the broadcast now)- the senior pairs champions got screwed- one too old for junior worlds, the other too young for senior.

[techskater]

There have been many occasions when the Junior National Champion did not go to JWs, so not really screwed

[TreSk8sAZ]

j (who thinks Alexis Gilles got royally ripped off)

It's actually Alexe Gilles, whose bio can be found here (http://www.usfigureskating.org/AthleteBio.asp?id=38574). I have to agree, she performed very well at Nationals (1st in Junior Ladies) and had a very strong international season. But, who knows what goes on in the minds of those in power

[techskater]

Getting exposure for the three up and comers who are under age for Seniors is what went through their minds. If you were going to leave one of three eventual JW medallists at home, which one would it have been? Your senior national champion who ended up 3rd at JWs (the worst international result she's had this year and her worst LP performance and the lowest finisher of the three who were selected to go to JWs)? The JW champion who was second at Nationals? The silver medallist from JWs who was 4th at the SGP final and 4th in Seniors at Nationals and defending JW Champ? Choose!

The interesting thing is Gilles was the 1st alternate for JW and is listed as an alternate for Worlds since she's age eligible.

[Sylvia]

what was the last competition Rachael competed as a Pairs Skater,and are there any pics from that?
I believe Flatt last competed pairs with Andrew Speroff in a summer club competition in July? 2004 (Novice level) before she stopped skating pairs and began focusing on her singles. There aren't any skating photos online of Flatt/Speroff that I can find. Speroff continued his pairs career after taking time off during the 2004-05 season, and he recently won the Novice Pairs silver medal with Brittany Chase at 2008 Nationals.

The interesting thing is Gilles was the 1st alternate for JW and is listed as an alternate for Worlds since she's age eligible.
Alexe Gilles was also named the first alternate for Four Continents, not Worlds. It was unfortunate that Gilles could not go to Junior Worlds this year, but hopefully she will get her chance next year (like Flatt did this year after not getting to go last year despite placing 5th in her senior debut at 2007 Nationals).

BTW, Alexe Gilles is scheduled to be a guest skater at the Skating Club of Boston's benefit show this Saturday, along with her twin sister Piper, who is an ice dancer -- see: http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=26089

[FSWer]

Yea, that's what a lot of people are asking. Supposedly they are "protecting" the young skaters from publicity (because you know the 3 seniors who blew the others out of the water at Junior worlds are not going to face any pressure from the press now) and protect them from injury (because since they aren't going to go to senior worlds, they won't be working on any of those jumps and moves that cause injury)

Sarcasm mode off now.:roll:

j (who thinks Alexis Gilles got royally ripped off)

I can understand about injury. But protect them from publicity?....Hel-lo!!!!! Don't they know the young ones are ALREADLY public eye?

[techskater]

They are working on the same elements as the Seniors, so don't really see how it protects from injury. All three JW medalists landed at least one 3/3 combo at Nationals and Worlds that was counted as clean.

[deannathegeek]

I'm not surprised rachel skated pairs-a lot of really good skaters have tried it to some degree or another, just to help them improve. For Example, Kristi Yamaguchi skated pairs for a while (with Rudy Galindo) and did really well at it before she decided singles was more her speed.

I've actually been contemplating trying pairs lately, just because there's so much more work involved that if I tried it and went back to singles, I feel I'd be a better skater for it.

[coskater64]

I don't think Alexe Gilles got ripped off at all. Rachael got totally ripped of last year, when she wasn't sent to JW last year or the year she came in 2nd in Junior ladies having been the Novice Champ the year before.

Alexe and Rachael skate at the same rink with the same coaches, I imagine Alexe will get her moment in the sun, she did well in JGP, and she will add to the arsenal of very strong skaters the US has. Another skater to watch is Marissa Secundy the Novice champ also out of the Broadmoor, she is very strong and will be a Junior next year.

We have some great skaters moving up and it looks to be a great year for the ladies and the men!!:D

[jskater49]

THe fact that Racheal was ripped off does not lesson the rip-off factor this year. The whole age limit thing is stupid stupid stupid. If it was actually protecting anyone I might look at it differently.

It's just protecting the other countries from our young skaters is what it's doing.

j

[techskater]

(some) People were glad when it precluded Mao and YuNa from the Olys, though

[jskater49]

(some) People were glad when it precluded Mao and YuNa from the Olys, though

I wasn't. I know Japan is the other country badly affected by this rule and I'm thinking Japan doesn't have a lot of clout with the ISU.

j

[FSWer]

They are working on the same elements as the Seniors, so don't really see how it protects from injury. All three JW medalists landed at least one 3/3 combo at Nationals and Worlds that was counted as clean.

How do 2 levels do the same elements?

[Sassy]

The elements for a well balanced program for intermediate pairs routine are:
2 lifts (from group 1 or a wasit loop lift- which is from group 2. Someone else can probably explain the groups better),
1 throw single jump,
1 pair spin,
1 side by side spin,
1 side by side jump (single or double),
1 death spin
and a step sequence


I had the opportunity to see Flatt/Speroff win the intermediate title at Junior Nationals. From what I recall they did two throw doubles, which I am pretty sure was standard at the Intermediate level. What really set this team apart was their jumping ability (no surprise there). They landed SBS Double lutz combos and SBS DA. I believe I heard they were also landing sbs triples the following year at Novice. Flatt's singles career really took off the following year when she stopped skating pairs. I would imagine trying to skate both disciplines would be difficult at the upper levels. Smart decision on her part, however a loss to pairs as this team had tremendous potential for such a young team. Good to see Speroff starting to experience success again in pairs, wishing both skaters the best!

[Skittl1321]

I had the opportunity to see Flatt/Speroff win the intermediate title at Junior Nationals. From what I recall they did two throw doubles, which I am pretty sure was standard at the Intermediate level. What really set this team apart was their jumping ability (no surprise there). They landed SBS Double lutz combos and SBS DA. I believe I heard they were also landing sbs triples the following year at Novice. Flatt's singles career really took off the following year when she stopped skating pairs. I would imagine trying to skate both disciplines would be difficult at the upper levels. Smart decision on her part, however a loss to pairs as this team had tremendous potential for such a young team. Good to see Speroff starting to experience success again in pairs, wishing both skaters the best!

Exciting to hear from someone who actually saw them skate- it sounds like they were really fantastic!

Is it possible program requirements have changed since then? Page 310 of the current rulbook says "maximum one throw jump, single only" for intermediate level.

[Sylvia]

I found my notes from the Liberty Summer Competition in July 2004 for the Novice Pairs free skate, won by Rachael Flatt/Andrew Speroff:
Flatt/Speroff (received 6 1st place ordinals from the judging panel) skated to a James Bond medley, and their elements were: split 2twist, throw 2Lp, sbs 2S, lasso lift with huge smile by her, sbs 2A to 2T, BI edge death spiral with a nice back arch by her, platter lift to stag/star, sbs spin camel-sit-back sit-rise holding leg, throw 2Lp with nice distance and flow, BO edge death spiral, pair spin to end.
They parted ways about one month later and Rachael went on that season the win the 2005 U.S. Novice Ladies title in Portland, OR.

[FSWer]

I found my notes from the Liberty Summer Competition in July 2004 for the Novice Pairs free skate, won by Rachael Flatt/Andrew Speroff:
Flatt/Speroff (received 6 1st place ordinals from the judging panel) skated to a James Bond medley, and their elements were: split 2twist, throw 2Lp, sbs 2S, lasso lift with huge smile by her, sbs 2A to 2T, BI edge death spiral with a nice back arch by her, platter lift to stag/star, sbs spin camel-sit-back sit-rise holding leg, throw 2Lp with nice distance and flow, BO edge death spiral, pair spin to end.
They parted ways about one month later and Rachael went on that season the win the 2005 U.S. Novice Ladies title in Portland, OR.


Do you have any photos of when they were together? BTW. does anyone know anything about why they split? Seems to me like Rachael doesn't look lik the type of skater anyone would split up from.

[Sassy]

I remember hearing that Speroff was injured and the team was forced to withdrawl from an NAC, and soon afterward Speroff made the decision to quit skating. I believe he quit for several months and returned sometime the following year. Based on his age at the time 15-16 years old, it is probably pretty typical for a skater to reevaluate their commitment to a sport which consumes your life. Who knows what kind of success the team would have had if they continued to skate together, they certainly experienced a great deal of success for being such a young team. I have to think that fate stepped in and lent a hand to Flatt, had it not she may not have gone on to win Novice Nationals etc. etc. if she had continued to divide her time between singles and pairs. As for Speroff I believe that it takes a person of strong character to walk away from something at the height of success. Kudos to both kids for what they have accomplished together in the past as well as the present and in the future.

[FSWer]

I remember hearing that Speroff was injured and the team was forced to withdrawl from an NAC, and soon afterward Speroff made the decision to quit skating. I believe he quit for several months and returned sometime the following year. Based on his age at the time 15-16 years old, it is probably pretty typical for a skater to reevaluate their commitment to a sport which consumes your life. Who knows what kind of success the team would have had if they continued to skate together, they certainly experienced a great deal of success for being such a young team. I have to think that fate stepped in and lent a hand to Flatt, had it not she may not have gone on to win Novice Nationals etc. etc. if she had continued to divide her time between singles and pairs. As for Speroff I believe that it takes a person of strong character to walk away from something at the height of success. Kudos to both kids for what they have accomplished together in the past as well as the present and in the future.


So sorry to hear that. Rachaels ann ex. Freestyle Skater. But does anyone think she might take up Pairs again on top of it in the future?

[techskater]

Not likely with the success she's having as a singles skater. It's hard to do 2 disciplines at a high level like that

[Sassy]

In either discipline at the elite level a skater is probably skating 3-4 sessions a day plus off-ice. You usually see skaters start to specialize in one discipline or another by the Novice or Junior level. I don't think that there are too many skaters who have been able to skate both pairs and singles and be highly successful at both. Kristi Yamaguchi did for a while, however there came a point in time where she had to give up pairs. In reverse, Kyoka Ina was a strong singles skater who evenutally focused her attention on pairs. More recently Jennifer Don skated both singles and pairs, but probably did not reach her full potential in either discipline in trying to compete in both.

Given Flatt's success in singles I do not foresee her returning to pairs any time soon. Pairs provided her a good basis to develop her skating skills and an opportunity to achieve success at a young age. Again her real success in singles came after she stopped skating pairs which emphasizes the fact that focusing on one discipline results in greater success than trying to split time and energy between the two.