Club Ice Times

[Isk8NYC]

In researching ice times (I have Wed nights free to skate now), I've noticed a trend that I haven't seen addressed or even recognized. People involved with newer clubs/rinks may not even realize it was once an option.

Clubs, both ISI and USFSA, used to rent blocks of ice time for their skaters. When you signed up for the Club membership, you also purchased freestyle or dance ice sessions in advance.

This is different from "guesting" at a Club; I'm referring to the skaters who are actually members of the Club.

I never liked it because, as an adult, sometimes Work would keep me from getting to every Thursday night session. I felt like I was losing money because there were no "makeups."

I've noticed that more and more Clubs that do rent ice are giving up blocks of that time because of too-few skaters. Since the Club pays the $300/hour, they can't afford to do that if no one attends or buys the ice. It's a shame, but I guess that ice time slot isn't good for most of the members, and there aren't enough guests to make it worthwhile to keep. (I've noticed that every slot is filled, almost immediately, with a hockey program.)

Many Clubs are offering "Freestyle Cards," where you buy a card of 10 sessions and use them during any of the Club's sessions. I would prefer that, but it doesn't really manage the number of skaters on the ice at any time and it doesn't predict which time slots are worthwhile since you don't know in advance if it will fit people's schedules.

A more interesting trend is that Clubs have gotten away from having the skaters SKATE TOGETHER and moved more towards social activities together. They still rent ice time for special events such as tests, comps, and shows, but Club members attend freestyles anywhere they desire. The rinks provide the freestyle sessions, collect the money, and provide the soundsystem. I'm not sure WHO sets the rules, though.

One of the major complaints about the "Club Ice" sessions was the involvement of parents. This more or less removes them from any regular interaction, other than the requisite bleacher gossip.

Not having "Club Ice" is a different atmosphere and I wonder if it's better or worse?

[Virtualsk8r]

Lack of commitment is ruining more club sessions everywhere. Our club has cancelled so much ice time over the years for the same reason. At $200 per hour the ice needs paid members to make it work -- and too few members mean cancelled ice. Once cancelled - that ice is gone forever as hockey snaps it up immediately. So when there is a growth in the number of members for that ice -- it's gone!!!

Our club sells memberships and then you have to buy icetime for the entire year, paying for each session individually. ( ie Monday at 8pm = $350 for year, Tuesday 7:00pm dance = $350 per year from Sept - April) Of course, there is a discount if you purchase more than 5 sessions per week for the year. However, no make up policy exists here as well. And for those who miss blocks of time at competitions (or at jobs) - you just have to write it off as part of the cost with skating.

Clubs are supposed to limit the number of times a skater without a membership can guest - I think it is 3x during the year. So we don't get a lot of drop-in skaters who are regulars. I have suggested punch cards so that skaters can pick up sessions in addition to their regular sessions - but all I get is 'who will be responsible for checking the cards etc'.

We have had 4 sessions reserved just for adults - cancelled over the years because adults would not commit, often until the last minute - and the club cancelled the ice because it couldn't afford it.

When ice costs are reasonable - you don't mind signing up for lots of sessions, knowing that you will miss some, because it usually ends up cheaper in the long-run. However, now that ice costs are skyrocketing - more skating clubs are going into the red just trying to survive and have cut back so much ice that their elite competitive skaters are forced to go elsewhere. That takes the backbone out of the club because once the parents of 'new' skaters see that the 'good' skaters are leaving, they will start to follow......the old 'if its good for them, then it's better for me syndrome'.

[Isk8NYC]

I've noticed that many of the younger skaters belong to a "big name" Club, such as SC of New York, but skate at rink or other clubs' freestyles. They test with their "home club" because the test fees are less expensive.

I think many adult skaters DO NOT belong to a Club. Some are, like me, individual USFSA members. Since adults are usually mobile and self-reliant, so they can get to any rink. An adults-only freestyle would appeal to them more than skating with 12-year olds.

[cathrl]

Our club only has club ice. Once a week. Freestyle sessions etc. have nothing to do with the club at all.

There are plenty of skaters at the rink who aren't members of the club. But those who are, all skate at the same time, because otherwise why bother being a member of the club at all? Most skaters do at least one additional session as well, better ones many more, but that one "club session" is when everyone who's a club member skates together.

[dbny]

What I've seen happening is the arenas themselves are offering freestyle sessions. I know of three that don't have home clubs and do this, and I think that's why, at least in one case for sure.

[jazzpants]

My home rink offers both regular FS and Club Ice. In addition to that, my home club rents from two different rinks so we have three club days.

To my knowledge, we really don't have that much of a problem filling up the Club Ice. In fact, we actually GAINED new members b/c the new rink had regular skaters there who wanted extra FS sessions, so they join our club specifically to get that extra ice time. :D

The Club Ice session at our regular rink is EARLY SATURDAY MORNING and it's usually CROWDED AS HECK!!! That's b/c our club also offers POWER CLASS before AND after the regular Club Ice session.

[Terri C]

Lack of commitment is ruining more club sessions everywhere. Our club has cancelled so much ice time over the years for the same reason. At $200 per hour the ice needs paid members to make it work -- and too few members mean cancelled ice. Once cancelled - that ice is gone forever as hockey snaps it up immediately. So when there is a growth in the number of members for that ice -- it's gone!!!

Our club sells memberships and then you have to buy icetime for the entire year, paying for each session individually. ( ie Monday at 8pm = $350 for year, Tuesday 7:00pm dance = $350 per year from Sept - April) Of course, there is a discount if you purchase more than 5 sessions per week for the year. However, no make up policy exists here as well. And for those who miss blocks of time at competitions (or at jobs) - you just have to write it off as part of the cost with skating.

Clubs are supposed to limit the number of times a skater without a membership can guest - I think it is 3x during the year. So we don't get a lot of drop-in skaters who are regulars. I have suggested punch cards so that skaters can pick up sessions in addition to their regular sessions - but all I get is 'who will be responsible for checking the cards etc'.

We have had 4 sessions reserved just for adults - cancelled over the years because adults would not commit, often until the last minute - and the club cancelled the ice because it couldn't afford it.

When ice costs are reasonable - you don't mind signing up for lots of sessions, knowing that you will miss some, because it usually ends up cheaper in the long-run. However, now that ice costs are skyrocketing - more skating clubs are going into the red just trying to survive and have cut back so much ice that their elite competitive skaters are forced to go elsewhere. That takes the backbone out of the club because once the parents of 'new' skaters see that the 'good' skaters are leaving, they will start to follow......the old 'if its good for them, then it's better for me syndrome'.

As a club officer, I can attest that our club has offered club ice in the past but kept losing so much $$$ over it, that we no longer have the funds to do so and would rather save that money for test sessions!
One parent of one of our skaters commented "That's just more money" when I told her about our Sunday club session when we did have it at the beginning of the season.

[Isk8NYC]

I've belonged to three or four clubs in the past, but never one where all the members skated the rink freestyles only. It's a very different atmosphere that I'm curious about since it's probably the future trend.

One Club I belonged to did EVERYTHING together. They did have Club ice time, but in addition, they had four social potlucks each year, bought blocks of tickets to skating shows, and rented rooms in the same hotel rooms for competitions.

Terri - without Club ice time, do you offer other (off-ice) activities to encourage comraderie and friendship among the members?

[Terri C]

Terri - without Club ice time, do you offer other (off-ice) activities to encourage comraderie and friendship among the members?

We're a small club, so it's easier. To wit, one of our skaters had her Bat Mitzvah a few weeks ago and a good number of the active skaters, parents and coaches in our club were there!!

[jp1andOnly]

One of the problems is that you all are allowed to go to public ice and do freeskate, have lessons, etc. No wonder clubs are going under.

In Canada, you can't be an individual member. You actually have to belong to a club. Now, you don't have to skate for that club (for example, I skate at 3 different clubs) but you need a home club. You also can't have lessons on public ice nor can you do freeskate, dance ,etc. Perhaps ice is cheaper up here as well. And we offer sessions for low level skaters (those who just finished learn to skate) to high level.

We have found overthe years, many small clubs go under because as skaters get older and quit, there just isn't enough people to purchase the ice. A lot of clubs also make sure that when you purchase a block of ice (Sept-March) it works out CHEAPER per session then if you just "buy on" or "guest skate" here or there. So if you know you will miss 3-4 sessions out of the sept-march times it would still be cheaper to purchase the block than pay per session. other clubs also limit the amount of buy ons you can do. Another thing clubs do is offer a 10% early bird sign up. this has helped our club who were notorious for waiting for the first day and then everyone would sign up. It guarantees numbers and at least makes sure the club is covering some costs

[Virtualsk8r]

Our test sessions don't cost the members anything extra for ice or hospitality. The only cost involved is the test fee - usually $10 or $20 if a competitive test - that the skating association charges. The club sessions are compressed or cancelled on test days. The logic there is that everyone tests at some time or another in their career.

Since skaters must declare a homeclub each year, they are only eligible to test at that club's test days ( usually 3 or 4 per year) unless it is a competitive test which can be tried at a centralized sectional test day (about 3-4 times a year). Sometimes approval is given for an 'out of club' test.

Another thing - while most clubs will allow a guest coach to teach their own skaters occasionally on club ice, outside coaches are not permitted to regularly bring in their skaters unless a) the skaters join the club and pay club ice fees and b) the board gives approval for that coach to teach there. So club jumping for ice is not really an option if you want your coach to follow you.

However, there are some training centres in major centres, where coaches can take their skaters for a walk-on fee. Ice is generally available during the day only, with noon and early morning sessions tending to be more dense.

I envy your ability to pick and choose where you would like to skate!

[Virtualsk8r]

I guess we were replying at the same time with similar thoughts!

[blue111moon]

My club offers seven hours of club ice a week. Outside of the rink-run public sessions, it is the only figure skating ice available at the rink. Everything else is hockey.

You must be a USFS member to skate on club ice. Club members may contract ice for the season (Sept. through April) either by the hour - same hour every week with a limited number of switch tickets - or for a flat fee the All Session contract, which allows you to skate on any or all seven sessions for less than the per-hour rate of four. There is a maximum of 22 skaters allowed on each session.

Individual walk-ons are allowed but not encouraged, simply because the club cannot plan on walk-ons to pay for the ice.

Every year we fight the hockey leagues to hang onto our ice.

[jp1andOnly]

Just to add to my original thought....

Though I skate at a couple clubs, these are clubs my coach CAN coach on. she is either a guest coach that has been approved by the board at that club, or she is on staff there. so basically, if i wanted ice at say club X and she wasn't a guest coach or on their coaches lists, she couldn't coach there. All it really takes is a phone call and permission is usually granted to guest coach for the off season if the coach has their accreditation from skate canada.

Our test sessions don't cost the members anything extra for ice or hospitality. The only cost involved is the test fee - usually $10 or $20 if a competitive test - that the skating association charges. The club sessions are compressed or cancelled on test days. The logic there is that everyone tests at some time or another in their career.

Since skaters must declare a homeclub each year, they are only eligible to test at that club's test days ( usually 3 or 4 per year) unless it is a competitive test which can be tried at a centralized sectional test day (about 3-4 times a year). Sometimes approval is given for an 'out of club' test.

Another thing - while most clubs will allow a guest coach to teach their own skaters occasionally on club ice, outside coaches are not permitted to regularly bring in their skaters unless a) the skaters join the club and pay club ice fees and b) the board gives approval for that coach to teach there. So club jumping for ice is not really an option if you want your coach to follow you.

However, there are some training centres in major centres, where coaches can take their skaters for a walk-on fee. Ice is generally available during the day only, with noon and early morning sessions tending to be more dense.

I envy your ability to pick and choose where you would like to skate!

[Isk8NYC]

All it really takes is a phone call and permission is usually granted to guest coach for the off season if the coach has their accreditation from skate canada.That's not as true here, because Clubs and Rinks are rather territorial about their skaters. They usually allow a coach to begin teaching (with proper insurance and credentials) IF they're bringing new skaters. Most have rules that anyone already skating at that Club/Rink have to take from coaches who are ALREADY on staff.

We had a discussion about this at our Staff Meeting and a rather lengthy chat again last week. (I was just a fly on the wall.)

[Virtualsk8r]

Coaches everywhere are rather protective of their territory and their source of potential students!

[UDsk8coach]

First - Club Ice: Growing up in Baltimore, I belonged to the most popular club in the area, and we had our own ice time, pretty much every day of the week. Any skating time was through the club, pay-as-you-go freestyle sessions weren't around. You either belonged to the club and skated on the ice time offered, or you didnt and skated on public sessions. Yes, you could pay the "guest fee", but that was only allowed twice, at which point you were "forced" into a membership, ranging in price of course. I know my parents spent a couple grand on just ice time from September to May. After that there was summer school, which was a RINK program, not affiliated w the club, and you signed up for blocks of time. You miss a session, too bad, youre out the money.

Fast forward to 2000 - a new rink opens up 20min north of my current club. They offer freestyle sessions, pay as you go, the ultimate flexibility! Since it was a new rink, there was no FSC yet... well, eventually a few parents got together and came up w/ a FSC. Now, since there are f/s sessions already in place, they see no need for "club time." Good and bad. Good bc the parents dont have to shell out hundreds of dollars in advance for ice, bad bc none of the members know who else is a member. Yeah, they tried to do some "events" which brought everyone together, but that group mentality wasn't there.

I like the idea of club ice. I think it brings the skaters together better than just walk-on f/s sessions. I PREFER club ice.

Next: coaches and clubs and rinks - All I have to say about this is, the skater will go where the coach they want to take from is teaching. I left one rink for another, and guess what, my students & parents followed me. If a club/rink denies a coach admittance to teach, then they are going to lose business, bc those additional skaters won't be coming there to have their lesson. I ALWAYS went where the coaches were, no matter how far the drive and the cost. Parents today are no different - if they want the *best* they will go to the rink that the *best* is coaching at.

Whew, that was a long one!:D

[liz_on_ice]

I'm an adult, I skate at 4 different rinks, depending on season. I'd love to pick one and skate the club ice and know everyone there, but with a family including two small children, and a career, I squeeze in ice time wherever I can get it - mostly in the o'dark-thirty timeframe.

I did join SC of NY. I confess, I love the jacket <blush>. At least this way I'm on the mailing list and might be able to do an occastional club activity. There was a bus chartered to go to Skate America in Hartford which I just couldn't make, but hopefully next time.

-Liz

[Skate@Delaware]

Our rink had club ice (where you purchase levels of ice time for the 3 sessions per week), public sessions (6 per week), and ONE freestyle session during the week (let's not talk about the 15-20 hockey sessions).

The club recently announced that it purchased for next year the freestyle session. It's a good news/bad news announcement. Means that session will be crowded with the little kids, the few adults that attended (not club members) will no longer show up and be bumped to public (if at all).

The club also announced that whatever level of ice time you purchase...you are going to be stuck with for the year. We had people dropping down 1/2 way through the year and because of the lack of $$$ our club had a hard time paying the ice bill-it depended on those contracts being met.

All-in-all though, club ice is cheaper than skating on public ice...I did the math and it saves about 25%.

[Morgail]

This is really interesting. It's definitely not a trend here, as there are no such things as rink-run freestyle sessions. Of course, we have only two rinks.

Rink #1 is seasonal & is home to 2 USFSA clubs (I think) and an ISI program, none of which offer club sessions. Everyone skates on public sessions there, which are offered for several hours every weekday.

Rink #2 is home to one very active club, which offers club sessions. You contract for & pay up front for as many sessions as you want for each "season" (ie. spring, summer, etc.). Club members can walk-on at any session they aren't already signed up for, as long as the session isn't full. The only other option at that rink is public sessions. I think the club offers something like 15-20 sessions a week.

The whole concept of non-club freestyle sessions simply doesn't exist here. I wonder if it is because both of our rinks are privately owned, rather than owned by the city or county? Or maybe it is because we just don't have a huge figure skating community?

[blue111moon]

My NE rink is state-owned but privately-managed so it's an odd mix of state mandated public sessions and whatever brings in the most money for the management company. Hockey is generally king. The USFSA club-owned sessions are the only absolute freestyle sessions; the public sessions weekday mornings tend to be mostly adult figure skaters but there's nothing to stop speedskaters and hockey players (supposed to be without sticks or pucks but they'll bring them on if the manager's not around) from showing up.

The rink used to run public freestyle sessions several times a week in addition to the open public sessions but they cut that out except for a few weeks before the full hockey season begins in the fall. And then they cancel them at the drop of a puck if they can get somebody to pay the full price for the time.