Odd spinning!

[aussieskater]

In previous posts I've complained about not being able to spin (I've being trying to learn a basic forward 2-foot spin - or any forward spin! :lol: - with a singular lack of success). On Friday, DH showed me a backspin, and I laughingly commented that it looked easier than the other way. Blow me down if I didn't manage to eke out a one-foot 2-rev backspin on my first try. Pretty ugly and the foot wasn't crossed but it's a whole lot better than any attempt I've ever made forward. (Come to think of it, I shouldn't have been so surprised since I'm finding learning BI twizzles much easier than FI ones.)

Question is: has this happened to you; and how do I take this and apply it to forward spins (or my lack of them)?

[techskater]

Yes, I have a better back scratch than forward and back camel than forward (at least, more consistent) but not sit or layback (the forward ones are better).
What I've done with it, is try and analyze what I do on the back version of the spin that makes it good and that is different than the forward spin and apply it. For example, on the back scratch, I generate the speed from the hip snap and keeping up over the spinning side. I've applied that to my forward scratch and, while, still not as centered as the back scratch, it has gotten better.
With the back camel, I pull with the free side arm (for me, the right as I spin CW), and the pull is consistent and a straight sweep (as opposed to dipping down or dropping). I've applied that arm motion to the forward camel and, I'll be darned if it's not better.

[miraclegro]

Years later....my backspin is still from h**. It is an illusion. My camel and upright are gorgeous. The problem is for me, getting up on the toe more. Also my back sit spin is just as bad. My coach had me doing shoot the ducks this past lesson to get me to feel about getting down low, and i felt so ridiculous. These are my current tasks at hand!

[Sessy]

Question is: has this happened to you; and how do I take this and apply it to forward spins (or my lack of them)?

This has happened to me but this was because of a problem with my blades.

[Mel On Ice]

interestingly enough, I find it easier to hold by free leg behind my spinning leg in a corkscrew position when I am doing a backspin. It's not a better spin yet, as I only just started working on it, but I feel like it has more potential.

[WannabeS8r]

Your situation is slightly similar to mine - I love the back scratch; it's really fast and centered. The forward is ok, but not great. :frus:

[Morgail]

interestingly enough, I find it easier to hold by free leg behind my spinning leg in a corkscrew position when I am doing a backspin. It's not a better spin yet, as I only just started working on it, but I feel like it has more potential.

I actually found that to be easier also. I'm not sure why, but it took me longer to be able to hold the backspin in a crossed leg position than in a corkscrew (or even an upright) position. The corkscrew position came more naturally, I suppose.

[Imo]

The backspin was the first spin I was able to do and it was fast and centred long before I was able to centre a forward spin of any kind. It's still one of my most consistently good spins, although forward sit is probably my best spin now.

[Snowbird]

I prefer forward spins in general, but I tend to find my back corkscrew more comfortable than my forward. My forward is probably better, but I tend to go very fast and travel. I guess the corkscrew position is more natural in a back spin (in my opinion).

[jazzpants]

I have the typical scenario with the backspin. Forward spins I learn quickly. Backspins are (one of the) spins from Hades, I think. (The other spin from Hades is the camel spin!) For some it's the opposite. YMMV, I guess.

Took me forward just to spin enough to pass the Bronze FS test. Am practicing now to get it to stay on the correct edge! (Yup! Back at the wall again! :roll: )

[NoVa Sk8r]

I think that the backspin is bugger to learn.
While I learned a camel spin in 2 weeks or so, it took me *5 years* to get a semi-decent back scratch spin! (And it's progressed nicely since then ...)

[herniated]

I am also having a difficult time with the back spin. It's much better that it was a year ago. (Yes, a year) but it's far from perfect. The only reason I do it is to get a better axel. The back sit spin is easier for me than the back scratch.:frus: :frus:

[doubletoe]

I was also one of those people who took forever to get a backspin. I have good turnout in my feet and have always felt comfortable on an outside entrance edge but uncomfortable on the RFI entry to a backspin. If there were some sort of connection, then I suppose pigeon-toed people would be more comfortable with a forward inside spin entry (backspin). So does anyone know?

[Award]

I've never found out why a spin where your skate starts going around in a circle in a forward skating direction is called a back spin. While if the skate starts going around in a circle in a reverse skating direction is called a forward spin hehe

[Sessy]

I haven't done one in ages since I've really been training for my next test and competition lately but I've gotta say, the only time I can do a backspin is from a completely centered scratch. Dunno why.

[tidesong]

That's an interesting question doubletoe, I'm not pigeoned toe but I can't open my hips to 180 deg I can manage maybe 160? but of course greatly prefer 100.

I do center the back upright spin alot more easily than the forward one although both are decent. I find that my back camel isn't as good as my forward, and my forward and back sits are usually comparable depending on the day lol. So its hard to say, for the latter two, I find it easier to generate speed into my forward spins but easier to center my back spins.

[gt20001]

In previous posts I've complained about not being able to spin (I've being trying to learn a basic forward 2-foot spin - or any forward spin! :lol: - with a singular lack of success). On Friday, DH showed me a backspin, and I laughingly commented that it looked easier than the other way. Blow me down if I didn't manage to eke out a one-foot 2-rev backspin on my first try. Pretty ugly and the foot wasn't crossed but it's a whole lot better than any attempt I've ever made forward. (Come to think of it, I shouldn't have been so surprised since I'm finding learning BI twizzles much easier than FI ones.)

Question is: has this happened to you; and how do I take this and apply it to forward spins (or my lack of them)?

I have the same exact problem but i cant give any advice i still cant seem to get a consistent non traveling forward spin. My back spin and back sit were much better than my forward one i almost never travel on the backspin and travel half way across the ice on most forward spins. My coach always picks on me about this.

[Sessy]

I've never found out why a spin where your skate starts going around in a circle in a forward skating direction is called a back spin. While if the skate starts going around in a circle in a reverse skating direction is called a forward spin hehe

I think they named it after the first edge of the 3-turn you're doing to get into it. A back outside edge for a backspin and a forward outside edge for a normal spin.

[Skittl1321]

When we first started learning one foot spins in basic skills I mistakenly practiced backspins. I could get around a revolution or two, sort of. The instructor came over told me I was doing it wrong, and then I started working on the forward spin. Couldn't do it. With practice I'm up to a pretty good 5-7 revolutions. But, since I was told it was "wrong" I didn't continue to practice the backspin. I wish she had told me to keep working on both. My backspin is miserable now! I still have only those piddly 2 revolutions, and only from a 2 footed spin. I working on getting into it from a pivot now.

[Isk8NYC]

I've never found out why a spin where your skate starts going around in a circle in a forward skating direction is called a back spin. While if the skate starts going around in a circle in a reverse skating direction is called a forward spin hehe
I'm not sure if this is correct because I haven't been able to verify it yet:
So what makes a forward spin "forward" and what makes a backwards spin "backwards"? Most people don't know that a forward spin is called forward due to the free hip travelling forward and the backspin is called backward because the free hip is travelling in a backward motion.I think this is as valid an explanation as any, but I've never seen it in writing other than in DressageChica's post.

[kateskate]

I do center the back upright spin alot more easily than the forward one although both are decent. I find that my back camel isn't as good as my forward, and my forward and back sits are usually comparable depending on the day lol. So its hard to say, for the latter two, I find it easier to generate speed into my forward spins but easier to center my back spins.

I agree - forward spins I can get to spin faster but back spins are easier to centre!

[Team Arthritis]

. The problem is for me, getting up on the toe more. !

interestingly enough, I find it easier to hold by free leg behind my spinning leg in a corkscrew position when I am doing a backspin. It's not a better spin yet, as I only just started working on it, but I feel like it has more potential.

The back sit spin is easier for me than the back scratch.:frus: :frus:

OK I've just yesterday had a major breakthrough on my backspin - my complaints were just like those quoted above -> mainly I always felt that my weight was too far back and "behind" my sweetspot, leaving the free hip open or the free leg behind allowed me to arch my back some to get the weight over the balll of the foot again but every spin ended with me on my heel.

What helped: start each session practiceing FI-3 crossing the free foot front at the ankles - even if it bounces out a second later getting atleast one rotation. Now do your regular backspin entrance and DON'T let the free leg get outside of the tracing concentrating on not bending forewards at the waist and keeping the arms level and shoulder high. Now on the free turn MAKE your free leg go up as straight as possible in front (well really 11:00 o'clock, keeping just a little bend in the skating knee. Now as you pull the free leg in its momentum will give you something to pull against to pull yourself forewards as you really really straighten the skating knee -> trying to get way up over the ball of the foot onto the bottom pick (also think hands down on table and stand tall).
Lyle

[♥Feel the Rain♥]

I have a problem with forward spinning as well: :(

I can do a quite consistent back scratch spin, really really well. My coach mentioned that it is fast and centered at the same time. I can feel it myself, and I feel wonderful when I am doing such a back spin; I can just tell that I am perfectly centered on my sweet spot. However, I have trouble with my normal scratch spin - I can't seem to be able to cross my foot and stay off the toe pick! It feels way different from the back spin... How is that possible?? I can do a good back spin yet my forward scratch spin stinks... I just can't spin fast in it without getting on my toe pick and keeping my free foot beside my spinning leg, not crossed. Bleh.

Any advice on spins and such situations would be hugely appreciated!
BTW, I spin clockwise.

[renatele]

I've never found out why a spin where your skate starts going around in a circle in a forward skating direction is called a back spin. While if the skate starts going around in a circle in a reverse skating direction is called a forward spin hehe

I think they named it after the first edge of the 3-turn you're doing to get into it. A back outside edge for a backspin and a forward outside edge for a normal spin.

That would be a reasonable explanation, except ... both spins use forward edges before the 3-turn, and both spins travel on back edges - the forward spin on BI, backspin on BO.

[dbny]

That would be a reasonable explanation, except ... both spins use forward edges before the 3-turn, and both spins travel on back edges - the forward spin on BI, backspin on BO.

You beat me to it. Does anyone know for sure that what we are calling a "forward" spin is officially called that? Even Dick Button seems uncomfortable talking about a "forward" spin. My guess is that the first one foot spin is what we call a "forward" spin and was not perceived to be on a BI edge, as it's on that tiny little spin spot at the front of the blade. If you mess up a "forward" spin, you fall onto the BI edge, not the FO edge. In the process of developing the backspin, it's likely that it was first done on a FI edge, since that's the common mistake, so when it was perfected, it became a backspin by contrast. No one ever does a FO spin by accident, it's the hardest spin there is.

[cecealias]

Before I met my current coach I was severely forward spin impaired. I attribute that however, to the poor coaching technique i was getting.

The backspin was much easier for me to center than the forward, but I attribute this to several factors: ( I spin CCW)

1. My posture on the right side of the body is better.
2. My abs strength on the right side is stronger.
3. I broke my left ankle, but my right ankle is ok
4. It is more difficult for my right foot to learn skills. Therefore, I have to be more precise in practice, and can't just "wing it"
5. In dance, all the pas de bourees i learned were rotated on the right foot, so I have already learned how to rotate on that axis better.

IMHO, the most important items in spinning are your 1) posture, 2) abs strength 3) arm position 4) knee bend 5) timing.

here's how i fixed my forward spins -

Practice them sloooowly from a standstill on a line.
Resist the effort to fling yourself into it.
Focus on the technique but don't overdo it too many times when you practice.
practice consistently 4-5 x week for short amounts of time 10-20 min max.
don't get too frustrated and or demand that you nail it every time when you skate.
give yourself a break if its not working.
stay positive and don't let people give you a hard time if you're not getting it.

[Award]

Resist the effort to fling yourself into it.

This is a good thing to remember. Trying to force it with flinging action can create a fair bit of problems for a lot of people. The forward spin was the first spin I ever did, and I used the sideboards at first to hold onto when I was new to spinning. I just started slowly with half turns near the sideboards, or whatever I could. Then graduated to doing a full turn. Then after some time, more and more turns, until things became easy. At first, sometimes my skate would hit the wall, which wasn't too good. But once I got the hang of things, I could spin close to the wall without drifting. And only after that I got into spin entries away from the sideboards. If you just take your time to learn and just enjoy the moment of learning to spin, it's fun. If trying to rush it, it's not that fun.