Interview With Irina [Archive]

manleywoman

09-16-2002, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by Lark
and am shocked that she feels that the SLC Olympic Gold was taken from her unfairly. I will say nothing else. I am just amazed.

I'm not. I think she should have won Gold. Not because Sarah Hughes didn't skate the best Long Program, because she did, but because Sarah never should have been as high as fourth in the Short Program, IMO. Then Irina would have won Gold.

Irina should have been first in the Short over Michelle too, though since she beat her in the Long, her standings int eh Short didn't matter ultimately.

AxelAnnie22

09-16-2002, 11:31 PM

What a wonderful article. Lark - I am mot sure what you were reading, but I didn't see what you saw. I really like her.....as a person, not just a skater.

shine

09-17-2002, 12:15 AM

and your opinion just sucks. And this is just my opinion.

adrianchew

09-17-2002, 12:19 AM

Originally posted by shine
and your opinion just sucks. And this is just my opinion.

Attacking another poster is uncalled for. We can agree to disagree, but this will not be tolerated. Please don't do this in the future.

Lark

09-17-2002, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by AxelAnnie22
What a wonderful article. Lark - I am mot sure what you were reading, but I didn't see what you saw. I really like her.....as a person, not just a skater.

Q: What did you feel when you saw your second set of marks in SLC?

Irina: I realized that all my work went down the drain...But this is like a brick wall. I am not accepted. You see, how it is: as far as techniques, where everything is obvious, I'm first. As for the artistry... "She just doesn't have it!" Whatever I do - nothing can prove it wrong!

Q: Perhaps, there is still a chance?

Irina: I don't know, I am telling you - it's a wall! At Worlds, it's the same story. They let me win the Europeans but I kept loosing at Worlds on presentation.

To me the previous sentences are what I was refering to. Irina feels that she is losing Worlds on Presentation, but she is "allowed" to win Europeans. Irina did not skate cleanly at those Worlds, she did not land any 3/3's, if I recall correctly, and she had, in my estimation, poor Presentation.
And what absolutely kills me is that Irina keeps thinking that she was first in Technique in SLC. From all the commentary I have heard, except for Russia, the correct person won the LP (notice I did not say "GOLD", but I will not get into SP standings since I did not see anyone other than the Top 4).
As far as losing on Presentation, join the crowd. Tim and Surya will buy you a hot cup of coffee.
My main gripe is that Irina thinks she is the Yagudin of the Ladies field. While I do appreciate what she brings to the sport, I have never, in my remembering, seen a competition where I thought that Irina was held down. And if anyone can notice, I did not, intentionally, compare Irina to any of her competitors, since I do not want this to turn into an Irina vs. so-and-so thread.

loveskating

09-17-2002, 08:25 AM

I too feel that at SLC, Irina won the SP hands down, and also that Sarah should never have been in 4th after the SPs...and that therefore, Irina should have won. MK very badly underrotated her flip, her SP performance was not remotely "magical" and Irina was just flawless, and her SP program was considerably more difficult than MK's or anyone elses and except for the required spiral sequences, Irina Slutskaya is the quality skater in the field, IMHO (edges, spins, jumps).

I do think, however, that MK beat Irina fairly in 2001 at Worlds...MK was as "on" as I've ever seen her, and with the very solid 3/3 she landed, her presentation was overall superior enough to win. IMHO, that was probably MK's best ever.

Debbie S

09-17-2002, 08:46 AM

OK, I have a few comments on this.

First of all, did Irina actually watch a tape of her Oly performance w/ someone who actually understands presentation? Personally, I hadn't seen her skate so devoid of a pulse in a long time. The irony is that if she had skated even as she skated at 2001 Worlds (or the GWG), she would have won. As for her pre marks, I felt they were enormously inflated, to say nothing of those 5.8s and 5.9s she got for tech. Even at my most generous, I would have given her a 5.7 for tech and a 5.7 for pre.

If you consider how close she was marked to Sarah, and when you consider the judges that put Irina first, I say there was no way certain judges hadn't, in their minds, predetermined the winner to be Irina. I would have had Irina third in the LP (behind Sarah and MK), as did some judges, and I think Irina ought to be happy she got what she did. She has no one but herself to blame for her marks. What happened to a 3/3? What happened to her energy? I never thought that Irina's self-proclaimed cheery-ness (in an interview at '01 Worlds) should make up for MK's actual skating, but I do think the majority of the judges on that panel would have gladly placed her above Sarah if she looked like she was alive while she skated.

As far as Worlds go, what about Irina's 6.0s in the short (completely over-inflated, but I won't get into that)? And the judges giving her, as the first skater of the contenders in the LP, marks so high for a performance many felt was somewhat lacking (I'm going on Paul M's commentary and other comments I've read, plus what I saw on TV, but I know that can be deceiving) that there was almost no way MK or others could have beaten her overall?

What bothers me the most is Irina's blasting the judges for predetermining the results of the Olys, but then says the same int'l judges "let" her win Europeans, but not Worlds. Uh, Irina, if you're so opposed to any predetermined results, I would think you'd rather earn your titles, rather than asking judges to "let" you win something. It reminds me a little of B/K's complaining about lack of movement in ice dance standings, and then complaining when the Italians started getting marked ahead of them. (BTW, I am a big fan of B/K, and I do think they've been judged unfairly over the years, but I felt their complaints about being passed sounded a wee bit hypocritical.)

AxelAnnie22

09-17-2002, 08:51 AM

Hi Lark

Thanks for your reply. I see what you mean, but I just didn't interpret the remark as "sour grapes" as I thought you did. I just thought she was frustrated. She is correct. She DOES/DID take a hit presentation wise. And it must be really frustrating for her. Her technique, and quality of her skting is arguably the best in the Ladies field. You might not think she is a "pretty" skater, but her speed, jumps, spins, spiral (again, not pretty but very difficult) footwork, edges (did I miss any part of skating?) are all at the top of the field.

And, she should have had that gold medal in her hand in SLC. (I didn't say she should have won the LP).

I am sure it IS like a brick wall for her. Just as Russian Nationals must feel like a brick wall for Yags.

Blue Ridge

09-17-2002, 10:24 AM

ahh, the never ending discussion again!

JDC1

09-17-2002, 11:34 AM

Whatever. It would behoove her to let go and move on. I totally disagree with her on Worlds 00 and 01, haven't rewatched Olys yet so I really have no opinion on the LP. It's my understanding she got dinged in the SP for not actually having footwork into her 3 flip, for virtually gliding into and that was the difference between her and Michelle, who knows. It amazes me that someone who comes across as so bubbly and happy go lucky can give interviews like this, it seems the opposite of how she presents herself in the United States. She's certainly entitled to her opinion but I don't see how sour grapes is going to get her anywhere.

Emanfan

09-17-2002, 11:49 AM

Well I, for one, think she's awesome. Those who are critical of her skating skills probably have very good techincal arguments. I don't have the knowledge to debate those issues.

All I know is that when she skates, she lifts my spirits and that's good enough for me. I'm very glad she is back this season, regardless of her placement at the end of the day.

LilRedRidingHood

09-17-2002, 11:55 AM

I don't like to assume that if Irina, or anyone else for that matter, had won the short, that Irina would have won the gold.

Who knows what the final results would have been? The pressures associated with a standing in the short have different impacts based on different skaters. Some do better being the hunted, some do better doing the hunting. Some skaters change their strategies and some even their elements based on their standing in the short. Some let go, others skate more reserved, depending on their position in the short.

For that reason, I don't think it's a valid statement to say that Irina would have won the gold had she been placed first in the long. No one knows that. Way too many variables to assume such.

And, that's just my opinion!

AxelAnnie22

09-17-2002, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by LilRedRidingHood
I

Who knows what the final results would have been? The pressures associated with a standing in the short have different impacts based on different skaters.

WOW! What a wonderful insight. I never thought of it that way before. Adds a whole new dimension to my thinking. THANKS:D

Lark

09-17-2002, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by LilRedRidingHood
...I don't think it's a valid statement to say that Irina would have won the gold had she been placed first in the long. No one knows that. Way too many variables to assume such.

LilRed, I have thought that way before.
I honestly believe that if Michelle had been 2nd in the SP, she would have had more fire, more "AARRGGHHHH" and would have come out fighting.
Does anyone remember Michelles face when she won the SP? It was like "OH MY GOD!!!" She was totally shocked, and I think that was the start of her downfall. Her nerves flared up with her picturing that Gold right there on her neck. If Michelle had placed 2nd in the SP, I fully expected the end results to be Michelle, Irina, Sarah and Sasha.
I fully expect Irinas nerves to come into play regardless of her SP placement. I see Irinas Worlds win, while 10000% deserved, along the same line as Marias 1999 win. Kind of like "Okay, I cannot lose if I just suck it in, pay attention, and just do it". Irina was not free at Worlds in the way that she was at say the 2000 GPF, but that slow-and-steady is what she needed that night.

loveskating

09-17-2002, 04:02 PM

I thought Irina's presentation was lovely in the LP...I loved that program, and especially live, I find Irina very exciting.

I don't agree that it was a slam dunk for Sarah...she underrotated her flip, for instance, and flutzed big time...and the quality of her jumps right down the line is not up to that of Irina (takeoffs, landings and proper backspin position in the air, as well as height, in particular).

Sarah's presentation was about her, it was about her winning, skating clean, not about anythign else, and I personally find that very hard to relate to. The only thing that saves such a performance for me by ANYONE is the fact she landed two 3/3s; somethng like that always gives some dignity to such a performance because at least the person did something to write home about.

I can see it would have been close and I would have been pleased if Irina had won...I don't think the judges who marked Irina first in the LP were wrong or corrupt. I'd have marked her first myself. I don't mind that Sarah won...I just think it was not the slam dunk people claim and also that IRina had a right to be mad...and IMHO she certainly should have been first in the SP, whatever might have happened if she had been.

Badams

09-17-2002, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by Blue Ridge
ahh, the never ending discussion again!

EXACTLY!!!! when will it end??? :roll:

duane

09-17-2002, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Debbie S
What bothers me the most is Irina's blasting the judges for predetermining the results of the Olys.

where in the interview does irina claim that the olympic results are predetermined?

regarding the interview, i've said it before and i'll say it again: whether one agrees or disagrees with what many russian skaters have said in interviews over the years, i admire them for speaking their minds! we can hardly ever disagree with american skaters' comments because the only thing they usually say in their interviews is the typical "sweet", "fluff" replies.

nits

09-17-2002, 04:56 PM

Irina needs a coach that will be honest with her and her PR dept. needs to sit down with her and have a long talk. Irina isn't doing herself any favors by claiming she was robbed of this and that.
I disagree that she was robbed of anything, however feel that she has been handed huge gifts more than once. When she hints of pre-determined results I wonder why she doesn't mention GPF 02 and Worlds '02?
Seems Irina shows a different side of herself to the American press. Maybe she will become an actress someday and win an oscar?

adrianchew

09-17-2002, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by duane

regarding the interview, i've said it before and i'll say it again: whether one agrees or disagrees with what many russian skaters have said in interviews over the years, i admire them for speaking their minds! we can hardly ever disagree with american skaters' comments because the only thing they usually say in their interviews is the typical "sweet", "fluff" replies.

Totally have to agree here - a little more frankness might be in order. Though I'd have to actually understand Russian myself and read the articles, to form any such opinions of Irina as some are suggesting... perhaps in jest, perhaps a true believe.

I can't say I've been an outright fan of Irina's skating, but she's grown on me quite a bit. I see a lot of good qualities in her skating, and the more I've come to understand the elements, the more easily I can understand a different point of view - she has lots of technical strengths.

Part of the problem is there is skating - the sport, and skating, the US armchair fan perspective - which are two different things. Judges often times are looking for different things than some fans of certain skaters, may not look for, or appreciate the difficulty of.

Ellyn

09-17-2002, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by nits
Irina needs a coach that will be honest with her and her PR dept. needs to sit down with her and have a long talk.

So, if you're Irina's PR expert, how would you advise her to answer Russian reporters who encourage her to say she deserved better than she got against American skaters. Should she say what the Russian readers want to hear? what potential American readers of translations of the interviews want to hear? nothing but bland platitudes that no one wants to hear?

proam

09-18-2002, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by Ellyn
So, if you're Irina's PR expert, how would you advise her to answer Russian reporters who encourage her to say she deserved better than she got against American skaters. Should she say what the Russian readers want to hear? what potential American readers of translations of the interviews want to hear? nothing but bland platitudes that no one wants to hear?

Ellyn I choose:
“Should she say what the Russian readers want to hear?” ;)

Now my opinion:
Why should Irina scale down her opinion to appease the North American skating fan, she doesn’t have an American sponsors/endorsements that she is beholden to, IOW she doesn’t have to be wishy washy in her opinions or have the fakey (word?) ice princess sweetness, which most Americans love. Not that I totally dislike all that sweetness, let’s say I’m somewhere in the middle.

The Ice Princess is part of US Pop Culture (invented by TV Networks) and from what I hear there is no such animal in Russia. Irina doesn’t have to conform to US Ice Princess standards.
Believe it or not some US fans like Irina just the way she is, if some do not so be it. To each his own.

Lark

09-18-2002, 09:15 AM

Have you ever heard the phrase "biting the hand that feeds you"?
Irina is so loathed in America, and by the judges, yet she can lower her standards enough to collect a check from American ice shows.
If she is truly that upset at being "held down", and she wants to constantly belittle her competition by saying they were handed "gifts", then maybe she can go on some European ice show.
I just hattteeee seeing her so worked up. :?

As for the American "Ice Princess", it is just like real life.
Michelle, Sarah, Sasha, Jenny, Angela, etc. all have a job to perform. Just like any job, if you go in acting bitter and putting down your co-workers, then you will not have a job for long.
You have to know where your bread is buttered, and I think most American figure skaters like getting asked to do shows and high paying fluff competitions.
The reason Irina can be so bitter is that she is from another country. We find people like her, Maria and Surya amusing. I am sure it is an outlet. To be honest, Maria, in my opinion, is the only female skater who comes across as honest, and not so whiney and bitter like the other two. While Maria can fling the pooh at times, she seems to have a grasp on most situations, and is uninhibited. She comes across more as an upset woman then a whiney child.

Another point: the only skaters I feel who are really fake in their interviews are Sarah and Sasha, who I genuinely love watching. Sarah is very "rehearsed", saying the same thing every interview. And Sasha looks like her soul is melting everytime she has to repeat the same droll pooh. Sasha looks like she is a bit sedated in her interviews, like she is composing herself so much, that if the interviewer or another skater got crabby with her, she would SNAP!!! (P.S. I would love to see her snap, especially on Peter Caruthers!) teeheeheeheehee :twisted:
Michelle, while coming across very composed, and sometimes frustrated, she seems to be very legitimate and honest.
Jenny and Angela seem very docile to me, like they can barely speak, let alone let pooh fly. (you can tell that I hate cussing: pooh? LOL :D )

Suzanne

09-18-2002, 09:40 AM

Irina is loathed in America??

News to me!!

I would agree that she's not at the top of the North American public's list of favourites (generally speaking of course), but I think 'loathe' is going overboard.

Lark

09-18-2002, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Suzanne
Irina is loathed in America??

News to me!!

I would agree that she's not at the top of the North American public's list of favourites (generally speaking of course), but I think 'loathe' is going overboard. I knew if I did not put a "rolly eyed" smiley, someone would take what I said seriously. The whole first paragraph in my post is what I perceive Irina feeling about the way she is treated. It was said with a ton of grains of salt, and was an observation, not a reflection of my personal feelings.

Suzanne

09-18-2002, 09:57 AM

Yes, the roll-eyes smiley would have helped me realize I wasn't to take your post seriously.

Or maybe it was just that paragraph...? Where does the serious part begin and end...? :)

Blue Ridge

09-18-2002, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by Ellyn
So, if you're Irina's PR expert, how would you advise her to answer Russian reporters who encourage her to say she deserved better than she got against American skaters. Should she say what the Russian readers want to hear? what potential American readers of translations of the interviews want to hear? nothing but bland platitudes that no one wants to hear?

I can say without hesitation that if I were Irina's PR expert (hey, I'm ready to take that on anytime!), I would advise her to say "nothing but bland platitudes" to all journalists. She can talk about her dog and about bungee jumping in Las Vegas, but don't talk about how you felt about the judging in past competitions! It won't benefit you in the long run. Just my best advice to my favorite skater.

I follow Irina pretty closely and I don't think she believes she is loathed in the U.S.!! I don't know where that came from, but she's been on the COI tour being swooned over by fans backstage and being gracious and friendly in return. I also don't think she is "bitter" -- Russian journalists inevitably ask questions that elicit responses that Americans interpret this way, but I don't think she is spending her time venting her spleen all over the place. My impression is that she has spent the summer enjoying being in America, being fawned over by American fans, and celebrating finally winning Worlds!!

JDC1

09-18-2002, 10:30 AM

I'd tell her just to drop all talk about competitions and say something bland, but true, "All I can do is skate my best at the time and hope it's the best. Maybe I don't always agree with the judges but I know that's how it works" and then focus on the cute side of her personality which is very evident.

I don't like the Ice Princess idea but I also cannot stand whiney, bad natured people. Move on, life is short and baggage just drags you down.
I've always liked Maria's honesty, maybe not always agreed with it, but even in English interviews she's honest. IN particular I remember the Lalilque where Peter C. and the other American commentator were frothing at the mouth because they (incorrectly) thought Jenny K should have won and Maria's answer was pretty much " I skate like a woman and she skates like a little girl". She was right and while it wasn't sugary sweet it wasn't obnoxious or whiney either.

nits

09-18-2002, 10:30 AM

But these are Irina's own words, so it is apparent she dislikes America, and it seems Americans for whatever reason. I wonder if Tom Collins got a chance to read the interview? It'll be interesting to see if Irina will return to COI next year.

loveskating

09-18-2002, 10:32 AM

I don't really think Irina has the luxury of saying bland things...because American commentators continually use language of a very negative kind to describe her skating... while saying nice things about her as a person. I was almost in tears owing to some of the commentary last season, before SLC...and although I adore Irina, and more importantly, totally respect her skating, she is not among my top faves...its just that such meanness and cruelty upsets me!

I think Irina and others are wise to reach out to and affirm their fans in Russia and Europe where perhaps, people see skating itself as more of a sport for its own sake to enjoy as one of life's pleasures rather than some kind of affirmation of national superiority. Those are huge populations, dontcha know.

As for all that about Irina taking the money...the way I see it, as an American, is that I am fortunate to be able to see these people skate; its one of the great benefits of a global economy, and I love it. I want to see the best, and I'm sure everyone else does as well...I look forward to world tours by skaters...I'm sure Australians and Indonesians etc. would love to see some world class skaters live.

I am not among those who look for role models in images on a television screen, all packaged for consumption, with product related contracts galore, people I don't know, people who might as well be from a fairy tale as far as I am concerned, and people who have absolutely no effect on my life other than -- put it this way: all I care about is the skating. I mean, Springsteen sings; skaters skate, and its how they do what they do that really matters.

Emanfan

09-18-2002, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by Suzanne
Irina is loathed in America??

News to me!!

Me too! But if it's true, she can always come to Canada. We'll be very happy to have her, anytime!

RoseAugust

09-18-2002, 10:40 AM

I don't think Irina is loathed in American at all. Few Americans visit figure skating discussion boards, much less know what Irina tells Russian journalists. Americans see the fluff pieces on Irina and find her to be adorable, even if they haven't warmed up to her style of skating. However, since I do visit the figure skating boards, I can't help but be disturbed by the two very different sides of Irina that have come to light. And I would be less than honest if I did not admit that my admiration for her has waned considerably this past year as a result.

Blue Ridge

09-18-2002, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by nits
But these are Irina's own words, so it is apparent she dislikes America, and it seems Americans for whatever reason. I wonder if Tom Collins got a chance to read the interview? It'll be interesting to see if Irina will return to COI next year.

First of all, NO, they are not Irina's own words, this interview is a translation. There are always problems with translations from Russian. Second, "it is apparent she dislikes America" is YOUR interpretation, she says nothing of the sort. She does say the following in the interview, "Skating in America is easy and hard at the same time. It's easy because I can speak English, people like me, recognize me on the streets, wish me luck, ask for autographs. Hard - because the Americans don't get the idea of figure skating. It's an art where a personality is beyond of representing one or another country." It seems to me she is indicating a lot of GOOD experiences in the U.S. The "Hard" part for her is that Americans--like fans everywhere--tend to know and favor their fellow country-folk. Sure, she needs to get a little perspective on this--it's true of fans everywhere. But it is particularly frustrating I imagine for non-American skaters because the U.S. is the biggest market for skating so it is where you most want to be known and loved, but you will always come in behind Americans in that. Okay, a bit peevish on her part but hardly the same as a "dislike" of the U.S. or believing she is loathed here.

As for COI, she was very popular on the tour. One comment misinterpreted by internet posters isn't going to bother Tom Collins, however much we may wish to inflate our importance here!

nits

09-18-2002, 11:22 AM

BlueRidge,
Thanks for putting it in the perspective that Irina seems to be blaming the judges and not the American people. It seems her gripe lies with the judges and hopefully not with the Americans per say. Thanks for the heads up. My concern is that Irina is blaming the judges for her own short comings. My other concern is that Irina is dwelling on this too much and it's not doing her any favors.

Blue Ridge

09-18-2002, 12:15 PM

I agree, nits, it doesn't help a skater to focus on whatever complaints they may have about judging, rather than looking at how they can improve their own performance. I hope Irina isn't focused on her past disappointments rather than her future opportunities! It doesn't seem in keeping with her personality for her to focus on her disappointments, but I think there has been an awful lot of that in the Russian media, so I hope that hasn't influenced her too much.

Badams

09-18-2002, 02:52 PM

it seems to me that irina isn't really the one who initiated all of this, but she is rather just a pawn in the russian media's game. it seems that the russian media is trying to convince the russian public that they were short changed at the olympics. and the american public seems to be the ones getting all the blame. it's not irina blaming the americans for anything. it's just that the russian media is trying to put words in her mouth. i think it's a shame to blame irina. perhaps she should be more careful who she speaks to and how she words things.

AxelAnnie22

09-18-2002, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by Badams
it seems to me that irina isn't really the one who initiated all of this, but she is rather just a pawn in the russian media's game. it seems that the russian media is trying to convince the russian public that they were short changed at the olympics. and the american public seems to be the ones getting all the blame. it's not irina blaming the americans for anything. it's just that the russian media is trying to put words in her mouth. i think it's a shame to blame irina. perhaps she should be more careful who she speaks to and how she words things. I suspect you make a very good point. Russian skaters are, to be sure, more tightly controlled than those of the US. When I have SEEN Irina question her marks in a TV interview, when she is speaking English, she is frustrated, but she is smiling. She always seems to have a good perspective. She knows it is sport (as she says) and that the judges judge. Just as Michelle was frustrated when she said everyone keeps telling her to do something different, but when she did, they didn't like that (think the Chris Dean Number), and when she doesn't, they complain "same old, same old". So, I am sure it is frustrating, but I have never SEEN Irina be bitter.

duane

09-18-2002, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by Ellyn
how would you advise her to answer Russian reporters who encourage her to say she deserved better than she got against American skaters. what potential American readers want to hear?

and if she had, the interview would have been as follow:

Q: The newspapers write that the standings at the Olympics are decided beforehand.

A: Well, whether they are or not doesnt matter to me. I just go out there and skate my best.

Q: There are talks that our figure skating is at its peak--no kids to choose from.

A: Well, i dont really pay much attention to anyone else. I just go out there and skate my best.

Q: What did you feel when you saw your second set of marks at SLC?

A: Well, the marks dont matter to me. I was just happy to have skated my best.

Q: Perhaps, there is still a chance for olympic gold?

A: if i win olympic gold, silver, or bronze, i'm satisfied if i skate my best.

Q: What is your strongest impression of the games?

A: That everyone went out there to skate their best.

Q: It seems to me there is a lot that you dont say.

A: Well no **** sherlock! uh, i mean, i just want to continue to skate my best. there is really nothing else to say.

adrianchew

09-18-2002, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by Lark

Most of post not quoted for brevity...

(you can tell that I hate cussing: pooh? LOL :D )

That post seems a little borderline on language - can we try to tone it down a little? Thanks. ~adrianchew~

Blue Ridge

09-19-2002, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by duane
and if she had, the interview would have been as follow:

Q: The newspapers write that the standings at the Olympics are decided beforehand.

A: Well, whether they are or not doesnt matter to me. I just go out there and skate my best.

Q: There are talks that our figure skating is at its peak--no kids to choose from.

A: Well, i dont really pay much attention to anyone else. I just go out there and skate my best.

Q: What did you feel when you saw your second set of marks at SLC?

A: Well, the marks dont matter to me. I was just happy to have skated my best.

Q: Perhaps, there is still a chance for olympic gold?

A: if i win olympic gold, silver, or bronze, i'm satisfied if i skate my best.

Q: What is your strongest impression of the games?

A: That everyone went out there to skate their best.

Q: It seems to me there is a lot that you dont say.

A: Well no **** sherlock! uh, i mean, i just want to continue to skate my best. there is really nothing else to say.

:lol: :lol:
ROFL, Duane!
But honestly (except for the sherlock part :lol: ), that is EXACTLY what she should say, for the good of her own career. Sad, I know, but that's life.

loveskating

09-19-2002, 01:01 PM

ROFL, Duane, for sure!

But if Irina proffered that fluff, I still don't think it would satisfy those Americans who vest national superiority into sports...they will find something or even invent something to disrespect her for...everyone has weaknesses, and so the trick for spinners is to find the weaknesses of their opponents while trying to prevent acknowledgement of the weaknesses of their favorites.

I MUCH prefer honesty and candor, myself. The fluff is so very bland, colorless, and also I find it very manipulative. Personally, outside of those moralities which I apply to myself and everyone else, including not breaking the law, I COULD CARE LESS what kind of a person Irina or any of them are....I just love to see a great skater skate, and she is a great one, IMHO.

Blue Ridge

09-19-2002, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by loveskating
ROFL, Duane, for sure!

But if Irina proffered that fluff, I still don't think it would satisfy those Americans who vest national superiority into sports...they will find something or even invent something to disrespect her for...everyone has weaknesses, and so the trick for spinners is to find the weaknesses of their opponents while trying to prevent acknowledgement of the weaknesses of their favorites.

point well taken, loveskating, but I would still advise Irina to not talk about past judging controversies. Unfortunately, people are highly influenced by this stuff, even if they are not the ones who want to find fault no matter what.

I agree though I don't care what a skater says. For example, I can't stand a lot of what Shae-Lynn Bourne has said, but I love to watch Shae & Vic skate! And that is what matters!

Lark

09-19-2002, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by loveskating

But if Irina proffered that fluff, I still don't think it would satisfy those Americans who vest national superiority into sports... loveskating, I am not sure I understand what you mean by this remark. Could you explain? :)

duane

09-19-2002, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by Lark
Sasha looks like her soul is melting everytime she has to repeat the same droll pooh. Sasha looks like she is a bit sedated in her interviews, like she is composing herself so much, that if the interviewer or another skater got crabby with her, she would SNAP!!! (P.S. I would love to see her snap, especially on Peter Caruthers!)

i think sasha's experience with speaking her mind in 2000 has a lot to do with this.

after being interviewed after 2000 Nationals, when sasha gave the impression that michelle won the gold because of her reputation, she was criticized greatly. i remember the following season at one of the early competitions (skate america, canada...one of those), both sarah and sasha skated fairly well, while maria splattered all over the ice and still came in 1st. when peter carruthers asked them afterwards what they thought about maria placing over them, both young ladies looked like a deer-in-headlights! of course, they both sounded very rehearsed as they blurted out the typical "i'm just happy to have skated well" reply! sasha had obviously learned her lesson about speaking candidly.

speedy

09-20-2002, 11:43 AM

loveskating

09-20-2002, 12:13 PM

Hello Lark:

Sure...I'll clarify.

I agree with Irina that most Americans (who I'd define as more or less casual fans of skating, although Irina didn't qualify with that) tune in to see the old nation win gold....its a valid POV, not mine, but certainly a real phenomenon.

For instance, most of the people where I work never watch skating, but always watch the Olympics and Olympic skating, and root for "our guys" to win the gold in all cases. Of those who do watch skating often, most cannot tell an axel from a loop, and root for some skater from the U.S. in all cases, based on their feelings about the skater. Only a few people where I work know anything about skating and can discuss it intelligently...which is why I love these forums, LOL! Usually, these are from the Ukraine or Russia or something and spent years skating with lessons, LOL!

It may be like that in every country, I don't know.

I don't think those folks with that that POV respond beyond a certain point to skaters from other countries, is all, no matter what they say or do. I'm not saying these folks are terrible, just stating what I think is a fact. I think there are exceptions, like Oksana Baiul.

Then there is "out of bounds" in that category, but that's another subject.

As for me, I enjoy skating, music, including opera, theater, movies, art all for their own sakes...I positively hate "political art" for I find it boring and tedius (again, there are exceptions) but regard everything as having meaning...so as to the competitions, I always root most (if I'm there) for whomever I think is the best skater...yet I normally love almost all of the skaters and find the differences between them miniscule.

loveskating

09-20-2002, 12:33 PM

I don't think it's the fact that she's speaking her mind as much as it is called being a "bad sport." You can speak your mind all you want to, but complaining months or years after the fact just makes you look like a bitter, sore loser. She, just like Michelle, controlled her own destiny at the Olympics...they both screwed up, end of story. Sarah was the only skater in that competition that "earned" the gold medal with her skating, not with a reputation.

I think Irina has a valid claim that she should have won...by which I mean that it was debatable because of the SP, but she did not, and its over, and there is nothing to be done about it. Sarah Hughes is no flake as a skater, and that's nice.

Otherwise, I think you are absolutely right. I find it so upsetting that some people claim that Manley, Wylie, Kerrigan, B&K, Stojko etc. etc. etc. "wuz robbed" on and on and on forever. Its ok with me to debate the skating...because people can learn from that, but to hold grudges and attack or insult skaters and judges and all that for years and years, and one after another, seems to poison the WHOLE well too much for my taste!

duane

09-20-2002, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by speedy
You can speak your mind all you want to, but complaining months or years after the fact just makes you look like a bitter, sore loser.

the point some of us are trying to make is that in the sport of FS, especially when it comes to American skaters, the athletes cant speak their minds as they want to. there seems to be an unwritten rule when it comes to American skaters: never criticize the judges, never complain about the results of a competition, never voice the opinion that you deserved the win, and if at all possible, totally avoid discussing anything about your rivals. coaches, fans, and commentators can do so, but not the skaters!

many feel that nancy kerrigan should have won the gold in 94 (and it is still debated to this day! :) ), but when nancy herself expressed this same opinion, she was criticized. i personally feel the 94 results were correct, but i loved that nancy broke the "rule" of the game, and was blunt in her opinion that the judges got it wrong. we never hear such candor from American skaters, which is why interviews given by Russian skaters--who have always been more forthcoming in their opinions--are so much more interesting, and always seem to cause much debate and discussion! :D

Twizzler

09-20-2002, 10:32 PM

I think that Irina was also expressing her frustration that she worked hard on her presentation mark but it was still low. The problem, I think, was she was concentrating so hard on the choreography that the technique slipped. Also, she was not on (nervous?) during the Olympics LP so the presentation didn't come off. I think she needs to realize that working hard on presentation is only one part, you have to be able to do it when it counts.

Excidra

09-20-2002, 11:06 PM

Why should Irina lie to Russian journalist when the Russian people gave her a gold medal because they thought she was not given a fair shot in SLC, and I agree with them.
Wasn't it the Russian people who welcomed Slutskaya home after SLC.

Maybe Irina is frustrated because she probably heard Dick and Peggy talking trash about her skating.

Irina is a very classy women and very honest. She is usually the first to shake her fellow competitiors hand. She gave Michelle a hug after she lost worlds both times.
She has praised Michelle and Sarah many times in interviews. What does she get, nothing. Michelle has never said anything good about Irina's skating, Sarah has never given Irina any credit.
Now you tell me who is classy.

Nits is Irina's biggest critic. He probably thinks Irina is the worst skater in the world. He doesn't see Irina's good quality and believes she has been held up through out her career.
I find it funny that you think Irina didn't deserve to win worlds in 02. she blew her competition out of the water, including your favorite.

Excidra

09-20-2002, 11:10 PM

I enjoyed reading the article, Irina is a really honest person. She doesn't have to give out a politically correct answer, for fear her fans would turn against her or it just won't fit the image she has created.

hydro

09-21-2002, 02:04 AM

i liked the interview. i'm glad Irina has an outlet to speak her mind, and i highly doubt if she gave "American" interviews just like this she'd be crucified. Americans like their share of trash talk too, especially with women. this whole ice princess image is pretty dated now. Michelle Kwan was never the ice princess, either was Tara, or Sarah or Sasha. all of them were considered young women athletes. Michelle has had her share of critics, so i doubt she fits that ice princess mold.

Maybe Irina is frustrated because she probably heard Dick and Peggy talking trash about her skating.

Dick and Peggy have said pretty nasty things about every skater, i'm sure they all get frustrated with them. Irina is not the only one singled out here, don't misconstrue what they say.

Irina is a very classy women and very honest. She is usually the first to shake her fellow competitiors hand. She gave Michelle a hug after she lost worlds both times.
She has praised Michelle and Sarah many times in interviews. What does she get, nothing. Michelle has never said anything good about Irina's skating, Sarah has never given Irina any credit.
Now you tell me who is classy.

how do you know she is the first to shake a competitor's hand? i don't think you do. you're just assuming based on your preconcieved notions of Irina. and i've heard Sarah and Michelle say great things about Irina as a competitor and a friend. what doesn't Irina get? she has loads of respect among fans, judges, and her competitors. what else is she entitled to? sure, she gets criticism, but who honestly doesn't?

Nits is Irina's biggest critic. He probably thinks Irina is the worst skater in the world. He doesn't see Irina's good quality and believes she has been held up through out her career.
I find it funny that you think Irina didn't deserve to win worlds in 02. she blew her competition out of the water, including your favorite.

Irina has many wonderful qualities to her skating, that's why she is ranked number 1. but blew her competition out of the water? a bit of an exageration there, don't you think? Irina has been on the end of some questionable judging calls including 4 first place ordinals at the Olympics. the LP at worlds 2002 wasn't that clear cut at all. 3 judges actually went with Michelle on an Eastern stacked panel.

loveskating

09-21-2002, 09:14 AM

I have to agree with Excidra that last season Dick and Peggy singled Irina out for some really insulting and vicious remarks, also made in a very insulting tone, which additionally were just not true. I have never heard them say anything similar about a top American skater except for Dick calling Angela Nikodinov "a refrigerator break skater" which IMHO she never has been...although she has improved.

I think what they do is point out the weaknesses or invent weaknesses and then they don't do the same for their favorites...when the skaters all have weaknesses and make mistakes. One of the vicious comments had to do with stretch out...now if Irina needs to stretch out more, then certainly on her spiral sequence, Sarah does. Yet according to Dick and Peggy, Sarah's spiral sequence is "perfect" and "exquisite". Sorry, I can't buy it...and when you have spirals like Sasha's and MK's its trully impossible to buy it. Sarah cheats the extension on her spirals, all of them, her leg is very obviously and badly bent.

Lark

09-21-2002, 12:28 PM

That brings up an interesting question:

Which is worse, a bent-leg spiral or a Nancy "hold your leg" spiral?

Jimmy Hoffa

09-21-2002, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Excidra
Maybe Irina is frustrated because she probably heard Dick and Peggy talking trash about her skating.
I thought you said you didn't even know who Dick and Peggy are a few days ago somewhere else. I guess you found out pretty quickly.:D

adrianchew

09-21-2002, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Lark

Which is worse, a bent-leg spiral or a Nancy "hold your leg" spiral?

The Kerrigan spiral (as its sometimes called) is actually a valid technique for spirals... the only requirement for spirals is that the free leg be above the waist (if I remember right). Of course, extension, etc counts.

The bent free leg shows a weakness in extending the free leg out properly.

Anyhow for those wondering what Kerrigan spirals are, Jenny Kirk who used to train under the Scotvolds who coached Nancy, does them all the time too...

http://www.figureskatersonline.com/jenniferkirk/gallery/01-02/index.html

This is from Sarah's Olympics exhibition...

http://www.dianesrink.com/sarah/gallery/olympics/exhibition/sh06.jpg

Notice the toe point (direction of the toepick) is different? The extension plus toe point that Jenny has is better than Sarah's... which is what some people are referring to in the extension and toe point.

adrianchew

09-21-2002, 01:49 PM

More examples...

Sasha from her Olympic SP...

http://www.sashafans.com/fancentral/gallery/2002olympics/short/short-ap-12.jpg

That's about as straight as it gets, with perfect toe point. You can't get a spiral free leg position better than that.

You can visit Jay's site - he has Sarah and Michelle doing spirals on the front page...

http://www.jayadeff.com/

Sarah's spiral - bent free leg, some toe point. Michelle has less toe point but a nicely extended free leg. The bent free leg actually helps Sarah's toe point but you're supposed to arch (toe point) at the ankle, not bend at the knee. Notice how between Sarah and Michelle - Michelle's arms are fully extended as well (muscle tension showing).

All these spirals are much better than I've seen quite a number of skaters at other levels do.

nits

09-21-2002, 05:39 PM

I am Irina's greatest critic?! I think you need to venture from the "official" Irina board more often.
I don't think Irina blew anyone out of the water at Worlds '02. She was overmarked in the SP, and I didn't think she should have won the LP.
I am concerned that Irina has been complaining to the press that she felt she should have won numerous competitions. I didn't see Michelle, or Sarah complaining after the GPF that they were cheated by the judges. Heck, they didn't say a word!
Poor sportsmanship is poor sportsmanship. Whether I like a skater or not has nothing to do with it.

Excidra

09-21-2002, 10:16 PM

Nits,

Maybe you can tell us where Irina should've been placed after the LP in Nagano. Or the marks you would've given her for her SP.
Remember, the Russian judge ranked Michelle ahead of a clean fumie.Afer she stumbled on a required jump. Do you think that judge gave Michelel the correct placement?

Also, at Skate Canada, Fumie turned in a clean SP and Michelle fell on a required jump. Yet Michelle still placed ahead a of a clean Fumie, do you think that was the right decision?
We can't forget Michelle's LP at Skate Canada(her butt was all over the ice) do you think 3rd place was the correct placement for her?

Please enlighten us.

nits

09-21-2002, 10:32 PM

Looks like Irina isn't the only one that needs to get over the Olympics.
I'm not going to get into a "board fight" about Irina's skating Excidra. I am entitled to my opinion.
Jumps are not everything. There are other required elements that the judges look for. :roll:

Excidra

09-21-2002, 10:46 PM

You still haven't answered my questions.
It is known fact that Irina has the best spins in the ladies field(just ask Tracy Wilson). She performs the most difficult footwork in the ladies field.
Her spirals are the hardest in the ladies field(could be argued)..

Your so good at voicing your opinion about how Irina is always held up by the judges, but your not answering my questions.
Maybe Louis can help you out.

hydro

09-21-2002, 10:47 PM

We can't forget Michelle's LP at Skate Canada(her butt was all over the ice) do you think 3rd place was the correct placement for her?

Please enlighten us.

actually, Michelle's butt only hit the ice once in the beginning of the program. she went on to land 5 solid clean triples and was placed in 3rd accordingly. Fumie also landed 5 triples (with one of her triples a little tight), and finished behind Michelle. what is the questionable call here? i don't think anyone ever argued that 3rd was the incorrect placement for Michelle. do you have a plausible reason to place her lower?

also, if you're so concerned with triples, at the last GPF Sarah landed 7 including a 3/3, Michelle landed 6, and Irina landed 3 (4 if you want to count the flip). guess who won? Irina came out on top, in an Eastern bloc vote. 3 judge placed Irina 3rd while the 4 eastern judges placed Irina first. questionable call? you bet.

and can you honestly defend the 4 first place ordinals Irina received at the Olys?

Excidra

09-21-2002, 10:48 PM

It won't let me edit.

Nits, can you tell us the required elements Irina is lacking?

Excidra

09-21-2002, 10:51 PM

I have always said Michelle should've won the GPF LP 2, but I would take Irina's 4 triples(two clean lutz) to Sarah's flutz and under-rotated jumps.

Excidra

09-21-2002, 10:52 PM

Can you defend the 2 1st place ordinals Michelle took from Sarah?

nits

09-21-2002, 10:53 PM

Excidra,
I editted my post to add that I would not have a "board fight" with you, you must've missed that one. You may want to follow your own advice about contacting Louis though.

hydro

09-21-2002, 10:56 PM

It is known fact that Irina has the best spins in the ladies field(just ask Tracy Wilson). She performs the most difficult footwork in the ladies field.
Her spirals are the hardest in the ladies field(could be argued)..

Your so good at voicing your opinion about how Irina is always held up by the judges, but your not answering my questions.
Maybe Louis can help you out.

well, aren't we all here to voice our opinions? and that's just what they are opinions. including the judges. they have informed opinions, but they still make opinions based on relevant facts.

known fact that Irina has the best spins? says Tracy Wilson? since when was Tracy Wilson the be all end all in skating? Irina's spins are excellent, but hardly the best. her positions could use some work, so could her centering. Naomi Nari Nam has the best spins i've ever seen on TV.

hardest footwork? in which program? the footwork in Tosca seemed pretty straightforward - a bunch of clockwise 3 turns and some rockers - difficult, yes, but not the most difficult. the SP i could see your argument, however, its usually the speed of the footwork that makes it so difficult.

most difficult spirals? she covers a lot of ice, true, but i spiral is easier held when the position is so-so.

you are voicing your opinions, and other people are voicing there opinions. you love Irina's skating, great! she's a great skater and has a wonderful personality that you respect and admire. but that doesn't mean everyone has to.