Twizzles

[Isk8NYC]

Twizzles - how do you do these dance turns? Any good tips for getting started?

[Bill_S]

My twizzles (at least CCW) are fair. I started practicing double-threes years ago as a method to learn back threes better. At first it was slow, and I was just getting in lots of repetitions of the back threes.

After a while though, I started to speed them up a little. Now they are fairly fast, although not as fast as the TV skaters.

I've used them as an entrance into a scratch spin -- several revolutions twizzling, then step into the spin entrance from a RBO edge.

To initiate a CCW twizzle, I begin with a glide on the left foot, right foot pointed in front, and the left hand extended in front, right hand extended to the side. Step onto a RFI edge w/ bent knee and rotate the right arm in front, left arm in back opposite the right. The rotation begins with that motion for me.

I've often done a version of a twizzle where I am (kinda) tight for rapid rotation, but then open up the arms and free leg to slow down for half a rev. I then repeat the in-out-in step to vary the rotational speed. I called these "interrupted threes".

Here's a short video (http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~schneidw/skating/images/interrupted-3s.mov) from 2003 showing what I mean, but I'm not in the best of form. I had been skating for only 4 years when I made it. Free arm and leg positions need improvement in the video. I hope they're better now.

[phoenix]

The easiest ones to start w/ are FI twizzles. Start with singles. The right foot will likely feel better than left because that's your backspin foot.

And definitely work on double 3's, or running 3's if you can--it will help you find where the weight needs to be. If you can do running 3's and gradually speed them up w/ less & less check, until there is no check (and ideally no knee movement), that's a good way to start. The movement on the blade becomes less-you still will shift fwd to back, but not as much as for a 3 turn.

Most people learning can do the first turn, but don't get the weight off the toe for the second turn.

I'll put in more later; if I make it to the rink today I'll tape an exercise to start working on them.

[Isk8NYC]

Thanks, phoenix - I always like your exercises.

[renatele]

I like the twizzle exercise in Physics on Ice (vol. 1) video - and as far as I know, quite a few adult skaters have learned twizzles watching it ;)

[Sessy]

I can do the series of 3 turns ( could even before I started skating, when I just went twice a year to the rink on sundays, for some reason, LOL!) but I alsways end up travelling in a semi-circle (bent trajectory) instead of in a straight line like on tv...?

[das_mondlicht]

I like the twizzle exercise in Physics on Ice (vol. 1) video - and as far as I know, quite a few adult skaters have learned twizzles watching it ;)

I learned the inside twizzles this way, too! :D I think the rubberband concept from Physics on Ice sells twizzle pretty well. Bill also has clearly explained it. Some time back, I tried it first time and then got it right away. I showed them to my coach. She was pretty surprised that I can do them well at some speed. My coach wanted me to practice F double 3s to improve the revolutions and control of twizzles. But, my back 3s are still pathetic. :frus:

[Mrs Redboots]

I like the twizzle exercise in Physics on Ice (vol. 1) video - and as far as I know, quite a few adult skaters have learned twizzles watching it ;)I certainly did! I can only do FI and BI twizzles, though, not any outside ones, and the only double one I can do is a RBI one.

BUT I am beginning to be able to do them moving between them, rather than grinding to a halt (scary.....).

BUT again, this morning I saw an elite dancer do the most incredible twizzles - he did about ten, non-stop, then flung out his free leg, changed edge, and carried on in the other direction, without touching down! :bow: :bow: Now those were twizzles, although his twizzles do sometimes look like a horrendously travelling spin!

I asked him if he could do that on either foot, and he said he could, but I didn't see him demonstrate it!

[cathrl]

I thought BI twizzles were harder than BO ones?

I can't do any, but when my daughter switched to dance she discovered that her horrid travelling backspin which her figure coach had been trying to fix was in fact a perfect RI forward twizzle :) She can't understand what the difficulty is with it :(

[Mrs Redboots]

I thought BI twizzles were harder than BO ones?I don't find them so!

I can't do any, but when my daughter switched to dance she discovered that her horrid travelling backspin which her figure coach had been trying to fix was in fact a perfect RI forward twizzle :) She can't understand what the difficulty is with it :(<Giggle> :lol: Quite right, too - good for her!

[phoenix]

Twizzle exercise:

http://phoenix.sk8rland.com/video/twizzles%202_07.AVI

Start w/ singles, once those are comfortable, go to doubles, then triples, etc. You can also do them w/ arms overhead (5th ballet position), which will help align your upper body.

The goal is to do these w/o the toepick ever touching the ice, especially as you finish the backward turn & go into the side lunge.

I've found that it's very important for the free foot to be tight against your leg (which I don't always do well), to keep your balance from leaning to the side as you spin. Lift your knee so the foot doesn't go behind you. Think about starting on a bent knee, & rise UP to start the twizzle.

Hope that might be helpful!

[Mrs Redboots]

I actually had a lesson this morning on twizzles. The easiest ones are the BI ones, my coach confirmed this. I told him, by the way, about Cathrl's daughter's travelling backspin or perfect twizzles, and he laughed and agreed.

I asked him how to do outside twizzles (he nearly fell over trying to show me, but I kindly didn't laugh, especially as his wife had seen), and he said the easiest way to learn was to do a 1-revolution spin, and then step down and do the same on the other foot - you want your free leg in the same position as when you start spinning - knee up, foot in by the side of your leg.

[flo]

Think of keeping the motion going forward - it really helps.

[phoenix]

Yes, when I'm working on the FO ones, it helps me to focus on a small glide between each turn, otherwise they tend to turn into spins & I never get back onto the blade for the backward turn....esp. the left foot of course, which is your fwd spin foot.

For me, the order of difficulty from easiest to hardest is: FI, BO, BI, FO.

[das_mondlicht]

Twizzle exercise:

http://phoenix.sk8rland.com/video/twizzles%202_07.AVI



Thank you so much for sharing your video. It flows very nice.

I can only do the first revolution with some speed like your first pass in the video. I should try to challenge myself to do the second one. I learned the FI twizzle on my own and have tried the FO twizzles like traveling spins but without luck. Anyway, what is BI and BO twizzles? Are they similar to Backward double 3s? More tips and explanation are greatly appreciated.

[Mrs Redboots]

Well, the BI twizzle is like a FI one except that you start with a back inside edge, rather than a forward inside edge. Similarly BO is like FO twizzle, only backwards.

Sort of like backward double 3s - my coach says you ought to learn double 3s first before you start twizzles, but I find twizzles easier! His twizzles are very much continuous 3-turns, but those of one of our elite dancers resemble travelling spins.... and he (my coach) admires the dancer's ones, so....

[phoenix]

Well, the BI twizzle is like a FI one except that you start with a back inside edge, rather than a forward inside edge. Similarly BO is like FO twizzle, only backwards.


Actually, it's the opposite of that. BI is like FO, just starting backwards (you're doing FO turns to BI turns), and FI is like BO (you're doing FI turns to BO turns).

My coach has me practice the FO ones landing w/ a cross step in between, so you don't end up on your toe picks.

[Mrs Redboots]

My coach has me practice the FO ones landing w/ a cross step in between, so you don't end up on your toe picks.Most coaches teach them like that, I think - and from what my coach was showing me yesterday, this is actually easier.

[cathrl]

Well, the BI twizzle is like a FI one except that you start with a back inside edge, rather than a forward inside edge. Similarly BO is like FO twizzle, only backwards.

Sort of like backward double 3s - my coach says you ought to learn double 3s first before you start twizzles, but I find twizzles easier! His twizzles are very much continuous 3-turns, but those of one of our elite dancers resemble travelling spins.... and he (my coach) admires the dancer's ones, so....

The technical details on the solo ice dance qualifier forms (twizzles are a required element) explicitly say that continuous 3-turns don't count. Which is a shame for my hopes of ever doing anything worthy of the name, because I can (just about) do double 3s starting FI. I can't spin worth anything, which is probably why I can't twizzle either. But you do have to end up with a tracing which has pointy bits rather than overlapping loops, or it really is a travelling spin and that doesn't count either...and they have to go in a straight line, and if you're doing one foot then the other, the second foot's straight line has to be in the same direction as the first foot's...

Sigh. Can you tell how much of my skating time I spend squinting at the ice while my daughter demands, "mum, was that a spin or a twizzle?" If she's going to ask me, I figure I better know what the right answer is :) One of these days I'll even get some space to practice my own...

It's funny, though, watching the kids - some can just do them and some really struggle. And it doesn't seem to correspond with how good they are at other elements. Which gives me hope :)

[Team Arthritis]

Hey Phoenix, loved the vid, thanks. I was amazed by your control, especially coming out of a double twizzle and just stopping rotation onto a flat - how do you DO that!? Mine seem to get too deep on the edges and its tough to check
Lyle

[twokidsskatemom]

my daughter has them in her pre pre fs program. She says they are fun but then, she likes footwork !

[phoenix]

Hey Phoenix, loved the vid, thanks. I was amazed by your control, especially coming out of a double twizzle and just stopping rotation onto a flat - how do you DO that!? Mine seem to get too deep on the edges and its tough to check
Lyle

PRACTICE!! lol, I do them almost every time I skate in one form or another (I have other exercises that include twizzles too, including one seriously evil one that incorporates lots of lunges into the mix)

But you learn to kind of start the exit process as you do the last 1/2 turn--bend your skating knee to stop the rotation & get the other foot ready to set down.

Actually that day they felt not great. I usually don't tip quite so much, esp. on doubles. Usually I start the exercise w/ doubles, then go on to triples. I can do 4 on the right foot, but 3 is usually the limit on my left.

And on FO, I can do a fairly comfortable 4 on my right foot, but on the left I'm lucky to get 2 before it falls apart. :giveup:

[phoenix]

The technical details on the solo ice dance qualifier forms (twizzles are a required element) explicitly say that continuous 3-turns don't count. Which is a shame for my hopes of ever doing anything worthy of the name, because I can (just about) do double 3s starting FI. I can't spin worth anything, which is probably why I can't twizzle either. But you do have to end up with a tracing which has pointy bits rather than overlapping loops, or it really is a travelling spin and that doesn't count either...


Yes, all very good points. They're really watching the blade to see if you're spinning or twizzling.

They added a little side rule last year, giving some allowance for lower level skaters who are doing twizzles (to acknowledge the difficulty)--up through Intermediate you are allowed *some* knee movement as you do them, without getting points whacked off. But once you hit novice, bobbing up & down (ie, 3 turns) will get a big deduction, and maybe not even called as a twizzle (not sure how they'd actually mark it).

BUT--when you're learning them, I've found it helpful to start out thinking of it as a series of 3 turns & let my knees help a bit. As you get more comfortable/better, then you'll be able to smooth them out. I still bob my knee on the left FO ones (much to my coach's dismay).

[Thin-Ice]

I read this thread last week with great interest at the idea of even attempting these... and was relieved thinking "well, at least I don't have to worry about trying them!".

Then WHACK! on Friday my coach said "Today we're going to start on twizzles" and all I could think is I want all the notes from SkatingForums!!! I did kind of manage the FIs once... so now of course, she's put them in the footwork for my program! EEK!!!