Loopy Club!!!

[Skate@Delaware]

I'm curious....who has gotten their loop this year????? Or at least landed it once if you've been trying for ages????? And how long have you been working on that and your backspin? How many revolutions do you have on your backspin???

Speak up and tell about it!

I've been working on the loop a little over a year (off and on); same with the backspin. I am now getting about 2 revolutions on my backspin....(last year it was 2-3 or more).

I have landed the loop "correctly" on one foot twice; and promptly fell over onto my hip (coach says it shows my weight was in the right place).

[jazzpants]

Oh, God!!! You don't wanna know how long I've been working on that loop.... :roll:

Let's see...

2001 - Primary coach couldn't get thru to me on the loop, so I had a secondary coach work on it for a short time and he got me to land my first ones...Long story, that secondary coach didn't work out (The RSSIR crowd know what I'm talking about... :roll: ) and I promptly lost it. I've had at least 2 other coaches looked at it before the CURRENT secondary coach got me somewhere.

Fast forward to about Sept 2005, I was landing them for about 3 weeks straight before I took a very nasty fall losing the edge on the loop entry and spraining my inner thigh in the process. Needless to say... when I finally recovered, I got the old 2 footed landing again and I'm back on this frustration again...

Fast forward to this year (2007) Recently my secondary coach noticed that I am able to land the loop clean and consistently when I'm near a wall... so she decided to start doing "muscle memory" exercises by (at first) forbidding me from doing the loop anyway but at the wall, then a little bit further away from the wall and now finally right out in the middle of the rink. It's still a lot of work that secondary coach is working on... but at least now I'm landing them clean (and I mean fully rotated) with about 85-90% consistency. Of course, I'm still cautious about it, since it's only been about 2 weeks... but so far I've taken a couple of falls on the loop and it didn't kill or injured me, so I think I'm finally on a roll and I hope this time the loop is for keeps!!! :D

I believe that the flip is also going thru a similar problem so I'll probably be training the flip the same way so I can finally start landing THOSE clean too!!!

[Sonic]

Hi

I got my loop this year. For me, it was practising on the floor that helped, because my backspin is lousy; (I'm one of those skaters who seems to have a wierd technique for everything lol!)

Personally I think the transition from jumping off one foot to another to jumping and landing on the same foot is really difficult, I know a number of people who've taken over a year to get loop. My dance coach says she hated loop (and she got up to tripples)!

S xxx

[Tiggerwoos]

Landed loop first lesson back (last week) that was retaught it (or something that resembles it) but had learnt it as a child, so think that's why, although after a good start have started chickening out of it now, due to the amount of landings on my bum!

Only thing is it doesn't look too great. Must work on getting more than a few cms off the ice! Can't do a backspin yet though as haven't been taught it.

[Sessy]

I landed it, and I land it - though with some difficulty right now due to a recently sprained anckle. I have 1 revolution on my backspin... Well, 2 or 3 if I'm lucky. And then still it's not a spin, but a series of backward and forward 3-turns.

Basically, I already swing my arms around in the 3-turn and I keep them like... at the same level as my shoulders so they don't destabilize me (otherwise, I can't jump it, cuz I fall) and then right after the 3-turn, I don't make a deep edge. Instead I get out of the 3-turn onto a pretty flat edge, have my free leg just slide slightly over the ice and I jump up and around. My free leg goes swings up, so I get more height, and my arms pull in and I can just squeeze out a landing even though I'm not getting any height at all it seems: but from the swinging arms, which I pull in, I get so much momentum that I don't need to be long in the air to make a revolution.

When I do 2 in a row, the second one is usually a quarter to a third under-rotated.

I practiced it very long in the evenings before non-curtained windows (then the windows function as mirror, because it's light inside and dark outside). I'd start back to the window, on socks, slide the 3-turn and jump up and mind to see in the mirror if I was having my arms both on shoulder level. At first, I had the idea that I was keeping my back arm on shoulder level, but it was way sagging. And then, when I could do it on the floor, I went to try on the ice. Again, using the boarding as a mirror to see what I was doing.
Took me 2 months to get I think, I got it simultaneously with the flip... Somehow the two jumps have something in common, I'm just not sure what.


I was taught the half-loop after I was taught the loop by the way and of course, I instantly got the half-loop. We learn not the half-loop before the loop but eh... Well basically, you take off like on the loop, but then spread your legs out in the air as far as you can (left leg forward for ccw), sort of like the splits, and land forward on the left leg toepick, instantly (I really DO mean instantly, or else you'll fall) you put down the right foot right next to it and ride it out on a 3-turn.
It really helps to get the loop, because you learn to swing that leg for height.


By the way, my flip and loop I also got by the wall. I think it's got something to do with the deepness of the edge which you get out on after the 3-turn, it's shallower by the wall and the 3-turn is straighter instead of curved by the wall, I think.

[Scarlett]

I landed my loop once last month...it was a fluke. Yesterday, I managed to land 6 clean ones out of about 20 attempts. I have been working on it since June of last year so about 8 months. I would not even dream of calling it consistent. What really made the difference for me was working on the APB 3turn pattern because it forced me to become comfortable with my entrance LI 3 turn.

I have have a consistent backspin of about 4-5 centered revolutions. Backspins just seem easier for me, my forward upright spin is inconsistent at best with about 4 revolutions if I'm lucky.

[Sessy]

I have have a consistent backspin of about 4-5 centered revolutions. Backspins just seem easier for me, my forward upright spin is inconsistent at best with about 4 revolutions if I'm lucky.

I used to have the same problem on my old blades (also, with a better backspin than forward spin and 4 revs if lucky). The blade on the left skate was mounted improperly and had bent unnoticeably for me over time... Basically, if you would like, take the left skate, turn it around with the blade up, and look down the blade - just like you'd look down a gun (you know, with the blade back pointed at your face somewhere by your nose and the blade pointing straight away from your face with the toepicks facing away from your face) - you could see that the forward part of the blade wasn't in line with the back part of the blade, but rather curving to the inside of the skate.
Apparently, it's not even an entirely uncommon problem, according to the skate shop guy. He said skates that come from the factory with blades already mounted sometimes have that problem.
I'm not saying that's your problem as well, I'm just saying check your blades to be sure :)

And on the spin, if you're ccw, keep your right arm, leg and head like... in 1 vertical line. Like when you move your leg forward, you also move your arm forward and you do not look over your right shoulder or to your right with your head, but to the front. And you follow your left shoulder into the rotation. Make sure to bend deeply on the knee before initiating the rotation.
:)

[Morgail]

Well, I actually landed my loop (for good, I hope) in October or November of last year, but I just got my backspin this year. Worked on the loop for about 6 or 7 months, got it and lost it twice, before finally really getting it last fall. (Keep in mind, though, that I could do this jump about 10 years ago as a teenager. I think it would have taken me much longer to get it if I'd never done it before.) Backspin, however, I had never gotten until just about a month ago. Finally! I've been working on that for about 9 or 10 months. Now, I consistently get about 3 rotations, but only 2 rotations in my program (for whatever reason). For me, getting it really involving getting over the mind block as to how odd it felt to spin over the RO edge. Now I just have to remember to stand up straight as I have a tendency to break at the waist and throw the spin off entirely. Good luck with your loop and backspin:)

[DallasSkater]

Still working on the loop jump. Really helped to have a make up lesson with a different coach as I have now had 3 different coaches explain it all in their own way...each added something that made me better understand the mechanics of it. Watching the whole back 3 into getting my leg crossed at the gym in the mirrors has helped a lot too. (Though I always look a bit funky when people walk into the step room wondering what I am doing)

The back spin is coming along. I consistently am able to get a few revolutions though slow. They seem to be extremely centered too. Seems even better than my regular one foot spin forward. However, I can get a lot of revolutions on it but can never really get a fully centered one. Hopefully, new blades will help.

My group instructor has me practicing all my back 3 turns leaving the free foot crossed and in front. That really has paid off too. I am certainly more comfortable but still don't have it. Practice is what it will take.

I am concerned that everyone is reporting months to a year to get this. I am expected to have it in weeks to pass this intermediate freestyle class along with the flip and the sit spin...which we have not even started yet! I think this is the first class that I may not pass the first go round. There are some kids in the class that are on their 3rd semester in the same class! Most of the kids make it through in one class semester though. Not many adults stay with LTS at this level. There is one other adult. He does not have a coach or practice as I do..but he is about where I am ...he just has more guts to "Hail Mary" this and other things we try. I am just going to take it at my own pace and just do the best I can.

Congrats to all that have achieved it! It does feel like a mile marker!

[Terri C]

As of this afternoon's lesson, I can "officially" join!
After this ligament strain on the right outside of my ankle that I got on a fall on the loop- I did a few this afternoon and granted they were standstill, but not bad for not jumping for approx. 6 weeks! Yay me!
My backscratch spin is also stronger- Coach thinks I need PT all the time, as the PT I've been getting for the ligament strain has improved my balance!

[Sk8pdx]

...Personally I think the transition from jumping off one foot to another to jumping and landing on the same foot is really difficult, I know a number of people who've taken over a year to get loop. ....S xxx


Yup, Sonic you said it. That's me! This has been a very big challenge for me My right side (and this is probably common for many) is my weak side but i mean REALLY weak.

I started with the basics of the loop at the wall in February last year. I landed it a while back I think in September entirely as a fluke. My mind and my body had a conversation like this:
Mind: 8O What did you just do?
Body: I dunno, I can't remember what it was
Mind: well great! how am I supposed to retain it for later???

Then I struggled some more with it til just this week I think my body finally got the timing right.I landed loop about 10 times at practice. not all in a row though. I was afraid to go to bed Wednesday night because I would forget how to loop jump. I am still entering the loop from a RFI 3 turn only holding the check for a little longer out of the 3 turn and then jumping and it seems to work. I also am making the 3 turn more straighter so that the loop doesnt turn from pre-rotated into over-rotated.

Loop isn't consistent as of yet. I will land one. then do a couple with a 2 foot landing or not rotated all the way but I am still making progress with it.

I have also been working on waltz jump - loop combinations. and waltz jump 1/2 loop combinations as well. It is helping me get all the weight transferred onto the right side.

Backspin is still a problem as well. I can only get about 2 revs. I have never been able to get to the 3rd rev yet.
Funny thing I have notices reading everyones posts. :lol: Seems like we are all in backspin hades so I wonder what the trick is to get out of it. *sigh*. Later on we should have a backspin club thread for those of us who have succeeded those too. :D
Keep pressing on to the goal!
~sk8pdx

[newskaker5]

My coach taught me the loop jump before the backspin. At first when he showed it to me it made no sense at all - its an awkward feeling jump. I worked out it the whole 2 hr session he showed me and by the next week I was landing it fine and it actually made sense. As soon as I got my weight in the right place it happened right away. This was maybe 1-2 months ago and I can do a loop-loop now and sort of a waltz-loop (when I do this at speed it is horrible but from a stand it is OK). The loop is far from perfect - apparently I get great height but I dont get too much distance since according to my coach I do the jump like a roller skater (and ive never roller skated!)

I still cant do a backspin, but he did try to teach it to me the last few weeks- apparentley I spin on the wrong part of the blade - I think im on an outside edge vs inside. I did ONE from a pivot the other day which was exciting, but otherwise it doesnt exist.

[jazzpants]

It's funny that everyone commented on the backspin along with the loop, so I'll add my comments about my backspin too...

I have been able to do that backspin since sometime in 2005 b/c I did it in my Pre-Bronze FS competition program. (I got a bit of a surprised from Mistress Coach (my former secondary coach) b/c the last time she saw me I couldn't even manage a one-revolution turn on the backspin even...

Right now though, I have been working with my current secondary coach in keeping the backspin on the BO edge instead of doing little 3's, but I expect when I'm done with that it will be easy for me to do a really nice and fast backscratch spin. (Yes, newskaker5, you ARE supposed to be on a BO edge!)

So believe me... if there's anyone that's appreciative about joining the Loopy Club now, it's ME!!! I've EARNED IT!!! :twisted:

[newskaker5]

Really? I thought he said I was supposed to be on an inside edge? arr - so confusing - no wonder I cant do it! hahah

[Sessy]

No, I'm told to be on an outside edge. Although apparently, any spin can be done on any edge, some edges are just more difficult... Here in the Netherlands, you don't have to do a backspin if you can spin your forward spin on the outside edge. At least for interzilver test. Dunno about the others.

[xofivebyfive]

I am proud to say that I had my loop at one point in time. A really nice high one, before I hurt my ankle. I think it took me.. a month or two to really land it. I mean, I was landing it with two feet for about a month before I was able to land it correctly. And my backspin was sad really. Only about 2-3 revs before I would wobble over. After about 6 months of working on it, my backspin is much better, and sometimes I can get 10+! :bow:

[Skate@Delaware]

These are such interesting posts!!!! I will agree, not having a backspin doesn't seem to be a hindrance to getting the loop. My coach is "allowing" me to backspin on a flat or the outside edge...works for me! She is more concerned about getting my upper body in the right position (as in-not blocking me from spinning) and getting that free foot in front (I now have nice owies in my new skates as proof).

Sk8pdx, I have a brain fart at times looping-either I bend and spring and forget about my upper body, or something else goes wrong 8O and I fall. I had to promise my girlfriends that I would not work on the loop unless I padded my right hip!!! They think the bruise is nasty (I will agree)!

Been working on the back 3-turn on that foot, after reading DallasSkater's post, and now I will work on keeping that free foot in front (yeah, duh I should have thought about that a bit more...)

waltz-loop still isn't happening-only getting 1/2 way around but it's better because I can remember now to keep that other leg in front...

Having tons of "doh!" moments!!!! Must be spring fever!

[Sessy]

These are such interesting posts!!!! I will agree, not having a backspin doesn't seem to be a hindrance to getting the loop. My coach is "allowing" me to backspin on a flat or the outside edge...works for me! She is more concerned about getting my upper body in the right position (as in-not blocking me from spinning) and getting that free foot in front (I now have nice owies in my new skates as proof).


Such concerned girlfriends you have, Delaware! It took me about a month to get through to my boyfriend that squeezing somebody "in the heat of the moment" is not something you should be doing with somebody who bruised her ribs... And most of the time he just says like, well I could worry about your falls but then you wouldn't change anything about the way you do things anyway, would you? So what's the point.
LOL!

BTW I skate with 2 layers of boot covers and I *still* managed to scratch up my skates practicing keeping the foot front... 8O
(I also keep stabbing myself with the back of the blade into the front of my lower leg just above the skate... yowzers! Mostly on the flip though, not so much on the loop.)

[Isk8NYC]

Been working on the back 3-turn on that foot, after reading DallasSkater's post, and now I will work on keeping that free foot in front.Back double three turns are an exercise for the loop that I use with my skaters. (Also good for breaking the two-foot jump!)

Start with a back outside edge. Check the arms to the side like a loop jump; the free foot is in front. Deepen the knee bend and sharply bring the arms around to the front to start the first turn, lifting and holding the free foot in front. Now, ride the turn, keeping the free foot in front and the arms checked in front, both in your "loop" position. "Check out" the last outside edge as if you were landing a jump or finishing a spin.

[Skate@Delaware]

Such concerned girlfriends you have, Delaware! It took me about a month to get through to my boyfriend that squeezing somebody "in the heat of the moment" is not something you should be doing with somebody who bruised her ribs... And most of the time he just says like, well I could worry about your falls but then you wouldn't change anything about the way you do things anyway, would you? So what's the point.
LOL!

BTW I skate with 2 layers of boot covers and I *still* managed to scratch up my skates practicing keeping the foot front... 8O
(I also keep stabbing myself with the back of the blade into the front of my lower leg just above the skate... yowzers! Mostly on the flip though, not so much on the loop.)
Yeah, they cluck over me....since I am such the 'tomboy'!!! When I fell on my knee, it was close to my other sport injury-an abrasion from shooting from the knee at archery practice. Note to self: next time put something down on the ground AND check for rocks/stubs/sticks/etc.

My boots would not have been saved by bootcovers....they have mortal-looking wounds (deep gouges) I had to cover them with skate tape---my boots have boo-boos!!! let's not even talk about the rips in my pants from the backspin practice....8O

Back double three turns are an exercise for the loop that I use with my skaters. (Also good for breaking the two-foot jump!)

Start with a back outside edge. Check the arms to the side like a loop jump; the free foot is in front. Deepen the knee bend and sharply bring the arms around to the front to start the first turn, lifting and holding the free foot in front. Now, ride the turn, keeping the free foot in front and the arms checked in front, both in your "loop" position. "Check out" the last outside edge as if you were landing a jump or finishing a spin.
Thanks! I will work on this today...maybe I will have another breakthrough!

[miraclegro]

I've been good at the loop for quite some time now, (several years) but yesterday it was as if i had never learned it! I normally can do loop-loop-loop, but i guess some days are just weird. I did notice though, that i was dropping one shoulder or the other and that corrected it, and also i can (on a bad day) tend to curve into it too much. So, when i thought of it being more on a straight line, it was perfect! Some days are just nuts like that!

My backspin is really good, except for one thing: i still don't get on that outside edge as well as i should. I keep trying to get up on my "pinkie" toes but it seems to be my burden to struggle there. It looks good otherwise. I also have had continuous rt. boot/pronation problems, therefore i cannot help but wonder if that is contributing to it. Even with customs, yup.

[Sessy]

Haha Delaware, you're my type of girl hahahah! I have a scar on my knee from back when I was into medieval fairs and had this really neat trick with two huge daggers where I spun them in my hands, moving my arms in the process - sort of like you see in movies. One time, the dagger slipped, went in above my knee and came out under it. They stitched it up and gave me some shots, but since I was running and jumping around a week later, the stitches tore out. :twisted:
Mom used to wish she'd get a boy before I was born. Then, afterwards, as I was growing up, she used to wish I were a boy because boys didn't climb into as high places and didn't do as dangerous things as I did... I even broke my back once hahahahaha. I'm just glad my hobby of shooting firearms never ended the way my dagger enchantment did. :twisted:
Figure skating is just perfect for tomboys though! Look at Slutskaya, look at Harding. :)

[Sessy]

Back double three turns are an exercise for the loop that I use with my skaters. (Also good for breaking the two-foot jump!)

Start with a back outside edge. Check the arms to the side like a loop jump; the free foot is in front. Deepen the knee bend and sharply bring the arms around to the front to start the first turn, lifting and holding the free foot in front. Now, ride the turn, keeping the free foot in front and the arms checked in front, both in your "loop" position. "Check out" the last outside edge as if you were landing a jump or finishing a spin.

One of our trainers made us to backspin-loop. That is, come out of the backspin with a loop... I dunno it seems to be good to cultivate those muscles. :)

[Mrs Redboots]

Husband's backspin is even worse than mine (that means it really has to be bad, as mine is only just over 1 revolution on a good day), but he has a very respectable loop jump. I expect he could do a backspin if he set his mind to it, but we are both rather spin-challenged (me more than him) and he focusses on jumps and steps for his free programme.

[jak0203]

I got my loop this year. It took me a good 6 months. Once I decided that I needed to learn it, though it only took me about a month. I struggled with it for a long time because I couldn't understand the way it worked. Finally, one of the younger skaters convinced me to just try it, and it just started clicking after that.
My backspin usually gets about 5 revolutions. It was getting pretty good, but then I got new blades, and now it's only okay.

[Skate@Delaware]

Well, today was interesting....more of the challenge of trying than actually getting it! My coach, bless her so much, I think is exaserpated with me...

New loop procedure: LFO 3-turn, 1 back crossover, loop, backspin...Note: after attempting the loop, I am to keep my arms and leg IN POSITION!!!! and then do the backspin:roll:

Stay tuned! I do believe this is actually working!

[Sk8pdx]

:o oooo. S @ D this sounds like something fun to try and it has much more variety in it than my plain ol' RFI 3 entrance. Thanks for sharing. :) Hey, you might even share a video if you dare....(or if you are shy, just pm me :P )
~sk8pdx

[Sessy]

Oh I found out what that pre-loop exercise that we had to do is called in English! Apparently, that's a "falling leaf".

[Team Arthritis]

Oh I found out what that pre-loop exercise that we had to do is called in English! Apparently, that's a "falling leaf".

hmmm, I think my coach calls that a Falling Tree" when I do it:roll:
Lyle

[Petlover]

I got my loop consistently a few weeks ago - meaning I can land at least 2 in every session instead of once in a blue moon, this morning I landed 3 out of 4. It's not great, but it's recognizable and not 2-footed. Now that I can land it, it's really fun!

[Skate@Delaware]

I would like to put up a video....I have had MAJOR issues with my camera AND my dvd burner...both at once :x so I have tons of vids to catch up on.
That's why my stretching video has yet to appear (still embarrassed by that but it's not my fault!) technology sucks when it doesn't work :x when you want it to!!!!

There are issues at my rink as far as shooting video during club time, so I will have to wait until daytime public ice. But I do want to shoot a session with my jumps and spins....yeah, as if I really need a reminder of how bad some things have gotten (haven't touched the toe-loop in weeks!)

[Sessy]

hmmm, I think my coach calls that a Falling Tree" when I do it:roll:
Lyle

LOL! Why?! 8O

With me, first time I had to do the falling leaves, well we were practicing them in class and then our teacher said... Okay now turn around and do it the other way. And I did. And she said to me: "I thought you were a normal skater? Your spreidrittberger (falling leaf) is better in the wrong direction you know!" I still don't know what's so great about my cw falling leafs compared to ccw honestly.
I wish I had a good video of a professional doing a falling leaf. Nobody at our rink seems to be able to demonstrate one, only mazurka's, so they just explained to us how to do one, not actually shown. (But for the test you need the falling leaf so that's why they're teaching it, but I think it's a great loop exercise personally).

[DallasSkater]

OMG...I did it! I landed a loop while in lesson today!...did a million under rotated then...boom ...leg crossed, one footed landing and fully around! My coach screamed! very exciting!...left my skates tonight to have the blade changed..we will see what happens to my little loop with a blade change to mess with my head!

[doubletoe]

I wish I had a good video of a professional doing a falling leaf. Nobody at our rink seems to be able to demonstrate one, only mazurka's, so they just explained to us how to do one, not actually shown. (But for the test you need the falling leaf so that's why they're teaching it, but I think it's a great loop exercise personally).

You have probably seen a falling leaf done by some of the world's top ladies but you just didn't realize they were falling leaves because they look like split jumps! 8O (You should have seen my face the moment I finally realized that was the same "falling leaf" I learned in my lesson!) Michelle Kwan always had a split falling leaf in her program, and Caroline Zhang does two in a row in her exhibition program this season. You'll see them right after the 2:30 mark in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7nbNw1aMO4

OMG...I did it! I landed a loop while in lesson today!...did a million under rotated then...boom ...leg crossed, one footed landing and fully around! My coach screamed! very exciting!...left my skates tonight to have the blade changed..we will see what happens to my little loop with a blade change to mess with my head!
DallasSkater, I am so excited for you!!!! Once you've done it, you are guaranteed to keep landing them, and at an increasing rate of consistency! Woo hoo!! :D :bow:

[mikawendy]

OMG...I did it! I landed a loop while in lesson today!...did a million under rotated then...boom ...leg crossed, one footed landing and fully around! My coach screamed! very exciting!...left my skates tonight to have the blade changed..we will see what happens to my little loop with a blade change to mess with my head!

WOOHOOOOO! Congratulations!!

With me, first time I had to do the falling leaves, well we were practicing them in class and then our teacher said... Okay now turn around and do it the other way. And I did. And she said to me: "I thought you were a normal skater? Your spreidrittberger (falling leaf) is better in the wrong direction you know!" I still don't know what's so great about my cw falling leafs compared to ccw honestly.

I wish I had a good video of a professional doing a falling leaf. Nobody at our rink seems to be able to demonstrate one, only mazurka's, so they just explained to us how to do one, not actually shown. (But for the test you need the falling leaf so that's why they're teaching it, but I think it's a great loop exercise personally).

I think the falling leaf can be a good exercise for the takeoff; however, one thing to know is that the torso can prerotate during the falling leaf, whereas in the loop, it's better to keep the free shoulder strongly checked, so in that respect, the two jumps are different.

[Sessy]

Yes but the split jump is like a flip or a toeloop or something with a split right?

Thanks for the video! I was trying to figure out how to effectively jump off the ice on that falling folice whatever, because our competition girls all do the falling leaf but with a picking and without picking I never seem to get any height.
Got to find that programme to rip video's from youtube, I wanna see that in slomo.