USFSA Test vs. Competitive Standards

[WannabeS8r]

Tests passed (if applicable):
No USFSA as of yet, since I seem to like ISI better and I couldn't be competitive in usfs because you basically need an axel for prepre and I don't have one because of pesky ankle problems.


Why does everyone think you need an Axel to pass the USFSA Pre-Pre? Here (http://usfsa.org/About.asp?id=17) is all the info on the levels. I think you can even pass Pre-Juv. freestyle if you have a solid lutz! :P

[xofivebyfive]

Why does everyone think you need an Axel to pass the USFSA Pre-Pre? Here (http://usfsa.org/About.asp?id=17) is all the info on the levels. I think you can even pass Pre-Juv. freestyle if you have a solid lutz! :P

The passing standard is nowhere near the competition standard. To be competitive in PrePre you need all your singles plus your axel. Don't even think about trying to win competitions in the Preliminary level unless you have at least one double. For testing purposes, you don't need a double until Intermediate.

[WannabeS8r]

The passing standard is nowhere near the competition standard. To be competitive in PrePre you need all your singles plus your axel. Don't even think about trying to win competitions in the Preliminary level unless you have at least one double. For testing purposes, you don't need a double until Intermediate.

Oh, I think I misunderstood what you meant. I am aware of all the info you said, I just thought you were talking about testing into the level. However, there's this one girl at my rink who is competing in Pre-Juv. and the hardest jump she can do is an inconsistent Axel.

I passed a preliminary test, but I obviously won't be competing at that level. :roll: lol.

[xofivebyfive]

Oh, I think I misunderstood what you meant. I am aware of all the info you said, I just thought you were talking about testing into the level. However, there's this one girl at my rink who is competing in Pre-Juv. and the hardest jump she can do is an inconsistent Axel.

I passed a preliminary test, but I obviously won't be competing at that level. :roll: lol.

My coach said that as soon as I can land my axel, I can test for PrePre. Otherwise, I'd have to compete way higher than I'm capable of competing. Why did you take your preliminary test if you knew you couldn't compete at that level?

[WannabeS8r]

My coach said that as soon as I can land my axel, I can test for PrePre. Otherwise, I'd have to compete way higher than I'm capable of competing. Why did you take your preliminary test if you knew you couldn't compete at that level?

"While competitive skaters are required to participate in the U.S. testing structure to eventually compete in qualifying competitions, recreational skaters can also opt to take tests in order to continually challenge themselves and their abilities."

I think that fully covered my purpose for taking any usfsa tests. ;) As you know, competing in the usfsa levels is very difficult. I am planning to compete in the recreational Freeskate levels, though.

[xofivebyfive]

"While competitive skaters are required to participate in the U.S. testing structure to eventually compete in qualifying competitions, recreational skaters can also opt to take tests in order to continually challenge themselves and their abilities."

I think that fully covered my purpose for taking any usfsa tests. ;) As you know, competing in the usfsa levels is very difficult. I am planning to compete in the recreational Freeskate levels, though.
Yeah but when you compete in nonqualifying competitions, the standards are still the same. Unless you mean competing in ISI.

[Isk8NYC]

Moved these posts to a new thread.

It is an interesting discussion that others might want to add comments to as well.

[Isk8NYC]

There is an earlier related thread on the USFSA "Competitive Test Track" HERE (http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=22242).

[jskater49]

The passing standard is nowhere near the competition standard. To be competitive in PrePre you need all your singles plus your axel. Don't even think about trying to win competitions in the Preliminary level unless you have at least one double. For testing purposes, you don't need a double until Intermediate.

I think that really depends on where you compete. Many competitions have limited pre-pre events that exclude axels...and at prelim a lot of those doubles are ugly and cheated and if you have good skating skills and good spins and singles you can beat the iffy doubles.

j

[jskater49]

My coach said that as soon as I can land my axel, I can test for PrePre. Otherwise, I'd have to compete way higher than I'm capable of competing. Why did you take your preliminary test if you knew you couldn't compete at that level?

I guess my daughter and her coach had a totally different attitude. She tested pre-pre as soon as she could. One year she competed at basic level five and less than a year later she competed at pre-pre - with no axel and a crappy sit spin, but she wanted to progress through the sport and wanted to compete with her friends, get the expereince, put a lutz in her program (not allowed at most beginner levels) and enjoy the competition experience even though she came in last. And frankly we were kind of frustrated by the POV that kep girls in pre-pre for years collectomh medals -- some of these girls we knew had passed up to their juvenile moves.

My daughter went to Regionals this year at Intermediate and knew darn well she'd probably finish at the bottom because she has no double doubles and she can't spin upsidedown with her leg in her mouth (okay I exaggerate)
I suppose there is a pov that says she had no business competing there, but she doesn't do it to collect medals, she enjoys the experience and her goal is to skate as well as she can and to soak up the experience. Her goal is to get her double toe and to "get my butt kicked next year at Novice rather than Intermediate"

J

[Clarice]

USFSA is introducing Competitive Test Track events now, where skaters would be limited to the elements included for their test level and below. I doubt we'll be seeing them offered in many places this year, but it's an interesting idea. We looked at them for our competition, but in my area there are very few high level skaters anyway, so dividing them up further didn't seem necessary.

[xofivebyfive]

I guess my daughter and her coach had a totally different attitude. She tested pre-pre as soon as she could. One year she competed at basic level five and less than a year later she competed at pre-pre - with no axel and a crappy sit spin, but she wanted to progress through the sport and wanted to compete with her friends, get the expereince, put a lutz in her program (not allowed at most beginner levels) and enjoy the competition experience even though she came in last. And frankly we were kind of frustrated by the POV that kep girls in pre-pre for years collectomh medals -- some of these girls we knew had passed up to their juvenile moves.
J
Well since I have no skating friends, and am 16 and don't really want to compete with 8 year olds, that might be another reason why I have been hesitant to test. Most PrePre girls are very young, and I would feel uncomfortable competing against them, especially if I couldn't do an axel or the hard things that they can do. I don't really care about medals either, as I like to perform and I love to skate just to skate, but coming last behind a bunch of 8 year olds would really lower my self esteem, so I'm waiting until I at least have a shot.

I think that really depends on where you compete. Many competitions have limited pre-pre events that exclude axels...and at prelim a lot of those doubles are ugly and cheated and if you have good skating skills and good spins and singles you can beat the iffy doubles.
j
Yeah, like PrePre A and B, one with and one without an axel allowed. I don't think the comps here have those though, not really sure.

[blue111moon]

In MA and the New England area, open competitions have been offering "Restricted" events for several years. I beklieve that it is these events which led to the Competitive Test track events that are now being proposed.

The Worcester Open (March 30, 31 and April 1) application is posted here:

http://www.geocities.com/skatingclubofworcester/SCOWWorcesterOpen.htm

and contains the rules for Restricted events for all levels including Adults. The postmark deadline is Feb. 24. so there's time if people are interested.

[jskater49]

Hmmm...those restrictions wouldn't help my daughter - she can do a double flip a lot easier than she can a double toe!

j

[WannabeS8r]

I guess my daughter and her coach had a totally different attitude. She tested pre-pre as soon as she could. One year she competed at basic level five and less than a year later she competed at pre-pre - with no axel and a crappy sit spin, but she wanted to progress through the sport and wanted to compete with her friends, get the expereince, put a lutz in her program (not allowed at most beginner levels) and enjoy the competition experience even though she came in last. And frankly we were kind of frustrated by the POV that kep girls in pre-pre for years collectomh medals -- some of these girls we knew had passed up to their juvenile moves.

My daughter went to Regionals this year at Intermediate and knew darn well she'd probably finish at the bottom because she has no double doubles and she can't spin upsidedown with her leg in her mouth (okay I exaggerate)
I suppose there is a pov that says she had no business competing there, but she doesn't do it to collect medals, she enjoys the experience and her goal is to skate as well as she can and to soak up the experience. Her goal is to get her double toe and to "get my butt kicked next year at Novice rather than Intermediate"




That's similar to what my coach encourages me to do. At my age, (12), skating for medals with only a single lutz and a cheated Axel is utterly pointless. For example, I could probably pass Pre-Juv if I work harder, but hey - I doubt I would get anything higher than 10th place in a competition. I don't really care, either. There's a girl at my rink who's 14 and in Pre-Juvenile; she competes and loves it. She's working on her double toe and says competing really encourages her to work harder. :P I also know someone whose hardest jump is a double loop, yet she is competing in Pre-Novice. There are a plenty of other examples. So, I guess that's a good path. (for me, ha.)

[jskater49]

Well since I have no skating friends, and am 16 and don't really want to compete with 8 year olds, that might be another reason why I have been hesitant to test. Most PrePre girls are very young, and I would feel uncomfortable competing against them, especially if I couldn't do an axel or the hard things that they can do. I don't really care about medals either, as I like to perform and I love to skate just to skate, but coming last behind a bunch of 8 year olds would really lower my self esteem, so I'm waiting until I at least have a shot.




It's a personal decision when to test, whether or not to compete. My daughter started skating when she was 11 and she's 16 now and believe me, she understands getting beat by 8 year olds. Where we were there were enough pre-pres, that they did group the older girls together.

The fact, is the younger girls usually do better. They are little jumping beans and it does seem like that gets rewarded more than the more mature and powerful skating skills. And they started young so they are more likely to be able to do those gumby moves the new rules are so fond of:frus:

The good news for you is that you are learning your jumps with the body you will keep so you won't have to relearn your jumps like the little ones do when they start to grow up.:D

I do think you can't let getting beat by young uns put you off...because that's gonna happen. It comes with the package.

J

[WannabeS8r]

It's a personal decision when to test, whether or not to compete. My daughter started skating when she was 11 and she's 16 now and believe me, she understands getting beat by 8 year olds. Where we were there were enough pre-pres, that they did group the older girls together.


Really? I started at 11, too, just like your daughter! (I am 12, now...) And just like Laura (xofivebyfive) I am sort of afraid competing in the official usfsa levels since the little jumping beans frustrate me the most. :frus: I was wondering, what level is your daughter in and what jumps is she working on? Lately I've been questioning myself where in skating can I get to before college...

[Isk8NYC]

One of my (skating) teaching assistants is a high school sophomore and she just passed the Junior tests. (MITF + Freestyle) Try to map out (with your parents and coaches) some reasonable goals that are still challenging and see what you can reach.

[jskater49]

Really? I started at 11, too, just like your daughter! (I am 12, now...) And just like Laura (xofivebyfive) I am sort of afraid competing in the official usfsa levels since the little jumping beans frustrate me the most. :frus: I was wondering, what level is your daughter in and what jumps is she working on? Lately I've been questioning myself where in skating can I get to before college...

My daughter passed her intermediate fs this summer and is going for her third try on Novice moves in two weeks...I think she'll pass--the last retry was kind of a fluke.

She only got serious about skating about two years ago, before that we went to one or two competitions a year and only skated a couple times a week. Now she's still not what some people would call "serious" but she skates 5 1/2 hours a week.

She has a double sal, double loop, double lutz, double flip and is working on a double toe because that's what she needs for Novice. I've seen her land everything but the double toe in a double double (both toes and loops) but it will never happen in competition. I doubt she'll ever get a double axel. And she can't do the gumby spins. She's a very pretty skater - She's on her sivler solo dances as well and wishes she had started dance earlier. She's very good at dance, she can learn a dance and pass it or win at a competition a few weeks later. The fact that she usually medals at dance does make the fact that she is usually last in freestyle a little easier to swallow. There's another girl in the area she competes against..and they always share the podium in dance, and take turns being last in freestyle ;)

Her goal is to test as far as she can get and maybe coach partime in college. I've warned her that when she goes to college I can't afford college and skating

j

[jskater49]

She has a double sal, double loop, double lutz, double flip


j

Important point- she rarely lands all these jumps in competition..she has nerve issues.

j

[xofivebyfive]

That's similar to what my coach encourages me to do. At my age, (12), skating for medals with only a single lutz and a cheated Axel is utterly pointless. For example, I could probably pass Pre-Juv if I work harder, but hey - I doubt I would get anything higher than 10th place in a competition. I don't really care, either. There's a girl at my rink who's 14 and in Pre-Juvenile; she competes and loves it. She's working on her double toe and says competing really encourages her to work harder. :P I also know someone whose hardest jump is a double loop, yet she is competing in Pre-Novice. There are a plenty of other examples. So, I guess that's a good path. (for me, ha.)

12 is not old for starting skating. You're still young so you'll have plenty of time to improve, so I wouldn't worry. :D

It's a personal decision when to test, whether or not to compete. My daughter started skating when she was 11 and she's 16 now and believe me, she understands getting beat by 8 year olds. Where we were there were enough pre-pres, that they did group the older girls together.

The fact, is the younger girls usually do better. They are little jumping beans and it does seem like that gets rewarded more than the more mature and powerful skating skills. And they started young so they are more likely to be able to do those gumby moves the new rules are so fond of:frus:

The good news for you is that you are learning your jumps with the body you will keep so you won't have to relearn your jumps like the little ones do when they start to grow up.:D

I do think you can't let getting beat by young uns put you off...because that's gonna happen. It comes with the package.

J
That's why I'm sticking with ISI for a while, because they divide the groups into ages, so my first competition I was in th 13-15 category, and I feel much more at ease competing against girls my own age and level, since they seemed to have the same problems as I did, plus I had a lot of fun hanging out with them during the competition. I'm happy sticking with the recreational track, and we'll see where I get in the two years I have left before college, which I'll probably have to stop skating during, since I don't think we have the money to do both.

[icedancer2]

I don't know about other areas, but there are lots of teenagers here that compete "Open Juvenile", meaning they are, I believe, 13 and over. I also think that if they need the numbers in any given comp, they will accept pre-Juvenile testers in the Open Juvenile comp.

The discrepencies in the levels is really vexing, I know!

[jskater49]

I don't know about other areas, but there are lots of teenagers here that compete "Open Juvenile", meaning they are, I believe, 13 and over. I also think that if they need the numbers in any given comp, they will accept pre-Juvenile testers in the Open Juvenile comp.

The discrepencies in the levels is really vexing, I know!

If you are 13 or over you have to compete at Open Juv...my daughter actually did well at that level but even then she started getting older and decided to just go for intermediate even if it meant getting beat up in competition. Also many comps have open pre juv levels.

J

[WannabeS8r]

If you are 13 or over you have to compete at Open Juv...my daughter actually did well at that level but even then she started getting older and decided to just go for intermediate even if it meant getting beat up in competition. Also many comps have open pre juv levels.

J

That reminded me of my close friend... she now competes at Intermediate because she just turned 13, and she always gets like a 15th place out of 17 skaters. The hardest jump she does is an inconsistent double lutz. I feel really bad for her, since she was skating for quite a long time - 9 years!

Is there such thing as Open Preliminary? Or what is the age limit in Preliminary competitions?

[xofivebyfive]

That reminded me of my close friend... she now competes at Intermediate because she just turned 13, and she always gets like a 15th place out of 17 skaters. The hardest jump she does is an inconsistent double lutz. I feel really bad for her, since she was skating for quite a long time - 9 years!

Is there such thing as Open Preliminary? Or what is the age limit in Preliminary competitions?
I don't think there are age limits until Juv, which is the first level of qualifying competitions.

[Kim to the Max]

This is a really interesting topic for me...

I skated competitively for 2/3 years and then decided to just skate for fun and test/teach when I was a freshman in high school and school became much more important for me. I stopped competing at the preliminary level where I had a VERY inconsistent axel (which I still cannot land consistently for the life of me...and I'm 26 now!).

But...it appears to me that people are almost intentionally holding skaters back at the lower levels so that they can "master" the more difficult jumps thus making the lower levels more competitive than they were when I skated. I was very competitive at the pre-preliminary level and even somewhat at the preliminary level. It's amazing how much this has changed in the 10 or so years since I was at that level...

This is a bit of a rambling post, but it's got me thinking :)

[jskater49]

This is a really interesting topic for me...



But...it appears to me that people are almost intentionally holding skaters back at the lower levels so that they can "master" the more difficult jumps thus making the lower levels more competitive than they were when I skated. I was very competitive at the pre-preliminary level and even somewhat at the preliminary level. It's amazing how much this has changed in the 10 or so years since I was at that level...

This is a bit of a rambling post, but it's got me thinking :)

I was rather shocked watching an open juv COMPULSARY comp and just about everyone there did a double lutz. When my daughter skated open juv just a year ago she was usually the only one who even tried a double lutz in her freestyle.

But then they'd do their spirals and their edges would be wobbly and scratchy. The basic skating skills is not matching the jumping ability.

J

[jskater49]

That reminded me of my close friend... she now competes at Intermediate because she just turned 13, and she always gets like a 15th place out of 17 skaters. The hardest jump she does is an inconsistent double lutz. I feel really bad for her, since she was skating for quite a long time - 9 years!

Is there such thing as Open Preliminary? Or what is the age limit in Preliminary competitions?

My daughter never feels bad about how she placed, only how she skated. Last fall she skated a clean short program and finished second to last but she was soooo happy. When people asked how she did she answered "I skated a clean program" I really think that's the only way you can approach competition.

The only official open class is open juv...like I said sometimes there would be open prejuv...but usually if there are enough competitors, they will group the older girls together in both pre-pre and prelim.

j

[Mrs Redboots]

But...it appears to me that people are almost intentionally holding skaters back at the lower levels so that they can "master" the more difficult jumps thus making the lower levels more competitive than they were when I skated. I was very competitive at the pre-preliminary level and even somewhat at the preliminary level. It's amazing how much this has changed in the 10 or so years since I was at that level...

You'll be pleased to learn, then, that things are very different for the adults - for Adult Bronze, no axels or double jumps may be attempted, axels are allowed at Silver but still no double jumps, which may only be attempted at Gold or Masters.

[Team Arthritis]

Who was it that started the ### group? Skatermum??? You know what I mean, "Axelless Silver Skaters"!!:halo:
Lyle

[jazzpants]

Who was it that started the ### group? Skatermum??? You know what I mean, "Axelless Silver Skaters"!!:halo:
LyleI think you mean skaternum? And there are LOTS of them out there too, so she has lots of company in the ### group? :lol:

[jskater49]

You'll be pleased to learn, then, that things are very different for the adults - for Adult Bronze, no axels or double jumps may be attempted, axels are allowed at Silver but still no double jumps, which may only be attempted at Gold or Masters.

I was glad to see they recently added a "no lutz" rule to bre-bronze as well. I remember competing against someone who did a lutz loop.

J

[skaternum]

I think you mean skaternum? And there are LOTS of them out there too, so she has lots of company in the ### group? :lol:Yes indeed, and we do just fine in competition, thankyouverymuch. :)

[Kim to the Max]

You'll be pleased to learn, then, that things are very different for the adults - for Adult Bronze, no axels or double jumps may be attempted, axels are allowed at Silver but still no double jumps, which may only be attempted at Gold or Masters.

I am sooooo happy to hear that...I am thinking about getting back into skating (except that I'm having issues with the fit of my skates :?? ) and while I think that I'm going to continue with the standard testing track (I am working on Intermediate moves and my next freestyle test would be pre-juv), if I get back into competitions, I would probably go the adult road...

[jskater49]

I am sooooo happy to hear that...I am thinking about getting back into skating (except that I'm having issues with the fit of my skates :?? ) and while I think that I'm going to continue with the standard testing track (I am working on Intermediate moves and my next freestyle test would be pre-juv), if I get back into competitions, I would probably go the adult road...


If you are over 17 you would have to compete at Novice level.

j