Men and their 4/3's, 4/3/3's, etc. question

[Lark]

You know how you see men in practice doing their quad/triples and quad/triple/triples like they are walking through the park?

Then they either omit them in their programs, or pop them?

Would it not be "easy" to just wait until your music starts, skate right into the 4/3/3 like you are still in practice, THEN add artistry and the rest of your jumps after?

You would not have lost any energy yet, you would still get points for the 4/3/3, and you would be closer to winning.

This was brought up by my watching Evan Lysacek at Nationals on youtube. If he can do it, why not Johnny or anyone else? Yags used to do it and it worked great for him.

Waiting to do your quad as the second or third jump, if you are not used to doing quads, is pure suicide to me.

[DreamSkates]

Easy for me to say, as I don't skate, but from commentators statements - they want to get them over with, or warm up with another jump first. One hopes that jumps are placed where they are most effective in the choreography for artistry's sake.

[mikawendy]

You know how you see men in practice doing their quad/triples and quad/triple/triples like they are walking through the park?

Then they either omit them in their programs, or pop them?

Would it not be "easy" to just wait until your music starts, skate right into the 4/3/3 like you are still in practice, THEN add artistry and the rest of your jumps after?

You would not have lost any energy yet, you would still get points for the 4/3/3, and you would be closer to winning.

Well, but I think some skaters psychologically skate differently during their programs than during practice, so even putting it first might not pan out.

I think a lot of time it's also a matter of playing it safe plus trying to get more points for something else under CoP, especially if the skater is consistently underrotating the jump and/or falling on it or two-footing it. (Although sometimes it mathematically works out better for the quad to be attempted, even if it is not landed cleanly, e.g., Jeff Buttle at 2006 Olys.)

[Lark]

(Although sometimes it mathematically works out better for the quad to be attempted, even if it is not landed cleanly, e.g., Jeff Buttle at 2006 Olys.)

How many points DID Buttle end up getting for that quad attempt?

You would think more guys would try it, especially if you get some points for a fall. You get kudos for trying, and you might just hit it eventually.:D

[frbskate63]

If a skater is confident of getting the rotation, then a quad is worth including even if it's not clean, as even with a -3 grade of execution, it's still worth more than the equivalent triple. But if it's underrotated, it will get called as a triple, and almost certainly given a low grade of execution, so the skater is better off doing a good clean triple instead. So for skaters who don't consistently make the rotation, it's probably not worth the risk.

Fiona

[Lark]

The problem is that without a quad, the odds of medaling are really dwindling fast.

It is not like all the guys doing quads are like Tim Goebel; 3 quads and no artistry.

People like Takahashi, Joubert, Lysacek, Lambiel and Plushenko (he has not retired yet), are very, very good at presentation, and all have a very good grasp on at least 1 quad (Joubert has done 3 in a LP, but I think that was more of a fluke).

If you are at Worlds, and those guys skate clean, you are not going to make Top 5, without a quad. Simple. So they need to at least TRY a quad.

I just really dread the thought of Johnny Weir never medaling at Worlds. :??

[frbskate63]

The problem is that without a quad, the odds of medaling are really dwindling fast.:??

But if anything, the number of quads seems to be going down. And for the last two years, we've had people on the podium who didn't land quads, which I don't think was happening five years ago.

I just really dread the thought of Johnny Weir never medaling at Worlds. :??

Yes, that possibility is depressing me too. But his quad has counted the couple of times that he's tried it, and because he's messed up elsewhere, it hasn't helped. He needs to rediscover some consistency more than he needs the quad.

Fiona

[Lark]

But if anything, the number of quads seems to be going down. And for the last two years, we've had people on the podium who didn't land quads, which I don't think was happening five years ago.


We have had people on the Worlds podium who did not LAND quads, but they tried them.

As for that matter, in the last 5 years, how many people medaled at Worlds without a quad or a quad attempt? Maybe Buttle in 2006 (?) and Lysacek in 2005.

However, that does not take into account that the guys WITH quads did not skate well.

Buttle ONLY medaled at the Olympics because he rotated the quad. Without trying it, I think Evan would have medaled. And that was because Joubert was not good, and Oda was not there.

But I stand by my statement that with the current field skating clean, no one without a quad will medal. Period. :giveup:

[Sessy]

Also, aren't jumps in the second half of your long programme worth more points than in the first half?