Help with Flip

[xofivebyfive]

Man I'm posting a lot of threads this week. So, apparently I'm jumping around and not up, and that's not good. So, I have a couple of questions. Do you jump entirely off of the right toepick, or do you use both feet? And, how can I focus on jumping up, instead of trying to jump around to get the rotation? I used to really like this jump. That's what tendonitis will do for you.

[Sonic]

I feel for you - both Flip and tendonitis in my right foot are the bane of my life at the moment!

Yes, you jump off your right toe pick. Well, in fact you kinda hop off your right toe pick. Three turn/mohawk, reach back with the right foot, put the pick in and kinda pull yourselve up onto the pick and jump.

See, I know what to do in theory, but CAN I do it in practise? Can I heck!:frus:

S xxx

[NickiT]

I've been landing my flip for years, but I always caught just a fraction of my blade on the ice as I picked. I've been working really hard at jumping right off the toe in recent months though, thus leaving nothing but a neat little pick mark on the ice, and finally I've got it. It sure makes for a better jump! My advice is to really take your time and not rush it. Check the three turn and really reach back with the picking foot. As with most things in skating it is a feeling, and it's not really that easy to describe. Good luck with perfecting your flip!

Nicki

[doubletoe]

Get low on the knee, keep your back arched and rigid, and reach back with a straight leg and pointed toe. Keeping the toe straight down and low to the ice, dig it in firmly (but don't bang it) and use it to pull yourself back and up. The faster you're going, the farther back you'll have to reach. The idea is to pull yourself back with the pick so that your skating foot slides back and catches up to the picking foot as you leave the ice. You think of taking off with the picking toe, but you also get power from having the other foot under you by the time you leave the ice.

[Isk8NYC]

I teach all toe jumps with:

Pick
Pick in straight back with toe pointed down, as Doubletoe said.
Check your arms (CCW: Left in front, right over picking foot)

Pull
Draw your feet together with knees bent.
Hold the checked arms and straighten/arch your back.

Pop
Shift weight to take off from the toepick, lift your free leg.

Punch
(CCW) Right arm "punches" around to meet the Left arm in front.
Close your legs and keep the free foot in front. Point the landing toe downward, "reaching" for the landing.

It is different from the half-flip because of the arms - they really have to "punch" around and come close to the body to rotate the full way. After a while you find that the half-flip only needs the feet to turn. ;)


EXERCISE: Practice just the take off, but don't turn the jump until you're comfortable. Bring the arms together in the air (no punch) and do a one-foot landing on your picking foot. This helps with learning the rhythm and weight shifts.

It seems to be that one of the last things my students learn is to take off and hold the in-air position without breaking at the waist. They'll have everything else, be totally frustrated at not landing it, then suddenly realize what I mean, straighten up and tada! they land the bugger. (In one case, I was so frustrated at being told "I am straight," I just recorded the next attempt. I let the pictures prove my point.)

[skatingdoris]

I feel for you - both Flip and tendonitis in my right foot are the bane of my life at the moment!
S xxx

Ha! so i'm not the only one, I had really painfull tendonitis in january from practicing both my flip and lutz and was told not to skate for a few weeks and take it easy - very depressing!

Result - first session back on the ice, flip and lutz gone away, tendonitis as bad as ever!! ruddy typical :frus: :frus:

It seems to have settled down now although I do get the occaisional twinge when practicing but after the break my coach noted that alot of the time I was picking too hard into the ice with a 'floppy' leg (i.e the muscles were not engaged) and then engaging them after my toe pick was in, in order to jump off - if this makes sense.

so now I really have to think about engaging all the leg muscles first then tapping in the toe pick with a 'tensed' leg. not only has this helped my jump massively but it seems to prevent the injury to the tendons happening in the first place. :D

[Sonic]

so now I really have to think about engaging all the leg muscles first then tapping in the toe pick with a 'tensed' leg. not only has this helped my jump massively but it seems to prevent the injury to the tendons happening in the first place. :D

That gives hope for us all lol! The stupid thing is, I read a helpful thread on hear a week ago, got to the rink that evening to put the new ideas in practise and wham! finally had a flip - perfectly picked off the toe, fully rotated and with some height. Okay so my position in the air was ugly but hey, it was a huge improvement.

Stepped back on the next day - and it had completely gone again. Any poor soul that's suffered my whinging (not to mention attempts at the darn thing) knows Flip has become a swear word with me!

S xxx

[Tiggerwoos]

Gonna give these tips a go tomorrow, so will be interested to see how I get on and whether I manage to increase my minute 2 cms (or so it seems) off the ice!:lol:

[Team Arthritis]

Thanks Isk8NYC! Your tips really helped this AM. To keep from breaking at the waist I started doing 1/4 Flips - thinking of just pick pull and skip on the picking foot with the free knee UP. I really wasn't jumping up but they kept actualy flowing around and out as long as I reached and pullllled onto the pick while keeping the free knee up. Later I realised that I still wasn't doing anything at all with the arms and kept them nicely checked back all the way around, I think that helped too.:lol: Now the knee aches again, sigh.:roll:
thanks for the pointers http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/sportlich/a020.gif
Lyle

[Sessy]

I sprained my anckle 2,5 weeks ago (landing leg, so picking leg on the flip) and started jumping off my non-picking leg to spare my anckle, subconsciously. Boy did that mess up my flip.

I'm guessing tendonitis will really mess it up too.


I just focus on doing the approach of the flip, I glide on my left foot inside edge (pretty flat) with my right arm behind and left arm front and right foot free in front of me, then tap the ice on the 3 turn with the free foot pushing with it, transferring the foot to the back as I do the 3 turn, and my arms stay to the right - one arm is a bit to the right of in front of me, the other is entirely to the right. I keep the picking foot low and straight, never swinging it up, then pick, turn, land. As I take off I imagine trying to do a loop behind the flip, so that I get my weight over my landing foot. And my arms are to the right at take off basically, I don't pre-rotate like on the toeloop.
Works, most of the time :)

Can't do it from a mohawk though to save my life!