4CC - Men's Freeskate **SPOILERS**

[Tennisany1]

This post contains spoilers....















Freeskate scores:
1 Evan LYSACEK USA 159.23 84.43 74.80 7.39 7.11 7.68 7.54 7.68 0.00 #19
2 Jeffrey BUTTLE CAN 146.24 71.94 74.30 7.50 7.29 7.29 7.57 7.50 0.00 #17
3 Christopher MABEE CAN 129.83 68.01 61.82 6.29 5.75 6.29 6.29 6.29 0.00 #12
4 Jeremy ABBOTT USA 128.88 61.60 67.28 6.86 6.50 6.71 6.75 6.82 0.00 #16
5 Ryan BRADLEY USA 127.46 65.26 63.20 6.43 6.07 6.39 6.32 6.39 1.00 #21
6 Kensuke NAKANIWA JPN 121.69 66.47 55.22 5.82 5.29 5.57 5.43 5.50 0.00 #13
7 Jialiang WU CHN 121.17 65.17 56.00 5.89 5.43 5.64 5.61 5.43 0.00 #20
8 Noriyuki KANZAKI JPN 119.24 61.54 58.70 5.89 5.57 5.93 5.96 6.00 1.00 #15
9 Ming XU CHN 112.71 58.99 53.72 5.61 5.18 5.39 5.36 5.32 0.00 #14
10 Emanuel SANDHU CAN 108.69 45.61 64.08 6.54 6.29 6.21 6.54 6.46 1.00 #18
11 Zhixue YANG CHN 101.59 58.59 44.00 4.71 4.18 4.50 4.36 4.25 1.00 #10
12 Yasuharu NANRI JPN 98.95 50.61 51.34 5.46 4.93 5.00 5.21 5.07 3.00 #11
13 Sean CARLOW AUS 84.39 40.83 45.56 4.57 4.32 4.57 4.64 4.68 2.00 #7
14 Joel WATSON NZL 71.48 38.40 33.08 3.57 3.07 3.25 3.36 3.29 0.00 #9
15 Tristan THODE NZL 67.51 33.15 34.36 3.75 3.32 3.36 3.43 3.32 0.00 #8
16 Luis HERNANDEZ MEX 66.59 30.01 37.58 3.96 3.50 3.79 3.75 3.79 1.00 #5
17 Mathieu WILSON NZL 66.15 31.79 34.36 3.57 3.29 3.43 3.46 3.43 0.00 #4
18 Nicholas FERNANDEZ AUS 64.36 26.58 37.78 3.93 3.57 3.82 3.82 3.75 0.00 #6
19 Dean TIMMINS AUS 62.18 30.04 34.14 3.64 3.11 3.39 3.50 3.43 2.00 #3
20 Justin PIETERSEN RSA 59.23 30.21 31.02 3.32 2.93 3.04 3.11 3.11 2.00 #1
21 Adrian ALVARADO MEX 55.82 25.48 31.34 3.14 2.96 3.25 3.25 3.07 1.00 #2


Final Placements:

1 Evan LYSACEK USA 226.27 4 1
2 Jeffrey BUTTLE CAN 223.96 1 2
3 Jeremy ABBOTT USA 203.22 2 4
4 Ryan BRADLEY USA 196.29 3 5
5 Christopher MABEE CAN 188.41 8 3
6 Jialiang WU CHN 184.69 6 7
7 Noriyuki KANZAKI JPN 181.58 7 8
8 Kensuke NAKANIWA JPN 177.03 9 6
9 Emanuel SANDHU CAN 173.67 5 10
10 Ming XU CHN 167.71 10 9
11 Zhixue YANG CHN 154.57 12 11
12 Yasuharu NANRI JPN 153.11 11 12
13 Sean CARLOW AUS 127.08 13 13
14 Joel WATSON NZL 112.04 14 14
15 Tristan THODE NZL 106.61 15 15
16 Nicholas FERNANDEZ AUS 103.43 16 18
17 Luis HERNANDEZ MEX 101.35 19 16
18 Mathieu WILSON NZL 94.59 21 17
19 Justin PIETERSEN RSA 94.12 18 20
20 Dean TIMMINS AUS 93.74 20 19
21 Adrian ALVARADO MEX 91.26 17 21

[Marine63]

Why is that the judges continually uphold Jeffrey Buttle despite the fact he can't do a triple axel and has very low jumps? I mean footwork and artistry can only carry you so far. I'm sick to death of him walking off with silver medals at international competitions when he has so-so performances. It's getting tiresome! Yes, he has some nice transitions and footwork, but at the end of the day the guy has jumps that are at a junior level. Give me a break.

[4rkidz]

Give the guy a break.. he's been off the whole season.. he landed his triple axels in warm ups and practice and nationals.. and the rest of his skating is on a different planet to everyone else - have you ever watched him live? He doesn't get held up, his footwork alone couldn't even be done by most of the top male skaters... even the jumps he does do are certainly not junior level, he enters and exits his jumps with the same speed with a clean edge.. read the pdf files on the Judges scores it might help you understand a little better...

[Marine63]

Give the guy a break.. he's been off the whole season.. he landed his triple axels in warm ups and practice and nationals.. and the rest of his skating is on a different planet to everyone else - have you ever watched him live? He doesn't get held up, his footwork alone couldn't even be done by most of the top male skaters... even the jumps he does do are certainly not junior level, he enters and exits his jumps with the same speed with a clean edge.. read the pdf files on the Judges scores it might help you understand a little better...

I've been watching figure skating longer than you've probably been alive, so I don't need to look at the judges marks. He has a reputation for good footwork and artistry, so matter how he jumps he still gets good marks. I just think that the missed jumps and bad landings should effect the overall artistry score. It's not a pleasing performance if they miss, so many jumps.:??

[MQSeries]

Have you actually seen Jeff's 4CC free skate performance? How about enlighten the rest of us on which jumps he did and which jumps he missed?

[Oracle]

I read that he missed both triple axles & had no quad.

[thumbyskates]

Unfortunately/Fortunately (whichever way you look at it), figure skating has changed with the new system. Completing spins and footwork well is equivilent to landing the big triples and quads...Jeff figured out how to work the system to his advantage and others should follow suite.

Just because you can't do the jumps doesn't mean you can't medal anymore. Times have changed!

[Oracle]

Times have changed & times keep changing. Referring to an article in the August '06 IFS magazine one change that is expected to come out of the June '07 congress is that more points will be given for the difficult jumps. "Expected changes include more points for the big tricks & fewer elements in in ice dance & free skating programs." So the Buttles of figure skating will have to land their triple axles, at least.

[axis]

I've been watching figure skating longer than you've probably been alive, so I don't need to look at the judges marks. He has a reputation for good footwork and artistry, so matter how he jumps he still gets good marks. I just think that the missed jumps and bad landings should effect the overall artistry score. It's not a pleasing performance if they miss, so many jumps.:??

I don't care how long you've been watching skating, the system isn't supposed to be just about jumps. Furthermore, I watched both the U.S. and Canadian Championships live this season, and can tell you that the component scores are VERY affected by how the jumps go. Lysacek's components, besides Performance/Execution, are not even in Buttle's league. But somehow they were higher than Buttle's at 4CC. The judges are still able to control(to some degree) the outcomes of the events via the component scores. Look at how good Joubert's component scores have been all season. No one is going to tell me that he has first-class transitions, choreography, or interpretation. At least not anyone who knows anything about the new system. And before you go bashing Jeff Buttle's jumping, I would take a second look at Lysacek's... That triple axel turns half a rotation before he even leaves the ice. He's lucky that the Technical Specialists aren't downgrading those things.

[skatingsis]

I agree. Joubert is a great jumper but his programs are hollow. when you watch Jeff you are pulled in to a perfomance . I also agree the component score were inflated for Evan, however he did a good technical job.

[Alexa]

I have yet to be pulled into any Buttle performance, and it is not because I prefer skaters that only have the jumps. His skating just does nothing for me.

I do have to agree with the original poster, though, that you should be able to complete the jumps in order to be medaling that high. If you miss two triple axels, or whatever it was he missed, then he is missing some important elements.

[MQSeries]

I saw ESPN 4CC's coverage tonight. There's no question that Jeff's performance deserved the silver medal at this competition.

[Lark]

Okay, I am confused.

I am sooo happy that Evan won, honestly, I like him and think he is a fantastic skater.

How, though, did he get that high of a score with a cheated quad and a hand down on his 3Axel, I believe?

And if anyone wants to argue his quad being cheated, go back to your tapes, DVR or youtube. The landing was cheated by half a rotation, easily.

If I am reading this correctly, Evan got a 159.23 for his free skate.

If you compare it, which I know comparing is not perfect, but Plushenko got a 167.67 for his free skate at the Torino Olympics.

How in Heavens name did Evan come close??? Evan is in no way even close to Plushenko in any way, shape or form in my opinion, so the scores should not be in the same ballpark!

I feel like Miss Jay on Americas Next Top Model, where all the judges praise a particular model, and Miss Jay is all like "What do you people see?"!

Please, someone point out to me what I am missing. To me, Evan skates like a pre-CoP skater, which is cool to watch, but I do not understand the scoring.

[Schmeck]

8+ points is a big difference in the freeskate - that's a jump or even a medium combo.

[Isk8NYC]

What happened to Sandhu's skate during the short program? I saw a picture of him on SLAM! Sports (http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Gallery/FigureSkating/2007/02/08/3560149-ap.html#top) where he had his foot up on the boards, showing the judges something on his boot.

The photo brought back memories of Tanya Harding. (Where's my foam crowbar?)

[Oracle]

After reading about how wonderful Buttle's free skate is I was disappointed. I've been following figure skating since the late 1960's & have witnessed many changes & like it or not, today to be competitive in the mens ranks you need at least 1 solid triple axle. Buttle is no John Curry & I don't believe he could beat former Canadian champs, Brian Orser or Elvis Stojko, when they were at their peaks. Orser, you will remember, was very stylish, very dancey & could land triple axles.

[MQSeries]

Orser, you will remember, was very stylish, very dancey & could land triple axles.

I have to disagree with you about Orser being "very stylish, very dancey". I've always hated the choreographies that Uzchi Kescler (sp?) gave Orser during his eligible days. It was alwasy frenetic, throwing in body movements just for the sake of matching the beat of the music and not because they meant anything.


Buttle's free at 4CC didn't totally win me over, but I appreciated all the intricaties between the jumps. I never felt like there were superflous arms or body movements with Jeff's skating.

[axis]

I'm not a Jeff Buttle fan, but if you were to closely watch the programs of these three men, ignoring the jumps, you might be stupefied. I for one don't think that the tough jumps are being given enough credit. However, the rules are what they are, and as such I disagree with how some judges have let jumping ability interfere with Program Component scoring. Have a really good look.... Start with counting cross-overs. Then take into consideration how much time the skaters are posing in the middle of the programs. Then notice how much of the body is really being used in the choreography - Is it mainly just the arms? Oh, dont forget about the intricacies of the connecting steps. Let me know what you think.

[Lark]

...one change that is expected to come out of the June '07 congress is that more points will be given for the difficult jumps.

It is scary to think that poor Weir and Buttle may never be seen again if it becomes a "battle of the big jumps"!

Who on the scene now can do consistant quads? Lambiel, Joubert, Takahashi, Oda, Preaubert? It is too early to see if Lysacek can on a regular basis, since the quads I have seen him land were cheated.

Poor Weir and Buttle are going to have to be content on occasionally showing up on a rare SP braodcast, then have their LP be seen on youtube. 8O

[dbny]

if you were to closely watch the programs of these three men, ignoring the jumps, you might be stupefied. I for one don't think that the tough jumps are being given enough credit. However, the rules are what they are, and as such I disagree with how some judges have let jumping ability interfere with Program Component scoring. Have a really good look.... Start with counting cross-overs. Then take into consideration how much time the skaters are posing in the middle of the programs. Then notice how much of the body is really being used in the choreography - Is it mainly just the arms? Oh, dont forget about the intricacies of the connecting steps. Let me know what you think.

ITA. Anytime I see competitors at this level doing anything I can do in between the jumps, I lose interest. I want to see level 3 and 4 connecting moves, which is what Buttle delivers, and Lysacek lacks.

[icedancer2]

Poor Weir and Buttle are going to have to be content on occasionally showing up on a rare SP braodcast, then have their LP be seen on youtube. 8O

Can you clarify what you mean by this statement?

At least here in the US, we usually see all of the American and popular Canadian skaters in a competition regardless of their ranking in any particular competition. I think this is how they build interest in the sport and competition.

I am of two minds about the jumps issue. While I love to see big, spectacular, well-rotated, clean jumps, I like the artistry, too -- I guess this is why I like both competitive and professional (show) skating -- some people seem to like one of the other, but I think both types of skating are great... of course, there is always that thing about having great jumps and great artistry making the complete skater, etc.

What I noticed this time about both Buttle and Chriss Mabee was their arms, which they seem to use much as Kurt Browning uses his arms -- makes me wonder if there is something in the Canadian training about the use of arms (very relaxed but purposeful arms) that we don't see too often in US skaters, although I like Johnny's arms pretty well, also...

Just some random thoughts... looking forward to Worlds. HOpefully it won't be a jumpfest. I was impressed by Joubert's progress this season (and yup, I liked those three quads...)

[Lark]

Can you clarify what you mean by this statement?



If Buttle doesn't make it to the final 6, in the US at least, we will never see him again. I have no doubt that he will occasionally make Top 3 in the SP since it is not so much about the quantity of jumps.

I am sure Johnny will be shown in the US regardless. But neither of them will medal again without the big jumps. Especially if the quads are given some type of huge score, and there are only 5 men doing them with any consistancy.

You also have to realize that there will be Men coming around in the next couple of years who want to win. And who have the attack to win.

[Lark]

At least here in the US, we usually see all of the American and popular Canadian skaters in a competition regardless of their ranking in any particular competition.

And I do not agree with this statement.

I live in the US, and I have all of the non-movie cable channels.

I have seen many broadcasts where Sandhu performed and was not shown. I have also seen times when Americans were not shown (Savoie, for instance).

And with skating becoming so rare on regular television, I am expecting to not see a lot more skaters, regardless if they are Canadian, American, or Japanese.

And I am not sure I see any network or cable channel really interested in "building the sport" as much as they are interested in showing pairs skaters getting dropped or kicked in the face. Or showing Evans woman watch him skate. Tabloid stuff.

[icedancer2]

While it's true that many skaters have been "chacked" as it were, from any individual televised competition, it seems to me they are always looking for new skaters to highlight, like showing the Junior Ladies champ and silver medalist and the Novice Ladies champion on the Nationals exhibition broadcast. Some may say that Inoe and Baldwin got "chacked" in that show, but I think that sometimes these decisions get made pretty quickly and who knows why certain things aren't shown?

And who knows what's going to come to televised skating at all? There is of course a lot of speculation but I am quite sure that the way we watch TV in general now is going to be very very different in 10 years and if the way we watch skating is different, then so be it I guess.