More Adult Pre-Bronze Moves Questions [Archive]

sunjoy

02-08-2007, 05:22 AM

Pattern 1 (stroking)
What do you do between the first, CCW, lap and the second, CW, one? T-stop, stroke to the other side of the rink, T-stop?

Pattern 4, Waltz 8
Just to be sure: you do TWO eights right? IOW the whole pattern gets done twice.

Pattern 5 Forward 3-turn

1) The pattern states 4-6 sets of 3-turn lobes will be skated depdending on the size of the arena.

Is this 4-6 per *side* (which would be a lot) or overall? The USFSA video shows only one side, and the skater is shown doing two sets.

2) Along a given side, do you have to finish on an LFI after a cross, or is it OK to finish on the three-turn side of the pattern if you reach the end of the ice?

3) what is a decent end pattern to do between the two sides? I'm thinking something like the Bronze pattern 3 end pattern (Forward power 3s) would work since you have to switch feet from side to side in that also.

I'm testing on Valentines Day (appropriate, as it's more or less my 1 year skating aniversary). I should know this stuff, but my coach seems pretty inexperienced about the testing procedure. I've watched the PSA moves vids, but they don't help with these questions.

One last Q: what should a man wear to the test? Would form-fitting sweatpants with a small text College Logo on them be appropriate? On top a plain dark long-sleeved T.

Thanks.

Thin-Ice

02-08-2007, 05:44 AM

Pattern 1 (stroking)
What do you do between the first, CCW, lap and the second, CW, one? T-stop, stroke to the other side of the rink, T-stop?
That would be just fine... on this test, it's preferable not to stop by running into the wall. :lol: T-stop, hockey stop or even two-footed snowplow all work and I've seen all of these (including running into the wall) on passing tests.
[B]Pattern 4, Waltz 8
Just to be sure: you do TWO eights right? IOW the whole pattern gets done twice.
Yes, you do one waltz eight on your right side, then one on your left side, then another on your right, then another on your left, then push out and stop.
Pattern 5 Forward 3-turn
1) The pattern states 4-6 sets of 3-turn lobes will be skated depdending on the size of the arena. Is this 4-6 per *side* (which would be a lot) or overall? The USFSA video shows only one side, and the skater is shown doing two sets.

2) Along a given side, do you have to finish on an LFI after a cross, or is it OK to finish on the three-turn side of the pattern if you reach the end of the ice?

3) what is a decent end pattern to do between the two sides? I'm thinking something like the Bronze pattern 3 end pattern (Forward power 3s) would work since you have to switch feet from side to side in that also.

Each lobe is one side (right or left of the long axis), so 4-6 lobes would 2 or 3 patterns. Yes, on each side you must finish the entire pattern.. so if you can't fit in a complete pattern on one side, just do one fewer. You should still try to fill up the rink though.. don't start at the blue line and skate to the next blue line. As for the end pattern, the end pattern is "optional" -- so if the end pattern from the forward pattern 3s works for you, use it. Some people just stroke across, some people just glide, some glide on one foot in a pretty position. Usually the judges aren't looking at exactly what you are doing with your feet at that point, they're making comments on how you did the side you just completed.

One last Q: what should a man wear to the test? Would form-fitting sweatpants with a small text College Logo on them be appropriate? On top a plain dark long-sleeved T.]

Wear something you are comfortable in, that keeps you warm enough to skate well and that still allows the judges to see your bodylines. They will want to see if you have your legs extended or knees bent, and they want to see how hunched (or not!) your shoulders are as you skate. Make sure whatever you wear is clean, neat and doesn't have holes in it. This is in essence a performance. You are going to show them what you CAN do. I don't know how small the logo is you plan to wear on the pants... but generally speaking, I have not seen logos on test wear. You might want to ask your test chair what is appropriate for your rink, since s/he would be more familiar with how things are done at your test sessions.

Remember to breath, make eye contact with the judges before you start each element, and enjoy the experience. Good luck!

skaternum

02-08-2007, 09:14 AM

You REALLY need to get a lesson with a coach who is familiar with MITF testing!! You might eek by on the pre-bronze, but don't waste your money having a clueless coach prepare you for other tests.

Isk8NYC

02-08-2007, 09:23 AM

If the logo's distracting, just put a piece of black tape or a label over it, so no one can see it.

You (and perhaps your coach) should really go watch a few MITF test sessions, even if they're at other rinks. I started doing this recently and it's been eye-opening in terms of procedure. It wouldn't hurt to ask other coaches who've had students test pre-bronze MITF, either.

I have my first student testing Pre-Prel MITF next month and I feel much more confident about what to expect and how to prepare her for the test.

Adult Bronze MITF Pattern 5 - Forward 3-turn Pattern (http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/adultvideos/Moves%20Diagrams/PreBronze%205.pdf)
Forward Three-turn pattern: On the first length of the arena, the skater will perform RFI to LFO three turns followed by a cross over and a step forward. For the second length of the arena, the skater will perform LFI to RFO three-turns followed by a cross over then a step forward. Four to six sets of three-turn lobes will be skated depending on the size of the arena. The end sequence and introductory steps are optional. Primary focus: Edge qualityThe USFSA diagram has only one-and-a-half SETS of LOBES drawn, but you have to do 4 to 6 SETS down each side.

(Whereas other tests have the entire pattern drawn out, both sides, with the transition comments.)

There are two "lobes" to each set - the FI3 lobe and the BIxo lobe.

First side: Four to six RFI... sets.

Transition: (I can't see using the backward power push if you're ending the last lobe on a forward edge.)

Finish the last lobe of the first half, which leaves you on a LFI edge.
Push onto a RFI edge, then do forward crossovers or strong pushes across to the other side.
You'll need to make a U-Turn on a RFI edge to get onto the correct starting axis for the LFI3.

Second side: Four to six LFI... sets.

End Sequence: End last lobe of final set with a RFI edge, then step out with forward crossovers and t-stop.

<ETA: Das_mondlicht had a similar thread about the APBM F3 Pattern (http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=22182). (She passed!) Maybe it will help you? >

Good luck on your test.

sunjoy

02-08-2007, 12:51 PM

You might want to ask your test chair what is appropriate for your rink, since s/he would be more familiar with how things are done at your test sessions.

Remember to breath, make eye contact with the judges before you start each element, and enjoy the experience. Good luck!Yes, I asked at the rink, and they seem to be rather formal. "Wear your program apparel... you don't have a program? Well, I'd suggest black slacks and a shirt. As long as it's figure-skating appropriate". Good thing I thought to ask.

Remembering to enjoy the experience will be important.

You REALLY need to get a lesson with a coach who is familiar with MITF testing!! You might eek by on the pre-bronze, but don't waste your money having a clueless coach prepare you for other tests.

I agree with you, and in fact will try to book a lesson this weekend at the rink I'll be testing at. Things started going downhill with my coach when I started preparing for the moves test. At first I thought she was unfamiliar with adult track, no big deal, so I just told her to treat it as pre-pre as much as possible,
but she doesn't seem to have experience with that either. She can *teach*, that's not the problem, it's just that besides her own tests, she doesn't seem to have recent experience with students testing.

Adult Bronze MITF Pattern 5 - Forward 3-turn Pattern (http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/adultvideos/Moves%20Diagrams/PreBronze%205.pdf)
The USFSA diagram has only one-and-a-half SETS of LOBES drawn, but you have to do 4 to 6 SETS down each side.

<ETA: Das_mondlicht had a similar thread about the APBM F3 Pattern (http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=22182). (She passed!) Maybe it will help you? >

Good luck on your test.

Thanks. I'd like to say I won't need it, but I will. Luck will mean doing everything consistently without making the ocassional brain-fart mistakes that happens in practice. I suppose I'll be asked to re-skate if I do, and I'll be ok the second time. Back inside edges is the pattern that I'll need luck on. Everything else was getting pretty consistent this morning.

phoenix

02-08-2007, 02:12 PM

TaBalie

02-08-2007, 02:26 PM

Everyone has given great advice so far... I did want to say that I think you should discuss your testing goals with your coach, and perhaps if she/he isn't knowledgeable about Adult tests, ask if you could have a session with a coach that is experienced with Adult MITF prior to your test.

Good luck!!!

mikawendy

02-08-2007, 03:29 PM

nja

02-08-2007, 06:20 PM

You should also consider purchasing a USFSA rule book, especially if you plan to continue to test. The rule book is updated every year and is your best resource as to what elements are required, how many patterns, etc.

We recently had an Adult Pre-Bronze test on our test session where the coach did not know the current patterns. The lady came to the test having practiced one element that wasn't part of the test and not having an element that is required (the waltz 8). Naturally the coach wasn't present. Obviously neither one of them had checked on the current test patterns.

IMHO it is important that adult students take an active role in familiarizing themselves with their test requirements. I have found that some coaches just aren't as familiar with the adult tests and don't always take the time to keep current.

jazzpants

02-08-2007, 09:03 PM

You REALLY need to get a lesson with a coach who is familiar with MITF testing!! You might eek by on the pre-bronze, but don't waste your money having a clueless coach prepare you for other tests.
Ummm... (You've heard this story before, skaternum, but for those who haven't....)

When I went to take my Pre-Bronze FS test, I was quite worried about my very first USFSA test. My primary coach seemed quite calm and where this dialog went thru JUST before I was to go on the ice for my warm-up.

Me: "Ah, you probably had a lot of students testing in the past and you're used to this." :P
Primary coach: "Ummmm... actually I've had relatively little experience with students testing."
Me: "How many students so far?" *stern look*
Coach: "Ummm... you're my first student testing??? :halo: "
Me: "Well, you've pick a FINE TIME to tell me I'm your first student that you've put out on the ice!!!" 8O :x (Needless to say, I was QUITE annoyed...)
Coach: "You're gonna do JUST FINE!!! Don't worry about it! :lol: " (as he's laughing about this whole thing like you're being silly thinking this is a big deal...)

Okay, so I've passed that test and he's no longer a test coach virgin! :twisted: :P :lol:

Mrs Redboots

02-09-2007, 10:49 AM

Black long sleeved t-shirt is fine. I'd second the thought that this is a performance & it's important to look very put-together. If you have anything else as an alternative to the sweat pants, I'd suggest going with that. A pair of yoga pants would be fine....actually I'd prefer to even see a pair of black wind pants or warmups than sweats. It just looks nicer.

Good luck w/ your test!!I asked my coach what was worn when people were just doing Moves tests, and he said, "Oh, you look fine as you are!" Thank you - I was wearing sweats and a fleece jersey! He did say the important thing is to be warm, though.

If I were taking a free skating or dance test other than moves, no problem - I'd wear whatever was relevant to my programme or dance. But when it's just moves, it's more difficult. I will probably wear a tidy skirt and jersey.

I do remember, last dance moves test I took, being freezing cold and shivering on my way round the inside edges, and thinking of Charles I who, I believe, asked for an extra shirt on the morning of his execution as it was cold, and he didn't want people to think he was shivering with nerves. I rather wished I'd had one, too!

NCSkater02

02-09-2007, 05:29 PM

Pattern 5 Forward 3-turn
1) The pattern states 4-6 sets of 3-turn lobes will be skated depdending on the size of the arena.
Is this 4-6 per *side* (which would be a lot) or overall? The USFSA video shows only one side, and the skater is shown doing two sets.
My coach and I practiced this for months doing three sets on each side. Three weeks before the test (which is tomorrow) after much discussion with the other two coach of PB testers, and after seeing the judging sheets, they decided to change it to four sets. Then my coach talked to a judge--yup, at least 4 per side. I've spent the last two weeks relearning the pattern. :roll:

b viswanathan

02-09-2007, 06:44 PM

Sunjoy,

I really benefited from observing a test session first. I made sure to watch one in which an adult was testing pre-bronze; also, I watched at the rink I'd be testing at (to see what it was like).

I practiced the test a few times at the rink I'd be testing at - the size was smaller than many rinks, so it helped me to fit the patterns properly.

The judge I had for pre-bronze was really nice and basically walked me through the test. She wanted me to stop between skating patterns, so I followed her lead (of course!). Also, she took copious notes between elements, then nodded when she wanted me to start. So if you have a judge like her, be sure to follow the visual (or verbal) cues.

If you have a nice judge, feel free to ask for feedback afterward. Mine was happy to chat, and helpful with suggestions. Also look over your comment sheet(s) - you can learn a lot after the fact, and even if you pass, you'll be doing (and improving) these moves all your skating life.

Best of luck!

BV

sunjoy

02-09-2007, 09:17 PM

[/INDENT]
My coach and I practiced this for months doing three sets on each side. Three weeks before the test (which is tomorrow) after much discussion with the other two coach of PB testers, and after seeing the judging sheets, they decided to change it to four sets. Then my coach talked to a judge--yup, at least 4 per side. I've spent the last two weeks relearning the pattern. :roll:
Good luck testing! :)

Now I'm really confused though. One reply here said 3 per side. Another said at least 4 (which, honestly is a lot -- you really have to cram it in). I took a lesson today at the rink I'll be testing at, and the coach there said 3 per side makes 6 total. I'd trust her, in general, *except* while she was familiar with all the other moves which are in standard track, she didn't know the PB 3-turn pattern, and asked another coach about the transitions for it.

Ack! Looks like I'll have to go back to that rink and ask someone who knows. Honestly though, 4-6 per side doesn't sound right to me. Yes you can do four per side. But how in the world can you do six and get any power or extension, or even show edge quality for that matter? Other patterns further down the line like power-3s or double 3s seem to be closer to 3 sets. 8O

Anyway, I'm happy to report that I'm starting to feel quite good about the test. I'm actually *enjoying* my waltz-8s now.

skaternum

02-09-2007, 09:24 PM

yup, at least 4 per side. I've spent the last two weeks relearning the pattern. :roll: They're correct. I think that when they drafted the MITF patterns and info, they started with the base assumption that RIGHT 3 turn is not a LEFT 3 turn, so those are 2 different elements. And when they say 4-6 sets, it was very obvious to them that they meant per element. Because they want to see all elements. It makes sense if you follow that rationale. Problem is, the only people who follow that rationale are the people who wrote it. :lol: It's a little clearer on the Judging Form, which you can access onlie. But most of us have to rely on the experience of having watched people take this test.

One of the reasons for wanting to see 4-6 sets (which seems like a lot for an adult to squeeze in) is to force you to demonstrate control of the turn and the lobes coming into or going out of it.

Good luck on your test!!!! You'll do great.

Debbie S

02-09-2007, 09:52 PM

Honestly though, 4-6 per side doesn't sound right to me. Yes you can do four per side. But how in the world can you do six and get any power or extension, or even show edge quality for that matter? Other patterns further down the line like power-3s or double 3s seem to be closer to 3 sets. 8O Remember that power (and judges' expectations of) increases as you move up in level. As a result, the lobe size increases and it will take you fewer lobes to cover the ice. For the PB 3-turn pattern, you are not even expected to show power - the only focus of the move is edge quality. As skaternum pointed out, you are asked to keep the lobes relatively small in order to demonstrate edges and control. At your level, if your lobes are too big, it's possible that you are on flats at least part of the time. And make sure that when you transition to the BI edge for the crossover push on the second lobe of each set, that you are stepping perpendicular to the axis. If you are stepping diagonally backward, that means your edge is flat and you will likely be marked down.

The 4-6 "sets" everyone is referring to means the 3-turn lobe and then the crossover and step forward lobe. Both lobes make up the set, just like the 3-turn and crossover lobes combine for a set in the power 3-turns move.

jenlyon60

02-10-2007, 06:08 AM

The primary focus on the Forward 3-turn pattern is edge quality.

The primary focus is the main thing that the judges are looking for.

In general, "Edge Quality" is defined as follows:

"Edge quality is initiated through proper body alignment over the skating foot, creating a stable arc that travels uninterrupted until a required transition takes place. Depth of edge refers to the acuteness of the arc and is created by the lean of the body and the angle of the blade when it takes the ice. Good edge quality results in a confident, sure and controlled movement."

Having written all that, it is MOST IMPORTANT to add that the edge quality expected on a Pre-Bronze or Pre-Preliminary test is far different than the edge quality expected on an Adult Gold/Juvenile MIF test.

The edge quality expected at the Adult Pre-Bronze level is roughly as follows: "Substantial Steadiness with a minimum of sub-curves."

A set is the repetition of the basic pattern (i.e. the lobe with the actual turns and the lobe with the back crossover).

The range of 4-6 sets is to allow at least in part for the variation in size of skaters, recognizing that a 5' tall skater with power/flow typical of an APB skater may take 6 sets to cover the ice, whereas a 6' tall skater with the same equivalent power may not need but 4 or 5 sets. Also, a skater may be stronger and more secure on one side of the pattern than the other (although if there is a substantial difference in size of pattern and security between the left and the right sides, that is not good, and can lead to a skater not passing a MIF test).

This may not be as important with full-grown adults, but the range of expected pattern repeats is definitely needed with the kids and the standard tests, where I've seen skaters ranging in size from not much more than 3 1/2 feet tall (5-6 years old) up to 40+ taking the standard Pre-Preliminary MIF test.

Coupled with that "magic number" though is the depth of the lobes or half-circles. If a skater's lobes are long and shallow, then that skater is substantially on flats much of the time. This can be not a good thing.

OTOH, if the skater is doing a lot of short narrow lobes (lobes that may be a nice half circle, but half of a rather small circle), that isn't a good thing either, for this test. Doing a lot of short narrow lobes generally implies that the skater has minimum control of the entry into and exit from the turns.

Bottom line of all this is that you want to be able to demonstrate that you can stroke onto an edge; control that edge going into and out of an FI3, stroke onto another edge; control that edge going into and out of an FO3, then do a controlled back crossover and step forward. Ideally each "3-turn lobe" on a single side should be about the same size, and each back crossover/step-forward lobe should be about the same size.

Hope all this helps.

Isk8NYC

02-10-2007, 07:24 AM

Now I'm really confused though. One reply here said 3 per side. Another said at least 4 (which, honestly is a lot -- you really have to cram it in). I took a lesson today at the rink I'll be testing at, and the coach there said 3 per side makes 6 total. I'd trust her, in general, *except* while she was familiar with all the other moves which are in standard track, she didn't know the PB 3-turn pattern, and asked another coach about the transitions for it.

Ack! Looks like I'll have to go back to that rink and ask someone who knows. Honestly though, 4-6 per side doesn't sound right to me. Yes you can do four per side. But how in the world can you do six and get any power or extension, or even show edge quality for that matter? Other patterns further down the line like power-3s or double 3s seem to be closer to 3 sets. 8O
This is a new pattern for the adult track only, so you won't find many coaches who know a lot about it, unless they have adult students. I've discussed it with other coaches and some didn't even know it existed; others gave me false information about the transitions and steps.

The person who mentioned doing three sets said that she had to rush to relearn the pattern with the required FOUR sets. A petite 5' woman might do six sets, a strapping 6'5" man might only need four. The goal is to demonstrate edges and control, along with ice coverage.

The rulebook, which overrules anything a coach will tell you, calls for FOUR TO SIX sets.

Rob Dean

02-10-2007, 08:03 AM

Argh! 4 *sets* of that is going to be a problem...I know that I'm the first adult my coach will have had for this test. Good thing, I guess, that I didn't sign up for this month's test yesterday.

Rob

NCSkater02

02-10-2007, 05:42 PM

Good luck on your test!!!! You'll do great.

Should've told Gail that--she gave me a retry. The stinking second half of the 3turn pattern really did me in--I had to reskate it, and still didn't pass. In the first try, I put my free foot down on 3 of 4 LI 3turns, on the reskate, only once. BI edges--"problems stroke ok edges slow" Cross overs were "stiff knees" back crossovers were "scratchy" (I can sit far enough back that I feel like I'm gonna fall on my a$$ and curl my toes up in my skates and still scrape my toepicks--I need to try different blades) I rarely ever skate backwards without scraping. There's a comment about the mohawk in the waltz8 that neither my coach nor I can figure out--we can't figure out where the mohawk is, but she checked it, so I guess she passed me on it.

However, I did get "good extensions" on CW stroking, "very good lobes and edges" on FO edges and "very nice lobes edges excellent" on BI edges.

Guess I'll try again in March. Or just wait a while--I'm so sick of edges.

jenlyon60

02-10-2007, 06:42 PM

The step-forward from back to front is technically a mohawk.

Change of direction, change of foot, same edge.

For the Waltz-8, the mohawk would be the step forward from back to front that's 2/3's of the way through each circle.

FWIW, unless the rest of the test was of sufficiently high quality to counter-balance a single touch-down like you said you did on the reskate, I probably would have given a similar outcome.

While the APB test is meant to be an "encouragement" test, a certain level of quality is still expected, and it sounds like you had a bad case of test nerves so that the desired quality didn't happen today.

Remember that both controlled edges and the control required for smoothly executed 3-turns are key to being able better execute the jumps and enter the spins. For example, if a skater doing a 3-turn entry into a salchow can't control the check on that entry 3-turn, the jump is that much harder and it generally turns into a sal-waltz rather than a proper salchow. Same with the toeloop.

sunjoy

02-10-2007, 06:53 PM

The rulebook, which overrules anything a coach will tell you, calls for FOUR TO SIX sets.I agree with you, but the ambiguity is wether it's four to six per side or per arena: Forward 3-turn pattern: On the first
length of the arena skater will perform
RFI to LFO 3-turns followed by a
cross over and a step forward. The
second length of the arena, skater will
perform LFI to RFO 3-turns followed
by a cross over then a step forward.
Four to six sets of 3-turn lobes will be
skated depending on the size of the
arena. End sequence and introductory
steps optional.
Skater may begin with either foot. The language there is ambiguous at best. I'm not disputing you, just pointing out why people might get confused if they just read what's written.

back crossovers were "scratchy" (I can sit far enough back that I feel like I'm gonna fall on my a$$ and curl my toes up in my skates and still scrape my toepicks--I need to try different blades) I rarely ever skate backwards without scraping. ere's a comment about the mohawk in the waltz8 that neither my coach nor I can figure out--we can't figure out where the mohawk is, but she checked it, so I guess she passed me on it.

In contrast to back edges, where you glide towards the front of the blade, the crossover push happens further back. *Think* about pushing with the rear of the blade like you would with fw stroking, rather than about doing back edges?

The mohawk is the back-to-front outside mohawk (step forwards) onto the third step. The latest tip for that (although you passed it), from my coach was to deepen the outside edge curve just before doing it. This seems to 'eat-up' some angular momentum, and makes it *very easy* to do a nice wide curve on the subsequent FO edge.

jenlyon60

02-10-2007, 07:09 PM

If a skater went out there and did only 4 to 6 sets total (i.e. 2 or 3 per side or length of the arena) and the rink is a fairly standard 185 foot to 200 foot length rink, the skater would almost definitely be asked for a repeat performance. Either as a re-skate with the judges specifically asking for more lobes per side, or depending on the quality of the rest of the test, as a retry of the whole test.

I agree with you, but the ambiguity is wether it's four to six per side or per arena: The language there is ambiguous at best. I'm not disputing you, just pointing out why people might get confused if they just read what's written.

In contrast to back edges, where you glide towards the front of the blade, the crossover push happens further back. *Think* about pushing with the rear of the blade like you would with fw stroking, rather than about doing back edges?

The mohawk is the back-to-front outside mohawk (step forwards) onto the third step. The latest tip for that (although you passed it), from my coach was to deepen the outside edge curve just before doing it. This seems to 'eat-up' some angular momentum, and makes it *very easy* to do a nice wide curve on the subsequent FO edge.

Debbie S

02-10-2007, 09:03 PM

I agree with you, but the ambiguity is wether it's four to six per side or per arena: As jenlyon pointed out, it means per side. Whenever a move follows the continuous axis (circumference of the arena), when the rulebook describes what is to be done on each side (i.e start on right foot, then start on left foot on the next side, etc) and gives you a number of "sets" or "lobes", it is talking about each side. This is why you need a coach with experience putting skaters out for MIF tests, or at least willing to seek direction from more experienced coaches. In fact, in most cases, the pattern is diagrammed in the rulebook, so you can clearly see what is to be done on each side.

(I can sit far enough back that I feel like I'm gonna fall on my a$$ and curl my toes up in my skates and still scrape my toepicks--I need to try different blades) Are you sure it's not your skates? The reason I ask that is b/c I formerly skated in boots that were too stiff for my level of skating and had a lot of problems with scratchiness, esp on back crossovers, b/c I just couldn't bend at the ankle and wound up leaning on my toes. My new (appropriately weighted) skates improved that somewhat, but of course I still had to work to "sit back" and overcome my natural tendency to lean forward - now that my skates allow my ankle to bend, that's become easier.

jenlyon60

02-10-2007, 09:43 PM

As jenlyon pointed out, it means per side. Whenever a move follows the continuous axis (circumference of the arena), when the rulebook describes what is to be done on each side (i.e start on right foot, then start on left foot on the next side, etc) and gives you a number of "sets" or "lobes", it is talking about each side. This is why you need a coach with experience putting skaters out for MIF tests, or at least willing to seek direction from more experienced coaches. In fact, in most cases, the pattern is diagrammed in the rulebook, so you can clearly see what is to be done on each side.

Are you sure it's not your skates? The reason I ask that is b/c I formerly skated in boots that were too stiff for my level of skating and had a lot of problems with scratchiness, esp on back crossovers, b/c I just couldn't bend at the ankle and wound up leaning on my toes. My new (appropriately weighted) skates improved that somewhat, but of course I still had to work to "sit back" and overcome my natural tendency to lean forward - now that my skates allow my ankle to bend, that's become easier.

As DebbieS said, if you're not bending your ankles enough, it's hard to get off the toe picks. Another possibility is, if you are bending your ankles, that you may be breaking at the hips or somewhat forwards with the upper body and that will have the result of putting you further forward on your blade towards the toe picks.

Try to think about pressing through the heels. A good exercise is to stand at the barrier, hold on (for safety) and press through the heels, then try to pivot or turn 180 degrees on the last few inches of the blades. You can even practice this off-ice, or at least the pressing through the heels, then shifting the weight forwards towards the ball of the foot/toes.

Morgail

02-10-2007, 09:52 PM

Whew - I'm glad I tested this one when I did in November (when no one had any idea what was going on with that pattern). 8O I only did 2 or 3 sets per side...that was all I could fit in and keep the power of the pattern going.

sunjoy

02-10-2007, 10:37 PM

As jenlyon pointed out, it means per side.

Are you sure it's not your skates? The reason I ask that is b/c I formerly skated in boots that were too stiff for my level of skating and had a lot of problems with scratchiness, esp on back crossovers, b/c I just couldn't bend at the ankle and wound up leaning on my toes. Per side/Per arena: yeah, I was only pointing out where the ambiguity stemmed from in the rules, not that I don't accept the resolution of it as *per side*. :) I did four sets today at a small rink at speed, so yeah, I see how "four-to-six" is quite reasonable.

Skates: Yeah, that's a good point. I skate with the top hooks untied, (actually I lightly tie the long loops of the bow around the top hooks to keep them from dangling) and that lets me get good forward ankle flexion, while still being able to bring the sides-in tight. If I tied all the way up tightly, I'd be on the toe picks going backwards.

Mrs Redboots

02-11-2007, 06:24 AM

Cross overs were "stiff knees" back crossovers were "scratchy" (I can sit far enough back that I feel like I'm gonna fall on my a$$ and curl my toes up in my skates and still scrape my toepicks--I need to try different blades) I rarely ever skate backwards without scraping. You and me both! My coach says it's because my knees are too straight - could this be the same for you? He has demonstrated (several times!) that if he has enough kneebend, even if he is leaning forwards he doesn't go up on his toes, but the second he straightens his knees - scrrrreeeetch!

So I am really focussing on bending my knees, no matter how painful, and it is helping. But I'm still quite convinced my left toe-pick is several millimetres longer than the right.... (well, it feels that way at times!).