Boot/pronation problem

[miraclegro]

As some of you might know, i've had my Klingbeil right boot "tweaked" several times. It is better, but not 100%. I am trying to analyze myself some now, maybe you all can help.

I have customs, also.

The right foot/arch tends to pronate some, and at times, i just don't feel as secure as my left boot...it is better than it was (after 3x sending them back), but i was observing on my street and tennis shoes lately that the outer heel of the right foot is slightly worn more than the inside part. How can i pronate, and yet have that happen on my street shoes? Is this more than just a boot issue? I have orthodics made by the company, but is there something else weird here? Should i see a podiatrist? Any suggestions? Any input is appreciated...

[b viswanathan]

I have experienced the exact same thing!

My last podiatrist told me that where you come down on your foot is reflected in your shoes, and it's called your "strike pattern". Apparently, it is very common for pronators (I am an extreme case, with very flat feet that turn out and pronate terribly - I walk like a penguin, to my eternal mortification) to have a strike pattern that wears down the outer heel. My boots, even with orthotics in them, are evidence of that tendency.

I had orthotics made for my skates by a very good skate maker (they are older Reidell gold stars, which I will soon be replacing). They work well, but not brilliantly - you can still see my pronation pushing against my inner skates. For my next pair, my (new) podiatrist suggests that I have him make orthotics that can fit into skates, rather than having insoles done by a custom boot maker. The pod. claims that their orthos are just more suitable for our feet than any others - and he says he can see me in my skates and tailor the orthos accordingly. (I assume I will have to walk around in my skates in his office.) He has a very large clientele of skaters, which makes me believe he's seen this issue and has dealt with it regularly.

I'd suggest you try to find a podiatrist who knows skaters' feet, if possible. If not, a sports medicine center should be more helpful, as they have to deal with athletes' gear. I think a sympathetic podiatrist will be more able to get the foot issue just right - even the finest skate manufacturers aren't always able to adjust for irregular pronation, I think (or just plain weird feet like mine).

I got the reference to my new podiatrist from my coach. She also gave me the name of an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in skaters (mostly much younger than I am). That's always good to have on hand if there are more chronic issues that arise as your feet mature and change.

Hope this helps, and best of luck.

- BV

[miraclegro]

Thanks for the reply, B,

Problem is, i am one of the few upper level skaters (and i'm only adult silver) who may struggle with this issue in this area because our rink is so new. So, i don't know where you live, but i don't think there are any podiatrists who are really specialising in skaters' feet in this area.

My feet are definitely not penguins feet, i have had more of a "turn in" in my feet/legs than a "turn out". I probably should have had leg braces to correct it some when i was little, and i'll never do a spread eagle because of it.

The spot that is worn on the street shoes, is ever so little, not a deep angle or anything, but enough to show that it is striking on the outer heel twd the back.

What kind of skates do you have? Are you more pleased with the podiatrist's orthodics than the bootmakers? What is the main difference?

Thanks for your time, -M-gro

[b viswanathan]

Hi MGro,

I'm adult silver too (probably closer to adult gold on the freestyle side). I live in Boston and skate in/near my city. What area are you?

The best thing about my turnout is, I have a darned good spread eagle! It's the one thing that reconciles me to my feet. It's very important for me to have good orthos, however, as I love to skate, run, walk, etc.

I have Reidell gold stars. I don't love them, and they're about 6 yrs old, so I will be replacing them very soon. First I plan to get new orthos, as mine are around 5-6 years old and are wearing out.

My podiatrist's orthos are a full-length leather sole glued over the hard plastic arch support. You insert them in sneakers, shoes, etc. They are fabulous, and I can walk/run/workout forever with them. However, you need to fit your shoes with them, as they take up room in your shoes. (I hear you can get them without the leather sole, as well.)

My skates just have a built-up arch in their base (not removable). They were built by Scot Cooke, a very reputable skate supplier up here. I like them, as they improve my boots a great deal. But they're not as perfect at correcting the pronation - Scot himself said that next time I should get the podiatrist-made inserts fitted to my skates. I'm going to buy my next pair of skates from him after I get the new orthos made. He's very trustworthy.

The biggest difference, in my view, is that a podiatrist specializes in feet and orthos. It's an expert's correction you're paying for (and it is $$$); but if you use your feet daily, as we all do, I think it's well worth it. NOTHING is worse than hurty feet, right?! If even my bootmaker agrees that the pod. should make the orthos to correct my feet - well, I'm going to listen to him!

If you can't find someone who specializes in skaters, see if you can find someone who specializes in athletes' feet. Sports medicine clinics exist almost everywhere. Also, many universities have sports doctors in their clinics/hospitals/other medical affiliates. Ask around.

In my case, I truly cannot get by without orthos. I don't bother wearing shoes that can't accommodate them. YMMV, of course. Whatever works.

I hope this helps, and keep me updated as to your results!

best,

B.

[litigator]

our small 14 year old has orthotics in her skates-they were custom made to her foot by podiatrist-I think he's called--anyway hers are made of lightweight graphite (supposedly developed for NASA? says him)-anyway, they don't even weigh an ounce, and he built in some sort of cushioned gel for shock absorbion in the heel and arch...they worked wonders...until now, ha ha , when she has grown....and needs a tweaking-which will undoubtedly cost more-but you only have one set of feets, ankles, etc...anyway we found with her that aside from that the best skate for her re the pronation issue was the graf "hinged" skate...and that seems to be saving the pain and having her move correctly-much less complaint about soreness since we put the orthotics in this Sept too...I too recommend going with a professional who understands biomechanics, jumping (if not skating) and general athlete conditioning...they need to be able to make you something to stand up to the wear and tear without breaking your wallet, and without interfering with your given sport....:)

[aussieskater]

I'd second the specialist orthotic in your boot - my podiatrist (who was recommended to me by my coach's sports doctor when coach commented that I might need them) made them specially for my skates and they don't readily fit in street shoes. Apparently I "twist" as I walk - strike the outside edge on the heel (so supinate on the back half of the foot), then when I get about halfway to the front I roll the foot over so I pronate and leave the ground via the big toe. Not something a general orthotic or arch support can correct - but the specialist orthotic does a wondeful job.

[SkatingOnClouds]

I'd second the specialist orthotic in your boot - my podiatrist (who was recommended to me by my coach's sports doctor when coach commented that I might need them) made them specially for my skates and they don't readily fit in street shoes. Apparently I "twist" as I walk - strike the outside edge on the heel (so supinate on the back half of the foot), then when I get about halfway to the front I roll the foot over so I pronate and leave the ground via the big toe. Not something a general orthotic or arch support can correct - but the specialist orthotic does a wondeful job.

You pretty well summed up what I was going to say. Where your heel strikes is different to where you push off, and I do same as aussieskater.
I am currently using Superfeet Grey in my Grafs, and I felt an immediate difference in ability to control an edge. Don't even have to lace my boots as tightly, because I am more stable on the foot platform.

[russiet]

If your pronation is not too excessive, you can place heel wedges under your inner soles.

The wedges are made to shim up 1/2 of the area under your heel. You glue the wedge to underside of your innersole, the thick side nearest to your medial ankle.

This usually helps, but may not completely solve the problem.

I pronate enough that I use heel wedges in all of my skates & ski boots.

Here's a place you can buy them: http://www.tognar.com/boot_heater_warmer_fitting_dryer_canting_dryers_sk i_snowboard.html

I use a size medium in my 8-1/2 size men's boots.

If you don't like them, you can always rip them out. But if you're satisfied, do a good job of adhering them in place. Use water prrof contact cement, otherwise they tend to migrate to places less useful.

I learned this years ago when I worked in the boot fitting room of a ski shop at the base area of a ski resort.
Jon

[techskater]

http://www.usfigureskating.org/Magazine.asp?id=55&issue=37232

The above is an article in the latest Skating Magazine by Mr Edge (John Harmata) dealing with pronation. He's incredibly knowledgeable about boots, fitting, and blades. I deal with him when it's time for new boots/blades and if he was closer, I'd get all my skate sharpenings from him (he's 65-75 minutes away and there's another only 25 that does a nice job)

[miraclegro]

Well, ya'll, i live in Lynchburg, VA. I'll ask around. I thought that the built in orthodics were what i needed, but i indeed have started to realize that i have really slightly inconsistent pronation or strike pattern. What an art to figure this stuff out.

Thanks,--btw, how much do the orthodics run?

[miraclegro]

Ya'll wanna hear something funny? I had to wear my older skates today because i left my Klingbeils at the rink an hour away. My older skates are Harlicks i had rebuilt for backup.

So, with all the heel/pronation problem, i decided if i could build a skate, it would have the great heel fit the Harlick has with the awesome orthodic from the Klingbeil... or just get my own orthodic...

Any input on that?

[Mrs Redboots]

If you reckon the Harlicks fit you better, it might be worth going with them, with an orthotic you either buy from S P Teri or get your podiatrist to build/prescribe for you.

You can get custom-built Harlicks, can't you? Perhaps they could fit an orthotic for you while they're at it.

[Casey]

You could probably also explain the differences in the heel fit to Klingbeil and get them to work up a better boot for you.