U.S. Nationals Mens LP - SPOILERS!

[Isk8NYC]

This thread may contain spoilers.

[Lark]

How did Evan get that high of a technical mark in the LP (91.13?) with a cheated quad? Plushenko has never gotten that high with 2 quads, has he?

To me, it seems a little like Johnny and Rachel Flatt were thrown under the bus for Evan and Kimmie, as far as what was considered "cheated" and what was not.

I am a little peeved that I think the marks were a little inflated for Evan, though I do like him a lot. It seemed like the judges were rooting a little too much for one skater.

Though Evan obviously deserved the win, he did have a 2 year old program. If Johnny had kept "The Swan" for another Nationals, I think it would have been a lot more fair.

Enough hating on Evan now! LOL :giveup:

I feel so bad for Johnny that he went out on the ice totally defeated. It did not even look like he tried. That was upsetting. Though, now I hope that this set-back will kick Johnny in the pants and help him go and win Worlds! :bow:

I also feel a little dirty after watching Ryan Bradley skate. He is very cute! :halo:

[MQSeries]

Where did Even cheat his quad? It looked clean to me. I haven't been a big fan of Evan in the past, but he was untouchable tonight.

Kind of felt sad for Weir, but he didn't bring it tonight.

I was very happy for Ryan Bradley. His program could use more of a punch for the ending though. I don't think Ryan's programs often do him justice.

I love Jeremy Abbott's skating. Definitely a force in the next few years. Was he wearing black eye liners during this free program? Looked odd.

What in the world did Parker do to his hair? Reminded me of the hairstyle that the Will Ferrel character had in Zoolander. His music and looks this year were not great. It felt like Parker was going for some sort of Euro-trash look.

Horrible nondescript music choice for Sean Rogers. His style and looks on the ice has improved since last year, but it's kind of hard to do much when you're short legged.

What's the deal with the "trash talks" between Weir and Lysaseck this year? I thought they became friends while touring with COI together.

[Lark]

Evan cheated the quad by at least a 1/4 turn, if not more. If, and I mean if, it were not cheated, how the heck do the judges inflate Evans technical score higher than something Plushenko or Joubert could get with 2 and 3 quads???

I agree with you about Parker though. I was a little weirded out, I thought he looked like something from "Rocky Horror"!!!

[jazzpants]

I agree with you about Parker though. I was a little weirded out, I thought he looked like something from "Rocky Horror"!!!I wonder whether Parker may have sneaked out to a few Goth clubs or two??? :P :lol: :halo:

And oh, yeah! It's now OFFICIALLY confirmed that Evan and Tabith Belbin are dating!!! :lol: :P

[MQSeries]

What's the deal with some of the guys wearing foundation out there? I never noticed it before, except maybe with Sahndu, but it looked like both Abbott and Parker had on foundations, because their faces had this weird smooth, sheen to it.

[jazzpants]

What's the deal with some of the guys wearing foundation out there? I never noticed it before, except maybe with Sahndu, but it looked like both Abbott and Parker had on foundations, because their faces had this weird smooth, sheen to it.Who knows... maybe they're in a "Marilyn Manson" mood... or maybe more than likely they sprouted a few stress pimples before the competition and wanted to cover it up for TV and they ended up getting whatever leftover make up the US Nationals appointed makeup artists had for them. (Yes, US Nationals has makeup and hair stylist just in case. My primary coach was Bebe Liang's hairstylist last year. Not this year though. ;) )

I am SOOOO pissed that the basketball game took up a good first 10 minutes of Nationals. I wanted to watch Braden Overett on TV and I was saddened that he didn't make it. (Then again, given that I see that he had a 2.00 deduction in the LP 8O ... he might not want anyone to see that on TV! :P :lol: )

[sue123]

I started watching it at around 11:30 EST, and I don't know how Evan got those scores, but I'm glad he won because personally, I can't stand Johnny Weir, not sure why. Something about him just rubs me the wrong way. He's a great skater, but I dunno, just something about him I can't stand. Although he makes for great entertainment. It's like a car crash, you don't want to watch, but you do anyway.

Maybe Evan got the marks he did for getting +3 on the execution part of the scores, which would bump up the marks? And didn't he do the quad in combination, so that would give him more points, no? I'll be honest, I don't know how many points each move is, but that;s just what I assumed.

I really enjoyed watching Ryan Bradley also, even though I was half asleep by the time he came on. I really liked his reaction when he heard he got a silver medal, then went out on the ice for the victory backflip. Just nice to see someone so excited. I actually thought he was pretty cute, until I saw his teeth. He's got vampire teeth!

[Lark]

I just rewatched on video, and even Kurt Browning calls out the cheated quad. Evan did cheat his quad by half a rotation! I need someone to explain to me how he got Plushenko scores with a cheated quad?

I am not trying to take away from Evan, he deserved to win, but it looks like the judges were going to make sure he won, regardless. I honestly do not think Johnny would have been given the same marks with a clean, 2-quad program.

[icedancer2]

We'll have to wait for the protocols to come out to see how it was scored -- but I agree, Evan was totally untouchable tonight. I don't think he's ever been cleaner and he deserved the win.

I still like Weir better, but I think the pressure was just too much. It will be fun to follow this rivalry over the next few years!

[Serenity]

The commentators said many times throughout the competitions this week that scores are inflated at Nationals, as compared to the international events. That's why Evan's scores were so high compared to how international judges have rated skaters like Plushenko. But the judges at Nationals weren't just inflating Evan's scores--they were inflating all the skaters scores in the various competitions. This is fairly common at Nationals. Remember under the old 6.0 system how the judges used to give many more 6.0's at Nationals compared to international judges at Worlds?

[MQSeries]

I actually thought he [Bradley] was pretty cute, until I saw his teeth. He's got vampire teeth!

Well I wouldn't be starring at his teeth if I was dating him :halo:


It's too bad posters on this board don't seem to want to discuss eligible skating competitions very much :?? .

[LilJen]

I, too, want to see the protocols. The judges never seem to ding Evan for his horribly prerotated triple axel. Yeah, he won fair and square, but his score seemed extremely high. Guess there's a reason the ISU doesn't include scores from national competitions in their collection of highest scores/personal bests. Feeling bad for Johnny--he just had a bad night, but overall I love his skating, his line, his grace, his 3axel (usually so effortless and floaty; last night it was a little clunky, and then popped).

[Lark]

I, too, want to see the protocols. The judges never seem to ding Evan for his horribly prerotated triple axel. ).


Thank you! I was wondering if I was the only one who noticed that his 3Axel was always prerotated! The judges at Nationals had a clear agenda of who they wanted to win. :frus:

[NoVa Sk8r]

The protocols are posted:
http://spokane2007.usfigureskating.org/News/EventNews/012807DetailedResults.aspx

Wow, major inflation going on (which always happens at Nats).

Oh, looking at the pairs protocols: One of the judges gave Castile & Okolski's ginormous split triple twist a *zero* GOE. Huh?

[doubletoe]

Evan cheated the quad by at least a 1/4 turn, if not more. If, and I mean if, it were not cheated, how the heck do the judges inflate Evans technical score higher than something Plushenko or Joubert could get with 2 and 3 quads???

I agree with you about Parker though. I was a little weirded out, I thought he looked like something from "Rocky Horror"!!!

Evan was given +GOE's on every jump. I think he deserved +GOE's on all of them except one (and the quad didn't look more than 1/4 cheated to me, either). It doesn't matter, though; Nationals scores are inflated everywhere, including Russia and Japan, and that's why they never count as official ISU scores.

[COSkateFan]

Actually I really liked Parker's short program and loved the costume. I wasn't crazy about the long program or that costume though. And as for the makeup - there is a makeup room where the skaters go before the event to get their hair and makeup done. Since it's televised and the lights are so bright, they need to have some makeup on or their faces will look bad.

I just watched the men's events again on Tivo and Evan's quad was definitely cheated, but I don't think it was more than 1/4 cheated. Johnny's wasn't cheated but of course he didn't have the combination.

And as for Ryan Bradley, honestly I was shocked that he landed those jumps. They looked totally out of control.

[Lark]

I just watched the men's events again on Tivo and Evan's quad was definitely cheated, but I don't think it was more than 1/4 cheated.

Rachel Flatts 3/3 was less cheated than Evans 4/3, so why did she get dinged and he did not? Johnny two-footed his, so I could see him not getting full credit.

[FitzLizzie]

Clearly, some of the scores were hugely inflated at this competition! It won't be like that at Worlds.

[Lark]

Clearly, some of the scores were hugely inflated at this competition! It won't be like that at Worlds.

Isn't inflating scores technically cheating? Scores are "supposed" to be comparable from one competition to another. Inflating at Nationals does no good but give skaters the wrong ideas about the programs.

When Evan gets to Worlds, and skates the same program the same way, or better, and places 4th to Lambiel, Takahashi and Joubert, inflated scores from a month earlier are not going to help him.

Evans Nationals program at Worlds will get 30 points less, if he is lucky. I hope I am wrong. :giveup:

[Schmeck]

The judges' scores are not supposed to be comparable from one competition to the next at all, they're still getting info about the average starting point, etc.

[MQSeries]

Rachel Flatts 3/3 was less cheated than Evans 4/3, so why did she get dinged and he did not? Johnny two-footed his, so I could see him not getting full credit.

Can you explain why you think Evan's 4toe is cheated? I can't see any cheat in the jump at all. His upper body position on the takeoff and landing of the 4toe was equivalent to skaters like Joubert, Takasahi and Kurt! Kurt said Evan's 4toe was "slightly cheated, essentially clean." Huh? I don't think Kurt was clear in his head when he said Evan quad was slightly cheated but then he corrected himself by declaring the jump "essentially clean".

[techskater]

If you watch his skating foot on the landing in slow motion, it was not completely backwards, but < 1/4 turn from completion (which is "essentially clean" under IJS). One of the vids on You Tube has the ESPN2 slow mo replay and you can see it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvZOecF6rKs&mode=related&search=

Watch to the end of the vid.

[Lark]

I cannot understand how Evan and Kimmie were "essentially clean" but Rachel Flatt and Johnny were not! I give up. :giveup:

[techskater]

Johnny 2 footed the quad (you automatically get a -2 GOE when it is 2 footed - read the rules for grades of execution scoring) so it could not be "essentially clean", especially since it was SO apparent he 2 footed it and even though it was rotated.

I suspect that the technical specialist saw something on the take off Flatt's 3T that caused her to downgrade it. It's not JUST the landing that is considered.

[Lark]

I suspect that the technical specialist saw something on the take off Flatt's 3T that caused her to downgrade it. It's not JUST the landing that is considered.

Then why is Evan not dinged on his prerotated 3axels???

I fear I am coming across as anti-Evan. I like Evan, I think he is a great skater. BUT, I am a big fan of skating in general, not just skaters. And I hate to see any given preferential treatment, even my favorites.

[techskater]

Because the ISU communication on cheated jumps has a SPECIFIC reference to pre-rotated toe loops and none on Axels

[Lark]

Thanks for the educated info, tech.

I think it stinks that there are specific rules for some jumps but not for others! :roll:

[techskater]

That's because the skid on the Axel is considered an acceptable approach (Plushenko used the skid version for a while as did Kulik, Urmanov, Weiss, et al) but the toe-Axel entry on the toe loop is not.