practicing jumps

[sue123]

I'm just wondering how do people practice jumps. See, I can't get hardly any height or distance if I go into it slowly, but if I go faster, I don't have enough time to think about where my arms go, where I pick or whatnot. And I don't want to be practicing bad habits over and over again. I have a tendency to forget about my arms, which is why I like to slow it down to see where my arms go in relation to my legs and body. But then I don't go anywhere if I go slow. Do you just do walkthroughs from a standstill basically and then add more speed into it?

[Debbie S]

Definitely start out slow and then speed will come once you have the correct form. Sometimes, when I'm struggling with my salchow at speed, I do it from a T-position standing still. That helps me focus on holding the BI edge and jumping up and out - I tend to rush that and then my salchow gets spinny. Doing jumps slowly helps you concentrate on getting your arms and legs to work together and on using correct technique (hold edge, pull back and pick - whatever applies). Then, when the jumps become more comfortable and automatic, you can start adding in speed, and you'll get more flow out of the landings.

To get height and distance, remember to jump "out", rather than inward. For example, on your waltz, sal, and toe loop, kick the free leg out as you leave the ice. I'm not very good at this myself :oops: , but I am improving.

[flo]

Also remember that the timing is very different for slow or fast jumps, or speed into them. If the jump is lower, the timinng has to be faster. Find a midpoint that's comfortable for you, and go from there.

[doubletoe]

Practice just the takeoff with no rotation, but at regular speed. That should help with the timing and correct body positions.

[WhisperSung]

My coach has me do extra-perfect singles and one and a half rotations before letting me do the doubles. I have a really big comfort zone of doing jumps at medium speed. . .anything faster scares the crap out of me. I have no problem doing the singles or one and a halfs at full speed, though, so that helps get me ready for the faster speeded double (at some point, anyway)

[doubletoe]

Although my impression was that the question was from someone learning single jumps, not doubles, I am intrigued by the idea of doing 1-1/2 rotation jumps to warm up for doubles. How do you do that, and which jumps do you do it on?

[sue123]

Although my impression was that the question was from someone learning single jumps, not doubles, I am intrigued by the idea of doing 1-1/2 rotation jumps to warm up for doubles. How do you do that, and which jumps do you do it on?

Yea, I am definitly asking about doing single jumps. I am no where near doing double jumps. Only in my dreams, but of course, in my dreams, I can also do perfect triples and a Bielmann (sp?) spin.

[singerskates]

When learning a new jump my coach has me go to the boards and hold on to them as we learn each part of the jump. Then we do the jump in sections at the boards. Then the whole jump at the boards. The I go out and try the jump at the speed I'd be excuting the jump in my program. If that doesn't work, my coach has me just do the part of the jump, that I was doing wrong over again away from the boards. Then I go for it again.

As far as actually using my arms. Well, I told my coach that I wasn't even bringing in my arms for my flip jump and I was getting all the way around. He came back with, "So, when I was competing (he's in his 70's now) I use to do 2 Axels with my arms stretched wide open."

I would get your coach to break each part of the jump down for you. Even learn one part at a time and then piece parts together. Do practice the take offs and landings without rotating bringing in your arms and freeleg during the take off and then landing with them in and then bring them out to check the landing. The rotation can come afterwards.

[NickiT]

For me the best thing is to learn at a speed comfortable for me. As I build my confidence I find the speed into the jumps increases naturally. Trying to skate fast into a jump you're not used to doing at speed is just plain scary!

Nicki

[Hannah]

I've been trying like crazy to get my waltz jump, and it seems like I can only do one right thing at a time. Take-off, OR free leg, OR my arms, OR not falling after I land, but not everything all at once. :frus: If I go too slow, I chicken out, too fast, I end up polishing the ice (15 times this morning).

I make bad habits on the wall, so I try to only use it if I'm completely unable to practice anything without the support. Also, the most embarrassing falls happen to me when I'm holding onto the wall. :roll:

[iceballerina]

Well, my jumps should be great then because I practice them really really slow-except for the waltz jump-that one I feel ok doing from back crossovers. I am only doing 1/2 jumps though :cry:
the 1/2 flip, 1/2 toe loop, 1/2 lutz. I never know what to practice when I get to the ice and now I think that I am trying to do stuff that is too advanced-ie salchow. I am going to focus on my 3-turnsm crossovers and being able to do the mohawk and choctaw while I am actually skating rather than from standing still. At least I can do the mohawk and chocktaw to the right now-it's sloppy, but it's getting better.My teacher did give me some help on the salchow. I know what I am supposed to do now, but it's not happening. I feel like I am having a lot of trouble with the 3-turn on my left foot and entering into a spin on my left foot as well. I will keep practing and hopefully I can get new blades soon. I just hate the feeling like I am not getting anywhere when I am practicing.

[Team Arthritis]

I've been trying like crazy to get my waltz jump, and it seems like I can only do one right thing at a time. Take-off, OR free leg, OR my arms, OR not falling after I land, but not everything all at once. :frus: If I go too slow, I chicken out, too fast, I end up polishing the ice (15 times this morning).

I make bad habits on the wall, so I try to only use it if I'm completely unable to practice anything without the support. Also, the most embarrassing falls happen to me when I'm holding onto the wall. :roll:

Thank you thank you thank you for your post. Coach asked why I was flapping my arms and clucking to myself at 6AM. "I'm berating myself for doing chicken loops". She laughed and said, hey that's my job!
Lyle

[Sessy]

I practice them from standstill, so really slowly, and then eventually I had to change my approach to the jumps to be able to do them at speed. I just copied the approaches people on TV do LOL!

[jskater49]

The waltz jump terrifies me, it's all I can do to get off the ground and my half flips and half lutzes are pretty big - relatively speaking.

It was also really hard for me to compete with a waltz jump because I would need like at least a half hour of warming up and doing other jumps.

Then my coach had me skate, glide forward on two feet and jump up and land on two feet. Which even that scared me, so first we did that with her hanging on to me, but once i started doing the two foot jumps, that is like the magic warm up for my waltz jump..it is part of my warm up routine now, do a couple of two foot waltz jumps, then I'm more than likely to get off the ground the first time I try the waltz.

J

[iceballerina]

I am actually starting to get some decent air and speed from my waltz jump-it is really my favorite now and I feel most confident. I think it's probably because it is something similar to a tour jete which I do in ballet. But the other ones, I am still slow and low, lol. I have really been practicing doing transitions while gliding like the mohawk, choctaw and 3 turn. The mohawk is coming along ok, but the others are really challenging to do while moving at a slow to medium speed, but I figure I really need to get that down and then the jumps will come next. New skates are in near future depending on how things go with the IRS, so that should help with other things too. I hope.

[Sessy]

We always warm up doing waltz jumps in class! Arent you glad youre not in my class! :twisted:

The first one or two waltz jumps I try are always very tiny and I pre-rotate my body entirely so it is just a hopped 3 turn, then they get big (that is, long, I still cant get them very high: I try, but sometimes my foot slips at takeoff for some reason) Its like jumping over a rope or off the side of a swimming pool. You dont think about that you could trip over the rope or slip on the pool side, or else you wont dare to jump over the rope or jump off the swimming pool side. Its the same here, you just jump and then magically land.

And oh yeah it helps to ehm like... Well you take off with your arms normal, spread, but then in the air and at landing, you make this: http://spidersport.com/photos/exercises/home-workout/arms-front-push_galya.jpg except instead of the palms pressing together, they're somewhere under/over the flesh of your arm that is just under your elbow. Like that actress in the old bewitched tv series used to do before nodding her head and making things happen magically. And then you straighten out your arms to fix the landing again.

[Hannah]

Re my waltz jumps: They are ok now... aparently I was pulling myself up with my arms... I'd fling my arms ABOVE my head, and only know this because my coach said so. I had no idea. 8O But now something is wrong with my mohawks that wasn't before... :frus:

[kayskate]

Start out slow. As you get comfortable, you will naturally get faster w/o even thinking about it. Then you can push yourself for speed, distance, height. Those things come after you have the basic technique down.

Kay

[Derek]

Being a newbie to jumping, I am taking things carefully, and pay attention to everything that is said. As a clockwise jumper, I found myself at a disadvantage in group practice (LTS UK) when jumping was 'practised' (only three/waltz jumps). The instructor suggested I would benefit from being able to jump three jumps anticlockwise, so I persisted, and now attempt continuous alternating three jumps, having seen more advanced students using them as a warmup routine. Although very slow and hesitant at the moment, I hope to get more confident, so I can circle the rink, doing the jumps in a serpentine path as I have seen the better students do. Onward and upward, as they say.

[Sessy]

Derek, clockwise skaters at our rink have to learn counterclockwise jumps up to the waltz jump just as well as counterclockwise ones and we spend as much time practicing cw waltz jumps as ccw waltz jumps, so don't worry about that yet. And you know: Stephan Lambiel, 2nd at the olympics, does his axel both clockwise and counterclockwise (there's a youtube video proving it). Now if they start persisting you learn your other jumps ccw instead of cw, you should think about switching rinks, cuz that's not good.

Usually, in our club it's like... As I've said, waltz jumps are practiced both ways, but the other jumps are like this: CW skaters practice their lutz and loop (and axel, if they have one) while everybody else practices flip and salchow and toeloop, and then it's switched the other way around. That way, you have everybody approach their jumps in 1 direction and you can pack more skaters onto the same patch of ice.
And then the few CW skaters we have jump closer to the middle of the patch we have where as the rest jumps more to the edge of it - cw jumpers end up on the edge after their landing ride-out anyway, and can just join in in the general stream again with everybody else.

BTW I can toeloop, half-loop, and spreid-loop cw too, just for fun cuz all my skating friends are clockwise for some reason haha! :lol: It doesn't mess up the rest of your jumps, I'd say it actually helps the balance to develop it both ways. My spreid loop (spreid rittberger/rietberger) is actually better clockwise than my counterclockwise one for some reason. :lol:

[Derek]

Thank you Sessy, that is very interesting to know. Although not technically on the syllabus, I learned waltz jumps in the Learn to Skate UK programme, because they used to be there apparently, but details have changed. Perhaps some rinks still do them. However, I think the instructor at that time, wanted to encourage me, and gave me what she considered a challenge.

The instructors at my local rink all recognise the preference for some skaters to jump CW, and support that. My daughter also jumps CW, she is right handed, whereas I am a leftie. I certainly want to remain as bilateral as possible, having learned the benefits of that through martial arts training, which was always mirrored. When I practice my alternating waltz jumps in public skate, people look at me goggle eyed, presumably they have not seen practice like that before. Unless I am the 3rd oldest person to skate regularly at my rink, perhaps that is it ...

[techskater]

Just remember, Rohene Ward jumps up to 3Lutz in both directions.

Pick a direction and learn to spin in it. Learn as much as you can bi-laterally.

[Sessy]

Just remember, Rohene Ward jumps up to 3Lutz in both directions.

Pick a direction and learn to spin in it. Learn as much as you can bi-laterally.

YEah and Lambiel does either a 2A or 3A both sided.

And actually I've seen people spin in both directions too.

[doubletoe]

YEah and Lambiel does either a 2A or 3A both sided.

And actually I've seen people spin in both directions too.

Really? He always seems to have the most trouble on his 3A!

[kateskate]

YEah and Lambiel does either a 2A or 3A both sided.

And actually I've seen people spin in both directions too.

As far as I know, its just a 2A he can do in both directions

Here is a clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHb2RiofwCg

Pretty cool

[kateskate]

Usually, in our club it's like... As I've said, waltz jumps are practiced both ways, but the other jumps are like this: CW skaters practice their lutz and loop (and axel, if they have one) while everybody else practices flip and salchow and toeloop, and then it's switched the other way around. That way, you have everybody approach their jumps in 1 direction and you can pack more skaters onto the same patch of ice.


It may be me being incredibly stupid but I don't understand how that would work. A loop, lutz or axel for a CW skater doesn't go in the same direction as a toe loop, flip or salchow for a CCW skater. I can see the lutz idea with the bxover prep the other way but for example, I do a salchow and a three jump or an axel or loop from the same prep. Flip and toe loop I do similarly too.

I'm a CW skater and if we tried this method, I'd still be approaching my jumps from another direction to the CCW skaters.

How does it work?

[mikawendy]

Just remember, Rohene Ward jumps up to 3Lutz in both directions.

Pick a direction and learn to spin in it. Learn as much as you can bi-laterally.

I think it's cool that Rohene can do this (and I love watching him skate), but I wonder if spending time on training the jumps in both directions has interfered with his consistency, which has sometimes been a problem for him.

I think it would be cool if I could jump and spin in both directions, but I don't have enough ice time or lesson time or money for extra lesson time to make that practical, and I think the same may be true for a lot of other adult skaters.

I do do a backspin in both directions (I jump/spin CW) because I was able to do a better CCW backspin before I could do one as well going CW. I used the CCW backspin to figure out what I needed to do better on the CW backspin. However, I don't have the time on the ice to be able to do this with all of my spins and jumps.

[techskater]

I think Rohene's inconsistent run throughs is what has hindered his ability to compete well consistently. I know several people in the Minneapolis area who talk out of turn about his lack of full run throughs in practices.

[Mrs Redboots]

And actually I've seen people spin in both directions too.I do. I don't spin at all well, but at least I have a bi-directional spin! But I'm told it won't count as level 2 unless & until I can do at least 4 revolutions in either direction (these days I get 2 or 3 on a good day), and put a backspin in front of it. Oh well, I don't do free skating, so it doesn't really matter, but it's a nice thing to be able to put in an interp programme. Or even solo free dance, if and when I ever do another of those.