Is iskater out of business?

[proam]

I accidentally clicked on iskater site in my Favorites file and I got the “server could not connect…” response, so being curious I tried several times with the same results. I even tried at Google – nothing. Nothing under FSW either.

I’m I out of the loop or is iskter out of business?

[Artistic Skaters]

I just tried to pull it up & can't access it either.

[Josef]

Could it be true???

*hums "ding dong the witch is dead"*

[KBW]

As a disgruntled former FSW member, I couldn't help but to detect a glimmer of a smile crossing my lips as I read those words. Is that awful?

[Kruss]

If it's true, I bet all the folks who paid for their year membership are going to be upset....rightfully so....

Who knows? Maybe they're just changing servers...

[Arsenette]

Hot dang.. now I'm curious :twisted:

[Trillian]

*snicker* :lol:

[jazzpants]

Me too! Me too!!! (FSWorld.com link is also dead too!!!) :P

Cheers,
jazzpants

[LizF]

Let's not get too excited, Iskater could just be having server trouble (Liz goes to the corner, cackling away and rubbing her hands together like some demented old crone, not caring that it's not really grown-up to take glee in another's misfortune):twisted: :lol: :twisted:

[Sassafras]

Inquiring minds want to know........ :twisted: :?:

[fsfan]

I'm waiting with anticipation of some wonderful news..

I'd love to see Iskater BURNNnnnnnnnnnn

just like my little free hat I won last year@!

fsfan:evil:

[Melanie Z]

I had been wondering how FSWorld was doing. Anyone here a member over there and care to report how much activity was going on the boards? Thank goodness for this one, it's a heck of a lot better than the snarling mess FSWorld had become. If it's indeed true that they are dead, it's no suprise but I still hate to see someone go out of business even if the way they treated their members was MORONIC at best.

[liljimeo]

Heehee. Can we get in trouble for being so happy for their demise? Well, I don't care if I do... They made me sooooo mad! What goes around comes around... and I hope they get it something major. You can't treat people like that and expect your business to be taken seriously.

[icyboid]

I'm getting a grin on my face too. :D

Although I do feel for those people from the old FSWorld who gave some of their money to stay in FSWorld. *salutes*

[Badams]

so is it true? has it been confirmed? is iskater no more?

[Spinner]

Originally posted by liljimeo
Heehee. Can we get in trouble for being so happy for their demise?

Nope....and y'all ain't the only ones grinning. :mrgreen: Would be sweet if they self-destructed! Serves them right. :twisted:

[Pupiczech]

If this is true I can finally use my favorite expression!

Hoist by their own petard!

[kimkom]

This FSW member (and I say that with embarrassment for paying a membership :oops: ) can't get in...although I would hope that they would have sent their members an email if they went belly-up....it shouldn't take them long to notify their dozen or so members :twisted:

On the other hand, why would they start keeping us in the loop now! I'll keep checking and let you know if I hear anything!

kimkom

[Greek Chic]

I went to the site as well, and could not connect as well. When I use Internet Explorer it gives me the option as well to see if I want to connect to the similar sites but Iskater was not mentioned.

I only bought a 1 mth membership with them to see what the hype was about their new site. I know that a lot of people are going to be upset with the whole thing, even the ones that purchased a 1 mth membership.

We have to wait and see I guess.

[edited to fix 1 yr to 1 mth]

[Canskater]

Hi ...

In a strange way I am getting vicarious pleasure out of the notion that perhaps greed has led to iskater's downfall .. though I must admit that at one time the place was rather nice.

However, the situation right now is not simply "server down". I did a traceroute on the IP address (204.92.3.170) and it would seem that it isn't even being routed. That would suggest that their ISP (Uunet) may have cut them off ... probably for non-payment.

The reason I say this is because before the subscription service brouhaha, with their more than 15,000 active members, they were probably using rather substantial bandwidth .... possibly one or more full T-1s. These are quite expensive. After announcing the subscription service thing, everybody literally disappeared and voila ... their bandwidth usage increased to nearly nothing. However, they were still paying for their big pipe(s). Figuring that sooner or (not too much) later, the addicted skating fan(atic)s would return, they left the big bandwidth facility in place. Well, as it turns out, nobody returned, they have very few paying customers and very little revenue.

I could be wrong about this hypothesis ......

-- sheilagh

[AxelAnnie22]

Well, I am disappointed in all of you who are happy for someone elses misfortune.

How many of you, with your "he he's" were on line during last year's competitions following Paul's commentary?

Sure, they may have made a poor business decision.......but this was business for them, not a hobby.

All the same, it is simply very small and mean of people to gloat over someone else's misfortune. Not only that, it is Paul Martini who has given so much to this sport.

How 'bout a little re-think here, guys!

[Lark]

I did not want to say anything until someone else did (how weak of me, huh?). But I agree with you Annie.
Laughing at anothers misfortune is just a great way to get Karma to hunt you down and kick your butt.

[Canskater]

With all due respect, I don't think anyone here is being disparaging of Paul Martini personally. He was a great skater, a model athlete, in addition to being an erudite commentator.

You are right ... it was a bad business decision. That having been said, the management of iskater should have learned something from others who have tried to make money from "internet content", most of whom have been preeminently unsuccessful. If the same, or relatively the same, content can be found for free on the net, few if any persons will pay.

Iskater was in a unique position if they had executed it right. They could well have positioned themselves to provide truly unique and "timely" content, if they had, for example, been able to provide live streaming video (and audio) of skating events. Now that's definitely something even I would have gladly paid for. Not to rehash what's been said over and over before, but asking people to pay for their message board (and with no advance warning) was just a little bit much.

Maybe not everyone will agree with me, but that's what I think.

-- sheilagh

[Jenny]

Actually I do have an issue with Paul Martini. Without dredging up everything that's happened in the past year or more, my own view, stated quite clearly on FSWorld months and months ago, was that he abused his celebrity and showed a tremendous disrespect for skating fans, so many of whom have supported his career for decades.

But that's not going to tarnish my treasured remembrances of all he and Barb gave us in their performances over the years, nor is it going to influence my views of Paul as a commentator.

If it's confirmed that iskater is dead and Paul is out of work, I will be among those cheering. But if I were to hear that Paul had been injured or suffered some personal loss, I would feel badly for him and lend my support.

It's not a love him or hate him situation - there's a great deal of grey in between black and white.

Jenny

[Emanfan]

Originally posted by Jenny
If it's confirmed that iskater is dead and Paul is out of work, I will be among those cheering. But if I were to hear that Paul had been injured or suffered some personal loss, I would feel badly for him and lend my support.

Maybe I'm just drawing a blank here, but this paragraph makes no sense to me. One sentence seems inconsistent with the one following.

[Jenny]

That's my point. One doesn't have to have one opinion of a person, it can be more complex. Just because we are mad at someone for one thing, doesn't mean we have to hate them completely.

And thus, I was trying to say that if bad comes to Paul's iskater business, I think it's deserved because of the way the business was conducted and what he did as part of it.

But that's not going to erase 20 years of appreciating his skating, and it has nothing to do with his commentating.

And as I said, it's just my view.

Jenny

[Halo girl]

We don't even know if iskater is down, so why all the fuss?

The way I think of it is even though the way they treated us was dirty, we're not there anymore and are trying to make this our new home. Why just stir up more trouble or complaints from FSW?

As much as I think we should have been advised they were changing membership status, I can't forget that I had 4 good years over at FSW. It wouldn't have been that much had iskater have not taken over the place when Adrian decided not to keep the place. At the time, skatingforums did not exist, and honestly, had iskater not have taken over, many of us wouldn't have had a place to chat anymore.

Maybe some of us need to remember that before we are so happy about iskater going out of business if that is indeed what happened.

It's fine not to like certain ways they treated us, but it's time to get over it and move on.

[Hannahclear]

I don't think its necessary to feel sorry for iskater, should they have suffered a misfortune. Business or not, they were extremely insensitive and deceptive about the whole transition. You get what you give, end of story, and IMO they deserve to be out of business.

[Arsenette]

Originally posted by Halo girl
We don't even know if iskater is down, so why all the fuss?

It's just the thought of "what if" since everything they own can't be accessed right now (since yesterday).. I don't see why we can't since it's typical that no one would know anything - typical considering their history since day-one.

I can't forget that I had 4 good years over at FSW. It wouldn't have been that much had iskater have not taken over the place when Adrian decided not to keep the place.

But that's just it.. Iskater didn't own FSW for 4 years.. it was Adrian! As for when Iskater came online problems started from the get-go! It only got worse and worse and with no warning all of the board went kaput! Many friendships were lost when the ship went down.. and all because of money. ITA with whoever posted that it would not have stung as much if they have forewarned us.. but it wasn't their policy.. we had to find out when we logged on and couldn't get in to things. Worst off.. they destroyed the board that we came to love. I hated the Iskater board.. for the post-Iskater people - they didn't know what we lost! Had it not been for Adrian to have foresight and start this board we would have never found each other again.. You can thank Iskater for that. As for wishing them ill.. er.. hard to say.. they reap what they sow. If it sounds bitter.. so be it.. as for personal attacks against Paul.. no.. that's just childish. As a company with their decisions - they made poor ones without consulting the people they were serving.. that's horrid in any book.

[fsfan]

Well.. it comes down to this.

FSWorld just SHUT down the boards without giving any notice to members, some of whom were members for over 5 years!!

That is complete disrespect.

I think that's the biggest issue with everyone...

And yes, I'm happpy to seem them go belly-up.

fsfan


Edited for language. ~Lee

[liljimeo]

ITA with you Arsenette.

I am still looking for people from the old FSWORLD. A lot came here but then again a lot of people that were very dear to me, that I miss very much, are lost to me among all the different Internet boards and groups. Iskater didn't even give us a chance to exchange e-mail addresses. That upset me soooo much. I never imagined that they could pull the plug like that and I would never get to see some of the people that I'd talked to for over 4 years. Am I correct in that most people were there for 4 years. heehee... Thats kinda cool.
I had a lot of peoples e-mail addys from Fsworld for spans of time.. You know for e-mailing pictures, tape-trading, and stuff... but I never thought to save any of them... It never crossed my mind that FSworld would shutdown.. and shutdown without even sending an e-mail that day. Owell... I guess that is life.

[Gaela]

Well, I think it is natural that some people are going to be pleased if Iskater goes belly-up. I, too, was really shocked when they suddenly made their move. I considered their behaviour rude and arrogant--especially that they just took away a 'life line' for me in that I like to hang out on the boards and chat when I've time on my hands--the boards are a social life to me (ya time to get a life? but in the meanwhile. . .).
On top of that they demanded a YEARLY fee without the option to just check it out for a lower price. If they had offered that at the time, I probably would have taken it and who knows, might have paid the full fee later. Also they would have had to give some notice to earn my respect. . .

I have no feelings about Paul Martini. His commentating is ok, but i find him a bit aggressive. I wasn't watching skating back in his time. However, someone at iskater made some lousy business and marketing decisions.

It would please me that the board went down primarily because it shows that the market won't accept those kinds of prices. When it first happened i thought that this was the future--high user fees for boards. I can't afford to go to competitions so the boards are my way to participate in the FS community. It was wonderful how everyone made this decision together, and I'm impressed at how Sharpie runs FS Universe with donations.

However I somehow doubt that Iskater is gone--those folks have plenty of $$ and they are bound to keep it going until at least the season is in swing, because all sorts of new unsuspecting fans and skaters are likely to be lured into paying the fee. . .

[flippet]

Originally posted by Gaela
However I somehow doubt that Iskater is gone--those folks have plenty of $$


Somehow, I don't think they had nearly the money they wanted everyone to think they did. IIRC, Lise mentioned that she often had trouble just getting paid for her work. It was probably a case of hoping that the appearance of money would attract money.

Hmm...glad that i-skater appears to be bust? Well, not exactly, that would be mean, but it does certainly elicit a snicker or two. What goes around comes around, and they had a date with the karma train, that's for sure.


Choo-choo!!....chuggachuggachuggachugga :twisted: :twisted:

[Halo girl]

Originally posted by Arsenette
It's just the thought of "what if" since everything they own can't be accessed right now (since yesterday).. I don't see why we can't since it's typical that no one would know anything - typical considering their history since day-one.

Curiousity about if it's still around is acceptable. What gets me is that so many people are taking such pleasure it what *could be* iskater's misfortune. We don't know anything for sure at the moment, so it's a little too soon to be jumping the gun. That's what I meant about that comment.

Originally posted by Arsenette
[BBut that's just it.. Iskater didn't own FSW for 4 years.. it was Adrian! As for when Iskater came online problems started from the get-go! It only got worse and worse and with no warning all of the board went kaput! Many friendships were lost when the ship went down.. and all because of money. ITA with whoever posted that it would not have stung as much if they . [/B]

You misunderstood. I said I'd been at FSW for 4 years. Adrian only had it for 3 of those years. Iskater had it for the last one. I do have to give them credit for keeping it open for that time. I'm the first to admit I didn't like a lot of their ways of doing things. I don't even approve of a lot of the ways this site is run. However, I know that I do have to give credit for each site being around so I can chat.

I think the big thing that most people don't understand is that when Adrian ran FSW, it was one person doing it for pleasure. Iskater took over for business. They paid the bills, they had people taking care of the place. In the end, it was their decision to run the site the way they thought was best. As a business person, I know that a company operates to make money, not to just hand stuff out for free. Obviously, iskater felt they needed to do that. I certainly didn't like the changes and I chose not to pay for membership. That's the role I played in iskater's decision. From the amount of people at this site, it's obvious a lot of other people had the same reaction. I'm sure iskater as a company was well aware of the fact that this could happen, yet at a business standpoint, it was obviously was a risk they were willing to take.

However, my point is that maybe it's time to just let it go already. We're here, a lot of us found a new place, so there isn't that much to complain about. There are much more important things to focus on than whether or not a site is down.

As for the people gloating about Paul, again, I can speak as a business person. Yes, he...and the rest of the iskater crew....made a bad business decision. Who's been in business that hasn't? I know I sure have. I sure hope people don't talk about me like this just because I made a mistake.

[Bailey]

Not pleased, just not surprised.

I expected this day to come because no website, especially a site that relies on paying members, can survive when they drive away their fan base (exactly what happened when they went to fee-for-service). Clearly, ISkater underestimated their membership and now they are suffering the consequences of the business/management decisions they have made.

[KBW]

It is kind of sad, isn't it? I mean, they probably thought that everyone would feel , as I'm sure a ton did, that FSW was a lifeline and it could not be cutoff...therefore we would pay ANY price to stay in the mix. Unfortunately for them, it backfired, as it was practically a completely different reaction. Instead of hanging on for dear life and shelling out the cash in desperation to not be "out of it", the fan base took off, miffed and running. It was a big chance to take, and it could have been a huge profit or a huge loss. Obviously the latter resulted.
I kind of smiled at first for obvious reasons, and I sort of still am (OK so I don't have a heart of gold!!! :twisted: Maybe silver? bronze?) but I also recognize that I'd feel terrible if I worked for a business that went *poof*. So I'll just leave it at that.

[shopper]

it is never a pleasant thing to lose a business... i am sure that paul worked very hard and i really did enjoy his play by play of the skating events...
however i do agree the way it was handled was totally disrespectful to the thousands of fans they had...
i don't wish anyone to lose their business and if it is gone, i feel sorry for paul. maybe he got bad advice or maybe things were so bad they needed money immediately...

[ToddFan]

I just hope that if they have "closed," any employees they had aren't also sunk.

[Trillian]

Originally posted by KBW
I kind of smiled at first for obvious reasons, and I sort of still am (OK so I don't have a heart of gold!!! :twisted: Maybe silver? bronze?) but I also recognize that I'd feel terrible if I worked for a business that went *poof*.

Well, I did work for an internet business that "went *poof*" last year, because they were making inept marketing decisions just like iskater did, and I can't say I feel sorry for them. If you make a business choice that's remarkably, gigantically, phenomenally stupid and obviously isn't going to work (which is exactly what iskater did), what do you expect? Hire someone who knows how the market works, or don't whine when your stupid decisions backfire. There was absolutely no question that iskater was going under the minute they made FSW pay-only--if it hasn't happened yet (since we don't know for sure), it will before long. Anyone with half a brain could have seen that it was inevitable. So no, sorry, I don't feel any sympathy for them. If you don't know what you're doing in a certain type of business, hire someone who does.

I have no personal grudge against Paul Martini or anyone else involved with iskater. I don't feel like they "stole" anything from me by taking FSW away and I don't miss it at all. But I have no patience for avoidable stupidity, which was exactly what was involved in this case, so as far as I'm concerned they got exactly what they were asking for.

[pink roses]

I just checked and it's still down. I only paid for a month to check it out and it was nearly dead there. If it's more than a server down, they should have sent out an email. How long has it been down now?

[mikey]

Well-said, Trillian.

[Rachel]

I'm not chortling over it, but I think they've earned some dancing on their grave.

I realize that they took over FSW with the intention of making money. And you know what? They could have. Lots of internet discussion groups are members-only. It costs money to run a site and it seems only fair to me that the people who benefit from the site share the cost.

The thing is, iskater screwed up so royally at every turn that I honestly wonder if there were any actual business people involved. For a business to work, it has to offer something unique. There are skating discussion sites all over the internet and most of them are free. To compete with that, iskater had to offer something we couldn't get elsewhere. They had Paul Martini, but so what? He didn't post or get involved in discussions. He did do live commentary, but we can get live commentary elsewhere and sorry, but Paul's wasn't THAT great and wasn't nearly frequent enough to compensate for the fact that people could get commentary elsewhere for nothing.

Then there was the whole money issue. They didn't do any kind of customer study that I know of to find out exactly who the posters on FSW were. Skating fans are, according to advertisers, a pretty miserly bunch of people for sports fans. A lot of fans are very young and have little or no money. Sixty-five dollars US is nothing to sneeze at, even if you are well off. What were we going to get from iskater that was worth that much? The right to keep our posting names?

I would have paid an annual fee if it had been reasonable and I had gotten something special for it. As it was, I was already a regular on FSU and this board, and I was already in contact with anyone I wanted to be in regular contact with, so I lost nothing by not signing up.

It was a poorly drawn plan, and to execute it the way they did was, as Jenny said, incredibly disrespectful of the fans, who were supposed to turn into customers. If you start a business by setting your prices higher than your customers are willing to pay, you don't offer them something worthwhile for their money, and you infuriate and insult them on top of that, you aren't gambling--you're committing financial suicide.

[Dustin]

I can understand that a board like FSW would take literally hundreds of dollars a month, but if you think about it they were getting a good amount from banner advertisements - even if advertisers didnt pay that much per visitor, FSW had plenty of visitors to compensate.

About FSW trying to make money for iSkater... I had never heard of iSkater before FSW and I am sure FSW turned thousands of people over to visit and even buy something from the iSkater site.

I could see them charging for commentary - people can't get it that easily anywhere else. But for boards? Well, like other people said, there are PLENTY around the internet for people to go to.

[Trillian]

Originally posted by Dustin
About FSW trying to make money for iSkater... I had never heard of iSkater before FSW and I am sure FSW turned thousands of people over to visit and even buy something from the iSkater site.

And that is exactly what made their change so clearly dumb. FSW was by far the best advertising they had for all the pay services iskater offered. When they limited that board to people who were already customers, not only did they lose potential new customers by irritating them, but they also lost their chance of letting people know (on a large scale, anyway) about the special deals they were offering. I don't see how anyone could have come up with the idea and thought it had any prayer of working.

[Tania]

How much does it cost to maintain a server with 14,000 registrants?

Suppose the fee had been $1.50 a month, that = $21,000. Enough? I don't know.

I subscribe to a timesharing board for $15 US a month with about the same numbers FSW had. This allows you access to all boards...some are actually free. Paid for itself the first day, BTW. It is billed as a non-profit board, with volunteer moderators. You pay to place ads but the first one is free.

I can understand paying extra for ISU events, Worlds etc. but to me, the monthly fee was a grab.

:roll:

[Dustin]

Originally posted by Tania
How much does it cost to maintain a server with 14,000 registrants?

Suppose the fee had been $1.50 a month, that = $21,000. Enough? I don't know.

I subscribe to a timesharing board for $15 US a month with about the same numbers FSW had. This allows you access to all boards...some are actually free. Paid for itself the first day, BTW. It is billed as a non-profit board, with volunteer moderators. You pay to place ads but the first one is free.

I can understand paying extra for ISU events, Worlds etc. but to me, the monthly fee was a grab.

:roll:

It would be no where near $21,000 a month. Im guessing $800-1000 at the very most.

[Sassafras]

Does this mean that my i$akter.com pin and lanyard are collectors items now :?: Wonder how much I can get for them on eBay :roll:

[marlyn]

Ummmmmmm, Hi guys. I haven't really been around this summer. I am one of the unfortunate few who paid their membership to iskater BEFORE they shut down FSW. I just wanted to get the live coverage. Now it would seem I have nothing. I was shocked to read that they are off-line for whatever reason. What about the money I paid?? It was a lot of cash!!!!
Now that the season is starting up I went on line to see what was up and lo and behold it was gone. I'm prety upset...no e-mail or nothing. Well, guess I'm out the cash, but am a whole lot wiser now. Can't believe I was conned like that!
So, got room for one more FSW refugee here???

[TashaKat]

Originally posted by marlyn
So, got room for one more FSW refugee here???

OF COURSE :D It's much better here anyway ..... rather like the 'good old days' of FSW before it became F$W

Regarding Iskater's 'misfortune' (if indeed it isn't just a temporary glitch) can it REALLY be called a misfortune if you do something deliberately that brings about your own demise? It wasn't just a bad business decision it was a total lack of respect for everyone that made F$W what it was!

Hmm...glad that i-skater appears to be bust? Well, not exactly, that would be mean, but it does certainly elicit a snicker or two. What goes around comes around, and they had a date with the karma train, that's for sure.

Choo-choo!!....chuggachuggachuggachugga :evil: :twisted:

Hee hee, Flip, I couldn't have said it better myself ;)

L x

[Flatfoote]

Hi Marlyn, welcome aboard!

I have a question. If FSW and iskater is out of business, wouldn't it be screaming of a class action suit by all the members who paid a fee, and are now getting zilch? Of course, if they claimed bankrupcy, you'd get nothing. But, it just seems like they took your money and ran!

[loveskating]

I'm a member, and I wouldn't even think of joining any such "class action" suit; rather, I am grateful for the service they provided to figure skating fans over the years. I have learned so much from reading that board. I'm very sorry if they had to go out of business.

However, I have to agree that some bad business decisions have been made...I think the price was too high for so sudden a change, and I think, for instance, that they could have had different levels of membership, some targeted to adults with money and they could have used their insider status to provide a basis for that. It would have been wise to have more modertors, on a voluntary basis, and clearer rules. They could have limited the number of posts of non-paying members, perhaps?

I also tend to see this as just part of the problems figure skating itself is facing at the moment, and so I deeply hope that all the problems can be solved.

[arena_gal]

I think at the time that FSWorld went user-pay I used the expression "circling the drain". It was just a matter of time and they didn't heed or didn't want to listen to the failures of other sites that went user-pay.

I'm wondering if anyone in the Toronto area feels like calling the iSkater offices to see if anyone is answering the phone.

A search between internic and the phone directories gives me these listings:

Iskater.Com Inc Phone: (416)345-1515
111 Queen St E, Toronto, ON M5C 1S2

Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Clark Gao cgao@iskater.com
672 Dupont St., #505
Toronto, Ontario M6G 1Z6
Canada
416-345-1515

Domain Name: ISKATER.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
IANTORNO, JOSEPH (JI1830) jiantorno@ISKATER.COM
IANTORNO,JOSEPH
54 Halsey Avenue
TORONTO
ONTARIO
M4B 1A5
CA
416 345-1515 416 345-1542

Joseph Iantorno was listed as the chief operating officer on the iSkater web page, he's also on the Italian chamber of commerce. His phone book listing:
IANTORNO, J
54 HALSEY AVE
EAST YORK, ON
M4B 1A5
(416) 701-1046


There was a also a Tony Iantorno listed as chief executive officer with iSkater. He's had a history of internet crash and burnouts, noteably Itemus. I assume he's related to Joe. Do internet search on "Itemus" to see how to blow $125 million in venture capital. iSkater was small potatoes.

I feel sorry for Paul Martini actually. He's the identifiable one in this mess, but a lot of the blame rests with who he hooked up with.

(web sites used for searching: www.google.com, www.sympatico.ca, www.internic.ca and http://webdev.archive.org/ )

[marlyn]

Originally posted by Flatfoote
But, it just seems like they took your money and ran!

That is precisely how I feel right about now!!

[pilgrimsoul]

Here are my thoughts on these developments:

1. Iskater has become a cautionary tale on what happens to a business when greed and incompetence are allowed to rule, and justifiably so; and

2. THANK YOU, ADRIAN for having the generosity and foresight to provide the fans with an even better board to go to, and for devoting so much of your time and talents to sharing this gift with us all.

Adrian, if the need for user contributions ever arises, just say the word and I would gladly help out. Thanks again. :D

[AxelAnnie22]

Oh so many people with such a lack of compassion.

If there are any of you who NEVER, even once, read and enjoyed Iskater's commentary, interviews, news or commentary, then I am surprised.

Don't you realize that this is someone's BUSINESS that went under (if that is what happened). People lost money, they lost jobs, and they lost dreams. I am so disappointed that people would gloat at the misfortune of another person.

What they were providing last year with their event coverage was not a discussion board. It cost money, and a good deal of it. I am sure, that in someone's mind they thought they should try to cover their expenses, maybe even make a living - GASP!

WHAT they did (charging) was smart. If they were going to continue to expand, and be on the forefront of webcasting events they had to make money.

HOW they implemented their business change was really, really, bad. IMH (and business) Opinion, their problem was "now you see us, and now you don't." They failed to promote and explain their plan, lay a foundation, give notice of the pricing change, and allow a forum for discussion (no pun intended). BTW Discussion is useful - not because we should have had a vote, but it would have given us an opportunity to voice our opinions WITHIN FSW

However, to gloat over another's misfortune is really small and mean. And, it usually comes right back at you.....so it is also dumb.

[AxelAnnie22]

Originally posted by pilgrimsoul
Here are my thoughts on these developments:

Adrian, if the need for user contributions ever arises, just say the word and I would gladly help out. Thanks again. :D

Why wait for Adrian to have to ask. Simply send a check. I am quite sure any contfibution would be well used and greatly appreciated.:P

[A.H.Black]

Adrian has addressed this subject several times in the last few months. Check out his replies on the Forum matters board.

Most of us would be willing to help, but so far, Adrian has posted that such help is not indicated.

[jp1andOnly]

you can feel bad that people lost their jobs..but at the same time be glad the business is gone. ISkater made a bad business decision and they paid for it. I'm glad they got a taste of their own medicine. I did enjoy reading a bit of commentary by Paul, but I usually only went to check out FSW. I can live without iskater, but I'm glad this message board exists so I have a place to go :)

[Sassafras]

A poster on FSU said they'de just received a return call from Paul Martini. The site should be back up shortly - it was a problem with World Com.

[adrianchew]

As far as jobs go - almost any person with half a brain would put two and two together to figure out if their jobs were in danger. If you work for a company, and have no idea how they're doing, that's a recipe for disaster... most employees can see the writing on the wall in advance.

I've already seen 3 fallouts myself in 7 years of working... its not hard to tell and plan ahead. The corporate world is seldom kind or caring, businesses are usually cold entities operated to profit the stakeholders, and employees are nothing more than pawns.

For those who lose money, that is often times out of their own greed, a get rich quick mentality, and generally bad business/monetary/investment decisions. In other words, don't expect to go into something like this without the possibility of getting burned in the process... and don't blame others when you make bad decisions and lose all your money.

There is in my mind only one truly viable Internet-only company in existence today - that would be Ebay. Its a cash making machine, and as long as they don't get overly ambitious, the company will be viable for the very long term. Everyone should have learned from the Netscape saga a long time ago.

[Trillian]

Originally posted by AxelAnnie22
If there are any of you who NEVER, even once, read and enjoyed Iskater's commentary, interviews, news or commentary, then I am surprised.

Hi. That would be me. FSW was absolutely the only feature of iskater.com I ever used. I followed links to articles there once or twice, discovered that they were poorly written and nearly always contained information I could find in more well-written form elsewhere, and never bothered looking at their articles again. The live commentary didn't interest me any more than, say, talk radio interests me--I'm a visual person, so it wasn't my style. So you've found at least one person who never "enjoyed" any of iskater's other features--not that I blamed those who did.

WHAT they did (charging) was smart. If they were going to continue to expand, and be on the forefront of webcasting events they had to make money.

Charging for FSW was NOT smart. It was stupid, and if they haven't gone under yet, they will eventually. FSW wasn't just a service they offered; it was also by far their most effective method of advertising their pay services and drawing in users to the parts of the site that actually might be worth paying for. Furthermore, message boards are available everywhere for free, and there were already several free and well-established skating forums in particular, so it wouldn't have made any sense to expect people to start paying for something they could find easily elsewhere.

They should have learned the lesson of numerous failed internet businesses: the only thing that might possibly make you any money on the internet (and it's only a possibility, not a sure thing) is offering something high quality and completely unique. If someone can get a better and/or similar and/or cheaper version elsewhere, they're just going to go elsewhere. If the "brains" behind iskater had analyzed the situation with any degree of competence, they would have seen that the way to succeed would have been to keep FSW as it was (for the extremely valuable free advertising it offered) and figure out a way to turn their other features--articles, interviews, commentary, etc.--into a service that would make them the money they were interested in earning.

And, I might add, if a 21-year-old girl who's never taken a business or marketing class can see that so clearly, it's pretty remarkable that no one at iskater thought about it in those terms.

So as to the question of "should we feel sympathy for them?", I'm still taking the "no" position. I don't feel sorry for anyone who does something completely stupid and completely avoidable. If they didn't want their business to fail, they shouldn't have taken a step for which failure was absolutely the only possible outcome.

[Jimmy Hoffa]

I won't stop anyone from feeling sorry for Iskater but don't try to wax moral at me because I don't. If I want a sermon, I'll go to church.

[Jenny]

The mistake was not realizing that FSW was iskater's major asset.

There was plenty of opportunity to make money. Several thousand members must have seemed like the obvious choice, but it was the one choice that was strategically wrong. You'd think after 18 months or more of operation they would have figured that out.

Their second most important asset is Paul Martini, but they failed to use that asset appropriately either.

Jenny

[jillegal]

Turns out they haven't gone under after all - all this joy (or angst) for nothing. No doubt the topic will be revisited in the near future though ;)

[AxelAnnie22]

Originally posted by Sassafras
A poster on FSU said they'de just received a return call from Paul Martini. The site should be back up shortly - it was a problem with World Com. WHOOPPEEEEEEE!

[AxelAnnie22]

[i]

For those who lose money, that is often times out of their own greed, a get rich quick mentality, and generally bad business/monetary/investment decisions.
[/B] Oh Adrian, I love you dearly, but..........

My husband and I have had several businesses which we have run and sold successfully. Two years ago, we had a business go under. We had a contract with a HUGE insurance company. We spent $60.000 conforming and updating our system to meet their specifications. Guess who didn't pay in accordance with the terms of the contract. Not us.

We fought like mad and used our personal assets to keep our employees employed, and our heads above water. We lost that battle. So, be a little less quick to judge ALL BUSINESSES as greedy and non caring.

Also, I request that this thread be closed. I don't think anyone is really "learning" anything, or at this point, adding anything.
:cry:

[adrianchew]

Originally posted by AxelAnnie22

We fought like mad and used our personal assets to keep our employees employed, and our heads above water. We lost that battle. So, be a little less quick to judge ALL BUSINESSES as greedy and non caring.

Also, I request that this thread be closed. I don't think anyone is really "learning" anything, or at this point, adding anything.
:cry:

But you just taught us something here. Luckily there are some small businesses that do care, but often times, the rich only get richer, and everyone else just gets "used" in the process. :(

Closed as requested - I'm sure folks who needed to vent some got a chance and have done so already.